OWTU TO SERVE STRIKE NOTICE ON PETROTRIN

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Daran just say you couldn't afford to pay them nah. Lol @ stopped hiring. Joke hadda be on you cuz most of the engineers from North anyway.

Hire the engineers from Spain then.

[Daran]

Daran just say you couldn't afford to pay them nah. Lol @ stopped hiring. Joke hadda be on you cuz most of the engineers from North anyway.

Hire the engineers from Spain then.

Well truth is I pay them $14k out of UWI. But yea I also outsource too. And engineers from all over Trini man. South just over reprensenting in Mech Eng.

[Miktay]

The problem with a socialist style heavily unionized companies is that they make things harder for the private sector.

Case in point, I have stopped hiring engineers from south (not that most of them were any good really), because all they want is a cushy engineering job in the Energy sector (and there are a lot!) making 25k/mo.

The salary inflation and laziness caused by unionized industries is what makes our workforce so unproductive. I've recently been to Spain where their economy is in far worse shape that Trinidad (no oil), and there are top experienced engineers who will work hard and deliver results for salaries like 2000 euros a month. Aint know way you getting value for money like that in Trinidad.

While it iz true that many in T&T have an institutionalized entitlement mentality yuh cyar compare T&T with other countries just. so.

Spain iz inna depression. Plenty men will take anything to put food on the table.

T&T ent reach there. Not yet.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Daran just say you couldn't afford to pay them nah. Lol @ stopped hiring. Joke hadda be on you cuz most of the engineers from North anyway.

Hire the engineers from Spain then.

Well truth is I pay them $14k out of UWI. But yea I also outsource too. And engineers from all over Trini man. South just over reprensenting in Mech Eng.

You paying more than Petrotrin would for one straight out of uwi but blaming Petrotrin?

[Miktay]

brass pelotas...LKY on strikes...

[Redman]

Redress you realise that there is a lack of solution s from the pro strike other than...
We deserve it...and Redman is an idiot...while both may be correct...neither is relevant to a way forward...

I say give the union a farmed out block...and let them show how productive they can be.

Base the back pay on royalty concessions for oil produced.

Revenue neutral and productivity based.

Not sure if you read thru all the articles but the union has repeatedly said it is willing to try new arrangements in terms of shared management etc. Some of these articles are posted here I believe....thoughts?

So cede management to the Roget who couldnt deliver when oil was 100 but wants to strike with oil at 50???
when last has he delivered in a timely fashion???

Seriously though I think sharing management between the union and a politically appointed board is likely to just move this conflict to the board room..

Trintoc was dysfunctional as is Petrotrin -because the co is forced to carry a social/political mandate....as it stands NOW the board is doing whats right for Petrotrin only if its politic....

The board MUST be free of Union and Party political pressure in order to run properly

GORTT is an entity
Union is another entity
and Petrotrin is an entity....

Having the board of P comprised of members with allegiances to U and G means the board isnt loyal to P.

We need to have Petrotrin managed by an non political board that is focused on what Petrotrin needs as an entity.

Not a board that is USING Petrotrin to achieve political or union focused gains.

We will end up right here.

I say....Tender for a management contract that cedes operational control to an independent managment/holding co-for a % of the profits.
Let the GORTT have a majority shareholding.
with the union a % but also allow the union to run their own productive assets (blocks) as a separate biz.

This will keep ownership with GORTT but enable Petrotrin to be run as like a private entity-not a quasi political arm.
The union will be able to make a ton-2000 BOPD at $50 WTI will generate 36M USD per year
-local producers make about 25% of WTI EBITDA so thats 9M USD a year.
With concessions on the Royalties that could jump to 12-15M USD per year
what type of benefits plan can the union create,manage,EARN for its members with that kind of cash flow???

All the above requires $0.000 in outlay from Petrotrin.

So this will leave
BOD petrotrin on the hook to shareholders for the Performance of the co.NOT Corp Sole and the political control.
The shareholders collecting dividends and also aligned with Petrotrin in order to increase their shareholding value and dividends.
The union with shareholding AND a producing asset to allow them to earn as owners and operators.
Population wins cuz now we have Petrotrin running properly , and we not held as bargaining chips.
profits mean taxes.

[Joshie23]

I realize that a lot of usually sensible posters in this thread are misinformed.

Terribly misinformed. Then again, Trinidad is an extremely large echo chamber and everyone is a Noah, we always know everything. For example, an uneducated mechanic is smarter than the engineer who built the engine such that the first thing they do before installing your FU engine, is remove and fling away your thermostat because 'dem ting does cause ovaheatin'. Then again, if we all knew everything meh boys Devon and Ashook wouldn't have filed those missing persons reports.

If the lowest rung of the ladder is getting a base of 10k....in absolute terms...how bad can the rest of the workers be paid....???

As a group they are amongst the highest paid in the country..and this action will bring the house of cards that is Petrotrin and the economy down...

They cannot shut the plants down ...given the condition of the plants

Redman, kindly furnish us with your sources of information. Nothing too extravagant; a simple bar graph depicting and comparing the salaries of..mmm..let's say 15 of the according to you, top paying companies in Trinidad and Tobago (inclusive of King Petrotrin, of course), and for verification of authenticity, kindly attach pictures of the respective pay slips/stubs you've compared. You can take your time, we're in no rush.

[Redman]

There are links in this thread that indicate that:

1) Forbes places TnT oil and Gas workers as amongst the highest paid in the world...2000 USd per year lower than the highest.
2) Petrotrin President Hassanali indicated that Petrotrin workers are amongst the highest paid in TnT.
3) IOCL members are getting 80% less than Petrotrin workers, and they are striking-Guardian ran that story.


You dont need to be spoon fed to form your opinion...or do you??

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Redress you realise that there is a lack of solution s from the pro strike other than...
We deserve it...and Redman is an idiot...while both may be correct...neither is relevant to a way forward...

I say give the union a farmed out block...and let them show how productive they can be.

Base the back pay on royalty concessions for oil produced.

Revenue neutral and productivity based.

Not sure if you read thru all the articles but the union has repeatedly said it is willing to try new arrangements in terms of shared management etc. Some of these articles are posted here I believe....thoughts?

So cede management to the Roget who couldnt deliver when oil was 100 but wants to strike with oil at 50???
when last has he delivered in a timely fashion???

Seriously though I think sharing management between the union and a politically appointed board is likely to just move this conflict to the board room..

Trintoc was dysfunctional as is Petrotrin -because the co is forced to carry a social/political mandate....as it stands NOW the board is doing whats right for Petrotrin only if its politic....

The board MUST be free of Union and Party political pressure in order to run properly

GORTT is an entity
Union is another entity
and Petrotrin is an entity....

Having the board of P comprised of members with allegiances to U and G means the board isnt loyal to P.

We need to have Petrotrin managed by an non political board that is focused on what Petrotrin needs as an entity.

Not a board that is USING Petrotrin to achieve political or union focused gains.

We will end up right here.

I say....Tender for a management contract that cedes operational control to an independent managment/holding co-for a % of the profits.
Let the GORTT have a majority shareholding.
with the union a % but also allow the union to run their own productive assets (blocks) as a separate biz.

This will keep ownership with GORTT but enable Petrotrin to be run as like a private entity-not a quasi political arm.
The union will be able to make a ton-2000 BOPD at $50 WTI will generate 36M USD per year
-local producers make about 25% of WTI EBITDA so thats 9M USD a year.
With concessions on the Royalties that could jump to 12-15M USD per year
what type of benefits plan can the union create,manage,EARN for its members with that kind of cash flow???

All the above requires $0.000 in outlay from Petrotrin.

So this will leave
BOD petrotrin on the hook to shareholders for the Performance of the co.NOT Corp Sole and the political control.
The shareholders collecting dividends and also aligned with Petrotrin in order to increase their shareholding value and dividends.
The union with shareholding AND a producing asset to allow them to earn as owners and operators.
Population wins cuz now we have Petrotrin running properly , and we not held as bargaining chips.
profits mean taxes.

Me thinks you have a possibly slight bias against the union. Nowhere have you asked the same questions of management. I would also say ceding is too strong of a word yet it's the first one jumped to.

What do you expect Roget to exactly have delivered at the differing oil prices?

The rest of your post sounds interesting though even if a bit unrealistic.

[Redman]

you thinks wrong there pappi...
and this thread is on OWTU.
Hence the questions directed to the union...and not the chambers of commerce.

Sharing management means some one now has to give up control that they once had...

verb (used with object), ceded, ceding.
1.
to yield or formally surrender to another:

We have a board by one serially underachieving entity(GORTT)
and you think that sharing with another serial underachiever(OWTU) will be a good idea- .5+.5 cant equal 2.

If Roget was delivering the workers would be not have to strike...simple facts.

And to clear the air-I think the unions approach is wrong IN THIS INSTANCE.

I want a productive Petrotrin-I want a clean operation that isnt a synonym for corrupt self serving deals...at our expense.

Over the YEARS AND DECADES the union members have facilitated these practices as has management...
to think otherwise is delusional

Its unrealistic because people are to lazy to pursue the concept...but you tell me WHY NOT??

[Joshie23]

There are links in this thread that indicate that:

1) Forbes places TnT oil and Gas workers as amongst the highest paid in the world...2000 USd per year lower than the highest.
2) FORMER Petrotrin President Hassanali indicated that Petrotrin workers are amongst the highest paid in TnT.
3) IOCL members are getting 80% less than Petrotrin workers, and they are striking-Guardian ran that story.


You dont need to be spoon fed to form your opinion...or do you??

Redman, Redman..slow down. I asked for YOUR charts and documents. You said T&T oil workers..Petrotrin is the only oil company in Trinidad apparently. Check your friends in Guardian or Forbes or better yet call your boy Khalid, since they so reliably gave you the information. Oh by the way, is this the same Hassanali that along with his two executive partners allegedly executed a significant salary increase, thus triggering their own multimillion retroactive payments, adding insult to injury, in a time where they were saying 0-0-0 because Petrotrin was/is under significant financial strain??

I saw your post earlier about how to fix Petrotrin and it makes sense to some extent so I'm wondering if there is more than one person in charge of this account. By the way, I wouldn't even buy the Guardian to clean glass in my house, and I definitely didn't need to be spoon-fed to form that opinion.

[Redress10]

Try and not get to caught up with CNC3. I am pretty sure that their owners would like to get their grubby hands on Petrotrin for personal gain. Expect to see much more bias in the future with them trying to influence the population that Petrotrin should be sold to the highest bidder etc.

[gastly369]

Daran just say you couldn't afford to pay them nah. Lol @ stopped hiring. Joke hadda be on you cuz most of the engineers from North anyway.

Hire the engineers from Spain then.

Well truth is I pay them $14k out of UWI. But yea I also outsource too. And engineers from all over Trini man. South just over reprensenting in Mech Eng.

You paying more than Petrotrin would for one straight out of uwi but blaming Petrotrin?

Defuq

Daran hire ah bedjin nah boi
7yrs 2nr experience

[pete]

That Forbes list showing that the average oil and gas worker in Trinidad makes 169k USD has nothing to do with Petrotrin other than maybe their offshore drilling campaigns (and even that I doubt).

[Redman]

There are links in this thread that indicate that:

1) Forbes places TnT oil and Gas workers as amongst the highest paid in the world...2000 USd per year lower than the highest.
2) FORMER Petrotrin President Hassanali indicated that Petrotrin workers are amongst the highest paid in TnT.
3) IOCL members are getting 80% less than Petrotrin workers, and they are striking-Guardian ran that story.


You dont need to be spoon fed to form your opinion...or do you??

Redman, Redman..slow down. I asked for YOUR charts and documents. You said T&T oil workers..Petrotrin is the only oil company in Trinidad apparently. Check your friends in Guardian or Forbes or better yet call your boy Khalid, since they so reliably gave you the information. Oh by the way, is this the same Hassanali that along with his two executive partners allegedly executed a significant salary increase, thus triggering their own multimillion retroactive payments, adding insult to injury, in a time where they were saying 0-0-0 because Petrotrin was/is under significant financial strain??

I saw your post earlier about how to fix Petrotrin and it makes sense to some extent so I'm wondering if there is more than one person in charge of this account. By the way, I wouldn't even buy the Guardian to clean glass in my house, and I definitely didn't need to be spoon-fed to form that opinion.

Yes same former hassanali.It was a 2012 article.-are you saying he is wrong??-please provide the same proof you asked me for. Thx.
And yes I think he could make a jail.Cuz that is just the tip of the iceberg....but he made the statement..and now one here has been able to show otherwise.

It is a discussion thread so you can feel free to show up to the same standards you expect of others the proof that Petrotrin employees are not well paid....same charts and graphs or whatever you asked for.

And its easy to say anything and suggest nothing-as you are doing.

[Joshie23]

This will come to a Redman vs. Me thread. As it pertains to the suggestions, I said I agree for the most part with your suggestion on how to repair Petrotrin, a few things could be tweaked but I agreed. Next, in terms of Mr. Hassanalis statement, one word-propaganda. At his level, swaying public perception of the Company is key, especially if yours is a political appointment, by people who had/have a vested interest in privatising Petrotrin. If you make a statement that Petrotrin workers are some of the highest paid workers yet still they're asking for more, obviously it looks greedy, thus tainting (even further) the public's perception of the employees. Thirdly, contrary to your statement, I never disagreed with the fact that Petrotrin employees make decent coin. The reason I asked for your charts is because you speak with authority as it pertains to Petrotrin employee's salaries which I ultimately equated with concrete knowledge that could be further corroborated by physical evidence.

[vaiostation]

This will come to a Redman vs. Me thread. As it pertains to the suggestions, I said I agree for the most part with your suggestion on how to repair Petrotrin, a few things could be tweaked but I agreed. Next, in terms of Mr. Hassanalis statement, one word-propaganda. At his level, swaying public perception of the Company is key, especially if yours is a political appointment, by people who had/have a vested interest in privatising Petrotrin. If you make a statement that Petrotrin workers are some of the highest paid workers yet still they're asking for more, obviously it looks greedy, thus tainting (even further) the public's perception of the employees. Thirdly, contrary to your statement, I never disagreed with the fact that Petrotrin employees make decent coin. The reason I asked for your charts is because you speak with authority as it pertains to Petrotrin employee's salaries which I ultimately equated with concrete knowledge that could be further corroborated by physical evidence.

I agree. I think people were too quick to jump on the idea of privatisation of petrotrin, especially the former unc energy minister who wants to give control of the company to certain "local entities". Also the fact that cnc3 actually showed the wages of workers for no logical reason other than to turn the public against the union. Cnc3 could have explained the issues that the workers have with the company and that politicians are the ones who keep interfering with the company's operations, but they didn't, because they know the people of Trinidad and Tobago are extremely gullible and easy to manipulate(just by looking at thread, you can see how people are misinformed). But I expect nothing less. I mean the Syrians don't own all these organisations and people for no reason, and they don't give the UNC and PNM money for charity.

Just don't be surprised if one day the government wants to privatise Wasa and t&tec...
Also just on a side note petrotrin isn't the highest paid in Trinidad and Tobago, BP actually have higher wages than petrotrin...

[vaiostation]

Try and not get to caught up with CNC3. I am pretty sure that their owners would like to get their grubby hands on Petrotrin for personal gain. Expect to see much more bias in the future with them trying to influence the population that Petrotrin should be sold to the highest bidder etc.

Agreed. Some people would love to suck this country dry of all its resources!!!
The sad thing is that they know people in Trinidad and Tobago ignorant... That's probably why politicians can easily manipulate the population.
I would have taught that after all these years people would have realised that the UNC and PNM are nothing more that different sides of the same coin, no different from each other and both have the same goal...

[psychokid]

They dont give the height bonus anymore and heat bonus is like for welders.
Overtime had stop for some time afaik.
Salaries look like before tax and the pension plan is a deduction, not an allowance.

You sir are the only man with common sense

[psychokid]

I don't know for sure about some of the actual salary figures but anyone else working Petrotrin here would have to treat that CNC3 report as a lil suspicious.....

You aren't paid by Job Title in Petrotrin ...you are paid by BU (OWTU Bargaining Unit) Grade level.

For eg. a permanent entry level engineer (mechanical, process, petroleum etc.) all start at BU 5
I have no idea what BU grade a cleaner falls under

Managers are paid under a different system not covered by the OWTU bargaining unit...its called Private Payroll (PP). They can be fired or hired on a whim and not covered under any OWTU 'benefits'

The CNC3 report is just to stir up negative emotions. Anyone working at Petrotrin knows this. It's standard procedure to publish salaries to make things look bad. The focus then will always be "look how much a laborer getting" or "waaays so much a cleaner getting". It's just base emotions being toyed with right thru. Easily I might add. Trying to have a discussion is basically pointless because minds have already been made up thru propaganda.

Truth x1000000000000000000

[Redman]

So how much does a cleaner get?
Or any other positions you deem relevant.

And shutting the country down and interrupting the lives of the entire population is some thing that will raise emotional responses.

That's the point..of Roget signaling this since before Xmas.


It's ok for OWTU to leverage that as a bargaining tool but no one else?

Smh..

[bushwakka]

Redman, u talk like u aspire to make sense.....but u fall short...

The OWTU is not going to grab up an oilfield and look to profit themselves because:

1. That would be defeating the purpose of having a union to represent oilfield workers in the industry....who then is going to represent the interests of the workers not in this 'union company' you have devised?

2. I daresay the majority of the OWTU lacks the skillset to manage operation of an oilfield i.e. they lack a lot of engineering know-how. Besides, isn't it just easier to have a sure 7-4 job in a state-owned company and just come to work for 2 hours (if at all)?

[Redman]

Uh The union is an entity that REPRESENTS the workers.
So there are people that work FOR the entity that is the union...in the process of representing the workers.

A Union can own something-buildings,cars,pencils and other assets.

So a block is awarded to XYZ co-shareholding of which is held by the union

Union runs it....any expertise they dont have -they hire-like every other company that ever existed.
(lets face it...some of the people operating blocks currently aint the brightest )

Surpluses redown to the benefit of the members.

Why is it that the union cant run their own operation.??..they seem to be very capable of advising Petrotrin...

and the union already make sterling contributions to the operations of the existing blocks..so that should be a suck eye venture.

[Miktay]

This will come to a Redman vs. Me thread. As it pertains to the suggestions, I said I agree for the most part with your suggestion on how to repair Petrotrin, a few things could be tweaked but I agreed. Next, in terms of Mr. Hassanalis statement, one word-propaganda. At his level, swaying public perception of the Company is key, especially if yours is a political appointment, by people who had/have a vested interest in privatising Petrotrin. If you make a statement that Petrotrin workers are some of the highest paid workers yet still they're asking for more, obviously it looks greedy, thus tainting (even further) the public's perception of the employees. Thirdly, contrary to your statement, I never disagreed with the fact that Petrotrin employees make decent coin. The reason I asked for your charts is because you speak with authority as it pertains to Petrotrin employee's salaries which I ultimately equated with concrete knowledge that could be further corroborated by physical evidence.

I agree. I think people were too quick to jump on the idea of privatisation of petrotrin, especially the former unc energy minister who wants to give control of the company to certain "local entities". Also the fact that cnc3 actually showed the wages of workers for no logical reason other than to turn the public against the union. Cnc3 could have explained the issues that the workers have with the company and that politicians are the ones who keep interfering with the company's operations, but they didn't, because they know the people of Trinidad and Tobago are extremely gullible and easy to manipulate(just by looking at thread, you can see how people are misinformed). But I expect nothing less. I mean the Syrians don't own all these organisations and people for no reason, and they don't give the UNC and PNM money for charity.

Just don't be surprised if one day the government wants to privatise Wasa and t&tec...
Also just on a side note petrotrin isn't the highest paid in Trinidad and Tobago, BP actually have higher wages than petrotrin...

Thiz and God's face we are unlikely to ever see....

[Country_Bookie]

So is 10% increase or strike:

Rynessa ‏@rynessacutting 3h3 hours ago
Roget: Strike on for Monday, unless we sign on the dotted line.
Union to meet with Labour Minister on Sunday.
@tv6tnt

Rynessa ‏@rynessacutting 46m46 minutes ago
Roget: Offer 10% for 2011-2014 and we will call off strike action. We will accept payment over a "reasonable period of time."
@tv6tnt

What exactly is a "reasonable" period of time to Roget tho?
Interesting that neither Rowley or Imbert getting involved here, they leaving Baptiste- Primus to take all the licks when the strike hits.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

OWTU Media Release: Strike to start at 10am on Monday 9th January 2017 if the offer of 10% increase is not met.

[tiger balm]

So is 10% increase or strike:

Rynessa ‏@rynessacutting 3h3 hours ago
Roget: Strike on for Monday, unless we sign on the dotted line.
Union to meet with Labour Minister on Sunday.
@tv6tnt

Rynessa ‏@rynessacutting 46m46 minutes ago
Roget: Offer 10% for 2011-2014 and we will call off strike action. We will accept payment over a "reasonable period of time."
@tv6tnt

What exactly is a "reasonable" period of time to Roget tho?
Interesting that neither Rowley or Imbert getting involved here, they leaving Baptiste- Primus to take all the licks when the strike hits.

Really?

Rowley should be used as the last throw of the dice
Imbert will have to approve the final amt agreed as MoF, so he shouldn't be opening his mouth now. Also, he's the acting MoE now, so.......

[De Dragon]

The privatize movement always gains traction when the Petrotrin/OWTU is where it currently is right now. It is usually based on people's frustrations with the unions seemingly intractable stances on wage negotiations. I mean 10 % or we strike is just that, an intractable situation. The GORTT offered 0 and the counter is 10, but with the strong-armed strike threat from the union. People are no longer willing to tolerate a loss making entity being so militant in negotiations, as the union again seeks to falsely paint the picture that the GORTT alone is responsible for the situation. If the first negotiating period is before the court, and the second period depends on that outcome, then why the strike threat?
We decry privatization because it will not allow the waste and low productivity to persist, not only at Petrotrin, but at any other money pit State institution. Maybe we'd rather go the way of Caroni/Mittal rather than seek our own best interests.

[hydroep]

Topped up just in case...seems to be business as usual at the moment.

[Miktay]

I dont blame either side...union or Big Gubbament...

Let them lock horns and see who iz the real baddis.

In the meantime...the avg man go hadda hold on...