TriniTuner.com  |  Latest Event:  

Forums

The party now start

this is how we do it.......

Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods

Trinispougla
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 803
Joined: August 19th, 2015, 12:18 pm

Re: RE: Re: The party now start

Postby Trinispougla » August 23rd, 2016, 11:04 am

bluesclues wrote:
Trinispougla wrote:Firstly, Bluesclues, the reason oil production fell was because the commodity of Natural gas was and is the bedrock of our economy, this started in the late 1970s and went on steroids in 1993 when Manning monetized our gas fields which took us out of the recession and brought a host of companies to the industrial estate. Oil production is low because it is not as big a priority as hydrocarbons. Secondly, petroleum(oil, hydrocarbons etc) actually contributes 45% of gdp, not 20%.


according to a recent report, the projections for 2016 place the energy sector at a 20% contribution.. down from 45%

https://www.google.tt/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 9880,d.dmo
y. Projections indicate that for fiscal year 2015-2016 the energy sector would only contribute roughly 20% to GOTT revenues, leaving the shortfall to be filled by non-energy sources.
In response to these developments, the GOTTT introduced a suite of new tax measures ( -Reduction of VAT from 15% to 12.5% to be applied to a widened base of items, - Increases in the
Business Levy and Green Fund Levy, Re-introduction of the Property Tax valued at 2009 levels and - an increase in the taxable allowance of Personal Income Tax to TTD75,000 among the
measure) aimed at boosting non-energy revenues. According to the CBTT, the reduction of the VAT rate to 12.5% but the widening of the base may cause an upward pressure on prices
with core inflation estimated at 3.5% and food inflation potentially registering double digits for 2016. As at October 2015 headline inflation stood at 3.5%, while core inflation jumped 50 basis
points to 2.5% reflecting the 15% increase in diesel and super gasoline prices announced in the most recent 2015/2016 GOTT budget. In addition to the measures listed above, the GOTT
has moved to revamp the tax collection agencies and processes in the country, however we view this as a medium term strategy with minimal benefits in the short term. With energy prices
projected to remain depressed over the medium term, coupled with the supply issues plaguing the local energy sector, the CBTT is projecting that the economy should contract by a further
1.5% in 2016. The declining economy, when coupled with a somewhat less accommodative monetary policy and increasingly austere fiscal policy stance should begin to impact consumer
as well as business demand in the latter half of 2016. We expect Trinidad and Tobago's external position to come under more pressure as falling energy prices have sharply reduced the
country's large trade and current account surpluses. While net Government debt is likely to remain below 25% of GDP, the CBTT projects that public debt is set to rise as a result of
increased government borrowing to finance projects. On December 24th 2015, Standard and Poor's (S&P) revised its outlook on T&T from stable to negative with the country's A rating
remaining unchanged. Trinidad and Tobago is currently rated Baa2 with a negative outlook by Moody's Investor Services, which is three levels below the equivalent S&P rating.


Thirdly, oil production rose to a high in Jan 2005, so it is incorrect to say that oil production has been falling since the 80s. See graph
https://www.google.tt/search?ei=F8G7V8q ... LcoY3mM%3A
It would be more correct to say that oil production has declined consistently since the July 2006, at least in its current dispensation.This is because you are looking at two different periods, when oil was king and when gas was king


it depends on your perspective, but the data im using is consistent with my choice of words. oil production has been falling since the 80s where in 1980 we were at 240,000bpd.

this chart should put the entire period into proper perspective.
http://www.indexmundi.com/energy/?count ... production

as you can see, the rise in oil production in 2005 is only a small and very temporary bump as the downtrend continued down to today where it is recorded at 72,000bpd in 2016. if we could show yearly increases in this area, im sure many investors will want to jump on board because they are seeing a pattern of progress they expect to continue.


.And for you to mention duprey and hart is strange. The country passed through billions of dollars in the past 5-10 years so much so that the last government could afford to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on needed infrastructure. If oil prices had not dipped this conversation would be quite irrelevant. As I said, the fact is that no government, neither this one or the last, in fact no government anywhere knew the effect shale oil and gas would have on the market.


deficit spending. the government borrowed more and if i remember correctly even raised the cap so that they can borrow more.

The effect those bonuses have on the economy is minute, almost inconsequential because it is not a large amount of people your dealing with.


no disagreement there, however if we take a tally of figures for say 10-15 years, we might be looking at enough money for petrotrin to afford to pull up it's own socks in difficult times and also reduce our government borrowing to keep the economy afloat. or even perhaps invest in it's own local drilling operation.

Fourthly, you cannot say that multinationals are taking advantage of the country. BP is staying in the country despite the downturn and has already found a field off mayaro. Saying that they are spending all the money before the government can access the funds is resorting to innuendo and bacchanal, you have no evidence of that except with one company, Accelor Mitral who is no longer here. BP and BHP have the equipment for deep water exploration that trinidad could never dream to afford.


i am just pointing out the 'coincidence'. it is just strange that by the data ive looked at for the past 5-6 years, when favourable conditions boost a company's sales and revenues... their production, profit margin or both decline and the company's growth seems stunted. in 2014 tcl report attributed it's negative growth, even though cement prices rose, to 'extraodinary expenses'. cement production also declined that year by 9%. im not saying they did anything illegal. if they did im sure our finance gurus wouldve picked up on it by now. but trinidad just seems.... unlucky.... in international business relations.

but at the end of the day, it is poor management decision to pay exhorbitant bonuses to the top level in times of a market price boost and not plan for when the market slumps. what goes up must come down.. it's gravity... and trading and markets arent immune to it's effects. management in such crucial state enterprises should be less short-sighted in it's expenditure.

The recession is as a result of our economy being reliant on one commodity, diversification is needed but whatever you have will supplement your income not replace it. When diversifying, especially in a technical field, the engineering part alone takes at least 2.5 years, then is the building phase and you finally MAY reap some profits after five years.


agreed, but just to give you an idea of how i think. yes, the goal is to supplement the income. but even so, i would set the goal above the bar so we would target diversification projects with the Goal of achieving enough revenues, that were we selling 0 oil, our economy would still stand. such projects and the ability for us to target niche markets in a global supply capacity do exist. one just needs to be aware and up to date with the goings on of the world with regards to business ventures. just one of the projects i have slated, is expected to generate as much as 4billion usd per year within 3-5 years.

But clues, you know de country by and large don't have de intellectual muscularity or training to seriously take on the challenge of a total transformation of the economy. How much young adults you here want to be researchers, to be innovators. The pace of life in tt dictates that you go to school, pass your exams and come out with a certificate so you can party and get a nice woman. We are over-contented here. I'm not saying that we can't get into software development, i think that would actually be an excellent venture, but look who we'll have to compete with, countries that are further ahead than us, de to structural adjustments in their educational system, like estonia or countries that make us look like pygmies, india, usa and brazil. My uncle builds programmes on the side, he managed to get serious traction with a couple. But to ask us to compete with those countries would be asking much unless we offer prices lower than india would be a stretch. As i said before, our autistic media try to plant seeds of panic in the populace to sell papers, one journalist went as far as to say that we would have a food shortage by june. Ridiculous! And really and truly, you cant blame them totally because that's what media houses, with the exception of Al Jazeera, specialize in. A student from uwi once told me we could build phones here,my question was and sell it to who? Agriculture and Agro-processing however is an area that i believe has not been fully explored. Trinidad produces the world's best cofee and we could seriously look into that, but personally, i don't see anything replacing oil and gas for a long time

User avatar
bluesclues
punchin NOS
Posts: 3600
Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:35 am

Re: RE: Re: The party now start

Postby bluesclues » August 23rd, 2016, 11:34 am

Trinispougla wrote:But clues, you know de country by and large don't have de intellectual muscularity or training to seriously take on the challenge of a total transformation of the economy. How much young adults you here want to be researchers, to be innovators. The pace of life in tt dictates that you go to school, pass your exams and come out with a certificate so you can party and get a nice woman.


i lolled. but you know what. nothing's wrong with that. trinidad could keep it's paradise mentality and culture, but we just have to be prosperous to go with it. it may not take as much as we think to transform the economy. we just have to take a little time to make sure we have completed our responsibilities efficiently when the end of the day come. not everyone has to have the intellectual capacity to negotiate and play ball with larger countries where the big business is for us. all we need is one or a few. our fearless leader and his competent cabinet of ministers.

We are over-contented here. I'm not saying that we can't get into software development, i think that would actually be an excellent venture, but look who we'll have to compete with, countries that are further ahead than us, de to structural adjustments in their educational system, like estonia or countries that make us look like pygmies, india, usa and brazil. My uncle builds programmes on the side, he managed to get serious traction with a couple. But to ask us to compete with those countries would be asking much unless we offer prices lower than india would be a stretch. As i said before, our autistic media try to plant seeds of panic in the populace to sell papers, one journalist went as far as to say that we would have a food shortage by june. Ridiculous! And really and truly, you cant blame them totally because that's what media houses, with the exception of Al Jazeera, specialize in. A student from uwi once told me we could build phones here,my question was and sell it to who? Agriculture and Agro-processing however is an area that i believe has not been fully explored. Trinidad produces the world's best cofee and we could seriously look into that, but personally, i don't see anything replacing oil and gas for a long time


well ur not the only one. the ideas and pathways to resolution of our economic situation may not be obvious to all. as i said.. out there.. sometimes u have to put 2 and 2 together and make something that wasnt there before. this is how u create niche markets and start grabbing market share before others start competing in your space. at such times, the startup and operational costs would be at their lowest again because ur starting before the market demand jumps in preparation and prediction of it jumping.

some areas can be expanded to simply, bring in more revenues. these areas are the areas where we already know we cant really compete internationally as u mentioned. but with a niche, u have few or no competitors so u get a head start in capturing market share but also the acclaim that comes with being one of, if not THE first.

as i mentioned though the areas i see working in tandem to generate significant revenues, lies within agriculture, toursim, local investment for export, foreign business policy adjustment, and hard line negotiations aimed at ensuring we meet our overall goals in foreign business agreements.

trinidad is a strong country. and i know what is holding us up while everything else is falling apart. people are still happy though noting things contracting around them. our standard of living hasnt changed much yet since all the calamity. and i can only hope it will persist until proper remedies are put in place.

and i mean.. imf or no imf. regarding this venezuela thing. countries follow imf guidelines and still bite the dust. there is a price to pay when that happens which is most likely why venezuela didnt want to pay much heed to them. but what im saying is, the imf, is not infallible in it's financial decisions either. they like anyone else, can.. misread market indicators, misinterpret data, misunderstand cultural adaptation. etc etc.

Trinispougla
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 803
Joined: August 19th, 2015, 12:18 pm

Re: RE: Re: The party now start

Postby Trinispougla » August 23rd, 2016, 1:49 pm

bluesclues wrote:
Trinispougla wrote:But clues, you know de country by and large don't have de intellectual muscularity or training to seriously take on the challenge of a total transformation of the economy. How much young adults you here want to be researchers, to be innovators. The pace of life in tt dictates that you go to school, pass your exams and come out with a certificate so you can party and get a nice woman.


i lolled. but you know what. nothing's wrong with that. trinidad could keep it's paradise mentality and culture, but we just have to be prosperous to go with it. it may not take as much as we think to transform the economy. we just have to take a little time to make sure we have completed our responsibilities efficiently when the end of the day come. not everyone has to have the intellectual capacity to negotiate and play ball with larger countries where the big business is for us. all we need is one or a few. our fearless leader and his competent cabinet of ministers.

We are over-contented here. I'm not saying that we can't get into software development, i think that would actually be an excellent venture, but look who we'll have to compete with, countries that are further ahead than us, de to structural adjustments in their educational system, like estonia or countries that make us look like pygmies, india, usa and brazil. My uncle builds programmes on the side, he managed to get serious traction with a couple. But to ask us to compete with those countries would be asking much unless we offer prices lower than india would be a stretch. As i said before, our autistic media try to plant seeds of panic in the populace to sell papers, one journalist went as far as to say that we would have a food shortage by june. Ridiculous! And really and truly, you cant blame them totally because that's what media houses, with the exception of Al Jazeera, specialize in. A student from uwi once told me we could build phones here,my question was and sell it to who? Agriculture and Agro-processing however is an area that i believe has not been fully explored. Trinidad produces the world's best cofee and we could seriously look into that, but personally, i don't see anything replacing oil and gas for a long time


well ur not the only one. the ideas and pathways to resolution of our economic situation may not be obvious to all. as i said.. out there.. sometimes u have to put 2 and 2 together and make something that wasnt there before. this is how u create niche markets and start grabbing market share before others start competing in your space. at such times, the startup and operational costs would be at their lowest again because ur starting before the market demand jumps in preparation and prediction of it jumping.

some areas can be expanded to simply, bring in more revenues. these areas are the areas where we already know we cant really compete internationally as u mentioned. but with a niche, u have few or no competitors so u get a head start in capturing market share but also the acclaim that comes with being one of, if not THE first.

as i mentioned though the areas i see working in tandem to generate significant revenues, lies within agriculture, toursim, local investment for export, foreign business policy adjustment, and hard line negotiations aimed at ensuring we meet our overall goals in foreign business agreements.

trinidad is a strong country. and i know what is holding us up while everything else is falling apart. people are still happy though noting things contracting around them. our standard of living hasnt changed much yet since all the calamity. and i can only hope it will persist until proper remedies are put in place.

and i mean.. imf or no imf. regarding this venezuela thing. countries follow imf guidelines and still bite the dust. there is a price to pay when that happens which is most likely why venezuela didnt want to pay much heed to them. but what im saying is, the imf, is not infallible in it's financial decisions either. they like anyone else, can.. misread market indicators, misinterpret data, misunderstand cultural adaptation. etc etc.

Bluesclues, in most cases the imf has helped most countries that have accessed the programme and have abided by the rules called targets set out. E.G Barbados experienced 1% growth in the last quarter after almost two years of recession. Jamaica is hoping to achieve 5% growth in the next five years. Turkey before isis destroyed some sources of revenue repaid their debts in 2013 and only went into recession this year because of terrorism. If you are thinking about greece, greece believes because it is the centerpiece of the Hellenistic civilization, it can bully countries into funding it. If you impliment the programme properly, you will see results. Even in tt, as novel as harmonization of gas was, it would not have been possible had the imf not stabilized the economy. The measures are harsh, overly so, imf economists are ultra conservatives. They not only tighten the belt, they tighten the throat which is why no one wants to go there and which is also why spending has been curtailed to the extent it has. Argentina was under an imf loan in the early 2000s and for several years, refused to introduce the measures and cut budgets which is why they remained there for a longer time than anticipated. Venezuela is burning because it refuses help, argentina had civil unrest because it refused to abide by the help being offered. Jordan is another imf success. Trinidad isn't anywhere that point and for a crediting agency to say parliamentary gridlock will get us thee is purely speculative and incorrect

User avatar
bluesclues
punchin NOS
Posts: 3600
Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:35 am

Re: The party now start

Postby bluesclues » August 23rd, 2016, 5:39 pm

Dont get me wrong. the imf has a pretty solid track record in it's assistance programmes across the globe. However, and yes, in greece, with hindsight, the imf published a statement saying that they underestimated the damage that austerity measures would do in greece when they recommended it.

Im just thinking that, being in a deficit is never a good place for a country to be. It is positioning oneself to be 'juxtaposed precariously'. And a country's leaders must be wise in it's application of austerity measures since, keynesian strategies for coming out of a recession have been coming under question. Mainly because of the history. Experts have observed that for one, the strategies push the harsh effects of an economic downturn to a further date. And that with each new recession cycle, the dips are larger and more difficult to get out of. The modern record also shows some countries, like iceland, chose to depart from keynesian recovery methods citing them as too harsh on it's citizenry. The measures they employed caused them to be one of the first countries to come out of the 2008 recession while the rest of the world struggled.

Im mainly referring to the claims of 'we married to the imf so we safe' as being overconfident in our reliance syndrome. Our goal shouldnt be to borrow from the imf. It should be to become debt free and run a surplus budget consistently.

Trinispougla
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 803
Joined: August 19th, 2015, 12:18 pm

Re: The party now start

Postby Trinispougla » August 23rd, 2016, 11:06 pm

bluesclues wrote:Dont get me wrong. the imf has a pretty solid track record in it's assistance programmes across the globe. However, and yes, in greece, with hindsight, the imf published a statement saying that they underestimated the damage that austerity measures would do in greece when they recommended it.

Im just thinking that, being in a deficit is never a good place for a country to be. It is positioning oneself to be 'juxtaposed precariously'. And a country's leaders must be wise in it's application of austerity measures since, keynesian strategies for coming out of a recession have been coming under question. Mainly because of the history. Experts have observed that for one, the strategies push the harsh effects of an economic downturn to a further date. And that with each new recession cycle, the dips are larger and more difficult to get out of. The modern record also shows some countries, like iceland, chose to depart from keynesian recovery methods citing them as too harsh on it's citizenry. The measures they employed caused them to be one of the first countries to come out of the 2008 recession while the rest of the world struggled.

Im mainly referring to the claims of 'we married to the imf so we safe' as being overconfident in our reliance syndrome. Our goal shouldnt be to borrow from the imf. It should be to become debt free and run a surplus budget consistently.

While it is true that to an extent that Keynesian economics has been questioned, it to my knowledge remains the only sure way to maintain fiscal stability. Most recently, the examples being used in my opinion are not good samples. Iceland and the USA have been touted as successful countries which came out of recessions without austerity by American and English writers and conversely, Greece has been seen as proof of the failure of austerity. However there have in recent times been two excellent examples of austerity leading the charge to recovery: Spain and Ireland. The Spanish financial crisis lasted from 2008-2015. The Spanish government was forced to institute strict reforms and cut back spending By 2015, the country had experienced 0.9% growth in the first quarter. The Spain example is the philosophy of Keynesian economics: strong,flexible yet sturdy financial institutions are the bedrock of a stable economy and stabilization must occur before any growth can take place. The Ireland situation is almost identical. This includes the property bubble that was taken advantage of. The Irish and Spanish authorities recognized the need for strengthening of institutions so that the corruption that hurtled them into recession could not take place again. Iceland and the USA took different roots and supposedly arrived at the same destination. Even iceland used a mix of austerity as it allowed its banks to fail and tightly controlled withdrawal of money. That being said, the less than harsh austerity measures iceland adopted could have worked for them, because they're tiny, less then 500, 0000 people. USA has simply pumped more money into the system and jailed the perpetrators of the financial crisis, hoping that it would dissuade crooks from taking advantage of the system. As you can see however from several recent scandals, the opportunity for ponzi schemes and the like are still around, the institutions have not been strengthened so the US recovery will last till the next insurance man decides to take risks. The IMF and world bank actually released a paper stating that the Irish and Spanish economies were now better equipped to handle economic shocks than the US. The countries that stated austerity but didn't continue, like Portugal and Greece are now in trouble. Well Greece not in trouble, Greece is a mess. TT should have applied some austerity measures after click to strengthen institutions but that bus pass so we'll have to take it now because we really don't want the IMF here

User avatar
bluesclues
punchin NOS
Posts: 3600
Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:35 am

Re: The party now start

Postby bluesclues » August 24th, 2016, 10:53 am

Before i reply.. is it possible u could tell me what sources have influenced the above opinions posted in you? Is it your own independent research which has guided you to these beliefs, the opinions of your peers, at home or at school or at work?

Trinispougla
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 803
Joined: August 19th, 2015, 12:18 pm

Re: The party now start

Postby Trinispougla » August 24th, 2016, 1:33 pm

http://www.worldfinance.com/home/it-wor ... y-measures
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... o-prosper/
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... nd-ireland
http://www.eagledailyinvestor.com/sweet ... austerity/
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article53098.html
http://www.worldfinance.com/infrastruct ... s-recovery
http://elpais.com/elpais/2016/03/15/ine ... 91799.html
https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/20 ... car081415a
https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/20 ... car081415a
And the irish government paid the political price for austerity, they were booted from office in 2016, February i think. Most of the criticisms you would see on the success of fiscal discipline in these three countries would come from krugman, an american dweeb and uk reporters. Austerity is hard and painful and TT hasn't even resorted to austerity because their is no need. Conversely, when corruption as seen in these three countries, threaten the survival of the state, hard painful decisions have to be made. It is not that austerity definitively means the destruction of the lower classes. That isn't so. Even Cuba, that has now gained access to foreign exchange a quarter century after the USSR's fall is having to institute controls on public spending. When the government is strapped for cash, realistically, it cannot be the bringer of good cheer and tidings to everybody. Even countries like Belgium, where people pay 42-45% of their salaries in taxes has been forced to cut public spending. And cutting public spending does not mean cutting services for poor people. You know cuba isn't going to touch their free education programme. Economics is not rocket science, we do it in our homes all the time, if you dont have the money you are accustommed to, you have to cut back somewhere. If Trinidad was not stabilized by 1991-2, there was no way monetizing our gas fields would have been possible. Greece is failing because they have only cut spending by 3%.
http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/yes-austerity-is-successful/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorf ... fc4894677c

User avatar
bluesclues
punchin NOS
Posts: 3600
Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:35 am

Re: The party now start

Postby bluesclues » August 25th, 2016, 6:23 pm

Trinispougla wrote:http://www.worldfinance.com/home/it-worked-spains-gdp-up-thanks-to-austerity-measures
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... o-prosper/
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... nd-ireland
http://www.eagledailyinvestor.com/sweet ... austerity/
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article53098.html
http://www.worldfinance.com/infrastruct ... s-recovery
http://elpais.com/elpais/2016/03/15/ine ... 91799.html
https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/20 ... car081415a
https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/20 ... car081415a
And the irish government paid the political price for austerity, they were booted from office in 2016, February i think. Most of the criticisms you would see on the success of fiscal discipline in these three countries would come from krugman, an american dweeb and uk reporters. Austerity is hard and painful and TT hasn't even resorted to austerity because their is no need. Conversely, when corruption as seen in these three countries, threaten the survival of the state, hard painful decisions have to be made. It is not that austerity definitively means the destruction of the lower classes. That isn't so. Even Cuba, that has now gained access to foreign exchange a quarter century after the USSR's fall is having to institute controls on public spending. When the government is strapped for cash, realistically, it cannot be the bringer of good cheer and tidings to everybody. Even countries like Belgium, where people pay 42-45% of their salaries in taxes has been forced to cut public spending. And cutting public spending does not mean cutting services for poor people. You know cuba isn't going to touch their free education programme. Economics is not rocket science, we do it in our homes all the time, if you dont have the money you are accustommed to, you have to cut back somewhere. If Trinidad was not stabilized by 1991-2, there was no way monetizing our gas fields would have been possible. Greece is failing because they have only cut spending by 3%.
http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/yes-austerity-is-successful/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorf ... fc4894677c


i am familiar with Krugman. i have followed discussions and presentations from both the keynesian side and the austrian school side. if you knew anything about krugman is that he was a finance shill. these guys, when they tell you private companies arent interested in xyz.. thats exactly what you should go invest in lol. if you believe everything these guys say in the media then ur in bad shape because they dont believe it themselves. but theyve got an angle they will pitch in the media for private interests. theyre professionals like that. dont just trust the media pros blindly. look at the data.

for instance ireland since taking it's austerity measures, has seen a rise in unemployment. with 2011 reporting a 14% unemployment rate, which rose yearly to the current unemployment rate of 23.7%. this tells me that things arent so good on the ground for the citizenry. and then there is the adverse effect of a higher unemployment rate creating increased cost to government's social welfare programs.

spain has taken austerity measures but things are a bit different for them. a country like spain is counting on and happy for a lower oil price. this will reduce the goverment import bill and actually assist these countries out of recession just as much as an oil price increase would for us.

to say we havent taken any austerity measures i think is at least a little premature. increasing taxes is an austerity measure. since the 7% online sales tax looms at a time when the ttd has lost alot of value. this will further slow consumer spending. and can surely be categorized as an austerity measure. which really i think, is not the key to keynesian philosophy. Keynes, at the root of his philosophy, merely identified the key contributors to gdp growth with aggregate spending being the most efficient driver. you want people to spend money, you want to generate sales and re-sales. ill get back to that. but reducing the vat rate by 2.5% while adding many more items to the import duty and vatable food lists, and removing the gas subsidy i would have to say also falls under austerity measures. added to which the government IS borrowing, so we are not seeing a reduction in government spending where austerity measures should have the goal of reducing the deficit.

looking at iceland you see a different picture. their unemployment rate steadily declined starting right after they took the decision to forgive public debt. besides that, consumer confidence has been steadily rising since then also. this is actually what keynes would have us achieve to facilitate aggregate spending and drive recovery. theyve done alot of good things for their citizenry including a massive reduction in food inflation from 30% to 4% since 2010. theyve facilitated consumer confidence and thus consumer spending and kept their economy's fundamental driver healthy and happy. on the other end of the stick was paid the price of profitable business in iceland for years, by increasing corporate taxes. so u see. government for the people. that is who the government should be seeing about. not punishing them for government's own mistakes and lack of oversight and foresight.

increasing government spending through major construction and other projects is the creation of false aggregate spending. all it means is that the books will look good in the reports but the man on the ground will be dying of thirst. reducing the vat rate and collecting much more through adjusting revenues in local gas sales(subsidy removal) will naturally increase np's profit margin giving government more taxable sale. meanwhile unemployment is rising and consumer confidence being tested from more than one angle. both the philosophy and the indicators suggest that this is the wrong way to use austerity and will be self-defeating. meaning we will be banning our belly, tightening our belts... for nothing.

government instead should facilitate competitive pricing by retailers and boost consumer spending with low food inflation, and instead of a jacked up public tax... a lowered import tax for corporate entities so that they can remain competitive with foreign retailers like amazon. that is not a rocket science approach. but when yuh badmind, for every little thing one do, yuh run to get the whip, while the next one getting away with murder. you would only think in this direction if you cared about the people u were governing.

Trinispougla
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 803
Joined: August 19th, 2015, 12:18 pm

Re: The party now start

Postby Trinispougla » August 25th, 2016, 9:46 pm

bluesclues wrote:
Trinispougla wrote:http://www.worldfinance.com/home/it-worked-spains-gdp-up-thanks-to-austerity-measures
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... o-prosper/
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... nd-ireland
http://www.eagledailyinvestor.com/sweet ... austerity/
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article53098.html
http://www.worldfinance.com/infrastruct ... s-recovery
http://elpais.com/elpais/2016/03/15/ine ... 91799.html
https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/20 ... car081415a
https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/20 ... car081415a
And the irish government paid the political price for austerity, they were booted from office in 2016, February i think. Most of the criticisms you would see on the success of fiscal discipline in these three countries would come from krugman, an american dweeb and uk reporters. Austerity is hard and painful and TT hasn't even resorted to austerity because their is no need. Conversely, when corruption as seen in these three countries, threaten the survival of the state, hard painful decisions have to be made. It is not that austerity definitively means the destruction of the lower classes. That isn't so. Even Cuba, that has now gained access to foreign exchange a quarter century after the USSR's fall is having to institute controls on public spending. When the government is strapped for cash, realistically, it cannot be the bringer of good cheer and tidings to everybody. Even countries like Belgium, where people pay 42-45% of their salaries in taxes has been forced to cut public spending. And cutting public spending does not mean cutting services for poor people. You know cuba isn't going to touch their free education programme. Economics is not rocket science, we do it in our homes all the time, if you dont have the money you are accustommed to, you have to cut back somewhere. If Trinidad was not stabilized by 1991-2, there was no way monetizing our gas fields would have been possible. Greece is failing because they have only cut spending by 3%.
http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/yes-austerity-is-successful/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorf ... fc4894677c


i am familiar with Krugman. i have followed discussions and presentations from both the keynesian side and the austrian school side. if you knew anything about krugman is that he was a finance shill. these guys, when they tell you private companies arent interested in xyz.. thats exactly what you should go invest in lol. if you believe everything these guys say in the media then ur in bad shape because they dont believe it themselves. but theyve got an angle they will pitch in the media for private interests. theyre professionals like that. dont just trust the media pros blindly. look at the data.

for instance ireland since taking it's austerity measures, has seen a rise in unemployment. with 2011 reporting a 14% unemployment rate, which rose yearly to the current unemployment rate of 23.7%. this tells me that things arent so good on the ground for the citizenry. and then there is the adverse effect of a higher unemployment rate creating increased cost to government's social welfare programs.

spain has taken austerity measures but things are a bit different for them. a country like spain is counting on and happy for a lower oil price. this will reduce the goverment import bill and actually assist these countries out of recession just as much as an oil price increase would for us.

to say we havent taken any austerity measures i think is at least a little premature. increasing taxes is an austerity measure. since the 7% online sales tax looms at a time when the ttd has lost alot of value. this will further slow consumer spending. and can surely be categorized as an austerity measure. which really i think, is not the key to keynesian philosophy. Keynes, at the root of his philosophy, merely identified the key contributors to gdp growth with aggregate spending being the most efficient driver. you want people to spend money, you want to generate sales and re-sales. ill get back to that. but reducing the vat rate by 2.5% while adding many more items to the import duty and vatable food lists, and removing the gas subsidy i would have to say also falls under austerity measures. added to which the government IS borrowing, so we are not seeing a reduction in government spending where austerity measures should have the goal of reducing the deficit.

looking at iceland you see a different picture. their unemployment rate steadily declined starting right after they took the decision to forgive public debt. besides that, consumer confidence has been steadily rising since then also. this is actually what keynes would have us achieve to facilitate aggregate spending and drive recovery. theyve done alot of good things for their citizenry including a massive reduction in food inflation from 30% to 4% since 2010. theyve facilitated consumer confidence and thus consumer spending and kept their economy's fundamental driver healthy and happy. on the other end of the stick was paid the price of profitable business in iceland for years, by increasing corporate taxes. so u see. government for the people. that is who the government should be seeing about. not punishing them for government's own mistakes and lack of oversight and foresight.

increasing government spending through major construction and other projects is the creation of false aggregate spending. all it means is that the books will look good in the reports but the man on the ground will be dying of thirst. reducing the vat rate and collecting much more through adjusting revenues in local gas sales(subsidy removal) will naturally increase np's profit margin giving government more taxable sale. meanwhile unemployment is rising and consumer confidence being tested from more than one angle. both the philosophy and the indicators suggest that this is the wrong way to use austerity and will be self-defeating. meaning we will be banning our belly, tightening our belts... for nothing.

government instead should facilitate competitive pricing by retailers and boost consumer spending with low food inflation, and instead of a jacked up public tax... a lowered import tax for corporate entities so that they can remain competitive with foreign retailers like amazon. that is not a rocket science approach. but when yuh badmind, for every little thing one do, yuh run to get the whip, while the next one getting away with murder. you would only think in this direction if you cared about the people u were governing.

Firstly, I am very familiar with Krugeman. Economic Advisor to Ronald Reagan, follower of Milton Friedman's school of economic thought. Friedman of Chicago Boys fame who opposed any form of fiscal control, who even had a problem with Chileans deciding to institute building codes in an area where severe earthquakes are common. So I know exactly where Krugeman is coming from, an area of total indiscipline which could only work in a country which was large enough and had enough clout to negotiate with creditors. The USA can afford to skip payment of loans simply because it happens to be the most powerful country on earth. A country in the so-called third world does not have that luxury, a fact which only the most foolhardy person would not accept. I am vaguely aware that Spain despite economic recovery still has a huge unemployment problem

User avatar
bluesclues
punchin NOS
Posts: 3600
Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:35 am

Re: RE: Re: The party now start

Postby bluesclues » August 26th, 2016, 5:39 am

Trinispougla wrote:So I know exactly where Krugeman is coming from, an area of total indiscipline which could only work in a country which was large enough and had enough clout to negotiate with creditors. The USA can afford to skip payment of loans simply because it happens to be the most powerful country on earth. A country in the so-called third world does not have that luxury, a fact which only the most foolhardy person would not accept. I am vaguely aware that Spain despite economic recovery still has a huge unemployment problem


Precisely... so knowing that, and also knowing that the inevitable crunch will come to america as well and their currency will eventually slide unless they can ACTUALLY RECOVER FROM DEBT... which now stands around 20 trillion dollars.. u know somehow, america is in default territory. Regardless of their strength, the fact that they arent leading the energy technology revolution will find them weakened also from reduced export demand.

I take it that uve seconded my opinion then, that trinidad is utilizing austerity in precisely the way that not only created the failure in the first place, but now, accelerates it for 3rd world countries like ours and wounds the fundamental driver of gdp growth. Consumer spending, is reduced by rpice inflation and dollar deflation which can be considered a tax. Considering a rised from an exchange rate of 6.5 to now, 7.5ttd:1 usd, we are looking at about a 15% 'hidden tax' that has be introduced across the board in blanket fashion. This is proven by the fact that wages have not been raised, so people will have to use a larger chunk of their earnings to maintain the same standard of living they did before out dollar started lsing value.

But again...

For years people have been talking about the rising usd exchange rate. I was around in the days when the exchange rate was $4.30. And since that rise to $6 people were talking about strengthening our dollar against the usd. Did government listen? No instead the embarked on massive spending programs and ran severely overpriced projects.

For years people have been complaining that we pay too much for imported items, and that it is unreasonable to expect and/or frce people to buy from local retailers at what is considered nothing short of 'robbery prices'. Do you work on their demands to bring down the overheads for the retailers so they can stay competitive? No, u facilitate a real estate bubble forcing retailers to pay exhorbitant rent fees and maintain a heavy taxing schedule at the ports of entry.

This is not the way to create or run a productive economy or society. It is not leadership. It is followership and bookwormism. It isnt applying ones knowledge to treat with the very specific and unique problems of a country, it is a regurgitation of an incorrectly interpreted philosophy, and suggests guessing. Because a country's leaders shouldnt need economic interpreters. They should, know their country's strengths and weaknesses, they should work to develop the country with loyalty to the success and thriving of it's citizenry being of paramount importance.

This, what pnm has been doing, what imbert has been doing suggests a lack of study and or understanding of basic economic management principles, making him imo, unfit for the position of finance minister.

Again trinidad should see an increased budgetary allocation to the agricultural sector fr diversification and production increases to fight the effects of food inflation. But it did not come in the last budget. Instead taxes were added to food, making it harder for the man on the ground.

I dont know who pnm economic advisers are, but they are seeing to it that the pnm is destroyed with these policies. As it shows them up to be a rather incompetent government, whose major contribution to economic management in at least the last 10-20 years is.. inflation.

Trinispougla
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 803
Joined: August 19th, 2015, 12:18 pm

Re: The party now start

Postby Trinispougla » August 26th, 2016, 11:54 am

I was not finished, as i said i am vaguely aware that Krugeman was Ronald Reagan's economic advisor and one of the chief architects of reaganomics. Do you know any system that was as damaging as the free trade, low tax components which almost totally changed the social fabric of the USA. At least with properly implemented austerity packages, the pinch is felt by everyone. Reaganomics killed small business.In the TT version of austerity,small business thrived.I had a friend that had so much work in Trinidad that he had to go to barbados to have an ease. Secondly, where do you get some of these figures, ireland's unemployment rate is nowhere close to 23.7%? In may it was 7.8%.http://www.businessworld.ie/news-from-i ... 64402.html. Unless between May 31 and August 25, the economy of ireland went into majestic free fall. To me, and i could be wrong, that is a success. This is a state that was on the verge of collapse in 2011. The current unemployment rate is expected to go down to 7.5%. Puerto Rico is another example of austerity gone wrong. Firstly, puerto rico is part of the USA, therefore cannot access any loaning agreements with financial agencies.As sad as it is, when puerto rico slashed some jobs, it managed to increase growth by 2.5%. The decision was not popular and the governor was booted out of office. To remain politically popular, the new governor increased spending and as recently as may, the country was forced to close 7 public schools in outlying areas. Puerto Rico is now in a situation where it cannot pay a 70bn dollar debt and has no means of financing projects because nobody does business with somebody who owes them money and is unable to pay. Spain has an unemployment rate of 22%, down from 27%, so progress is being made. If you are thinking of greece, greece had a debt problem since 2000, yet they decided to host an olympic games, one of the main reasons not even austerity can help them. The recession is not worse because of austerity, it is worse because greeks hid their debt for close to nine years despite concerns from other eurozone countries, especially germany. . As i said, austerity does not need to be very painful. http://voxeu.org/article/fiscal-consoli ... role-model. As i said before, at nausea, trinidad would not have been able to monetize our gas fields had the economy not been stabilized. You cannot invest if your economy is unstable Hoss, nobody was talking politics except you, of course the policies of the gov't is going to be unpopular, no country that went through a recession came out with the same government at the end except probably thatcher and that was because she out maneuvered her opponents. that is the reality, but in order for the country to survive. So gate supposed to remain as it is? Nigeria, one of the world's largest oil producers totally destroy their gas subsidy, yet tt should remain with ours. That make an iota of sense? CEPEP and URP supposed to remain in their current form? Locally produced food is still the same price in the supermarket and fruits and vegetables and the market has only gone up minimally because transportation costs went up.

User avatar
bluesclues
punchin NOS
Posts: 3600
Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:35 am

Re: The party now start

Postby bluesclues » August 26th, 2016, 1:27 pm

Ur spins are really getting out of wack now. Small business is not thriving in tnt atm. It is struggling to stay open, and cutting staff. That is, those that havent packed up shop altogether already.

U are and have been attributing positive benefits to austerity measures, which at first whack, u attempted to claim we were not even taking austerity measures. Now that is is clear and well clarified that we are, ur saying small business is thriving with the current austerity which is also a half truth .. at the very least.

End of the day however, the suggestion to place a 7% tax on online purchases for the general public, is so wack, that based on my knowledge of financial systems... the banks will simply say... it cannot be done. I mean, it can, but they will certainly need to get their programmers working on a whole new outfit that interfaces with user account classifications within the bank. Almost turning upside down the way they do business. And of course, as usual.. the proposed solution will FAIL at spurning local sales which are still expensive and uncompetitive. The choice between a 7% tax on online purchase or a 100% markup at the malls and stores is not a difficult one for consumers to make. It will not in any way... in any way whatsoever, encourage ppl to shop locally if they have the option of making their purchase online.

#bubblebusters

Trinispougla
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 803
Joined: August 19th, 2015, 12:18 pm

Re: The party now start

Postby Trinispougla » August 26th, 2016, 3:13 pm

Trinispougla wrote:I was not finished, as i said i am vaguely aware that Krugeman was Ronald Reagan's economic advisor and one of the chief architects of reaganomics. Do you know any system that was as damaging as the free trade, low tax components which almost totally changed the social fabric of the USA. At least with properly implemented austerity packages, the pinch is felt by everyone. Reaganomics killed small business.In the TT version of austerity,small business thrived.I had a friend that had so much work in Trinidad that he had to go to barbados to have an ease. Secondly, where do you get some of these figures, ireland's unemployment rate is nowhere close to 23.7%? In may it was 7.8%.http://www.businessworld.ie/news-from-i ... 64402.html. Unless between May 31 and August 25, the economy of ireland went into majestic free fall. To me, and i could be wrong, that is a success. This is a state that was on the verge of collapse in 2011. The current unemployment rate is expected to go down to 7.5%. Puerto Rico is another example of austerity gone wrong. Firstly, puerto rico is part of the USA, therefore cannot access any loaning agreements with financial agencies.As sad as it is, when puerto rico slashed some jobs, it managed to increase growth by 2.5%. The decision was not popular and the governor was booted out of office. To remain politically popular, the new governor increased spending and as recently as may, the country was forced to close 7 public schools in outlying areas. Puerto Rico is now in a situation where it cannot pay a 70bn dollar debt and has no means of financing projects because nobody does business with somebody who owes them money and is unable to pay. Spain has an unemployment rate of 22%, down from 27%, so progress is being made. If you are thinking of greece, greece had a debt problem since 2000, yet they decided to host an olympic games, one of the main reasons not even austerity can help them. The recession is not worse because of austerity, it is worse because greeks hid their debt for close to nine years despite concerns from other eurozone countries, especially germany. . As i said, austerity does not need to be very painful. http://voxeu.org/article/fiscal-consoli ... role-model. As i said before, at nausea, trinidad would not have been able to monetize our gas fields had the economy not been stabilized. You cannot invest if your economy is unstable Hoss, nobody was talking politics except you, of course the policies of the gov't is going to be unpopular, no country that went through a recession came out with the same government at the end except probably thatcher and that was because she out maneuvered her opponents. that is the reality, but in order for the country to survive. So gate supposed to remain as it is? Nigeria, one of the world's largest oil producers totally destroy their gas subsidy, yet tt should remain with ours. That make an iota of sense? CEPEP and URP supposed to remain in their current form? Locally produced food is still the same price in the supermarket and fruits and vegetables and the market has only gone up minimally because transportation costs went up.

You dont read before you type. When was the only time tt went under austerity since independence pray tell? Obviously it would be during the 80s dunderhead. You know all those figures you quote, 23.7% unemployment in ireland, trinidad production declining by 33%, unemplyment in spain going above 30%, starting to make sense you know

Redman
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10430
Joined: August 19th, 2004, 2:48 pm

Re: The party now start

Postby Redman » August 26th, 2016, 5:05 pm

bluesclues wrote:Ur spins are really getting out of wack now. Small business is not thriving in tnt atm. It is struggling to stay open, and cutting staff. That is, those that havent packed up shop altogether already.

U are and have been attributing positive benefits to austerity measures, which at first whack, u attempted to claim we were not even taking austerity measures. Now that is is clear and well clarified that we are, ur saying small business is thriving with the current austerity which is also a half truth .. at the very least.

End of the day however, the suggestion to place a 7% tax on online purchases for the general public, is so wack, that based on my knowledge of financial systems... the banks will simply say... it cannot be done. I mean, it can, but they will certainly need to get their programmers working on a whole new outfit that interfaces with user account classifications within the bank. Almost turning upside down the way they do business. And of course, as usual.. the proposed solution will FAIL at spurning local sales which are still expensive and uncompetitive. The choice between a 7% tax on online purchase or a 100% markup at the malls and stores is not a difficult one for consumers to make. It will not in any way... in any way whatsoever, encourage ppl to shop locally if they have the option of making their purchase online.

#bubblebusters


or they just get customs to handle the 7%...they already are geared towards charging vat etc on the value-with the invoice required.

Simple.

User avatar
bluesclues
punchin NOS
Posts: 3600
Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:35 am

Re: The party now start

Postby bluesclues » August 26th, 2016, 11:36 pm

What is the objective of the tax? Let me ask a different way.

What is the objective of the 7% online tax purported to be? Not to encourage ppl to buy local? So this policy is supposed to achieve that objective. It does not. It increases government collection of revenues but the important objective of facilitating increased aggregate spending remains untouched. Corporations and people bring a problem to the government. This is the solution they proposed and it doesnt even touch it. Instead it puts government in the position as competing with local retailers. It may well facilitate a reduction in our import bill as retailers and importers close. How will they compete with the equivalent of a 7% markup, when their minimum markup is 15-30% just to stay profitable, plus for vatable items, another 15% untop of that to make the final retail price.

We pay too much for stuff in trinidad and it's because government taxes us heavily at an average 30-50% in total vat and duties. When a retailer imports something that costs $600 and has to pay say $100 shipping, and 50% in taxes the actual cost is now $1000. Retailer hasnt even applied a markup yet on the item to resell.

But i know what they thinking. They thinking that since the corporate importers would be exempt from the tax that it will force them to be competitive by utilizing a markup of less than 7% to compete with government.

At this rate... ttd 14: 1 usd

We have alot of policies fostering slowed growth, increased unemployment and reduced consumer spending. The key drivers of our economy, of any economy are under attack here in trinidad. Fostering inflation. This is bearing in mind that everyone in trinidad has just suffered a 15% reduction in their salary with the tt dollar slipping from 6.22 to 7.5 to 1 usd. U have to see these things. That is a 15% reduction in purchasing power.

The kicker will be if they really collecting all this money to buy a choochoo train. Normal MO. Overpriced project, runs overbudget, doesnt get completed before the end of the term, and we back in doubledigit inflation with nothing to show for our sacrifices and heavy additional tax contributions.

Redman
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10430
Joined: August 19th, 2004, 2:48 pm

Re: The party now start

Postby Redman » August 27th, 2016, 7:03 am

The objective of the 7% is to increase the revenue capture from the online purchases while allowing the activity to continue.

User avatar
bluesclues
punchin NOS
Posts: 3600
Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:35 am

Re: RE: Re: The party now start

Postby bluesclues » August 27th, 2016, 8:08 am

Redman wrote:The objective of the 7% is to increase the revenue capture from the online purchases while allowing the activity to continue.


That is weird as it comes off the heels of business complaining that consumers are shopping online rather than locally and pleading with government to intervene. But ok, i did say before that if companies grow too large for the economy they should be allowed to downscale their operations. So yes i expect the import bill to reduce from this measure, not because consumers slow down their online purchases, but because business will have to import less and at a slower rate.

Next what do u do about services like websource. They make online purchases for consumers with their corporate creditcard. This would provide a corporate umbrella for consumers making online purchases and avoiding the 7% tax. Both at banking level and/or customs level. Instead they will pay the 3% fee websource charges on the purchase. 4% less than government's 7% fee.

What is the margin for failure of the initiative once consumers start seeking ways to reduce or avoid the tax altogether? And we know there are lots of ways.

Redman
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10430
Joined: August 19th, 2004, 2:48 pm

Re: The party now start

Postby Redman » August 27th, 2016, 8:45 am

That is weird as it comes off the heels of business complaining that consumers are shopping online rather than locally and pleading with government to intervene.


Why weird.
Biusness complains
GORTT taxes.
Volumes remain the same-Business will complain but GORTT will say we did something.

Its satisfying the pandering of a special interest group without killing the goose.
Business cant say anything without addressing their inefficiencies and corruption(under invoicing)


Next what do u do about services like websource. They make online purchases for consumers with their corporate creditcard.


While I dont use websource I will speculate -its a pass through fee like VAT. So websource will either be forced to pay 7% and eat it or pass it on.
The substance of the transaction IS an online purchase..as defined by the tax.


What is not being said is that the GORTT/BIR (not PNM/UNC) is improving its data collection and tracking.So we are evolving towards better tax capture and penalizing of the rule breakers.


What is the margin for failure of the initiative once consumers start seeking ways to reduce or avoid the tax altogether?


I would say 7% -since the GORTT would have very little cost in implementing and collecting.
So its almost totally profit.

And frankly almost everything I buy is from online sources-and that 7% makes no difference to my decisions.
So its will just be for them to collect. And I agree with the need to generate revenue from this segment as the downstream.

Local businesses have been built on the profit margins created from evading taxes where they can.
Those days seem to be coming to an end.

User avatar
bluesclues
punchin NOS
Posts: 3600
Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:35 am

Re: RE: Re: The party now start

Postby bluesclues » August 27th, 2016, 9:16 am

Redman wrote:
That is weird as it comes off the heels of business complaining that consumers are shopping online rather than locally and pleading with government to intervene.


Why weird.
Biusness complains
GORTT taxes.
Volumes remain the same-Business will complain but GORTT will say we did something.

Its satisfying the pandering of a special interest group without killing the goose.
Business cant say anything without addressing their inefficiencies and corruption(under invoicing)


Next what do u do about services like websource. They make online purchases for consumers with their corporate creditcard.


While I dont use websource I will speculate -its a pass through fee like VAT. So websource will either be forced to pay 7% and eat it or pass it on.
The substance of the transaction IS an online purchase..as defined by the tax.


What is not being said is that the GORTT/BIR (not PNM/UNC) is improving its data collection and tracking.So we are evolving towards better tax capture and penalizing of the rule breakers.


What is the margin for failure of the initiative once consumers start seeking ways to reduce or avoid the tax altogether?


I would say 7% -since the GORTT would have very little cost in implementing and collecting.
So its almost totally profit.

And frankly almost everything I buy is from online sources-and that 7% makes no difference to my decisions.
So its will just be for them to collect. And I agree with the need to generate revenue from this segment as the downstream.

Local businesses have been built on the profit margins created from evading taxes where they can.
Those days seem to be coming to an end.


That's crazy... government tax at the ports has been exhorbitant for years. 50% of the top of almost all imports.. and now u going to add 7% untop of that? Why do u think businesses resort to underinvoicing in the first place? Just to stay proofitable. Our tax collections have been massive in that segment, thus if the shortfall is not there where tax collection is concerned? Why tax it even more?

And in a case like mine.. i dont make online purchases.. i move assets into the country at 0 cost to the republic of trinidad and tobago. Because the cost to me is free. I Dont buy usd or use either of ttd or usd in my online transactions. Why, should i be taxed? There is no transfer of local currency into usd. Instead, for doing the right thing the right way, i am being punished. If ur aunty working and living in america give u a 100$ usd giftcard which she emailed to u. And u buy something for 100usd on amazon with it. The invoice cost comes down to $0 as the giftcard registers as a 100% coupon discount on the item being purchased. Why am i forced to pay import duties on this when the invoice value is $0. And rightly so as no 'money' was used in the transaction?

Trinidad's way of doing business is screwed, and because it has been and remains uncompetitive it will continue to suffer. Both locally and internationally. Other countries know how to keep their profits when doing business with us.. but we give away ours to 'encourage foreign investors'. If jamaica was like trinidad, tcl would bring home 2billion dollars.

U can only tighten the grasp around the necks of the citizenry for so long. If people want a change to the inefficient way that trinidad does business, they must eradicate pnm from the polls. This is all their doing, and their structure from 50years of policy making. The structure is destined to foster trinidads inevitable failure.
Last edited by bluesclues on August 27th, 2016, 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Redman
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10430
Joined: August 19th, 2004, 2:48 pm

Re: The party now start

Postby Redman » August 27th, 2016, 9:48 am

Steups-

User avatar
bluesclues
punchin NOS
Posts: 3600
Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:35 am

Re: RE: Re: The party now start

Postby bluesclues » August 27th, 2016, 10:05 am

Redman wrote:Steups-


Good intelligent response.

User avatar
bluesclues
punchin NOS
Posts: 3600
Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:35 am

Re: The party now start

Postby bluesclues » August 27th, 2016, 10:23 am

here is a picture of the device that pnm government facilitates and endorses the widespread use of

Image

it is used in ocular globe enucleation

Redman
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10430
Joined: August 19th, 2004, 2:48 pm

Re: The party now start

Postby Redman » August 27th, 2016, 10:29 am

Yes its a response fitting your post.

User avatar
bluesclues
punchin NOS
Posts: 3600
Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:35 am

Re: The party now start

Postby bluesclues » August 27th, 2016, 10:47 am

Redman wrote:Yes its a response fitting your post.


hardly.. when people in this country have to pay taxes on GIFTS just because they were sent from abroad. we are long past the threshold of 'reasonable taxation'. yet the only solutions that can come out of this government is 'more taxes'.

is this all trinidad has to offer in the leadership domain? that isnt leadership..pnm government could be replaced by a computer programmed to do the same thing.

Redman
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10430
Joined: August 19th, 2004, 2:48 pm

Re: The party now start

Postby Redman » August 27th, 2016, 11:18 am

Thats just your opinion.and a weak one at that.
you are justifying your opinion on taxation of online purchases by taking issue with the treatment of a GIFT.
and uh..."moving assets into the country at zero cost"
:roll: :roll:
Gifts would be a minor sector of the online purchases.

Also taxation of gifts is necessary cuz anything could be gift-and any gift is resellable for profit.
Also common-7% is hardly unreasonable.

and as per usual...everything ends up with you espousing your superlative powers and unique insight (and typically skewed) into all matters.

So yeah STEUPS.
:|

User avatar
bluesclues
punchin NOS
Posts: 3600
Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:35 am

Re: The party now start

Postby bluesclues » August 27th, 2016, 12:06 pm

Redman wrote:Thats just your opinion.and a weak one at that.
you are justifying your opinion on taxation of online purchases by taking issue with the treatment of a GIFT.
and uh..."moving assets into the country at zero cost"
:roll: :roll:
Gifts would be a minor sector of the online purchases.

Also taxation of gifts is necessary cuz anything could be gift-and any gift is resellable for profit.
Also common-7% is hardly unreasonable.

and as per usual...everything ends up with you espousing your superlative powers and unique insight (and typically skewed) into all matters.

So yeah STEUPS.
:|


so what? tax the gift when it is resold as is currently the case. we dont pay taxes on local gift. every minister that get gifted a house or car could tell u that. so why tax gifts from foreign? but that is a minor issue. have little to complain about as i pay 33% the cost others pay to import anything. my only objective is to point out how exhorbitant trinidad's taxation scheme is.. even if you do hide the figures in another area where they cant really be classified as a tax. the bottom line is consumers have less disposable income, reduced purchasing power, the same salary or losing their jobs. and so they cannot spend at the rate that we need to foster gdp growth through aggregate spending.

at the very least... dont tell me that these austerity packages are geared towards reviving the economy.. because theyre not. they do not fit the criteria for that in any way.

User avatar
bluesclues
punchin NOS
Posts: 3600
Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:35 am

Re: The party now start

Postby bluesclues » August 27th, 2016, 1:27 pm

Until we see a commitment from government to reduce spending with the aim of covering the deficit. And putting systems in place to facilitate more activity in the local retail sector thereby creating increased aggregate spending, which will lead to the creation of jobs, faster turnaround and even a reduction in crime. Then trinidad is totally divorced from the key elements, identified by Keynes, for fostering gdp growth and recession recovery. added to that, the austerity measures of significantly increased taxation is recommended for deficit recovery.

What is government's deficit recovery plan?

There is this laissez-faire promotion of 'ahh that debt is small ting allyuh doh beat up about that'

Well if is small ting... pay it off.

The 2016 mid-year review speaks about fiscal indiscipline? As is quoted from an imf statement saying though public debt is rising we are not considered to be in a crisis. And 'nonetheless, in recent years, taking into account the size of energy revenue windfalls, the country has Under-saved and Under-invested in its future.' Pg8 2016 mid year budget review.

I wonder if they know that the fiscal indiscipline they speaking about is GOVERNMENT'S fiscal indiscipline. IT Is Not the people fault u know? A mere 1.8billion dollars in consumer online purchases that occurs off and on added to a retail sector of an average 2billion in imports annually isnt at the heart of the matter.

It is government that has to cut it's spending to save. It is government that has to cut IT'S spending to recover from a deficit. Is not unc last administration fault alone!! This has been going on for more than a decade to when Manning was in power. Under whose administration saw to it that the price of everything in the country QUADRUPLED!

Allyuh not seeing this? Its the same policies. And they are destructive.

desifemlove
Trying to catch PATCH AND VEGA
Posts: 6964
Joined: October 19th, 2013, 12:35 am

Re: The party now start

Postby desifemlove » August 30th, 2016, 9:23 am

bluesclues wrote:With all that's been going on regarding the depreciating tt dollar. Now that we are approaching the beginning of the 4th quarter. the pnm government will be unable to delay the negative reports on the country's state of affairs much longer. But their report isnt what kicks things off. The report will come when it is already evident to the population, that the country is on a crash course with no driver or solution in sight.

What do i mean and what am i referring to?

Bad news this christmas. This christmas is going to be tough for many. The ether here is reporting a 33% slowdown of economic activity over the past month. And if this is maintained or continues to worsen, trinidad can expect a severe and significant increase in crimes of a violent nature.

There are many things at play here which is triggered both by our accumulated financial debt, and accelerated by the depreciating dollar. Duprey and Hart running off with 50bn dollars didnt help either. Surely we'd be in a better place as a country today if not for what they did while conducting business here. But on the heels of it all, finally comes the crunch, when the effects of a depreciated tt dollar will start weighing in in a way that it wasnt before. The cost of doing business for various importers is finally reaching the crescendo point, where consumers are chosing to do without or refusing to pay the demanded price for goods, citing them as too expensive.

Suppliers now run the risk of having their goods rot on their hands because noone will buy them at the price being asked. Thus, as is known of the system. One way or another, it will balance itself out. And if we cannot fix the hole in the bucket, well, suppliers will soon be forced to import at a much slower rate. This in itself, will reduce the rate of usd drain until our economy can find a fulcrum to rest on. But this issue of stagnating supply and deman is only half of the problem.

Unemployment will rise, as many businesses struggling to maintain their regular sales margins will choose to cut staff to compensate for the slower turnover. And if this christmas 12,000 government staff and more are sent home it will further not bode well for our economy.

Trinidads government's choice to feed corporate interest while ignoring the common man, the average worker and citizen taxpayer with the promise of a trickledown effect for wealth has gone awry. Did u receive your trickledown? Or are u still on hold? If ur still on hold then dont feel special, ur not alone. Most the entire populations interest is put on hold by these governments to feed into corporate interests. And look where it has gotten us. The people are always last! So last, that many times you are unable to get paid for work uve already done, investments uve already made, and untop of it, u have to fight and fight for what is owed to u.

When will this nonesense stop? When will the people of this country learn how to pick leaders? When will the people of this country become leaders themselves? How far down into this lizard hole must we go before we realize we need to be going in the other direction?

Ppl have supported government after government. Theyve supported the guidance and leadership of their parties, even blindly supporting the legislations and ideas put forward by their ruling party. It all seemed like a good idea at the time. They did their part to show their belief that that party, whichever one it was would be looking out for the peoples best interest. But instead, we witnessed the mismanagement of statefunds for the past 30 years, and every time the shyt hit the fan, you were put last. There was always something more important than you wasnt there? They didnt have money to give u for what you work for, but then bam, they ups and investing a tonne of money in some waste of time venture.

The man on the street is continually punished even in his support. So i ask you, why do u support your abusers? Have you fallen in love with the abuse? How is it that even now you allow them to have free reign without your supervision? What is the latest thing government is doing? Do u know? Did you call your rep to let him know what he better or better not do if he wants your vote next election?

We have been told to tighten our belts over and over. But it is also time for the people to tighten their grasp on what government is doing. Or NOT doing as the case may be. Because things will only get harder. We have already seen that this government, and the current father of our nation, is unable to solve problems without punishing his children... and then... the problems still didnt get solved. At least if we getting punished we shouldnt have to face the same problem after. But it just seems like trinidad is digging a hole to try and find hell at the center of the earth. Government works to reduce corporate expenses while raising all the expenses of the common man. You are the mules that must carry this country on your back while they enjoy the fancy liquors that give people prostate cancer. When will it end? When will you put an end to the manipulation and brainwashing you are under to call a spade a spade.

For the past 20 years at least our leaders have been weak, visionless, tired old brains, and some of us could well see the crash course trinidad was heading to since the early 2000s when no attenpts at diversification were made while oil was $100 a barrel. A price every economist worth his grain of salt could tell you was bubble territory destined to pop. Where was the foresight, and preparation? How many people have been clamouring for investment in diversified fields for export over they years and have been ignored by the government?

Yet today we see that the governments of the past made the wrong decisions to ignore the people, yet still look today, all your toys are taken away and you are punished for government poor choices and decisions on how to invest in ourselves.

You tell them what you want, they say no we have a better idea. Their better idea turns out to suck royal...and then they shirk the responsibility and tell you tighten your belt while they pad themselves to survive the financial crisis. Leaving you out on your arse.

Self serving government. That is what you vote for and that is what you get. Did u assume you were part of the self? Remove the gas subsidy, parliament probably all have free gas card to fill their tank with taxpayer money.... did u get one? There is your government of the people. The unc and pnm governments of self interest and self propogation.

What you all going to do now as things just start getting worse and worse, and government sit on their hands and let it happen without implementing a single solution, till we become like venezuela. Hell would have been discovered then wouldnt it.

This is a wakeup call. The streets you walk on are going to change this coming year. But starting as soon as september, we can expect to see a rise in violent crime as im sure even black market and shadow economies will be suffering the effects of a depreciated tt dollar. And if those account for 30%-50% of trinidad's general economy as some say, then it is surely as the saying goes..

The party now start.


Trinidad is backward.

people are not educated enough to see past race......

and PNM and UNC are both as bad, since both only does care about race, and come with plenty of hypocrisy. like both have hired friends and family. like both have given preference to favoured (note familial) contractors. Like both have been accused of racism, with evidence, in hiring.

what's more, the opposition take no responsibility for this recession, which doh make sense on many levels. but then the pnm doh say what they doing, only using "we ent got no money!" as an excuse.

this country is screwed and cursed, and best we does allow it to be a colony again.

desifemlove
Trying to catch PATCH AND VEGA
Posts: 6964
Joined: October 19th, 2013, 12:35 am

Re: The party now start

Postby desifemlove » August 30th, 2016, 9:39 am

i'm an economist, and it's a no brainer. the political cultrue of any country needs to be strong enough to facilitate development.

Look at how China has developed, or Japan Germany, or even countries that have had far worse issues than us like Rwanda. we ent had no genocide, but then it about a common drive and political cultrue. instead it's about race and who theif more or who is more corrupt. Rwanda has best ICT sector in Africa, and millions died there only about 20 years ago.

we have some good ideas. from an objective standpoint, even if one is staunch UNC till ah dead person, one has to say places like NAPA/SAPA, the twin towers, government campus, grand bazaar interchange, Pt. Fortin highway, were good projects. even UNC had a better idea for mass transit (bus) than PNM has (rail). but these are piecemeal.



ideas are one thing, but then t&T lacks the collective drive/will to enforce these changes.

User avatar
bluesclues
punchin NOS
Posts: 3600
Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:35 am

Re: The party now start

Postby bluesclues » August 30th, 2016, 10:11 am

Yes desi i agree. Each government has done at least some beneficial and completed projects. I dont think anyone in the whole country objected to the gb interchange. We were just concerned about the price. But say what. It finish. It works great. Tho i does still get lost on it and have do a set of driving around lol.

The major problem with unc is the letdown where they showed a lack of objectivity and impartial leadership. There was too much hand picking and favouritism where it didnt belong. And as much as i like to see a poor man or struggler rise from poverty to financial stability. Do it the right way. If u really want to help a family member invest in them out of your own pocket. Not taxpayers money. Because standards are not being met with the frenfren ting.

Advertisement

Return to “Ole talk and more Ole talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: trent and 221 guests