Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

[shake d livin wake d dead]

d last paragraph killing me

[hydroep]

"What really is the link between what one has and the property tax..."

Well a senator say if squatters have cable they could afford the tax. Sh!tkicker say to whom much is given much is expected. And on CNC3's mid-term analysis last night Conrad Enill basically say the same thing talking about a man who was complaining that his after tax profit gone from > $ 100M to < $ 75M.

Uncertainty is one thing but it's the apparent dishonesty in the approach people seem to have a problem with. On the one hand you're saying its based on physical attributes of the property and now it appears that will be qualified by an arbitrary assessment of one's wealth. When you look at who's in charge that's a justifiable concern...

[ProtonPowder]

Tax is based solely upon 3 factors

1) square footage of the house.
2)class of the house (executive, modern, standard, substandard, shack).
3)Band of the house. In each regional corporations there are high income or low income areas. So for example, a house in Palmiste would have a higher multiplier than a house on in Diamond or Esperance a few minutes away.

[zoom rader]

Tax is based solely upon 3 factors

1) square footage of the house.
2)class of the house (executive, modern, standard, substandard, shack).
3)Band of the house. In each regional corporations there are high income or low income areas. So for example, a house in Palmiste would have a higher multiplier than a house on in Diamond or Esperance a few minutes away.

Yup this tax was really an injun tax

[bluefete]

What papers is that?

Sunshine.

[shake d livin wake d dead]

Tax is based solely upon 3 factors

1) square footage of the house.
2)class of the house (executive, modern, standard, substandard, shack).
3)Band of the house. In each regional corporations there are high income or low income areas. So for example, a house in Palmiste would have a higher multiplier than a house on in Diamond or Esperance a few minutes away.

Yup this tax was really an injun tax

1% have some to pay as well

[matr1x]

How you sure the 1% paying?

[The_Honourable]

After prolonged debate in both houses of the parliament, the Property Tax Amendment Bill 2018 was passed in the Senate.

[ProtonPowder]

After prolonged debate in both houses of the parliament, the Property Tax Amendment Bill 2018 was passed in the Senate.

I wonder if the new return form in the schedule for this bill

[The_Honourable]

Property Tax is fair

THE idea that the Property Tax unfairly targets East Indians was refuted by surveyor and commentator Afra Raymond speaking to Newsday yesterday. At a recent Maha Sabha function, guest of honour surgeon Dr Dilip Dan alleged that the tax maybe being targeted at East Indians who had tirelessly toiled and saved to build their homes rather than squander their earnings.

Raymond however retorted that such a notion of an unfair taxation was an idea imported from the political right-wing in the United States and was not related to the Africans and East Indians of TT. He argued that as property is a store of wealth it should be taxed the same way as a business such as a travel agency into which a pair of business partners had invested their individual capital and was now generating revenues. Raymond made the point that property tax is not charged on capital value, but on rental value.

Lamenting that property tax has not been paid since 2009, Raymond said, "It is long overdue. The quicker they bring it the better."

Source: http://newsday.co.tt/2018/05/21/afra-pr ... x-is-fair/

[zoom rader]

Tax is based solely upon 3 factors

1) square footage of the house.
2)class of the house (executive, modern, standard, substandard, shack).
3)Band of the house. In each regional corporations there are high income or low income areas. So for example, a house in Palmiste would have a higher multiplier than a house on in Diamond or Esperance a few minutes away.

Yup this tax was really an injun tax

1% have some to pay as well

1% will most likely have their houses linked to their bussiness and pay less when they cook the books as a loss

[hong kong phooey]

Property Tax is fair

THE idea that the Property Tax unfairly targets East Indians was refuted by surveyor and commentator Afra Raymond speaking to Newsday yesterday. At a recent Maha Sabha function, guest of honour surgeon Dr Dilip Dan alleged that the tax maybe being targeted at East Indians who had tirelessly toiled and saved to build their homes rather than squander their earnings.

Raymond however retorted that such a notion of an unfair taxation was an idea imported from the political right-wing in the United States and was not related to the Africans and East Indians of TT. He argued that as property is a store of wealth it should be taxed the same way as a business such as a travel agency into which a pair of business partners had invested their individual capital and was now generating revenues. Raymond made the point that property tax is not charged on capital value, but on rental value.

Lamenting that property tax has not been paid since 2009, Raymond said, "It is long overdue. The quicker they bring it the better."

Source: http://newsday.co.tt/2018/05/21/afra-pr ... x-is-fair/

But who/what determines the rental value . the figures i seeing is crazy

[hydroep]

^Exactly, it's an arbitrary value made by valuators and the higher properties are valued the more money they make. Afra Raymond is not a surveyor/property valuator or something so?...

[88sins]

Property Tax is fair

THE idea that the Property Tax unfairly targets East Indians was refuted by surveyor and commentator Afra Raymond speaking to Newsday yesterday. At a recent Maha Sabha function, guest of honour surgeon Dr Dilip Dan alleged that the tax maybe being targeted at East Indians who had tirelessly toiled and saved to build their homes rather than squander their earnings.

Raymond however retorted that such a notion of an unfair taxation was an idea imported from the political right-wing in the United States and was not related to the Africans and East Indians of TT. He argued that as property is a store of wealth it should be taxed the same way as a business such as a travel agency into which a pair of business partners had invested their individual capital and was now generating revenues. Raymond made the point that property tax is not charged on capital value, but on rental value.

Lamenting that property tax has not been paid since 2009, Raymond said, "It is long overdue. The quicker they bring it the better."

Source: http://newsday.co.tt/2018/05/21/afra-pr ... x-is-fair/

But who/what determines the rental value . the figures i seeing is crazy

well yuh done know who eatin out a pnm anus already.
Assfra Rammond knows full well he is spouting nonsense, because the average homeowner derives zero income from it & bears all the expenses relating to it's upkeep.

[ProtonPowder]

For some of the statements here I can clarify.

Commercial rates are tied to the building, not to the business entity, and are higher than residential rates. Property taxes are not income taxes and cannot be written off if the business draws a loss in a fiscal year.

"Rental rates" are misleading. Yes we know that the majority of owners are not renting their properties. It is a 'potential rental value.' People could understand the basis of capital value even though they not selling their property, but somehow this confusing people.

[ProtonPowder]

^Exactly, it's an arbitrary value made by valuators and the higher properties are valued the more money they make. Afra Raymond is not a surveyor/property valuator or something so?...

It is far from arbitrary. And if anyone knows what they talking about, is Afra Raymond. The man owns his own valuation firm and is a recognised FRICS, which is an especially designated rank from the royal institute of chartered surveyors for people who spend years developing the field and contributing knowledge on a regional and global scale.

http://www.rics.org/tt/join/fellowship/ ... ellowship/
Alyuh suddenly acting like an expert is a fool because you disagree with him

[88sins]

For some of the statements here I can clarify.

Commercial rates are tied to the building, not to the business entity, and are higher than residential rates. Property taxes are not income taxes and cannot be written off if the business draws a loss in a fiscal year.

"Rental rates" are misleading. Yes we know that the majority of owners are not renting their properties. It is a 'potential rental value.' People could understand the basis of capital value even though they not selling their property, but somehow this confusing people.

but do you know why they chose to use the potential rental value as assessed by the state for this tax? I'll give u 3 guesses, & a hint. it have nuttn to do with the 'that is what they doing all over the world' excuse they would have you believe.

[ProtonPowder]

For some of the statements here I can clarify.

Commercial rates are tied to the building, not to the business entity, and are higher than residential rates. Property taxes are not income taxes and cannot be written off if the business draws a loss in a fiscal year.

"Rental rates" are misleading. Yes we know that the majority of owners are not renting their properties. It is a 'potential rental value.' People could understand the basis of capital value even though they not selling their property, but somehow this confusing people.

but do you know why they chose to use the potential rental value as assessed by the state for this tax? I'll give u 3 guesses, & a hint. it have nuttn to do with the 'that is what they doing all over the world' excuse they would have you believe.

Because rental values are easier to research than capital values, as they change more rapidly in line with economic conditions. Contrary to what you believe, is not politicians that did the academic work behind this, it is actual chartered valuers and professionals.

You might feel that you know, but I actually know.

The politicians have a mandate to implement, but they dont know what to implement. Is not the minister of energy doing seismic studies in the sea, and is not the health minister in the hospital delivery rooms.

[hong kong phooey]

For some of the statements here I can clarify.

Commercial rates are tied to the building, not to the business entity, and are higher than residential rates. Property taxes are not income taxes and cannot be written off if the business draws a loss in a fiscal year.

"Rental rates" are misleading. Yes we know that the majority of owners are not renting their properties. It is a 'potential rental value.' People could understand the basis of capital value even though they not selling their property, but somehow this confusing people.

but do you know why they chose to use the potential rental value as assessed by the state for this tax? I'll give u 3 guesses, & a hint. it have nuttn to do with the 'that is what they doing all over the world' excuse they would have you believe.

this is it "potential" my property tax is close to 9 thousand , i need to verify the value on my water bill and confirm. that mean if is 3% of the rental value then my rental is 250000 a year . at that value the government could rent my place from me and give me that money . how many people in trinidad could spend 1/4 million in rent for the year. so this potential is shite

[88sins]

Because rental values are easier to research than capital values, as they change more rapidly in line with economic conditions.

Correct

Contrary to what you believe, is not politicians that did the academic work behind this, it is actual chartered valuers and professionals.

on this, you are only half correct. & by that I mean that I know for a fact, those chartered valuers & professionals were given a mandate, that being, recommend the most flexible methods of valuation that are likely to net the state the greatest returns on the implementation of said property tax & allow for rapid & easier assessment increases.

You might feel that you know, but I actually know.

& there are people all over the place that in fact know more than you think you do, I suspect myself included.
For example, I happen to know for a fact that a certain small group somebody's have been eyeballing a certain somewhere for a few multi-billion dollar projects, specifically urban housing development (private sector investment) & expansion & traffic management. & I am very sure you don't have a clue as to whom these parties are. But I'll give you a hint, some are PNM, & some are UNC, & some are both.

[shake d livin wake d dead]

Watch this troll eh: which type of people own the huge 4 + bedrooms with ac and toilet in each room? What is the ratio of such ownership?

[meccalli]

Our house was a large family home at one point until everyone built up their own places, probably 16-18 rooms and just 3 of us live here.

[ProtonPowder]

For some of the statements here I can clarify.

Commercial rates are tied to the building, not to the business entity, and are higher than residential rates. Property taxes are not income taxes and cannot be written off if the business draws a loss in a fiscal year.

"Rental rates" are misleading. Yes we know that the majority of owners are not renting their properties. It is a 'potential rental value.' People could understand the basis of capital value even though they not selling their property, but somehow this confusing people.

but do you know why they chose to use the potential rental value as assessed by the state for this tax? I'll give u 3 guesses, & a hint. it have nuttn to do with the 'that is what they doing all over the world' excuse they would have you believe.

this is it "potential" my property tax is close to 9 thousand , i need to verify the value on my water bill and confirm. that mean if is 3% of the rental value then my rental is 250000 a year . at that value the government could rent my place from me and give me that money . how many people in trinidad could spend 1/4 million in rent for the year. so this potential is shite

Nobody's residential property tax will be 9k, not even them mansions in POS, palmiste or kamla house. You would be surprised to see the figures that working out

[ProtonPowder]

Because rental values are easier to research than capital values, as they change more rapidly in line with economic conditions.

Correct

Contrary to what you believe, is not politicians that did the academic work behind this, it is actual chartered valuers and professionals.

on this, you are only half correct. & by that I mean that I know for a fact, those chartered valuers & professionals were given a mandate, that being, recommend the most flexible methods of valuation that are likely to net the state the greatest returns on the implementation of said property tax & allow for rapid & easier assessment increases.

You might feel that you know, but I actually know.

& there are people all over the place that in fact know more than you think you do, I suspect myself included.
For example, I happen to know for a fact that a certain small group somebody's have been eyeballing a certain somewhere for a few multi-billion dollar projects, specifically urban housing development (private sector investment) & expansion & traffic management. & I am very sure you don't have a clue as to whom these parties are. But I'll give you a hint, some are PNM, & some are UNC, & some are both.

Nobody talking about future projects here, i dont claim to know about which highway extension going where and who land getting compulsory acquisitioned for millions more than they should. Consult my posts in the curepe interchange thread.

I am talking about the academic work behind determining rental bands and rates. Congrats on knowing some shadowy details though.

I proud for you

[The_Honourable]

Govt starts rolling out property tax measures

Less than two months after the Government has been given the all-clear to resume its property tax collection, the Ministry of Finance has embarked on an exercise to measure properties belonging to citizens who submitted their information.

Approximately 80 officers from two leading accounting firms have been hired to carry out the valuations over a three-year period. There are unconfirmed reports that they have been retained for a salary of $12,000 per month with a $4,500 travelling allowance.

However, members of the public are concerned about the level of secrecy surrounding the process. Although some people have started receiving calls from officers reportedly assigned to the Valuation Division wanting to schedule home visits, no public notices have been issued informing people that the process has officially started and what it would entail. Neither has any information been posted to the ministry's website.

At least three homeowners residing in El Socorro, Barataria, and Aranguez confirmed they had received calls but were unable to accommodate the officers as it was "too short notice."

The El Socorro resident said "I don't have a problem paying taxes but there is a principle via which they should be operating."

The woman questioned: "Why does there need to be so much secrecy surrounding this issue, especially given the crime situation now?"

Revealing her brother had been among those who initially submitted the information before May 22, 2017, the woman said they were caught off-guard when contacted and although they agreed, they later changed their minds after they began feeling "uneasy."

Homeowners were urged to submit property tax forms to any of the eight Valuation Division offices after Finance Minister Colm Imbert cited the Valuations Act of 2009, which empowers the Commissioner of Valuations to "require all land owners to submit a return and all supporting information."

Property owners were required to submit an assessment form and documents including a lease or deed, along with a utility bill, and their last land and building tax receipt. Some people, however, refused to comply with the instruction. A database has reportedly been compiled using the submitted forms and it is based on this, that citizens are being contacted.

'Ministry of Finance confirmed the process has started'

The woman said "I called the Corporate Communications Department at the Ministry of Finance to get more information and they confirmed that they had started the process of going out to measure homes."

Asked if a public notice had been issued, she said the worker indicated "They had not yet gotten all the relevant information from the Valuation Division to start publishing the public notices and would be unable to say when that process will start."

The woman said when she pressed the worker to say how the public would be able to identify these people, she was informed that they would be wearing jerseys which had not yet been printed, along with an identification badge.

The woman said she was told that homeowners were being contacted based on the submission of forms.

The Barataria homeowner recounted her experience on social media: "They called me about three weeks ago asking to come by to take measurements. I asked if all the information was given to you, why do you need to come to my property to take measurements?"

Confirming her property had been approved both by the Town & Country Division and the Regional Authority, the woman said she was told they needed "To make sure what we submitted is correct."

When the property owner challenged the worker to take up the issue with either division, she said she was never contacted again.

The woman is appealing to the ministry to "Tell me what is really going on!"

Another social media user responded "Not me! Anyone come calling and I don’t know you, I’m not answering. This place in a big mess, I not taking any chances."

Refusing to reveal where she lived, a third woman said "They called me and told me they were coming to measure the property. I got the name and identification number of the person who called and I verified that she was working at the Valuation Division.

"About seven of them came to my home and measured the perimeter of the house. They didn't come inside but asked questions about how many rooms, AC, bathrooms, finishings etc. They said they are creating a database of everybody's property but they aren't in charge of the taxes, obviously the information will be used to assess how much property tax you pay."

A word of caution from one social media user: "I hope you don't let anyone in/on your property until the ministry has issued some guidelines," while another wrote, "D Government operating like a thief in d nite, lol!

Efforts to get a response from Minister in the Ministry of Finance Allyson West were unsuccessful and calls to the ministry's Communications Department proved to be equally frustrating as officials were uncooperative. The contact number for the Valuation Division went unanswered.

State Free to Move Ahead with Property Tax

In March, High Court Judge Jacqueline Wilson dismissed the constitutional challenge of former UNC minister Devant Maharaj in a 22-page written decision, after he questioned the validity of the enforcement of the tax.

Maharaj had challenged the legality of the Commissioner of Valuations' decision requiring all property owners to submit a valuation return form, claiming it was illegal and infringed on his rights.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2018-05- ... x-measures

[zoom rader]

Injun tax continues

How much you all what to bet once you are deemed injun a higher rate will be placed on your head

[RedVEVO]

Injun tax continues

How much you all what to bet once you are deemed injun a higher rate will be placed on your head

Indians have 2 prominent assets .

Money and Education .

Education is most feared and more an asset .

They will try to take away the money via tax with no return or benefits.

Will "they" succeed ?

Never

[hydroep]

Gotta admit, this is kinda funny. A lot of people probably thought that by "being honest" and complying with Colon-in-Butt's directive they would "get away" from the hassle of being visited by valuation officials. To realize that their "good faith" may have been misplaced must have some of them angry and more than a little worried, especially if they weren't totally honest on their forms.

Govt starts rolling out property tax measures

..."Refusing to reveal where she lived, a third woman said "They called me and told me they were coming to measure the property. I got the name and identification number of the person who called and I verified that she was working at the Valuation Division.

About seven of them came to my home and measured the perimeter of the house. They didn't come inside but asked questions about how many rooms, AC, bathrooms, finishings etc. They said they are creating a database of everybody's property but they aren't in charge of the taxes, obviously the information will be used to assess how much property tax you pay..."

Source: http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2018-05-26/govt-starts-rolling-out-property-tax-measures

The lady has every right to be concerned. Questions about A/C and your finishings have nothing to do with the physical criteria allegedly being used to assess the property tax but are quite useful in gauging homeowners' wealth.

And to say they are simply "creating a database of everybody's property" is disingenuous because with so many properties to assess why waste time collecting useless information unless it were important to the process?

Whether they're using this to build up an overall picture of the class of people in an area or directly target certain homeowners her suspicions that it will be used in some form to determine "how much property tax you pay" is probably accurate.

[ProtonPowder]

Gotta admit, this is kinda funny. A lot of people probably thought that by "being honest" and complying with Colon-in-Butt's directive they would "get away" from the hassle of being visited by valuation officials. To realize that their "good faith" may have been misplaced must have some of them angry and more than a little worried, especially if they weren't totally honest on their forms.

Govt starts rolling out property tax measures

..."Refusing to reveal where she lived, a third woman said "They called me and told me they were coming to measure the property. I got the name and identification number of the person who called and I verified that she was working at the Valuation Division.

About seven of them came to my home and measured the perimeter of the house. They didn't come inside but asked questions about how many rooms, AC, bathrooms, finishings etc. They said they are creating a database of everybody's property but they aren't in charge of the taxes, obviously the information will be used to assess how much property tax you pay..."

Source: http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2018-05-26/govt-starts-rolling-out-property-tax-measures

The lady has every right to be concerned. Questions about A/C and your finishings have nothing to do with the physical criteria allegedly being used to assess the property tax but are quite useful in gauging homeowners' wealth.

And to say they are simply "creating a database of everybody's property" is disingenuous because with so many properties to assess why waste time collecting useless information unless it were important to the process?

Whether they're using this to build up an overall picture of the class of people in an area or directly target certain homeowners her suspicions that it will be used in some form to determine "how much property tax you pay" is probably accurate.

A/C and finishings used to distingush class of the house between modern/standard/substandard

measurements used to determine square footage

For modern, think large houses, architectured with special fabrications and mouldings, appears to be built by a contractor in one go. construction cost >1.5m estimated

standard: your average 1-2 storey concrete/red brick house, a/c or not, 2-4 br 1-2 baths

substandard: standards in severe disprepair or old buildings with mixed timber/concrete structure

[The_Honourable]

Finance Ministry sheds light on valuation roll process

The Ministry of Finance is seeking to clarify what it deemed to be “potentially misleading” media reports surrounding the population of the valuation roll.

In a statement issued on Sunday evening, the Ministry noted that it has hired 248 individuals for roles in field assessment, information technology and business operations in order to complete the process in a timely manner. These positions were reportedly advertised both in the daily newspapers and on the Ministry of Finance website. The Ministry said qualified candidates were shortlisted, interviewed and hired by the Ministry.

Meanwhile, members of the public were advised that only people who have submitted their contact information to the valuation division will be contacted. To verify the authenticity of any communication initiated by members of the valuation division, householders should request the name of the employee and the corresponding Identification number during the conversation. In response, the representative ought to provide the date of the visit and the Officers’ names in advance. All valuation officers must also present picture identification upon arrival.

Additionally, valuation division representatives are able to respond to request for authentication with the householders’ PIN (unique reference ID) once an address has been provided.

Effective May 24, 2018, all receipts issued to the public from the valuation division include unique PIN reference.

Earlier receipts may not have a PIN but members of the public can call the valuation division and verify their PIN by providing their address.

The valuation division can be contacted at 612-1715 ext. 8002, 8003, 8084, 8051 and 8054.

Source: http://www.looptt.com/content/finance-m ... ll-process