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Why we even have an army??

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sMASH
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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby sMASH » June 25th, 2017, 5:15 am

I find they should have them mobilized for disasters...



On another note, we have too many persons in the police force force are more suited for army mentality... They can't think their way out of a cardboard box and have the social skills to match.

An army needs to operate like a machine; u input an instruction and get an output.

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby Redman » June 25th, 2017, 11:57 am

RedVEVO wrote:^^^

The Army - Regiment - have different divisions . So I do not see why they cannot assist with the flood situation .

It is the Army getting Police Power that is dangerous.



There are simple ways of separating the army function from the civil police function.

We should use them as a easy way to boost law enforcement presence in public spaces.

Joint patrols were a great start

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby RedVEVO » June 25th, 2017, 1:12 pm

Yes - I agree with Joint Patrols.

Do not give them "Police Powers." A country can become a Military State with insanity - it is how they are trained .

A few weeks ago there was a "Police Raid" and TT soldiers were stationed just outside BEG ( Beetham Estate Gardens) and they were strategically placed at different locations as a backup defensive unit - then way back they again were in action when they cleaned up a "gun dealer" at the same BEG location .

Gangsters do not mess with these soldiers since they know they mean business .

TTPS is too corrupt - There is no trust or cooperation to be had with TTPS -

Citizens do not trust the TTPS.

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby adnj » June 25th, 2017, 8:04 pm

Asking Our Soldiers to Do Police Work: Why It Can Lead to Disaster

Armed-forces personnel are trained to "engage and destroy," peace officers "to protect and to serve." Expecting young recruits to play both roles is expecting too much.

The soldiers' proverb that "it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by six" has recently gained new currency among American troops in Afghanistan. For combat soldiers, its meaning is clear: when in doubt, shoot first and ask questions later. While civilians may find this violent mindset shocking, it's important to recognize that we train our soldiers to, in the words of the U.S. Army's soldier's creed, "engage and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat."

From its very inception, the Unites States military has defended American interests by threatening and, if required, committing violence. In basic training, drill instructors bellow the question, "What makes the green grass grow?", to which new recruits respond by screaming, "Blood -- bright red blood!" and stabbing a dummy in the guts with a bayonet. This is how we train our warriors and how we have done it for over 100 years.


We train our troops to kill, equip them with the world's most effective weapons, and send them to war. Yet in many instances, our leaders then ask these trained warriors to serve as peace officers, a job that involves entirely different expectations and holds them to a different standard. There are special subunits within the military whose members are trained to play both cop and commando, but the very nature of name "special" demonstrates that this is not normal training.

Admittedly, "police actions" are nothing new to U.S. Armed Forces. President Harry Truman used that term to describe the Korean War. In Vietnam, the most notorious of American policing actions, generals (or presidents) declined to bomb certain targets for fear of provoking intervention from China and the USSR. But in Korea and Vietnam, these "police actions" were typically at the strategic level. In Afghanistan, the troops patrolling the streets are expected to both fight as warriors and serve as peace officers at the tactical level. The blurring of this distinction is not without consequences, as young men and women struggle to protect the same people they've, in some instances, been ordered to fight.

Take the example of Private First Class Edward Richmond, Jr., who in 2004 was providing security in a small village outside Kirkuk, Iraq, while his unit searched the village for high-level insurgents. Richmond's squad was tasked with providing security while the rest of the unit cleared the village (a cordon search mission). Richmond's squad leader, Sergeant Jeffrey Waruch, instructed the squad on its rules of engagement: "Shoot any males fleeing the village, but check with [the squad leader] if possible before firing."

When the operation began at daybreak, American soldiers heard gunshots and screaming in both Arabic and English coming from the security line. Richmond noticed a man leaving the city near his position.  Remembering his initial order, Richmond requested permission to engage the target. Waruch later testified that "Edward asked if he could shoot the man." Waruch ordered Richmond not to shoot the fleeing man and instead headed towards him, instructing Richmond to assist him in detaining the fleeing Iraqi.

As the two soldiers approached the Iraqi, he became agitated, and Waruch ordered him to put his arms up. As Waruch went to search the Iraqi, he directed Richmond to stand guard with his rifle ready. Waruch quickly patted the man down, looking for weapons and when he tried to pull his wrist down to handcuff him, the man resisted. Waruch told Richmond to point his weapon at the man and told him to "shoot him if he moves." At that point, the man stopped resisting and Waruch was able to cuff him.

As the two soldiers headed back to their perimeter with their prisoner, the Iraqi man tripped and stumbled into Waruch. Richmond shot one round, hitting the detainee. He later stated that the detainee had jumped at Waruch.

The Iraqi died as a third soldier came to the scene. Without knowing exactly what had happened, the third soldier looked at Richmond and said "you are f---ked." Richmond had been in Iraq for less than three weeks.

At court martial, Richmond was acquitted of unpremeditated murder, but convicted of voluntary manslaughter, sentenced to three years, demoted to private, and given a dishonorable discharge. This example demonstrates what happens when soldiers and marines are drilled to be combat killers and then asked to demonstrate the restraint of police officers.

Even more frustrating for his family is that Richmond was not even shown the same grace we allow to law enforcement officers in the United States when their good-faith use of lethal force turns out to be a mistake. According to the official standard currently followed by the FBI, the use of lethal force is deemed a "good shoot" when an "agent has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury to the agent or another person" -- even if that "reasonable belief" turns out to be wrong. It is simply unreasonable to hold soldiers serving in a war zone to a higher policing standard than that to which we hold actual police officers serving U.S. cities. 

In all fairness, the military has devoted considerable effort and resources to training troops on policing skills before they deploy, and it has tried to emphasize a culture of restraint among the ranks -- most prominent was the recent talk of a "Courageous Restraint Medal." But the idea was ultimately quashed when some in the military and media decried the mixed message it would give to troops in harm's way. ("You have the authority to kill because you are in danger, but please don't.") The change in training and the attempt to transform the culture is likely to have little effect when drill sergeants still walk the firing lines screaming "One shot, one kill" -- hardly an invitation to the kind of restraint in the field that we are now asking of our men and women in uniform.

Moreover, the police and military cultures are supposed to be vastly different (see"How the War on Terror Has Militarized the Police"). Soldiers use deadly force when confronting the enemy, and their weapons are their main tools in completing this objective.  Police officers, by contrast, are required to try to accomplish their missions without using weapons -- they are trained to exercise deadly force only as a last resort. The military uses violence as a means to an end, while a police officer draws and shoots only to protect himself/herself or others from violence.

There's also a reason that different populations are chosen to serve in each force. Police officers typically must be over 21 and many local police departments require at least an AA degree, recognizing that confronting complex situations on the street requires a certain level of maturity. In the military, by contrast, many soldiers are only 18 or 19 -- and in a platoon, even the lieutenant (the platoon leader/commander) may only be in his or her early 20s.

In wartime, our soldiers operate in an extremely chaotic and confused environment -- every civilian is a potential enemy, every window a possible sniper's nest. The police in U.S. cities (usually) confront a more comprehensible and structured situation -- no more than a few suspects, bystanders who are generally assumed to be friendly or neutral. At war, chaos and lack of structure make it even more difficult for our soldiers to be effective policemen.

Our military has done, and is continuing to do, an amazing job. Iraq and Afghanistan presented ever-shifting situations and our soldiers adapted too many changes on the fly. But our political and military leadership must more carefully examine the additional responsibilities that come with these new environments and understand the unprecedented pressures they're placing on our men and women in uniform.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/01/asking-our-soldiers-to-do-police-work-why-it-can-lead-to-disaster/251380/

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De Dragon
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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby De Dragon » June 25th, 2017, 8:23 pm

desifemlove wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
desifemlove wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
desifemlove wrote:that said, OP has a point. The army do sheit, and just lime, exercise, and don't even go on UN peackeeping. they should, regularly, if not to keep them battle-sharp. not sit around all day, legally teach Al Rawi's kids how to use guns and UNC MPs bitching, or dem chasing women all the time. i would do the same, if there was only exercises and nothing to help with.

People will laugh, but then they need to be a paramilitary body. Don't copy a UK/USA style structure, they have their tings for reasons, and we're a small island state compared to them. it's retarded bar mass emergencies to use the British Army for regular sheit, or the US Army if ting does go down. But they have that separation of powers for a reason, which doesn't apply to us.

Do tell us more Femmy S.C. ...........................

I'l tell you you're a fag, and not a man. like i dunno where this law says that people cannot judge you comes from...lol. so much for handling/boasting about big wuk, yuh cannot take back basic cuss on a forum without yelping "yuh ent know me bro!!"

That's the opinion I paying S.C. rates for? :? :?

it's the perfect response as to why "People cannot judge you", and you claim to be a grown man wit kids.

If your cocoloks had the ability to achieve an erection, then you could "claim" to have kids too :wink:

jl6106
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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby jl6106 » June 25th, 2017, 8:25 pm

Joint patrols is a panacea for a more serious problem.....Lack of effective management of the ttps. They allow the criminals to Do whatever and only respond after a situation as opposed to active patrolling.

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby jl6106 » June 25th, 2017, 8:26 pm

Placing the military to so frequently assist the police in doing their job has negative consequences for the military.

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby jl6106 » June 25th, 2017, 8:31 pm

Further, the military can only assist when it is asked to do so. Besides if you don't see them it doesn't mean they are not out helping.

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby RedVEVO » June 25th, 2017, 10:03 pm

De Dragon wrote:
desifemlove wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
desifemlove wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
desifemlove wrote:that said, OP has a point. The army do sheit, and just lime, exercise, and don't even go on UN peackeeping. they should, regularly, if not to keep them battle-sharp. not sit around all day, legally teach Al Rawi's kids how to use guns and UNC MPs bitching, or dem chasing women all the time. i would do the same, if there was only exercises and nothing to help with.

People will laugh, but then they need to be a paramilitary body. Don't copy a UK/USA style structure, they have their tings for reasons, and we're a small island state compared to them. it's retarded bar mass emergencies to use the British Army for regular sheit, or the US Army if ting does go down. But they have that separation of powers for a reason, which doesn't apply to us.

Do tell us more Femmy S.C. ...........................

I'l tell you you're a fag, and not a man. like i dunno where this law says that people cannot judge you comes from...lol. so much for handling/boasting about big wuk, yuh cannot take back basic cuss on a forum without yelping "yuh ent know me bro!!"

That's the opinion I paying S.C. rates for? :? :?

it's the perfect response as to why "People cannot judge you", and you claim to be a grown man wit kids.

If your cocoloks had the ability to achieve an erection, then you could "claim" to have kids too :wink:


ROFL ... :D :D

Or just maybe, it is lack of a "paramilitary body"

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De Dragon
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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby De Dragon » June 25th, 2017, 10:28 pm

RedVEVO wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
desifemlove wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
desifemlove wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
desifemlove wrote:that said, OP has a point. The army do sheit, and just lime, exercise, and don't even go on UN peackeeping. they should, regularly, if not to keep them battle-sharp. not sit around all day, legally teach Al Rawi's kids how to use guns and UNC MPs bitching, or dem chasing women all the time. i would do the same, if there was only exercises and nothing to help with.

People will laugh, but then they need to be a paramilitary body. Don't copy a UK/USA style structure, they have their tings for reasons, and we're a small island state compared to them. it's retarded bar mass emergencies to use the British Army for regular sheit, or the US Army if ting does go down. But they have that separation of powers for a reason, which doesn't apply to us.

Do tell us more Femmy S.C. ...........................

I'l tell you you're a fag, and not a man. like i dunno where this law says that people cannot judge you comes from...lol. so much for handling/boasting about big wuk, yuh cannot take back basic cuss on a forum without yelping "yuh ent know me bro!!"

That's the opinion I paying S.C. rates for? :? :?

it's the perfect response as to why "People cannot judge you", and you claim to be a grown man wit kids.

If your cocoloks had the ability to achieve an erection, then you could "claim" to have kids too :wink:


ROFL ... :D :D

Or just maybe, it is lack of a "paramilitary body"

Femmy is a pimply faced kid from South, who hangs out at Galactica all day, and tries to play man on 2NR otherwise. What he fails to realize, is that everyone has him made out. :lol:

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby uncle sam » June 25th, 2017, 11:40 pm

so basically the army hasn't done anything since 1990 (27 years). They should pretty much be given dometic training (or whatever you call it) and have them work like police officers.
what are they being paid for then? To wear big chain and pose with galil on facebook?

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby RedVEVO » June 25th, 2017, 11:47 pm

^^^

They are not been utilized - yet taxpayers pay a heavy tax to support their employment.

Like the PM Rowley - all talk , no utilization .

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby Redman » June 26th, 2017, 7:52 am

RedVEVO wrote:Yes - I agree with Joint Patrols.

Do not give them "Police Powers." A country can become a Military State with insanity - it is how they are trained .

A few weeks ago there was a "Police Raid" and TT soldiers were stationed just outside BEG ( Beetham Estate Gardens) and they were strategically placed at different locations as a backup defensive unit - then way back they again were in action when they cleaned up a "gun dealer" at the same BEG location .

Gangsters do not mess with these soldiers since they know they mean business .

TTPS is too corrupt - There is no trust or cooperation to be had with TTPS -

Citizens do not trust the TTPS.


But we have mechanisms to give limited civil police powers to civilians.
As a Precepted Officer a civilian becomes enabled with LIMITED powers of arrest,in addition other supporting authority.

The WHOLE private security industry is based on this.

SO we select 500 or so TTDF/TTCG/TTAG personell,
Precept them-and cross train them.
Rotate them through a 3 month on,2 month off scenario
On -they providing TTPS functions, off they back at TTDF etc

While they are on they will fall under the authority of the Commissioner...and can agree to be deployed as such,
Now possessed of the right training,limited authority, and suitably equipped.

Within 2 rotations, weed out the gung ho types and send them back to where they came from.

We now have 500 additional personnel with the right capabilities.

Cheap
Effecive
Fast.

When we done give them a medal, and send them back.

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby Redman » June 26th, 2017, 8:12 am

RedVEVO wrote:^^^

They are not been utilized - yet taxpayers pay a heavy tax to support their employment.

Like the PM Rowley - all talk , no utilization .


So people who have never been in an accident should not wear seat belts.

Having never been robbed, I shoul sell off the alarms and cams,and pull down the burglar proofing.


They are utilized, but they are also a huge resource that we can use more efficiently.

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby rollingstock » June 26th, 2017, 8:34 am

QuietGiant wrote:Serious thing, ent we army supposed to be out and around helping victims of hurricane, floods, natural disasters etc.?
From what i seeing nowadays, is only a set ah young fellas who join for rank, and to boast "we in d army" to gain respect cuz of dey uniform. Where they was during Bret? A country's army supposed to defend, they can't even begin to defend we if another country declare actual war on Trinidad. The police force is we only hope apparently.


The Engineering Battalion was on standby since Monday and fully deployed Tuesday morning.

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby 10-01 » June 26th, 2017, 8:39 am

rollingstock wrote:
QuietGiant wrote:Serious thing, ent we army supposed to be out and around helping victims of hurricane, floods, natural disasters etc.?
From what i seeing nowadays, is only a set ah young fellas who join for rank, and to boast "we in d army" to gain respect cuz of dey uniform. Where they was during Bret? A country's army supposed to defend, they can't even begin to defend we if another country declare actual war on Trinidad. The police force is we only hope apparently.


The Engineering Battalion was on standby since Monday and fully deployed Tuesday morning.


didnt see any of them in south for the pass week :?

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby adnj » June 26th, 2017, 8:59 am

RedVEVO wrote:They are not been utilized - yet taxpayers pay a heavy tax to support their employment.

Like the PM Rowley - all talk , no utilization .


Trinidad and Tobago Defense Forces cost 0.3% of GDP. The world average is about 1.5%. Even Venezuela and Jamaica spend about 1% of GDP, each. Saudi Arabia spends over 10% of GDP.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/apr/17/military-spending-countries-list

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby MaxPower » June 26th, 2017, 9:14 am

De Dragon wrote:
desifemlove wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
desifemlove wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
desifemlove wrote:that said, OP has a point. The army do sheit, and just lime, exercise, and don't even go on UN peackeeping. they should, regularly, if not to keep them battle-sharp. not sit around all day, legally teach Al Rawi's kids how to use guns and UNC MPs bitching, or dem chasing women all the time. i would do the same, if there was only exercises and nothing to help with.

People will laugh, but then they need to be a paramilitary body. Don't copy a UK/USA style structure, they have their tings for reasons, and we're a small island state compared to them. it's retarded bar mass emergencies to use the British Army for regular sheit, or the US Army if ting does go down. But they have that separation of powers for a reason, which doesn't apply to us.

Do tell us more Femmy S.C. ...........................

I'l tell you you're a fag, and not a man. like i dunno where this law says that people cannot judge you comes from...lol. so much for handling/boasting about big wuk, yuh cannot take back basic cuss on a forum without yelping "yuh ent know me bro!!"

That's the opinion I paying S.C. rates for? :? :?

it's the perfect response as to why "People cannot judge you", and you claim to be a grown man wit kids.

If your cocoloks had the ability to achieve an erection, then you could "claim" to have kids too :wink:



Hahahahhhhahha

IMG_5268.jpg

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby Gladiator » June 26th, 2017, 9:57 am

^^they should make that a sticky... mods?

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby maj. tom » June 26th, 2017, 10:08 am

^
classic closeted homosexual/confused tranny posting on a "female first" forum.
And then we see here constant disjointed, angry, paranoid rants that mean nothing. No one has a clue where this person getting these weird ideas about "big wuk," "judging me for posting an opinion," vitriolic attacks on other people's sexuality based on nothing but paranoia, everything is so disjointed.... then it had one time he posted a pic of two men on a beach and saying that's what he imagine some people are like in here attacking him... so gay btw...

I know it's sad, you're seeing someone in confused mental anguish and blaming everyone for his problems of not being able to communicate with other people, completely lacking social skills even on the internet. But it's awesomely hilarious! As long as desi doh trip and go the ISIS way and start stabbing up people on the street. That's generally how extremists come to justify these acts.

Now we await the very entertaining but very sad rants reply from the star-queen herself.
Last edited by maj. tom on June 26th, 2017, 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby Redman » June 26th, 2017, 10:13 am

Have to love tuner.

it takes real talent to turn a Question on National Security Policy into Desi coccolooks....in 2 pages.

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby nyronoel » June 26th, 2017, 10:20 am

uncle sam wrote:so basically the army hasn't done anything since 1990 (27 years). They should pretty much be given dometic training (or whatever you call it) and have them work like police officers.
what are they being paid for then? To wear big chain and pose with galil on facebook?


So wat u are saying is close down the army and train all of them the become police?

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby MrSennin » June 26th, 2017, 10:30 am

In before desi start to cuss people

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby MaxPower » June 26th, 2017, 10:52 am

Happy Eid desi

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby rollingstock » June 26th, 2017, 11:19 am

10-01 wrote:
rollingstock wrote:
QuietGiant wrote:Serious thing, ent we army supposed to be out and around helping victims of hurricane, floods, natural disasters etc.?
From what i seeing nowadays, is only a set ah young fellas who join for rank, and to boast "we in d army" to gain respect cuz of dey uniform. Where they was during Bret? A country's army supposed to defend, they can't even begin to defend we if another country declare actual war on Trinidad. The police force is we only hope apparently.


The Engineering Battalion was on standby since Monday and fully deployed Tuesday morning.


didnt see any of them in south for the pass week :?


They're there, but there function is not to assist households, the ODPM and local government is supposed to deal with that. The Eng. Bat. function was to clear access roads to installations to allow basic amenities to be returned.

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby Miktay » June 26th, 2017, 11:42 am

Coast Guard & Regiment are bred to fog up the place.

Dont deploy them to civilian areas either unless iza national emergency.

Peacekeeping iza different function. Thaz why we have TTPS.

Reg/CG ent good at peacekeeping.

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby 10-01 » June 26th, 2017, 11:51 am

rollingstock wrote:
10-01 wrote:
rollingstock wrote:
QuietGiant wrote:Serious thing, ent we army supposed to be out and around helping victims of hurricane, floods, natural disasters etc.?
From what i seeing nowadays, is only a set ah young fellas who join for rank, and to boast "we in d army" to gain respect cuz of dey uniform. Where they was during Bret? A country's army supposed to defend, they can't even begin to defend we if another country declare actual war on Trinidad. The police force is we only hope apparently.


The Engineering Battalion was on standby since Monday and fully deployed Tuesday morning.


didnt see any of them in south for the pass week :?


They're there, but there function is not to assist households, the ODPM and local government is supposed to deal with that. The Eng. Bat. function was to clear access roads to installations to allow basic amenities to be returned.


hmmmmm i saw Ap*n a contactor for the first time with 3 New 320 DL and new trucks on the prowl cleaning up ....

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby 10-01 » June 26th, 2017, 11:53 am

MaxPower wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
desifemlove wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
desifemlove wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
desifemlove wrote:that said, OP has a point. The army do sheit, and just lime, exercise, and don't even go on UN peackeeping. they should, regularly, if not to keep them battle-sharp. not sit around all day, legally teach Al Rawi's kids how to use guns and UNC MPs bitching, or dem chasing women all the time. i would do the same, if there was only exercises and nothing to help with.

People will laugh, but then they need to be a paramilitary body. Don't copy a UK/USA style structure, they have their tings for reasons, and we're a small island state compared to them. it's retarded bar mass emergencies to use the British Army for regular sheit, or the US Army if ting does go down. But they have that separation of powers for a reason, which doesn't apply to us.

Do tell us more Femmy S.C. ...........................

I'l tell you you're a fag, and not a man. like i dunno where this law says that people cannot judge you comes from...lol. so much for handling/boasting about big wuk, yuh cannot take back basic cuss on a forum without yelping "yuh ent know me bro!!"

That's the opinion I paying S.C. rates for? :? :?

it's the perfect response as to why "People cannot judge you", and you claim to be a grown man wit kids.

If your cocoloks had the ability to achieve an erection, then you could "claim" to have kids too :wink:



Hahahahhhhahha

IMG_5268.jpg


wtmc :shock:

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Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby desifemlove » June 26th, 2017, 1:10 pm

MaxPower wrote:Happy Eid desi


Eh? well you're a fag, and you'll tell me i cannot judge you. that's fine, i'll laugh at you and beat down your old arse in the process.

desifemlove
Trying to catch PATCH AND VEGA
Posts: 6967
Joined: October 19th, 2013, 12:35 am

Re: Why we even have an army??

Postby desifemlove » June 26th, 2017, 1:14 pm

MrSennin wrote:In before desi start to cuss people

they cuss me, i cuss back, it all good.

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