ISIS in T&T?

[src1983]

Is it against the law of T&T to work outside the country?
Is it against the law to travel to Iraq and Syria? (Gaza, Palestine and Israel for that matter).
Is it against the law for someone to take up a job in the war, be it as a cook or medic or fight in frontline or whatever else as supporting roles that may be necessary?

Are we free in T&T to do as we please / wish / desire?

Yes you are free to work outside T&T, but you must have work papers
Yes you are free to travel to Iraq and syria, yes but your passport must be stamped (taking and illegal boat in does not count)
Yes you are free to go fight a War, You are a citizen of Trinidad and Tobago, we are not at war

But fighting with ISIS is not fighting a war, Fighting with ISIS is Terrorism, aiding and helping commit mass genocide and rape is the act of a terrorist not an expat

Your comment is so F^*&King idiotic....jeez I think I just got dumber reading it

[AdamB]

Is it against the law of T&T to work outside the country?

No

Is it against the law to travel to Iraq and Syria? (Gaza, Palestine and Israel for that matter).

No

Is it against the law for someone to take up a job in the war, be it as a cook or medic or fight in frontline or whatever else as supporting roles that may be necessary?

No

Are we free in T&T to do as we please / wish / desire?

Yes

Now the questions are,

Can it be deemed suspicious behaviour to leave one's home to travel to a war torn region to work?

At the very least, do you think that it is reasonable for this person's intentions to be questioned to see if there is are any ulterior motives?

Can someone be convicted in our court of law for suspicious behaviour, intentions and ulterior motives without or before action (or even after)? Boy, our whole parliament goh be in jail...

This reminds me of the Tom Cruise movie, Minority Report, where persons were arrested before they committed crimes.

[Slartibartfast]

Can someone be convicted in our court of law for suspicious behaviour, intentions and ulterior motives without or before action (or even after)? Boy, our whole parliament goh be in jail...

Yes. Look up conspiracy to commit crimes and yes they should all be in prison. Good point!

[The Paleontologist]

http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-the-scholar/crimes-and-penalties/apostasy/172501-should-an-apostate-be-put-to-death.html

Apostasy can be classed as major and minor. Major apostasy is when someone leaves Islam and also tarnishes its name or attacks Muslims. Minor apostasy is when someone just leaves Islam.

So Sharia law ensures a child cannot even know his/her mother

IPOH, Malaysia (AP) — It was the last round of a recurring argument: M. Indira Gandhi's husband wanted her to convert to Islam. A committed Hindu, she refused. He threatened divorce. Both started shouting. Neighbors came looking. Suddenly, he snatched their 11-month-old daughter from the arms of an older child, tucked her under one arm and sped off on his motorbike.

That was more than five years ago. Gandhi hasn't seen her child since, even though a Malaysian civil court awarded her custody. Her husband — who converted to Islam shortly before taking his daughter away — won custody in an Islamic court. Because Gandhi is not a Muslim, she was not even called to appear. Police have been unwilling to enforce the civil court's decision.

http://news.yahoo.com/malaysias-sharia- ... 05866.html

Sharia treats with Muslims and non Muslims differently but yet you calling for it as a solution to crime.

What they did is not a true reflection on the teachings of Islam. She should have been allowed a fair trial to determine custody.
No matter what religion a person is, he should have a fair trial. Non Muslims living in Muslim countries should be treated the same according to sharia. What some people do does not change the teachings of islam

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

What they did is not a true reflection on the teachings of Islam.

But it was done by Muslims, this seems to be a reoccurring theme almost daily around the world.
Are you saying that many Muslims are not following Islam properly but they are claiming it is Islam??

[bluesclues]

my questions have not been answered. I am not asking for a biased judgment on Islam or the actions of others out side of our country.

By analogy, we may have to open a thread for the people of Laventille, etc who murder each other daily.

(rasta city vs guess who)

US soldiers have been found guilty of murder in Iraq, are we to say that that Trinidadians who joined them (hypothetically) should be treated the same as those who join ISIS?

wouldnt isis treat them the same if they got their hands on them?

Abu Bakr and clan held a coup and legally benefitted financially from all the loss of life, property, etc. That's our legacy in T&T...

a legacy you say? from which since this country has been tumbling downward and an exponential rise in corruption, kidnapping and crime. thank you abu bakr for saving tnt. country worse today under present government and its associated corruption.

I am not supporting any "terrorists", just asking you to think outside the box in terms of citizens right to freedom and personal action. Are we a police state?

Put aside your religion criticism hats for a few moments...

you not supporting but you sympathizing and expecting sympathy from free people you claim to have authority to judge and kill and also have voiced the willingness and intention to. we dont have to speak in religious terms. regarding personal freedom which freedom are you referring to? the freedom that is espoused in the laws of democracy? or the freedom espoused in sharia law under caliphate? i think you need to ask all those questions and be judged by your own law system. if you hate democracy so much then you shouldnt find any means of justification through it. ask all your questions as though you live in a country controlled by sharia law and were planning to jump ship to aid the enemy. what would they do?

the fact is, there is nothing, literally nothing that islam/sharia provides for free society that democracy doesnt. and democracy has long moved on from primitive practices such as the slave trade and many more atrocious practices condoned today by muslims. you all are becoming a relic, like the amazon tribes and cannibals in the jungle, old practices they refuse to give up and evolve with humanity. leaves them there dying of the common cold because they want to live like primitive animals and if you go to help them after you help them and take the thorn out their toe they want to eat you still. so any question you ask, answer it based on the rules of your law first and then you'll figure out if your outcry deserves any sympathy.

besides, im sure you can find a way to go there and fight. it's just going to be a one way trip. go to a land where there espouses the laws you believe in and stay there if you believe it better. with clear eyes and muslims and their laws being at the heart of every dispute on the earth and their muslim countries only setting the example of wartorn murderous lifestyle in their countries.. WE DONT WANT IT!

the example set has been poor and unacceptable. there is no peace except in the words spoken. if i want that kind of peace id write it down on a piece of paper. but if i want real peace i will look for a democratic country to settle in because within all the sects of Christianity that coexist together, there is no war, neither would Christians threaten violence for burning the bible etc.

whether you want to try and split the 2 or not, democracy is a creation of Christian values for life and freedom under God. democracy itself represents the higher power of Jesus' word over Moses laws(moselem) which completes the law and how it is to be properly administered. the result is a much more civilized and peaceful existence, even among sects, and even affording the same rights to all men because they were also created by the same God. but because your law is incomplete you still practice ancient barbarism.

[Slartibartfast]

What they did is not a true reflection on the teachings of Islam.

But it was done by Muslims, this seems to be a reoccurring theme almost daily around the world.
Are you saying that many Muslims are not following Islam properly but they are claiming it is Islam??

The problem with the teachings of Islam (and most religions) is as follows. An ancient obscurely written text is cited as a "moral absolute" and therefore used as justification for certain actions. Do you see the contradiction there? So those that want to commit inhumane acts in the name of their God can do so with the same authority as those that condemn them.

Always the same tired excuse. What makes the peaceful Islam you practice more Islamic than the Islam that they practice.

And I agree with a good bit of what bluesclues said. He lost me in that last paragraph but the rest was pretty good. Islam is just a few hundred years behind Christianity. Christianity also has justified violence in their past. A lot of it was allegedly done by God and recorded in the bible.

It's about time we rule ourselves and begin taking responsibility for our own actions.

[Dizzy28]

What they did is not a true reflection on the teachings of Islam.

But it was done by Muslims, this seems to be a reoccurring theme almost daily around the world.
Are you saying that many Muslims are not following Islam properly but they are claiming it is Islam??

Basically at 40% of the population non Muslims in Malaysia have very little by way of equity in society. I shudder to think what the situation really is like for the 5% of Iraq (Christians, Yazidis etc. who are aggressively being targeted by ISIS)

[AdamB]

Payback time, Moses' law as someone said...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Payback time

for whom?

[The Paleontologist]

There are more than 1 billion Muslims in the world. Surely some of them will have misinterpreted views

[Slartibartfast]

There are more than 1 billion Muslims in the world. Surely some of them will have misinterpreted views

Yes. But my question is how do you know who has the right interpretation? I know the violent muslims are sure in that their interpretation is accurate. Am I then to believe that peaceful Islam is the misinterpretation?

[16 cycles]

^ the some seem to give the majority a bad rep...

pretty unfortunate....

[bluesclues]

Payback time, Moses' law as someone said...

which law is that? do so doh like so? that one isnt moses. is a next fella.

[AdamB]

Payback time

for whom?

Evil, corruption, etc has spread on sea and land because of what the hands of men have earned...

[Slartibartfast]

Payback time

for whom?

Evil, corruption, etc has spread on sea and land because of what the hands of men have earned...

Sooooo... it's been payback time since our existence then?

[wing]

Adamb is a fool. Isis is a political organization which uses our religion to brainwash the simpletons to do their bidding. It is the same with Hamas, Boko haram, al shabaab,Hezbollah,Taliban etc. All of these ppl are fighting jihad for territory and political power. I want adamb especially to show me just one example of anyone from these groups who actually striving to share the beauty of Islam through words, deeds, charity, community work......instead of blowing up people or cutting off heads.

[bluesclues]

Adamb is a fool. Isis is a political organization which uses our religion to brainwash the simpletons to do their bidding. It is the same with Hamas, Boko haram, al shabaab,Hezbollah,Taliban etc. All of these ppl are fighting jihad for territory and political power.

u hitting that nail like you born with a hammer in your hand. well done. and i really mean that. few can cut thru the bullgunya to see what it is really about.

[wing]

Those people who rushing to Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan etc. to fight a war for political power in the process killing innocent Muslims and non Muslims are guilty of Shirk(placing a political leader above Allah) and Biddah ( introducing innovation ie using Islam to commit murder and robbery against other Muslims. These persons are not Muslims and should not be mentioned in the same breath as our Islam. Real Muslims use the force of their conviction and their example to spread the message and invite all to Islam. Only Allah can judge a person on his beliefs, and this is done on judgment day. Adamb should really think about the things that he's spewing......it's not constructive.

[bluesclues]

this look familiar at all adamb? i figured it might be in some of the literature you regularly consume.

The good deed and the evil deed are not alike. Repel the evil deed with one which is better, then lo! he, between whom and thee there was enmity (will become) as though he was a bosom friend. (34) But none is granted it save those who are steadfast, and none is granted it save the owner of great happiness. (35)And if a whisper from the devil reach thee (O Muhammad) then seek refuge in Allah. Lo! He is the Hearer, the Knower. (36)

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

There are more than 1 billion Muslims in the world. Surely some of them will have misinterpreted views

of course! that happens in every religion and is perfectly understandable, however this is not the case here where just a few people in a small group or isolated incidents.

Over the past decade and a half the world has come to associate the word "terrorist" with Muslims. Why?

The words terrorist and Islamist are used almost interchangeably and this goes far beyond any western news bias or propaganda. In fact words such as "Islamist", "radical Islam", "extremists", "jihad", "jihadists", "suicide bomber", "terror attacks", "beheading" have become common place in the entire world and synonymous with any attack carried out in the name of Islam.
Is it that the 1 billion real Muslims are allowing this or cannot control their very few radical brothers?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Adamb should really think about the things that he's spewing......it's not constructive.

is this a case of conservative Islam disagreeing with radical Islam?

[pugboy]

Sure right, everytime there is a successful terrorist attack, the culprits come out and praise themselves in the name of Allah, when last you hear Jesus or a Hindu god being thanked as inspiration for some crime against humanity ?

The silence by the rest of the Muslim world is indeed deafening but i think the world has come to accept that other muslims wont do or say anything for one reason or another....which clearly does not help the situation.

Over the past decade and a half the world has come to associate the word "terrorist" with Muslims. Why?

Is it that the 1 billion real Muslims are allowing this or cannot control their very few radical brothers?

[shogun]

Adamb should really think about the things that he's spewing......it's not constructive.

is this a case of conservative Islam disagreeing with radical Islam?

Definitely a more measured interpretation whether conservative or not. Accepting anything over the alternative.

[AdamB]

Who radical?

[Habit7]

[zoom rader]

^^^^ Christians are paying for their deeds for the millions of people that they have killed in the pass. They wiped out and enslaved the new world.
Don't forget it's Christians that start and cause the most wars and blood shed.

[Slartibartfast]

You have any data to back that up ZR. Remember,

Wars started by a Christian or inhumane acts done by a Christian =/= Wars started on inhumane acts done in the name of Christianity.

A lot of inhumane acts done during the slave trade (like rape and murder) were done because of the individual doing it. Everything ISIS does is in the name of Islam. And just because a minority are violent does not mean that their interpretation is wrong. For example, did you know that most people in the world are NOT Muslim... and yet Muslims believe that their religion is the right one... hmmmmm...

[Habit7]

^^^^ Christians are paying for their deeds for the millions of people that they have killed in the pass. They wiped out and enslaved the new world.
Don't forget it's Christians that start and cause the most wars and blood shed.

Firstly no one deserves for their human rights to be violated, especially in retaliation.

I am glad to see Slartibartfast rightfully correct you and differentiate between a person professing to be Christian committing an act and a person acting consistent with Christian instruction. It was mostly Africans selling their slaves to Europeans to work in their estates. It was mostly Christians appalled by the brutality of this slave trade that started the abolitionist movement which eventually ended slavery.

Also you could be more wrong about the war thing.

In their recently published book, "Encyclopedia of Wars," authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod document the history of recorded warfare, and from their list of 1763 wars only 123 have been classified to involve a religious cause, accounting for less than 7 percent of all wars and less than 2 percent of all people killed in warfare. While, for example, it is estimated that approximately one to three million people were tragically killed in the Crusades, and perhaps 3,000 in the Inquisition, nearly 35 million soldiers and civilians died in the senseless, and secular, slaughter of World War 1 alone.

History simply does not support the hypothesis that religion is the major cause of conflict. The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-ala ... 00766.html

[/quote]

[shogun]

^^^^ Christians are paying for their deeds for the millions of people that they have killed in the pass. They wiped out and enslaved the new world.
Don't forget it's Christians that start and cause the most wars and blood shed.

Well yes...