'Black man dead' and 'Indian ppl dead now'

[Galvatron]

Right, so the elections are over, some are happy, some are not.

We have all been hearing the statements 'black man dead' and 'Indian ppl dead now' whenever governments have changed.

After reading the election thread, seems that there are die hards on both sides.

However, how many of you posting on tuner have ever been affected to make the above statements?

I am of the middle working class, and grew up in a middle income family.

Whichever party is in power has never drastically affected my life.

So can those who make those statements, share their experiences which support those statements!

I believe they are both stupid and unfounded, derived from the tribalism and division that both major parties have encouraged since our independence.

A lot of the younger folks, seem to just be repeating the opinions of their parents and grand parents...with little or no knowledge or experience of anything!

Maybe the elders on the forum can share their experiences from the past as well, when one party dominated and ruled.

Until Trinbagonians can move beyond this mindset, then we as a nation can never truly move forward!

[Galvatron]

68 views and not one reply!

seems like those statements are really unfounded!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I more or less agree with you.

The worst part of this whole election was in the comments posted on social media mostly by young people! Perhaps they are echoing their elders who are not on social media, but it was disgusting.

Some say it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other with the two parties.

What I can say is that so far T&T has been very lucky for middle class people to be able to say they are mostly unaffected regardless of who is in power.

[Death_ride]

I can agree to this...

Trinis and Tobagonians need to look past PNM and UNC... this era has to stop... this country needs to be truely one...

We are so easily bought... but we dont ever look at the circumstances behind it...

I hope this country realizes all the "giveaways" have a huge price to pay at the end of it all... no matter which government in power.

[Dizzy28]

As a middle class salaried individual I am looking forward to the increased Tax allowance that Dr Rowley graciously offered.

There are subtle benefits that middle class persons are given every now and again however unlike say the Child grant which only certain income groups can benefit from, the middle class benefits can also be accessed by the lower and upper income groups as well.

[zoom rader]

As a middle class salaried individual I am looking forward to the increased Tax allowance that Dr Rowley graciously offered.

There are subtle benefits that middle class persons are given every now and again however unlike say the Child grant which only certain income groups can benefit from, the middle class benefits can also be accessed by the lower and upper income groups as well.

Really? That increased Tax allowance will be soaked up with housing tax if your a home owner or increased rents.

[urbandilema]

Interesting tread..here is my thoughts on this..firstly I'm a member of the working class I don't live in the expensive side of life.the middle class to me doesn't exist again as there is one group of the super rich who control the government an we to struggle.i agree with country first as the pnm came with a younger panel as well new faces but let's see how they progress I wont say Indian or Blackman. .i personally hate racial crap we are trini and we should move away from the colonial style of mentality.nice thoughts uall and sorry for my grammar and spelling

[zoom rader]

Interesting tread..here is my thoughts on this..firstly I'm a member of the working class I don't live in the expensive side of life.the middle class to me doesn't exist again as there is one group of the super rich who control the government an we to struggle.i agree with country first as the pnm came with a younger panel as well new faces but let's see how they progress I wont say Indian or Blackman. .i personally hate racial crap we are trini and we should move away from the colonial style of mentality.nice thoughts uall and sorry for my grammar and spelling

Bro prime minister of the PNM will not be helping lower income or middle class folk.
As you said the super rich will dictate how to run the country and keep you where you are at present.
Under PP everyone was uplifting themselves.
In all PNM governments you stay where your are while the ppl that control PNM make more millions from ppl like your goodselfs

[make meh care]

Property tax and all the tax coming in 2015 wait and see.

[Advent]

ah swear i havent seen so much racists posts on fb from Indians ever.
"indians go suffer now" "fella prime minister" "kamla voted out because she indian" etc etc

[Galvatron]

ZR and others, please stick to the discussion.

If you don't have any experiences, post your opinions and views elsewhere.

Thank you.

[BrotherHood]

A sensible, humbling, realistic, unbiased post/thread. This is the mentality we should all follow.
As Dr. Rowley said ".... it is not we against them." "We will do this together." ".... every creed and race will find an equal face."

[zoom rader]

A sensible, humbling, realistic, unbiased post/thread. This is the mentality we should all follow.
As Dr. Rowley said ".... it is now we against them." "We will do this together." ".... every creed and race will find an equal face."

That don't happen under PNM, never did and never will.

[desifemlove]

ah swear i havent seen so much racists posts on fb from Indians ever.
"indians go suffer now" "fella prime minister" "kamla voted out because she indian" etc etc

so how come she get in? is this year-based racism?

[BrotherHood]

Time will tell but what basis you going on to say that it never did and never will?
The biggest racist in T&T is heavily condoned by the PP adminstration, as it clear to see.

This thread could all go downhill. I will stop there.

[Cooloh]

A lot of the younger folks, seem to just be repeating the opinions of their parents and grand parents...with little or no knowledge or experience of anything!

I think this is one of the major problems associated with this issue. I know of families where the fathers have said to their kids that they HAVE to vote for a particular party. When engaged in discussion, the reason is that they have to "support their own".

Newsflash: We not in India and Africa any more... This is Trinidad and Tobago!

[STORM1234]

delete

[Advent]

ah swear i havent seen so much racists posts on fb from Indians ever.
"indians go suffer now" "fella prime minister" "kamla voted out because she indian" etc etc

so how come she get in? is this year-based racism?

you asking me
but ent we have seasonal racism ( election time) so why not yearly too

[Freak]

I agree with OP.
Grew up in a middle income home, father worked for a private industry and change in govt really never affected us, change in economy maybe, but as good parents during that time they banned their belly and ensured we had what we needed to survive.
Now for me is the same who ever is in power doesnt affect me, once they have the country's interest at heart and set policies that can develop a country of so much natural talent and resources, for to long this has not happened. What does affect me is when you have to read about blantant corruption and the divide between the upper class and middle / lower class increasing. My personal opinion is for any country to prosper you need a strong and larger middle class. These are the people who allow the country to grow.

[Slartibartfast]

OP to answer your question, who is in power does not affect middle class families living on a salary that much. Here are the ways that I have see it to affect people depending on race.

It is easier to get a job. Indos could get ministry work easier when UNC in power and vice versa for PNM. Sometimes however, a place is so racially dominated that it is near impossible for someone of another race to get in.

Infrastructure is more likely to be installed/ upgraded if you live in a stronghold of the party in power and more likely to be neglected if you live in a stronghold for the opposition.

Therefore if you are a middle income salaried earner in an decent area you will be thoroughly ignored and life will go on as usual.

The people most affected are the rich or friends of those in power as we have seen with the UNC. Lots of new millionaires were made and current millionaires were multi-millionaires many times over thanks to corruption in our construction industry. A lot of indian owned contracting firms made a killing in the last two years alone. Several of those firms were incorporated after the UNC won the last election. Unlike Zoom Radar, I am talking from experience. Yes I have seen their articles of incorporation... well copies at least. I expect a different group of contractors to be at the forefront now and the boards of many state owned companies to be completely different within the coming year.

The other people greatly affected are the poor. The ones that depend on handouts and squatters rights. I'm talking about the die hards that would give up an entire day for some free KFC at 10 in the night and a little see jink (almost had to wait on 2 big bus loads of UNC supporters to get my shiddy lil 2 piece with sufferer biscuits). I'll be honest, I haven't given this one as much thought so someone will most likely prove me wrong. But it looks like they find ways to target the handouts to their voter base. It could be by paving roads and developing squatter areas that are racially similar to their party or handing out of HDC houses or work (like CEPEP) to them as well.

The sad part is that most work is now on a contract basis so middle class salaried workers are open to be affected like they never have been before. All they have to do is not renew your contract and claim "budget cuts" and you gone.

Eh Freak that's your scooby in the display pic there?

[make meh care]

We need people with a vision and have ambition

[toyolink]

The distrust that exist between the ethic groups in our country is a reality which must be understood before any meaning processes can be engaged to remedy this 'dysfunctional condition'.
Until we deliberately create an environment where we surface the negative 'drivers' and achieve a base understanding and respect for each other, the changes/tolerance necessary for us to live harmoniously (or something acceptable) will continue to elude us.
The point is simple......we are the result of generations of learned behavior.
Many countries are presently suffering from the same condition and the great USA is not excluded.

[Slartibartfast]

We need young patriots with vision and ambition.

Toyolink I fully agree with you. One thing that I have noticed over the past decade is that there is a lot less racism among the younger generations. I'm not sure if it is because the younger generations are becoming more and more educated on average, more exposed via the media or are just beginning to find a camaraderie in the common difficulties being faced by everyone, regardless of ethnicity, as the middle class continues to disappear. In some cases I have noticed older generations taking their cue from younger ones and begin to put the racism aside. I still remain a little hopeful for us as I have noticed a recent trend of tolerance spreading faster than racism.

I think things just seemed really bad this year because all of the closet racists came out in full force. Oh well yes, all you could do is continue to spread good vibes and hope for the best.

[Country_Bookie]

No government, pnm or unc, does much for the middle class. Apart from Dollar for Dollar which became GATE, and a few interchanges and highways, what has any govt in the last 20 years done to improve our standard of living?
The real issues the middle class face are high food prices, high costs of housing & high costs of raising children.

Food cards, HDC houses and baby grants were all given to the poor, but the middle class didn't benefit. I'm not saying don't help the poor, but do something for the middle class too.

[toyolink]

We need young patriots with vision and ambition.

Toyolink I fully agree with you. One thing that I have noticed over the past decade is that there is a lot less racism among the younger generations. I'm not sure if it is because the younger generations are becoming more and more educated on average, more exposed via the media or are just beginning to find a camaraderie in the common difficulties being faced by everyone, regardless of ethnicity, as the middle class continues to disappear. In some cases I have noticed older generations taking their cue from younger ones and begin to put the racism aside. I still remain a little hopeful for us as I have noticed a recent trend of tolerance spreading faster than racism.

I think things just seemed really bad this year because all of the closet racists came out in full force. Oh well yes, all you could do is continue to spread good vibes and hope for the best.

You may have hit on something which I have been giving some serious consideration ...I refer to it as the 'douglarisation of our national community'.
Actually,I belive the impact of mixed marriages and the off spring from same is probably facilitating a blurring of the lines of divisiveness.I however believe the more recent generations can be easily influenced by the older generations because their tolerance for differences isn't necessarily borne out off a deliberate philosophy nor complete understanding of the facts.
Really,the solution(s) will have come out of the belly of the new generations and this will require serious work and resolve on their part (the development of a new cultural paradigm).

[V2NR 3.0]

The distrust that exist between the ethic groups in our country is a reality which must be understood before any meaning processes can be engaged to remedy this 'dysfunctional condition'.
Until we deliberately create an environment where we surface the negative 'drivers' and achieve a base understanding and respect for each other, the changes/tolerance necessary for us to live harmoniously (or something acceptable) will continue to elude us.
The point is simple......we are the result of generations of learned behavior.
Many countries are presently suffering from the same condition and the great USA is not excluded.

What distrust are you talking about man ? - Its the older folks like yourself who propagate this non-sense. All people get along in this country - its the politicians that divide us by planting seeds of division on either side.

[japan-r-us]

What distrust are you talking about man ? - Its the older folks like yourself who propagate this non-sense. All people get along in this country - its the politicians that divide us by planting seeds of division on either side.[/quote]


You spoke like a bicycle rim there, sir
Finally someone talking facts and the reality in this rainbow country........

And the fools like uml,zoomrader and rasc and others, just fuels this ongoing epidemic of racial tension. While politicians laugh behind close doors, they are all friends at the end of the day,is just who could ( out do) who....eat,drink and be merry with fat pockets,while the common man fights each other.....

[teems1]

No government, pnm or unc, does much for the middle class. Apart from Dollar for Dollar which became GATE, and a few interchanges and highways, what has any govt in the last 20 years done to improve our standard of living?
The real issues the middle class face are high food prices, high costs of housing & high costs of raising children.

Food cards, HDC houses and baby grants were all given to the poor, but the middle class didn't benefit. I'm not saying don't help the poor, but do something for the middle class too.

The cost of building a house on flat land hasn't varied that much recently. Increases in material are still small when compared to the overall cost, and the steady labour rate.

The price of land however (approved/unapproved) is a different story. 1 lot of approved land in central appears to be going up by 100k every year. East/West corridor the prices are even higher.

What can the Government do? Impose a property tax on those who hold these parcels of land?

Those additional costs will simply get funneled right back to the purchaser upon sale. The slow rate of developing land with such a high demand means the buyer always loses out.

[lostboys crew]

True statements with regards to the benefits to the middle class citizens. Party financiers and big business men reap the benefits from political parties.Have a panda who financed the two parties this election said he doubt PP would win so he threw some dollars to the PNM camp also, for backup. So that couple of mil's he shared out he looking to double or triple that with contracts and payouts.

[matthewmazda]

Middle class no grants no contracts