Did Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) Warn About ISIS?

[MD Marketers]

http://www.iqrasense.com/hadith/authenticating-hadith-sayings-of-the-prophet-an-overview.html

Here is the article in case you don't want all the ads that go with the link:

Sunnah and it’s roles

The Sunnah (traditions) of the Prophet SAWS, along with Quran, is the cornerstone of the teachings of Islam. Among majority of the scholars, the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad SAWS is defined as the sayings (Hadith Qauli or the verbal order), actions (Hadith Fa’lee or the action) or approval of actions (Hadith Taqreeri) that are related to the beliefs as well as rulings of the Islamic faith – both in terms of rituals as well as daily life actions. The Sunnah has one of three roles when it comes to a ruling.

It emphasizes what is mentioned in Quran. e.g., the emphasis in many aHadith (Plural of Hadith) on the importance of prayers similar to what is mentioned in the Quran;
It explains what has come as a ruling in Quran. e.g., the number of daily prayers and the number of rakaa’h in each prayer.
It initiates a ruling that is binding upon the followers of the religion of Islam. e.g., forbidding eating the flesh of donkey.
Throughout the history, people attacking the validity of Islam as well as some who believed in Islam have questioned the authenticity of the traditions and sayings of the Prophet SAWS. Some of the points that they raise are:

Accuracy of the text being narrated
Forgetfulness of the narrators
Deceit on part of the narrators
Establishing the Science of Sunnah and Hadeeth

To answer the questions raised above, one would need to visit the history of the development of this science. Islamic scholars have been concerned and involved with the authenticity of Hadith from the days of the Prophet SAWS. The Prophet in the beginning of the days of revelation would ask the companions not to write down his sayings. Some of the reasons for this were the following:

The companions would confuse the verses of the Quran with his sayings as they had yet to memorize the Quran
They might leave the teachings of Quran and emphasize more on the Sunnah
The original list of companions was small and the Arabs were known to have a very sharp memory
Later, as time passed, the Prophet SAWS allowed the companions to write down his sayings on different media such as skins, rocks, etc. The Prophet SAWS personally vouched for the truthfulness of his companions and as one of the companions himself described:

We were a nation where no one would lie to each other. But when the Prophet SAWS passed away and lying became more prevalent, we would ask the narrator to name the source from where he was quoting the Hadith

The companions of the Prophet SAWS would be very careful in narrating a Hadith and many would refuse to do so for many reasons including:

The fear of accidentally falsifying the Hadith – Abu Bakar once said: “Which sky will cover me and which earth will refuge me if I say something in this religion which is not true” (i.e. what if I make a mistake and people start following it)
Fear of forgetting the text – When one of the companions was asked to narrate a hadeeth, he said: “We grew and we forgot and the Hadith of the Prophet SAWS is difficult” (i.e. its memorization)
Science of the narrators (Ilm Alrijaal)

As the companions started to pass away, the era of Tabi’een (generation after companions that never saw the Prophet SAWS) began. During this time, the scholars became very careful in narrating the traditions and the scholars would emphasize on naming the source before accepting any narration of hadeeth. Many scholars of this generation were known to travel many miles and take on arduous journeys to even collect one Hadith from the companions of the Prophet SAWS. When a person would narrate a Hadith, some of the steps that scholars would take to establish the authenticity of the Hadith would include the following.

They would review the history of the narrator to ensure that he did not have a history of lying.
Some of the scholars would ask the narrator of their source and then would travel themselves to confirm the source and thus the authenticity of the Hadith.
They would evaluate the text against the verses of the Quran as well as other Ahadith to ensure that it did not violate any other established text.
The first two actions came to be known as Ilm Alrijaal or the science of the narrators. During this time, they started documenting both the Ahadith as well as the science of narrators. The documenting of Hadith would consist of documenting the actual text along with the whole chain of narrations. A sample Hadith would look something like:

“On the authority of person X, who heard from the companion Y that the Prophet SAWS said ‘text goes here’ “

Merely documenting the text would not guarantee the authenticity of the Hadith. Rather, it would document what the narrator collected and would leave the judgment to the reader. The readers would present this to established scholars of the time who would comment on the authenticity as they would have already spent a lifetime in this effort and would be fully knowledgeable of the science of narrators. Any text without the narrations would not be looked at and simply discarded when it came to passing a ruling.

The science of narrators consisted of documenting the names of the narrators and their attributes. An example would look like:

“Person X: Dependable, truthful as described by person A, person B, person C

Person Y: Falsifier, liar known for his deceit as described by his actions and W, K, L”

While Islam forbids backbiting, the scholars would not consider this as such. They maintained that the people have a right to know the authenticity of the narrator to be able to judge the Hadith.

The science of narrations and the narrators continued on this trend until scholars like Bukahri, Muslim, Ibn Hibban, Hakim, Ibn Majah, Nasai, etc. took upon themselves to compile these Ahadith into books. The scholars took various routes to these compilations such as:

Compile only the Sahih (Authentic) Ahadith. Examples would be Bukhari, Muslim and Hakim. While all these scholars strived to compile the authentic Ahadith, they were still reviewed by the contemporary scholars as well as scholars after them. While all the past and contemporary scholars of Ahadith agree upon the authenticity of Bukahri and Muslim, they did not grant the same status to other books such as Sahih Ibn Hibban and wrote commentaries on the Ahadith contained in those books.
Compile the sayings that were related only to jurisprudence. Such a book would only include the sayings related to rituals of worship and daily life without including the sayings related to the Islamic creed (Aqeedah). Such books would not comment on the authenticity but rather give the full narrations including the chain of narration. The authenticity of those narrations were left to the established authorities such as Bukhari, Muslim and others after them.
The above list is not meant to be exhaustive by any means as the students of this science spend many years trying to master these concepts.

Taxonomy and classes of Ahadith

Before concluding this piece of writing, it will be beneficial to list the taxonomy of Ahadith that have been compiled. Please note that only the most famous types are listed below.

Sahih: This is a Hadi
th which has a chain of narration that is composed of trusted narrators and the text of the Hadith is unqualified (Example of qualifications would be the ruling in the text being revoked by a later ruling such as the fasting of the tenth of Muharram used to be mandatory but later became voluntary when the fasting during the month of Ramadhan was mandated).

Hasan: This is similar to above, but the chain of narration is not quite as pristine.

Note: Any rulings contained in Ahadith that fall under the above two categories are considered as binding upon the Muslims by many scholars.

Mauquf: Such a narration is by the companion and not by the Prophet SAWS.

Mawdu: Such a narration is a falsified account due to either false text and / or one or more narrators who has been known to falsify narrations.

Mursal: This is a narration in which the Tabi’ee (generation after the companion) narrates a Hadith directly from the Prophet SAWS without mentioning the companion.

Maqtu: This is a narration in which there is a break in the chain of the narration. Since the era of existence and the dates of deaths of various narrators is known in the science of narrators, scholars can easily point out the missing links in the narrations.

The above Ahadith (with the exception of Sahih and Hasan) are not considered binding in determining a religious ruling and the scholars would not decide anything based on them.

The science of Hadith authentication is very comprehensive and includes numerous checks and balances. This post was meant to provide only an overview.

[MD Marketers]

York check this out:
I am actually looking for all the research that covers the topic of following Qur'an and "Mohammed's Sunnah" as referenced to in the Qur'an.

This is what I have found:

Following The Qur’an and The Sunnah

3:144. Muhammad (SAW) is no more than a Messenger, and indeed (many) Messengers have passed away before him. If he dies or is killed, will you then turn back on your heels?...

Some Muslims claim that we should only be following the Qur'an and neglect the Sunnah. This is very wrong, and clearly shows that these people have not understood the Qur'an. It's important to read and understand the Qur'an, and it is just as important to know how Muhammad (SAW) lived according to it. The Qur'an is the Final Revelation from Allah, the Sunnah are The Ways of the Final Messenger of Allah (SAW), so knowledge should be taken from both sources.

- Below are some verses in the Qur'an, which prove the fact that we must obey and follow the Messenger Muhammad (SAW) if we are real Muslims (i.e. submitters):

3:31. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
3:32. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)."...
3:132. And obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) that you may obtain mercy.
4:13. ...and whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) will be admitted to Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), to abide therein, and that will be the great success.
4:59. O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger...
4:64. We sent no Messenger, but to be obeyed...
4:69. And whosoever obeys Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), then they will be in the company of those on whom Allah has bestowed His Grace...
4:80. He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), has indeed obeyed Allah...
5:92. And obey Allah and the Messenger...
8:1. ...and obey Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), if you are believers.
8:20. O you who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him (Messenger Muhammad SAW)...
8:46. And obey Allah and His Messenger...
9:71. ...and obey Allah and His Messenger...
24:52. And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (SAW), fears Allah, and keeps his duty (to Him), such are the successful ones.
24:54. Say: "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger...
24:56. ...and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) that you may receive mercy (from Allah).
33:21. Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow...
33:33. ...and obey Allah and His Messenger...
33:71. ...And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (SAW) he has indeed achieved a great achievement.
47:33. O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)...
48:17. ...And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), He will admit him to Gardens beneath which rivers flow (Paradise)...
59:7. ...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)...
64:12.  Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)...
When Allah says "Obey the Messenger" this does not only refer to people around the Messenger (SAW) 1400 years ago, because the Qur'an was sent to all of mankind until the Last Day.
39:41. Verily, We have sent down to you (O Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Quran) for mankind...
Allah is telling all Muslims to obey Muhammad (SAW). So the question here is "How do we obey and follow Muhammad (SAW)?". We follow him in his manners, actions, practices... etc. The Scholars of Islam have in fact dedicated their lives writing down these things [passed onto them from authentic chains leading to the Messenger (SAW), through the Sahaba(RA)] and preaching them to us through volumes and volumes of authentic books.
Allah only sent Messengers so that the people would obey them,
4:64. We sent no Messenger, but to be obeyed...

What the writer is trying to suggest here is that obeying Allah's word (Qur'an) & obeying Mohammed's words (Hadith other than Qur'an) are 2 seperate things sanctioned by Qur'an.
He is trying to differentiate the two to claim that:
Obey Quran is what is meant by "Obey Allah"
&
Following Mohammed's Actions is what is meant by "Obey/follow Mohammed"

In other words "Obey what Allah SAYS (Qur'an) & in addition to that follow everything exactly as Mohammed DOES (sunnah of Mohammed)"

My question is this:
Did you really understand that from those verses?
How does one correlate "obeying Mohammed" to "following Mohammed's every action".
Muslims today will tell you if Mohammed picked his nose with his left pinky finger then we should do the same. This is what they refer to as "Sunnah of Muhammed"

There are only 2 verse above that alludes to "Mohammed" & "follow" in the same sentence:

One verse says "messenger of Allah as a GOOD example to follow". It did not say PERFECT or BEST.
It did not say "we have to follow him or else".
Since when does an example mean to follow exactly as observed?
If I say use the EXAMPLE 2+2=4 to find the answer to 3+3 will you write 2+2=4?
If I tell you a good example is Mohammed & the best example is Qur'an alone does this mean the best example is Qur'an + Mohammed?
It's not logical.

The other verse says "if you love Allah then follow me".
You are faced with two meanings here:
Follow me = follow everything I do physically in my life exactly how I do it (not mentioned anywhere in the Qur'an)
Or
Follow me = obey me (mentioned 21 times in the Quran)
Why did you choose to believe the former?

There is not a single verse that says obey Allah and "follow the prophet's actions" so where did "scholars" get this understanding from?

Here is something even more interesting:
As a Muslim do you believe there are words spoken to Mohammed by Allah that are not written in the Quran?
If yes then where did you get this information? Was it stated by Allah in the Qur'an that he spoke to Mohammed things that will not be written in the Qur'an.
If the answer is no then tell me this:
How do you know everything he knows was sanctioned by Allah?
In Islam Muslims are told that not everything Mohammed knows is sanctioned by Allah. Eg. The prophet chastised people for asking his advice on non religious matters, claiming that only Allah knows best and that we should seek the advice of professionals as well. Is this a fabrication I just made up? It is written in many Hadith & also told to almost all Muslims from very young.

Do you remember this verse?
"We sent no messenger, but to be obeyed..."
It's written above.
If you did anything other than "obey" this messenger wouldn't you be in defiance of this verse?
If the prophet said "do not write down my actions & sayings outside of the Qur'an" & you wrote it down would it not be disobeying the Qur'an? Well 3 of your non Quranic Hadith actually says that.
What about these verses:
"And obey God and obey the messenger and be cautious; but if you turn back, then know that the sole duty of the messenger is the deliverance (of the message)" 5:92
"And obey God and obey the messenger, but if you turn back, then upon Our messenger is the sole duty of the clear delivery (of the message)" 64:12
You really think the message referred to here is not the "Qur'an" alone?

If following Mohammed's every action is a rule of thumb then we should all be riding camels & stop using Internet. Women should start sleeping with more than 1 wife. We should all live in the middle east. We should only eat Arabian Food. We should all be leaders. We should stop using modern technology on the whole.
If God told you obey/follow your Mother would you start sleeping with your dad?
Can you even imagine what this world would be like if every muslim was supposed to follow the rule in its purest form? A rule that is not even in the Qur'an?

Isn't it logical that:
The Qur'an does not require you follow Mohammed's every action, it just requires you to obey the Prophet by obeying the Qur'an.
Even if you believe a Hadith that says to do the opposite it will be in Defiance of Qur'an.

So again I ask where does the Qur'an endorse following Mohammed's every action outside of Qur'an?

[MD Marketers]

Personally I don't believe in anything as absolutely true but I can definitely see an Islam without Hadith would definitely be a more peacefully religion & much easier to follow. I know many Muslims believe that Islam wasn't meant to be easy to follow, but didn't the Qur'an say God wouldn't give you a burden heavier than you can carry?


2:286 (Asad) God does not burden any human being with more than he is well able to bear: in his favour shall be whatever good he does, and against him whatever evil he does. O our Sustainer! Take us not to task if we forget or unwittingly do wrong! "O our Sustainer! Lay not upon us a burden such as Thou didst lay upon those who lived before us! [278] O our Sustainer! Make us not bear burdens which we have no strength to bear! "And efface Thou our sins, and grant us forgiveness, and bestow Thy mercy upon us! Thou art our Lord Supreme: succour us, then, against people who deny the truth!"

6:152 (Asad) and do not touch the substance of an orphan - save to improve it-before he comes of age." [149] And [in all your dealings] give full measure and weight, [150] with equity: [however,] We do not burden any human being with more than he is well able to bear; [151] and when you voice an opinion, be just, even though it be [against] one near of kin. [152] And [always] observe your bond with God: [153] this has He enjoined upon you, so that you might keep it in mind.

7:42 (Asad) But those who attain to faith and do righteous deeds - [and] We do not burden any human being with more than he is well able to bear - they are destined for paradise, therein to abide,


65:7 (Asad) [In all these respects,] let him who has ample means spend in accordance with [15] his amplitude; and let him whose means of subsistence are scanty spend in accordance with what God has given him: God does not burden any human being with more than He has given him - [and it may well be that] God will grant, after hardship, ease.

[York]

Sorry, it is the "Authoritative Validity of the Sunnah":

AUTHORITY FROM GOD!

Also, supposed to be available as MP3 on the net. The info you desire is there, ie. where in the Quran states that the Sunnah (hadith) is to be followed.

The hadith was preserved in the chests of men for 200 yrs before it was collected by the imams Bukhari, etc. It continues to be preserved as such. The imams didn't write down everything they collected. Bukhari's hadith collection book contains about 7000 narrations from the 100,000 or so that he memorized / collected.

Will watch the video shortly.

So Muslims are supposed to believe the Hadith was "preserved in the chests of men for 200 yrs?"
Like I always say I will assume anything you say to be true once it makes logical sense.

Where did you get this "preserve in the chest" theory from?

Will discuss same sex marriages in another thread soon.

Ok I finished watching the video.
The video starts with the assumption that the "Sunnah of the Prophet" was preserved by Allah & referenced to in the revelation of Qur'an.

Where in the Qur'an does it say that "Sunnah of Muhammed" will be preserved?
Where in the Qur'an does it say "Sunnah of Muhammed" + Qur'an = Islam
Just show me one verse that says follow the teachings/sayings of Muhammed whereby teachings/sayings does not mean Qur'an.
How do you know the Sunnah spoken about in the Qur'an isn't the Qur'an?

Can you show me one verse of Qur'an that says follow the Qur'an AND the Sunnah?

Just one verse is all that is needed and you would have won this argument that certain "Hadith outside Qur'an" is preserved by Allah.

Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger’s duty to proclaim (the Message) in the clearest manner. (5: 92).
O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best, and most suitable for final determination. (4: 59).
Say: “Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance.(24: 54).
And whoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger, Allâh shall admit him in the Gardens underneath which rivers flow. (4:13)
And whoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has won a great success. (33:71)
And we sent no messenger, but that he should be obeyed by the leave of Allâh. (4:64)

Sunnah is revelation from Allah:

The Prophets commands by his words are revelation itself, and they are the commands of Allah by meaning sent down to the Messenger to be delivered to the believers by the Messenger’s words.So the Quran is revelation by meaning and word and the Sunnah is revelation by meaning only.
Evidence of that is:And whoever obeys the Messenger, thereby obeys Allâh. (4:80)

It is obedience to Allah because:

Allah has commanded us in Quran to obey the Messenger, so obeying him would be obeying Allah’s command
The Prophet’s (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) teachings are not from himself, but from Allah, He is the one who taught him to teach the believers, so obeying the Prophet’s teachings would be obeying Allah.

Also, some points regarding this:

The Messenger of Allah would not make up his own commands, and he wouldn’t know what Allah wants us to do unless Allah taught him what He wants, and to say that the Messenger of Allah made up things from himself without the command of Allah, would be saying that the Messenger of Allah betrayed the Message and that Allah choose an untrustworthy man to deliver His message, and that would be an attack on Allah and His Messenger sallallahu alayhi wa sallam.
The Messenger is sent to deliver the book and explain it to the people, and Allah states clearly that he sent Prophet Muhammad sallallau alayhi wa sallam to explain to people what Allah has sent to them. And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Qur’ân), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought. (16:44)

[MD Marketers]

Sorry, it is the "Authoritative Validity of the Sunnah":

AUTHORITY FROM GOD!

Also, supposed to be available as MP3 on the net. The info you desire is there, ie. where in the Quran states that the Sunnah (hadith) is to be followed.

The hadith was preserved in the chests of men for 200 yrs before it was collected by the imams Bukhari, etc. It continues to be preserved as such. The imams didn't write down everything they collected. Bukhari's hadith collection book contains about 7000 narrations from the 100,000 or so that he memorized / collected.

Will watch the video shortly.

So Muslims are supposed to believe the Hadith was "preserved in the chests of men for 200 yrs?"
Like I always say I will assume anything you say to be true once it makes logical sense.

Where did you get this "preserve in the chest" theory from?

Will discuss same sex marriages in another thread soon.

Ok I finished watching the video.
The video starts with the assumption that the "Sunnah of the Prophet" was preserved by Allah & referenced to in the revelation of Qur'an.

Where in the Qur'an does it say that "Sunnah of Muhammed" will be preserved?
Where in the Qur'an does it say "Sunnah of Muhammed" + Qur'an = Islam
Just show me one verse that says follow the teachings/sayings of Muhammed whereby teachings/sayings does not mean Qur'an.
How do you know the Sunnah spoken about in the Qur'an isn't the Qur'an?

Can you show me one verse of Qur'an that says follow the Qur'an AND the Sunnah?

Just one verse is all that is needed and you would have won this argument that certain "Hadith outside Qur'an" is preserved by Allah.

Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger’s duty to proclaim (the Message) in the clearest manner. (5: 92).
O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best, and most suitable for final determination. (4: 59).
Say: “Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance.(24: 54).
And whoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger, Allâh shall admit him in the Gardens underneath which rivers flow. (4:13)
And whoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has won a great success. (33:71)
And we sent no messenger, but that he should be obeyed by the leave of Allâh. (4:64)

Sunnah is revelation from Allah:

The Prophets commands by his words are revelation itself, (You are now saying the prophet received revelation outside of the Quranic verses & repeated it to his followers. Where did you read this?) and they are the commands of Allah by meaning sent down to the Messenger to be delivered to the believers by the Messenger’s words.So the Quran is revelation by meaning and word and the Sunnah is revelation by meaning only.
Evidence of that is:And whoever obeys the Messenger, thereby obeys Allâh. (4:80)

It is obedience to Allah because:

Allah has commanded us in Quran to obey the Messenger, so obeying him would be obeying Allah’s command
The Prophet’s (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) teachings are not from himself, but from Allah,(you are now claiming that the Prophet received revelation from Allah outside the Qur'anic verses. Where did you read this?) He is the one who taught him to teach the believers, so obeying the Prophet’s teachings would be obeying Allah.

Also, some points regarding this:

The Messenger of Allah would not make up his own commands, (No one is claiming this) and he wouldn’t know what Allah wants us to do unless Allah taught him what He wants (You are now claiming revelation was given outside of Qur'an. Where did you read that?) and to say that the Messenger of Allah made up things from himself without the command of Allah, would be saying that the Messenger of Allah betrayed the Message and that Allah choose an untrustworthy man to deliver His message, (luckily no one is claiming that) and that would be an attack on Allah and His Messenger sallallahu alayhi wa sallam.
The Messenger is sent to deliver the book and explain (You really think "explain" means add new meaning instead of explain the current meaning? Where did you read this?) it to the people, and Allah states clearly that he sent Prophet Muhammad sallallau alayhi wa sallam to explain ( as in add new meaning?) to people what Allah has sent to them. And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Qur’ân), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought. (16:44)

[York]

MD,
Is it clear to you that the Qur'an was revealed and exists in reality memorized by millions? Do you believe in it as instructions sent by God? Will you then follow it?

[MD Marketers]

MD,
Is it clear to you that the Qur'an was revealed and exists in reality memorized by millions? Do you believe in it as instructions sent by God? Will you then follow it?

Whether I follow it or not isn't relevant.
I have already conceded for the sake of discussion that the Qur'an is the Word of God. I am actually upholding your Qur'an from a logical perspective.

I want any Muslim reading this to comment about the following:
Qur'an clearly states don't follow Hadith other than Qur'an.
I quoted many Quranic verses that confirm this.
I quoted many Hadith that confirm the prophet didn't want his people to write down Hadith for fear they will start following an expanded version of Quran. Bukhari still did it 200 years later. If you chose to believe in Hadith then you cannot deny this point.
I challenged every Muslim to show just one verse of Quran that says they must follow not just Quran alone but also it's expanded explanations in the form of the prophet's Sunnah.
I showed that for 200 years after the prophet died the Hadith couldn't even be allowed to be compiled because the Prophet's words we're still ringing in his Ummah's ears "don't write anything other than Quran & claim it as Islamic"

Yet despite all my unrefuted information you would still tell me The Quran (God's final word) required an expanded explanation?

Do you think I am being illogical in any way? Show me where & I will be the first to concede. Logic is my passion.

[MD Marketers]

Hadith Follower vs Qur'an:

This is what I assume a debate between a Hadith Follower & Qur'an would sound like:

Qur'an:
"If it were from other than God, they would have found in it numerous contradictions." 4:82
Hadith Follower:
Hadith was originally inspired by God but man's intervention has resulted in numerous contradictions of the message.

Qur'an:
"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?" 6:114
Hadith Follower:
Yes the Qur'an was fully detailed as a source of law but we need a source of understanding it.

Qur'an:
“Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord (Quran); do not follow other masters beside Him.” 7:3
Hadith Follower:
Yes the Qur'an was sent by the Lord, & the Hadith were also divinely inspired by God.

Qur'an:
"These are God's revelations (Quran) that We recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?" 45:6
Hadith Follower:
Yes the Quran is God's truthful revelation & the original Hadith are also a truthful inspiration.

Qur'an:
“Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of God without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution.” 31:6
Hadith Follower:
Yes there are baseless Hadith but I try uphold God's original Hadith as a source of understanding.

Qur'an:
"It (the Quran) is a revelation from the Lord of the universe. Had he (Muhammad) uttered any other teachings, We would have grabbed him by the right, and We would have severed his Wateen (Major artery of the heart), none of you could have helped him." 69:43-47
Hadith Follower:
Yes the Qur'an is a revelation from the Lord of the universe & the original Hadiths were an inspiration from the same Lord.

Qur'an:
"Say (O Muhammad), "I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me (Quran). I am no more than a profound warner." 46:9 (also in 10:15).
Hadith Follower:
Yes I only follow the Qur'an, but I better understand Qur'an through Hadith explanations

Qur'an:
"Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with God's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you" 5:48
Hadith Follower:
Yes I follow God's scriptures & I also understand the inspiration of God's original Hadith once it does not differ from the Qur'an.

Qur'an:
“You cannot guide the ones you love. God is the only One who guides in accordance with His will, and in accordance with His knowledge of those who deserve the guidance.” 28:56
Hadith Follower:
Yes I am guided by God with original inspired Hadiths, not by Mohammed's own intellect

Qur'an:
“I possess no power to harm you nor to guide you” 72:21
Hadith Follower:
Yes it is God that guides us with the use of originally inspired Hadiths.

Qur'an:
"The sole duty of the messenger is to deliver the message (Quran)" 5:92
Hadith Follower:
Yes he did deliver the Qur'an out of duty, but he explained the Qur'an out of love with the use of the original inspired Hadiths with God's permission

Logical Observations:
The Qur'an (by itself) is not fully detailed in every aspect of life.
The Qur'an is fully detailed as a source of law only.
Hadith are not a source of law as the Qur'an is.
God allowed Mohammed's followers to write some of his inspiration as a source of law (Qur'an).
God explained the rest of his inspiration as a source of explaining things (Hadith) not touched on in the source of law.
Hadith was not inspired by God as a form of understanding the law, as the law was already fully detailed.
When the Qur'an speaks about "the message" it is referring to only the written revelations.
God's Law was fully completed in the Qur'an & not in the Hadith.
Hadith are not preserved by God as the Qur'an is.
Hadith should only be used to understand & not contradict the source of law.
Do not enforce Hadith as a source of law
You do not need any other source of law other than the Qur'an.

Do you think this alternative is logical:
"In Islam, the sacred text called the "Hadith," which is Arabic for "narrative" or "report," is a record of Islamic tradition: it is a record of the words and deeds of the prophet Muhammad, his family, and his companions. It is the second most important text in Islam next to the Quran. Although not regarded as the spoken Word of God like the Quran, the Hadith is an important source of doctrine, law, and practice."
It is "revered in Islam as a major source of religious law and moral guidance"

[York]

MD,
You are not a mufassir, neither understanding the Arabic language, yet you claim to know what the verses of the Qur'an mean. You are making "logical" incorrect conclusions.

The hadith was not written down so as not to be mistaken with the Qur'an which was allowed to be written. However, it was memorized in the hearts and minds of men, the Sahaabah (Companions).

So it was not that Bukhari just woke up one day 200 yrs later and decided to write it down. He travelled from Russia to all over the Islamic world to "collect" these narrations and memorize them. No one in the modern era can dispute the ahadith because it is impossible for totally separate chains of individuals conspire to make up these narrations when they lived in different places at different times and did not meet each other.

There were fabricated narrations that were spread to corrupt Islam but the science of hadith identifies these as weak / fabricated. Only sahih ones are used for aqeedah belief system. Weak ones are rejected.

Hadith and Islam is the truth. Faith comprises acceptance and submission. If you accept that there is a GOD but refuse to follow His laws and messengers, then you have not really believed.

Islam makes perfect sense and the logical thinking person will follow it. So look at what it contains, not what it does not.

[MD Marketers]

MD,
You are not a mufassir, neither understanding the Arabic language, (How do you know I am not & even if I was you would still not listen to my logic) yet you claim to know what the verses of the Qur'an mean. You are making "logical" incorrect conclusions. (why? because I repeated the Qur'anic verses without twisting it?)

The hadith was not written down so as not to be mistaken with the Qur'an which was allowed to be written. However, it was memorized in the hearts and minds of men, the Sahaabah (Companions). (Only to be still written down 200 years later with no original witnesses around to verify them & to be confused as another source of law other than the Qur'an. Why say it wasn't written down when it was? Who allowed it to be written down? Satan? Allah? Mohammed? Bukhari?)

So it was not that Bukhari just woke up one day 200 yrs later and decided to write it down. He travelled from Russia to all over the Islamic world to "collect" these narrations and memorize them. No one in the modern era can dispute the ahadith because it is impossible for totally separate chains of individuals conspire to make up these narrations when they lived in different places at different times and did not meet each other.(That would make logical sense if all Hadith that muffasir consider as Sahih were not contradictory)

There were fabricated narrations that were spread to corrupt Islam but the science of hadith identifies these as weak / fabricated. Only sahih ones are used for aqeedah belief system. Weak ones are rejected. (There are obviously fabricated Sahih Hadith too. How do you explain those?)

Hadith and Islam is the truth. Faith comprises acceptance and submission. If you accept that there is a GOD but refuse to follow His laws and messengers, then you have not really believed. (accepting God and refusing to follow man made laws disguised as God's laws is the issue)

Islam makes perfect sense and the logical thinking person will follow it. So look at what it contains, not what it does not(it doesn't contain inauthentic Hadith as a source of Law).

[York]

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Hadith

Why not just post your source above? You will not find truth the way you are going about.

Just read the Quran and Hadith for yourself.

[MD Marketers]

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Hadith

Why not just post your source above? You will not find truth the way you are going about.

Just read the Quran and Hadith for yourself.

The sources quoted are from Hadith. Their location is written under each quote.
I checked each Hadith quoted before posting it here & they are all confirmed.
If you wish to prove me wrong then show me where the hadith quoted are misquoted.
Don't tell me stuff like "the guy who gave you the Hadith has no understanding of Islam.
It's the same Hadith you use.
If you think I'm wrong or misleading then show it, don't just say it. If you can't then ask a "Muffasir" to show how it is wrong, but don't claim it's wrong just because you or your "Muffassir" said so.
What kind of logic requires you to believe in something simply because someone you respect said it is true? It's called blind faith.
If you want to believe in blind faith then go ahead but why try to convince logical thinking religious minded people to have blind faith too? Your own Qur'an abhors Blind Faith, whilst you wallow in it?

Here are a few of the many verses where God tells mankind to use its intellect instead of blind faith:

Surely the worst of beasts in God's sight are those that are deaf and dumb and do not reason. (8:22)

 
And it is not for a soul to believe except by permission of Allah, and He will place defilement upon those who will not use reason. (10:100)

Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful. (2:111)

How many populations have We destroyed, which were given to wrong-doing? They tumbled down on their roofs. And how many wells are lying idle and neglected, and castles lofty and well-built?. Do they not travel through the land, so that their hearts (and minds) may thus learn wisdom and their ears may thus learn to hear? Truly it is not their eyes that are blind, but their hearts which are in their breasts.... ? (22:45-46)

And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from Allah's way; they follow but conjecture and they do but guess. (6:116)

And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge... (17:36)

And when it is said to them: 'Follow what God has sent down', they say, 'No; but we will follow such things as we found our fathers doing.' What? Even if their fathers had no understanding of anything, and if they were not guided ? (2:170)

They follow but a guess and that which (they) themselves desire. And now the guidance from their Lord hath come unto them..(53:23)

O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you not be just, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do. (4:135)

O David, indeed We have made you a successor upon the earth, so judge between the people in truth and do not follow [your own] desire, as it will lead you astray from the way of Allah." Indeed, those who go astray from the way of Allah will have a severe punishment for having forgotten the Day of Account.(38:26)

In the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of night and day, there are signs for people with intelligence: those who remember God, standing, sitting and lying on their sides, and reflect on the creation of the heavens and the earth: Our Lord, You have not created this for nothing. Glory be to You! So safeguard us from the punishment of the Fire. (Surat Al ‘Imran: 190-191)

In the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and day, and the ships which sail the seas to people's benefit, and the water which God sends down from the sky – by which He brings the earth to life when it was dead and scatters about in it creatures of every kind – and the varying direction of the winds, and the clouds subservient between heaven and earth, there are Signs for people who use their intellect. ( Surat al-Baqara: 164)

Do you not see that God sends down water from the sky and by it We bring forth fruits of varying colours? And in the mountains there are streaks of white and red, or varying shades, and rocks of deep jet black. And mankind and beasts and livestock are likewise of varying colours. Only those of His slaves with knowledge have fear of God. God is Almighty, Ever-Forgiving. (Surah Fatir: 27-28)

Will they not ponder the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah, they would have found many inconsistencies in it. ( Surat an-Nisa': 82)

This is what Qur'an has to say about Blind Faith Followers:

When it is said to them: Follow what ALLAH hath revealed: they say: Nay we shall follow the ways of our fathers. What even though their fathers were void of wisdom and guidance? {2:170}.

When it is said to them: Come to what ALLAH hath revealed; come to the Messenger: they say: Enough for us are the ways we found our fathers following. What even though their fathers were void of knowledge and guidance?{5:104}.

When they commit an indecency, they say: We found our fathers doing so; and ALLAH commanded us thus: Say: Nay, ALLAH never command what is Indecent: do ye say of ALLAH what ye know not?
Say: My Lord hath commanded justice: and that ye set your whole selves (to Him) at every time and place of prayer, and call upon Him, making your devotion sincere such as He created you in the beginning, so shall ye return.
Some He hath guided: others have deserved the loss of their way; in that they took the Satans in preference to ALLAH, for their friends and protectors, and think that they receive guidance.{7:28-30}.

When they are told to follow the (Revelation) that ALLAH Has sent down, they say: Nay, we shall follow the ways that we found our fathers (following). What even if it is Satan beckoning them to the Chastisement of the (Blazing) Fire?
Whoever submits his whole self to ALLAH, and is a doer of good, has grasped indeed the firmest hand-hold: and to ALLAH shall all things return.
But if any reject Faith, let not his rejection grieve thee: to Us is their Return, and We shall tell them the truth of their deeds: for ALLAH knows well all that is in (men’s) hearts. We grant them their pleasure for a little while: in the end shall We drive them to a chastisement unrelenting.{31:21-24}.

Just in the same way, whenever We sent a Warner before thee to any people, the wealthy ones among them said: We found our fathers following a certain religion, and we will certainly follow in their footsteps.
He said What even if I brought you better guidance than that which ye found your fathers following? They said: For us, we deny that which ye (prophets) are sent with.
So We exacted retribution from them: now see what was the end of those who rejected (Truth)
Behold Abraham said to his father and his people: I do indeed clear myself of what ye worship: (I worship) only Him Who originated me, and He will certainly guide me.
And he left it as a Word to endure among those who came after him, that they may turn back (to ALLAH). {43:23-28}.

These are nothing but names which ye have devised, ye and your fathers, for which ALLAH has sent down no authority (whatever).
They follow nothing but; conjecture and what the souls desire
Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord.{53:23}.

Those who reject Faith, neither their possession nor their (numerous) progeny will avail them aught against ALLAH: they will be Companions of the Fire, dwelling therein (for ever). What they spend in the life of this (material) world may be likened to a Wind which brings a nipping frost: it strikes and destroys the harvest of men who have wronged their own souls: it is not ALLAH that hath wronged them, but they wrong themselves. {Quran: 3:117}

The parable of those who reject their Lord is that their works are as ashes, on which the wind blows furiously on a tempestuous day: no power have they over aught that they have earned: that is the straying far, far (from the goal). {Quran: 14:18}.

The Unbelievers, their deeds are like a mirage in sandy deserts, which the man parched with thirst mistakes for water; until when he comes up to it, he finds it to be nothing: but he finds ALLAH there, and ALLAH will pay him his account: and ALLAH is swift in taking account. {Quran: 24:39}.

Here is a parable set forth Listen to it Those on whom, besides ALLAH, ye call, cannot create (even) a fly, if they all met together for the purpose And if the fly should snatch away anything from them, they would have no power to release it from the fly. Feeble are those who petition and those whom they petition. {Quran: 22:73 }.

The similitude of those who were entrusted with the (obligations of) Taurat, but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is that of a donkey which carries huge tomes (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of ALLAH: and ALLAH guides not people who do wrong. {Quran: 62:5}.

(the Unbelievers' state) is like the depths of darkness in a vast deep ocean, overwhelmed with billow topped by billow, topped by (dark) clouds: depths of darkness, one above another: if a man stretches out his hand, he can hardly see it For any to whom ALLAH giveth not light, there is no light. {Quran: 24:40}.

[York]

MD,
You are being subjected to the verse below:
It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) the Book (this Qur'an). In it are verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the verses of Al-Ahkam (commandments), Al-Fara'id (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers)]; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. (Tafsir At-Tabari).

( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #7)

[York]

Similarly (to complete My Blessings on you), We have sent among you a Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) of your own, reciting to you Our Verses (the Qur'an) and purifying you, and teaching you the Book (the Qur'an) and the Hikmah (i.e. sunnah, Islamic laws and Fiqh - jurisprudence), and teaching you that which you used not to know.

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #151)

And treat not the Verses (Laws) of Allah as a jest, but remember Allah's Favours on you (i.e. Islam), and that which He has sent down to you of the Book (i.e. the Qur'an) and Al-Hikmah (the Prophet's sunnah - legal ways - Islamic jurisprudence.) whereby He instructs you. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is All-Aware of everything.

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #231)

Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم to mankind): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Qur'an and the sunnah), Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #31)

Indeed Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) from among themselves, reciting unto them His Verses (the Qur'an), and purifying them (from sins by their following him), and instructing them (in) the Book (the Qur'an) and Al-Hikmah [the wisdom and the sunnah of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم (i.e. his legal ways, statements, acts of worship)], while before that they had been in manifest error.

( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #164)

Had not the Grace of Allah and His Mercy been upon you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم), a party of them would certainly have made a decision to mislead you, but (in fact) they mislead none except their own selves, and no harm can they do to you in the least. Allah has sent down to you the Book (The Qur'an), and Al-Hikmah (Islamic laws, knowledge of legal and illegal things i.e. the Prophet's sunnah - legal ways), and taught you that which you knew not. And Ever Great is the Grace of Allah unto you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم).

( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #113)

And remember (O you the members of the Prophet's family, the Graces of your Lord), that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allah and Al-Hikmah (i.e. Prophet's sunnah - legal ways, so give your thanks to Allah and glorify His Praises for this Qur'an and the sunnah ). Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, Well-Acquainted with all things.

( سورة الأحزاب , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #34)

Make not the calling of the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) among you as your calling one of another. Allah knows those of you who slip away under shelter (of some excuse without taking the permission to leave, from the Messenger (صلى الله عليه وسلم). And let those who oppose the Messenger's (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) commandment (i.e. his sunnah - legal ways, orders, acts of worship, statements) (among the sects) beware, lest some Fitnah (disbelief, trials, afflictions, earthquakes, killing, overpowered by a tyrant) should befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.

( سورة النور , An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #63)

[MD Marketers]

MD,
You are being subjected to the verse below:
It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) the Book (this Qur'an). In it are verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the verses of Al-Ahkam (commandments), Al-Fara'id (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers)]; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. (Tafsir At-Tabari). ( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #7)

[MD Marketers]

Similarly (to complete My Blessings on you), We have sent among you a Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) of your own, reciting to you Our Verses (the Qur'an) and purifying you, and teaching you the Book (the Qur'an) and the Hikmah (i.e. sunnah, Islamic laws and Fiqh - jurisprudence), and teaching you that which you used not to know.

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #151)

And treat not the Verses (Laws) of Allah as a jest, but remember Allah's Favours on you (i.e. Islam), and that which He has sent down to you of the Book (i.e. the Qur'an) and Al-Hikmah (the Prophet's sunnah - legal ways - Islamic jurisprudence.) whereby He instructs you. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is All-Aware of everything.

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #231)

Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم to mankind): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Qur'an and the sunnah), Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #31)

Indeed Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) from among themselves, reciting unto them His Verses (the Qur'an), and purifying them (from sins by their following him), and instructing them (in) the Book (the Qur'an) and Al-Hikmah [the wisdom and the sunnah of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم (i.e. his legal ways, statements, acts of worship)], while before that they had been in manifest error.

( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #164)

Had not the Grace of Allah and His Mercy been upon you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم), a party of them would certainly have made a decision to mislead you, but (in fact) they mislead none except their own selves, and no harm can they do to you in the least. Allah has sent down to you the Book (The Qur'an), and Al-Hikmah (Islamic laws, knowledge of legal and illegal things i.e. the Prophet's sunnah - legal ways), and taught you that which you knew not. And Ever Great is the Grace of Allah unto you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم).

( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #113)

And remember (O you the members of the Prophet's family, the Graces of your Lord), that which is recited in your houses of the Verses of Allah and Al-Hikmah (i.e. Prophet's sunnah - legal ways, so give your thanks to Allah and glorify His Praises for this Qur'an and the sunnah ). Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, Well-Acquainted with all things.

( سورة الأحزاب , Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #34)

Make not the calling of the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) among you as your calling one of another. Allah knows those of you who slip away under shelter (of some excuse without taking the permission to leave, from the Messenger (صلى الله عليه وسلم). And let those who oppose the Messenger's (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) commandment (i.e. his sunnah - legal ways, orders, acts of worship, statements) (among the sects) beware, lest some Fitnah (disbelief, trials, afflictions, earthquakes, killing, overpowered by a tyrant) should befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.

( سورة النور , An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #63)

[York]

Hikmah = Explanation and Understanding.

This is the month of Ramadan and focused on other important activities.

Will you use logic to disbelieve in whatever Islam puts forward? Try going to authentic Islamic sites for correct information...www.islamqa.info/en , www.abdurrahman.org.

[York]

Personally I don't believe in anything as absolutely true but I can definitely see an Islam without Hadith would definitely be a more peacefully religion & much easier to follow. I know many Muslims believe that Islam wasn't meant to be easy to follow, but didn't the Qur'an say God wouldn't give you a burden heavier than you can carry?

Following the messenger, Muhammad (pbuh), is a burden that muslims have been able to bear/carry for over 1400 years. We don't have an issue with it, so why do you? You don't have to answer, it is above in bold.

[desifemlove]

eh? ISIS today is no different to his successors, the Ottomans, Akbar the great in India, or any great Muslim empire and how they conquerered. if they burned people in 1550 AD, or 1450 AD, it would be "dais ah cool scene, nutten wrong wit dat..." only reason now is our moral system is different.

[York]

eh? ISIS today is no different to his successors, the Ottomans, Akbar the great in India, or any great Muslim empire and how they conquerered. if they burned people in 1550 AD, or 1450 AD, it would be "dais ah cool scene, nutten wrong wit dat..." only reason now is our moral system is different.

if you say?

you are obviously ignoring the vast majority of muslims who have said that, "ISIS is not a cool scene and everything wrong wit dat"!

[desifemlove]

no. but the OP said Muhammed warned about ISIS. Why, if he even did, when ISIS acts the same way as people did in HIS time and for centuries after he died? what's so extra special to warn about?

[York]

^lies, Muslims didn't act that way. That's why he warned about them in the quoted article.

He warned about groups with the characteristics of ISIS, not specifically ISIS alone.

Haters will be haters and rejecters of truth will reject ....the truth.

[MD Marketers]

One if you is arguing that Isis kills the innocent without just cause such as oppression of the Islamic world with the threat of religious persecution & it is similar to the actions of Muslims during the time of Mohammed.

The Muslims are saying that their scripture and their traditions teach that acts of killing the innocent were only used during times of extreme religious oppression to let the enemies of Islam know they will not be oppressed into religious persecution until the oppression is quelled.

These are two totally different arguments and the latter one is more historically accurate.

What hidden agenda is the former poster attempting to accomplish by twisting the historical truth about Islam? Isis is clearly not following traditional Islam & obviously Mohammed himself would have condemned their actions if he were present today.

I'm not a Muslim by the way

[bluesclues]

hes right. u cant understand it because as an amateur and casual scholar ud have great difficulty interpretting the quran and hadiths. this is true because even noted scholars still struggle up to the highest ranks of islam.

to understand u need eyes to see, ears to hear and the spirit of truth to feel. u may u derstand parts based on ur own perception and experiences in life. but not the whole all encompassing truth and non-contradictory nature of the words.

wash 3 times a day is the true hadith. the extention of cleanliness is next to Godliness is also just a symbolic ritual. and muslims will get lost in it. lest they forget Allah can save a man drowning in a sewer, bless him and raise him a prophet if he so desired. this a man earns thru the purity of his heart and none else. rituals are just that. rituals. symbolic theatre re-enactments.

i think this, most religious ppl need to learn the difference between. non-spiritual scholars basically, dont have a prayer to put it bluntly. when it comes to understanding.

[desifemlove]

^lies, Muslims didn't act that way. That's why he warned about them in the quoted article.

He warned about groups with the characteristics of ISIS, not specifically ISIS alone.

Haters will be haters and rejecters of truth will reject ....the truth.

you was there during the original Caliphate times?

[Creative]

^lies, Muslims didn't act that way. That's why he warned about them in the quoted article.

He warned about groups with the characteristics of ISIS, not specifically ISIS alone.

Haters will be haters and rejecters of truth will reject ....the truth.

you was there during the original Caliphate times?

All that history is well documented and passed down from that time to now, if you and others would take the time to research and learn the facts instead of making false statements and accusations based on some biased books and false facts on the internet, you would get your answers. All our books with information on Islamic history are referenced back to original documents, so it should not be a problem.