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desifemlove
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no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby desifemlove » August 7th, 2017, 6:01 pm

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/wo ... ols/scores

so then, what value do these unis have, and are they valued in the world?

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby 10-01 » August 7th, 2017, 6:37 pm

desifemlove wrote:https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2017/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/scores

so then, what value do these unis have, and are they valued in the world?


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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » August 7th, 2017, 8:01 pm

Isn't UWI's Engineering degrees Triple Accredited internationally?
In which case the actual University ranking shouldn't matter. UWI Degrees are supposed to be accepted anywhere in the world.
If you look at past exam papers for the Engineering degrees at UWI you will find it is on the same level as any top first world state University.

In Comparison UTT is more like A levels its nowhere near what it takes to get a degree from UWI.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby Redress10 » August 7th, 2017, 8:06 pm

desifemlove wrote:https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2017/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/scores

so then, what value do these unis have, and are they valued in the world?


That's a loaded question. UWI/UTT will never ever be on any of these lists simply because UWI/UTT isn't widely regarded worldwide. No one leaves from Saudi Arabia/ Australia etc to attain a degree from the University of the West Indies. They do for degrees in the UK, Europe and USA. Anyone who has ever been to a top university overseas would tell you that it is a life changing and eye opening experience. Those universities prepare you for global employment.

Now the funny thing is...University of London consists of London School of Economics, University College London, King's College which rank, 15, 25 and 36 globally.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby Redress10 » August 7th, 2017, 8:08 pm

Now this is why a lot of people on the board don't understand that a university degree is suppose to entitle you to gainful employment. I guess it stems from them being too exposed to UWI/UTT to really have a proper insight. I have a friend who just finished his MBA over at City University in London and now he's at Google. I wonder how many people with MBA's in Trinidad from ALGSB can boast of such career moves and opportunities?

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby Redress10 » August 7th, 2017, 8:11 pm

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:Isn't UWI's Engineering degrees Triple Accredited internationally?
In which case the actual University ranking shouldn't matter. UWI Degrees are supposed to be accepted anywhere in the world.
If you look at past exam papers for the Engineering degrees at UWI you will find it is on the same level as any top first world state University.

In Comparison UTT is more like A levels its nowhere near what it takes to get a degree from UWI.


Yeah but you still don't understand what that actually means. It means that your UWI degree would have to stand out apart from the other indigenous degrees in the other parts of the world. Say you are in London, do you really expect them to accept a UWI degree over Cambridge, Oxford, UCL, degree for instance? What if in that pile you also have Hong Kong, Stanford, Harvard and Yale as well? Do you honestly believe that a UWI degree would even be noticed in that instant?

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby maj. tom » August 7th, 2017, 8:31 pm

yes it's quite possible with work experience and luminating the interview properly. That's why there are interviews. Admissions/HR would accept the qualifications if they meet what they want.

Degrees are basic qualifications for the job. They don't always care about where you went (once it's accredited) or your GPA necessarily. The employer is going to ask about projects, research, work experience, innovative ideas, working with a team, problem solving, etc.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby Redress10 » August 7th, 2017, 8:55 pm

maj. tom wrote:yes it's quite possible with work experience and luminating the interview properly. That's why there are interviews. Admissions/HR would accept the qualifications if they meet what they want.

Degrees are basic qualifications for the job. They don't always care about where you went (once it's accredited) or your GPA necessarily. The employer is going to ask about projects, research, work experience, innovative ideas, working with a team, problem solving, etc.


Degrees are not "basic" requirements for the job. A degree from UWI may be but not a degree from a top global university such as Cambridge etc. Most people gain their first "real" job after university. That's why companies have programs designed to attract emerging graduates.

You do realise that those universities have amongst their alumnae world leaders and world beaters right? How many billionaires has UWI created? Zuckerberg(Facebook) and Evan Spiegel(Snapchat) are both ivy league drop outs. Getting the degree isn't the hard part, it's actually getting into schools such as Stanford and Oxbridge etc. Where do people who drop out from UWI end up?

UWI graduates doctors and lawyers etc yearly who find difficulty getting employment. Those "top" schools don't have those problems...Their graduates are globally employable. A stanford educated lawyer is employable in Europe etc. Can the same be said of a UWI graduate? Would Clifford Chance or Freshfields ever care to attract or recruit a UWI law graduate? Not a chance.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby bluefete » August 7th, 2017, 10:21 pm

http://www.webometrics.info/en/Americas/Caribbean

UWI - St. Augustine is ranked #1,849 globally (2017)
UWI - Jamaica is ranked #1,086 globally
USC is ranked 6,432 globally
UTT is ranked #6,979 globally
ALJ GSB is ranked #10,187 globally

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » August 7th, 2017, 10:24 pm

maj. tom wrote:yes it's quite possible with work experience and luminating the interview properly. That's why there are interviews. Admissions/HR would accept the qualifications if they meet what they want.

Degrees are basic qualifications for the job. They don't always care about where you went (once it's accredited) or your GPA necessarily. The employer is going to ask about projects, research, work experience, innovative ideas, working with a team, problem solving, etc.


Exactly! you hit the nail on the head.

The job requires say a BSc in Electrical Engineering, you bring your UWI degree and someone brings his University of London Degree. Both degrees are very highly accredited by the best bodies in the world. Say you have the better experience, you actually worked in the specific field and you fit the requirements that the other guy do not have there is a better chance that you will get the job with your UWI degree.

The most important thing is the accreditation that the degree comes with, UWI "engineering degrees" have triple accreditation from Canada, USA and Germany. There are many Universities in the USA that doesn't even have the kind of accreditation that UWI degrees have.

The actual University means little, which is why UTT likes to brag about their "university" being accredited but try to hide the fact that their Electrical Degrees won't even be accepted by T&TEC.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » August 7th, 2017, 10:27 pm

Also University ranking goes by stuff like "how satisfied the student was at the end of the program" a guy could fail or play the fool, get low pass score and claim its the fault of the University.

There is also the other ranking "how many graduates find jobs 6 months after graduating"

In Trinidad even Engineering graduates or medical graduates can't find a job because we simply do not have an economy to support the amount of graduates. This gives UWI an automatic downgrade even though it has nothing to do with them.

This is why the Degree Accreditation and Work Experience means everything, University ranking means little.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby bluefete » August 7th, 2017, 10:30 pm

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:This is why the Degree Accreditation and Work Experience means everything, University ranking means little.


Go tell that to Harvard, Yale, Cambridge, Oxford and others.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » August 7th, 2017, 10:38 pm

bluefete wrote:
EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:This is why the Degree Accreditation and Work Experience means everything, University ranking means little.


Go tell that to Harvard, Yale, Cambridge, Oxford and others.


I guarantee you if someone from Harvard with a Computer Science degree and someone from UWI with a Computer Science degree both go for a job interview. And the UWI graduate passes the programming test and the Harvard grad fails it the UWI grad will get the job. If the Harvard grad has no experience and the UWI grad has the experience the UWI grad will get the job.

This is not to say that Harvard, MIT and Oxford isn't the most recognized offcourse they are, very few on this planet will ever have the grades to enter those Universities.

Some of the best computer scientists out here right now have things like degrees in theater.

https://barryrountree.files.wordpress.c ... /vitae.pdf

This guy is one of the best Computer Scientists in High-performance computing, parallel debugging tools. He is better than most Harvard grads few can dream of coming close to him and his Bsc is in theater and his Phd is computer science from University of Arizona.

Experience and Skill beats a degree from the best University anyday, a degree is only a ticket to an interview to get past HR and every employer knows this.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » August 7th, 2017, 10:44 pm

bluefete wrote:http://www.webometrics.info/en/Americas/Caribbean

UWI - St. Augustine is ranked #1,849 globally (2017)
UWI - Jamaica is ranked #1,086 globally
USC is ranked 6,432 globally
UTT is ranked #6,979 globally
ALJ GSB is ranked #10,187 globally


Ranking has absolutely nothing to do with Degree Accreditation.

There are British Universities with ranks that blow UWI out of the water, yet their Degrees fail to meet the international accreditation of UWI degrees.

An IT degree from UWI is significantly better than an IT degree from Greenwich at SBCS, and Greenwich is ranked as what one of the top Universities in the world?. Go see how much math they teach you in that UOG degree and see how much math they teach you in the UWI degree. When you finish from UWI a simple IT degree qualifies you to be a programmer. Not the case with SBCS since programming is all about math and logic.

You all love to get carried away by fancy marketing. Things like University ranking and University Accreditation, go try to find out how much of their degrees are actually accredited and by who and see what happens.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby worksux101 » August 7th, 2017, 10:56 pm

Redress10 wrote:
desifemlove wrote:https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2017/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/scores

so then, what value do these unis have, and are they valued in the world?


That's a loaded question. UWI/UTT will never ever be on any of these lists simply because UWI/UTT isn't widely regarded worldwide. No one leaves from Saudi Arabia/ Australia etc to attain a degree from the University of the West Indies. They do for degrees in the UK, Europe and USA. Anyone who has ever been to a top university overseas would tell you that it is a life changing and eye opening experience. Those universities prepare you for global employment.

Now the funny thing is...University of London consists of London School of Economics, University College London, King's College which rank, 15, 25 and 36 globally.

It also consists of LSHTM, which won Times' Higher Education University of the Year, together with over a dozen others...that in and of itself is irrelevant...UOL is just a body of unis, so the clown comparing a UOL degree to UWI clearly doesnt know much...saying accreditation is what matters also shows both a lack of experience and knowledge on the subject.
UWI is rated poorly overall because they have many degrees that are rubbish performers - graduates from mthope, lok jak and geosci are considered fairly highly abroad. Because our system is utterly corrupt and poorly managed doesnt mean said persons would struggle elsewhere; they just choose to keep the comfort of home.
What keeps prestige prestigious is not just the quality of training but the discipline required firstly to get in and secondly to keep at the standard required...that is reflected in the willingness to help their own - the career departments in these schools find you the best of jobs, and it goes full circle whereby in the future you're likely to give someone from your alumnus a chance because you are familiar with the dedication required for their journey.
Comparing a degree given through a third party via distance programmes to a school's ranking is also quite silly, and why said programmes are rarely well regarded. Very few care about accreditation on the global job market - if you're good enough, you're trained to fit the bill. UWI eng students can have whatever accreditation theyd like to think they have - they struggle abroad unless they get scooped by a major company operating nearby (of which tnt has been blessed with many) who then train accordingly, which gives them a platform upon which to build. Rankings are also not focused on how many jobs are attained etc...these people arent stupd and cater for fluctuations in the job market...the quality of the work produced from graduates years down the line have a larger influence. Also, its not just the students' perception of the programme but the school's response that plays a large role. To discount these rankings and act as if they have no influence would be downright silly.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » August 7th, 2017, 11:03 pm

^ I am talking about Engineering and Science Degrees.

Off course UWI has garbage degrees I am fully aware of that. Offcourse they are dropping their entry requirements for a number of degrees that are not even accredited internationally. I have been very specific with my wording with regards to Engineering and Computer Science degrees from UWI, the engineering which are triple accredited.

My uncle did his PHd in Physics at Oxford using his UWI degrees to gain entry. Only a fool would think UWI is some sort of backwater 3rd world University. Just because some degrees are sheit at UWI doesn't mean all are.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby Redress10 » August 7th, 2017, 11:13 pm

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:
maj. tom wrote:yes it's quite possible with work experience and luminating the interview properly. That's why there are interviews. Admissions/HR would accept the qualifications if they meet what they want.

Degrees are basic qualifications for the job. They don't always care about where you went (once it's accredited) or your GPA necessarily. The employer is going to ask about projects, research, work experience, innovative ideas, working with a team, problem solving, etc.


Exactly! you hit the nail on the head.

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:The job requires say a BSc in Electrical Engineering, you bring your UWI degree and someone brings his University of London Degree. Both degrees are very highly accredited by the best bodies in the world. Say you have the better experience, you actually worked in the specific field and you fit the requirements that the other guy do not have there is a better chance that you will get the job with your UWI degree.

That's only if the job exists in Trinidad. Your Uwi degree isn't going to get a second look. They wouldn't care about accreditation etc. All they would care about is how "good" the university is. You do realise that the people granting accreditation would have been graduates of some of the best universities in the world and not uwi etc...They would favour what they know. Experience don't mean squat in that instance because you wouldn't have better experience than someone who went Oxbridge etc...Their career trajectory would be better than yours. They don't leave university needing a job. Most jobs and contracts are signed 2 years etc in advance. By second year, they already have an idea what company they going to work for and this is not "J and J and sons contracting", these are reputable organisations.

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:The most important thing is the accreditation that the degree comes with, UWI "engineering degrees" have triple accreditation from Canada, USA and Germany. There are many Universities in the USA that doesn't even have the kind of accreditation that UWI degrees have.

That means squat..That doesn't mean that they will look favourably on the candidate either. You may be using the term "university" lightly. If you realise with the rankings, not all "universities" in the USA made the list. We are not dealing with those ones. We are only dealing with the highly reputable ones.

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:The actual University means little, which is why UTT likes to brag about their "university" being accredited but try to hide the fact that their Electrical Degrees won't even be accepted by T&TEC.

Have you ever been inside of UTT? There is nothing to brag about there. What do you think UTT's endowment is? LMAO

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby Redress10 » August 7th, 2017, 11:17 pm

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:
bluefete wrote:
EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:This is why the Degree Accreditation and Work Experience means everything, University ranking means little.


Go tell that to Harvard, Yale, Cambridge, Oxford and others.


I guarantee you if someone from Harvard with a Computer Science degree and someone from UWI with a Computer Science degree both go for a job interview. And the UWI graduate passes the programming test and the Harvard grad fails it the UWI grad will get the job. If the Harvard grad has no experience and the UWI grad has the experience the UWI grad will get the job.

This is not to say that Harvard, MIT and Oxford isn't the most recognized offcourse they are, very few on this planet will ever have the grades to enter those Universities.

Some of the best computer scientists out here right now have things like degrees in theater.

https://barryrountree.files.wordpress.c ... /vitae.pdf

This guy is one of the best Computer Scientists in High-performance computing, parallel debugging tools. He is better than most Harvard grads few can dream of coming close to him and his Bsc is in theater and his Phd is computer science from University of Arizona.

Experience and Skill beats a degree from the best University anyday, a degree is only a ticket to an interview to get past HR and every employer knows this.


Are you insane? In what world is a UWI grad being hired before a Harvard grad in Computer Science field? In Palo Alto? What programming tests you talking about? To work at Facebook or something? How the UWI graduate even getting that interview? What brand of cool-aid are you drinking. The UWI grad not even getting hired before the Harvard grad here in Trinidad. You do know that there are National Scholarship winners who cannot find gainful employment here at home right....LMAO

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » August 7th, 2017, 11:21 pm

^ you do realize I am just using it as an exmple to show you that the being qualified doesn't just mean just simply having a degree from the best University, right? you do realize that some of the best programmers in the world never even went to a University and are entirely self taught, right?

I am simply pointing out that Experience/ Skill combined with a lower ranked University can often give you the edge over someone from a higher ranked university and less experience or skill, this isn't difficult to understand and it isn't rocket science.

Case in point is this guy Barry

https://barryrountree.files.wordpress.c ... /vitae.pdf

One of the best computer scientists in the world, few even from MIT and harvard can come close to him and he never went to any fancy University.

Infact the Father of the Intel Pentium chip came from a 3rd world University in India. He was hired by Intel after all the Harvard and Yale graduates failed to do the job, soo much for "fancy University means everything"

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby Redress10 » August 7th, 2017, 11:30 pm

worksux101 wrote:
Redress10 wrote:
desifemlove wrote:https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2017/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/scores

so then, what value do these unis have, and are they valued in the world?


That's a loaded question. UWI/UTT will never ever be on any of these lists simply because UWI/UTT isn't widely regarded worldwide. No one leaves from Saudi Arabia/ Australia etc to attain a degree from the University of the West Indies. They do for degrees in the UK, Europe and USA. Anyone who has ever been to a top university overseas would tell you that it is a life changing and eye opening experience. Those universities prepare you for global employment.

Now the funny thing is...University of London consists of London School of Economics, University College London, King's College which rank, 15, 25 and 36 globally.

It also consists of LSHTM, which won Times' Higher Education University of the Year, together with over a dozen others...that in and of itself is irrelevant...UOL is just a body of unis, so the clown comparing a UOL degree to UWI clearly doesnt know much...saying accreditation is what matters also shows both a lack of experience and knowledge on the subject.
UWI is rated poorly overall because they have many degrees that are rubbish performers - graduates from mthope, lok jak and geosci are considered fairly highly abroad. Because our system is utterly corrupt and poorly managed doesnt mean said persons would struggle elsewhere; they just choose to keep the comfort of home.
What keeps prestige prestigious is not just the quality of training but the discipline required firstly to get in and secondly to keep at the standard required...that is reflected in the willingness to help their own - the career departments in these schools find you the best of jobs, and it goes full circle whereby in the future you're likely to give someone from your alumnus a chance because you are familiar with the dedication required for their journey.
Comparing a degree given through a third party via distance programmes to a school's ranking is also quite silly, and why said programmes are rarely well regarded. Very few care about accreditation on the global job market - if you're good enough, you're trained to fit the bill. UWI eng students can have whatever accreditation theyd like to think they have - they struggle abroad unless they get scooped by a major company operating nearby (of which tnt has been blessed with many) who then train accordingly, which gives them a platform upon which to build. Rankings are also not focused on how many jobs are attained etc...these people arent stupd and cater for fluctuations in the job market...the quality of the work produced from graduates years down the line have a larger influence. Also, its not just the students' perception of the programme but the school's response that plays a large role. To discount these rankings and act as if they have no influence would be downright silly.


I wasn't going to list all UOL schools just the ones that were high up on the list. Those are the ones involved in the LLb degree etc that are offered here at home. It's common knowledge that UOL is just an umbrella term it isn't an actual university. I would know, I studied there.

"UWI is rated poorly because of rubbish degrees and rubbish performers"? Ha, do you honestly believe that when compiling these list, people actually consider UWI and its "rubbish degrees and rubbish performers?" LMAO

I think the graduates do well abroad because they are brilliant people. We have brilliant people here at home. I honestly believe that UWI as an institution is poor, both financially and academically. I am in no way saying that the people are not capable of performing once given the opportunity etc. It's the opportunity that may be lacking due to possessing only a uwi degree. Remember, you are competing globally, I know people with MBA's from OXbridge and it's been smooth sailing. I also know ppl who went ALGSB and they signing up for OJT.

The UOL degree programmes are not done through a "3rd party". Gate just made it appear so. The universities has no ties with local institutions. Their ties are only with the student undertaking the study. All students on campus and distance learning, study the exact same syllabus and sit the exact same exam at the exact same time. Exams in the UK are done around 1:00pm and exams in Trinidad are done around 9:00 am. There is nothing on the degree that says "distance learning" or "done through 3rd party". If it's available students can also seamlessly transfer to campus if they want.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby Redress10 » August 7th, 2017, 11:34 pm

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:^ I am talking about Engineering and Science Degrees.

Off course UWI has garbage degrees I am fully aware of that. Offcourse they are dropping their entry requirements for a number of degrees that are not even accredited internationally. I have been very specific with my wording with regards to Engineering and Computer Science degrees from UWI, the engineering which are triple accredited.

My uncle did his PHd in Physics at Oxford using his UWI degrees to gain entry. Only a fool would think UWI is some sort of backwater 3rd world University. Just because some degrees are sheit at UWI doesn't mean all are.


That is not what we going on about. Moving forward in his life, his uwi degree would now be trumped by the phd from oxford. He could apply anywhere in the world. Anyone in the world would recognise an Oxford graduate and what they are capable of. We are talking about global recognition. Two uwi grads apply globally for a job. One has a masters from uwi and the other a masters from oxford. Which one do you think would be looked on more favourably?

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby Redress10 » August 7th, 2017, 11:37 pm

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:^ you do realize I am just using it as an exmple to show you that the being qualified doesn't just mean just simply having a degree from the best University, right? you do realize that some of the best programmers in the world never even went to a University and are entirely self taught, right?

I am simply pointing out that Experience/ Skill combined with a lower ranked University can often give you the edge over someone from a higher ranked university and less experience or skill, this isn't difficult to understand and it isn't rocket science.

Case in point is this guy Barry

https://barryrountree.files.wordpress.c ... /vitae.pdf

One of the best computer scientists in the world, few even from MIT and harvard can come close to him and he never went to any fancy University.

Infact the Father of the Intel Pentium chip came from a 3rd world University in India. He was hired by Intel after all the Harvard and Yale graduates failed to do the job, soo much for "fancy University means everything"


Stop diverting, that guy probably could have gone Harvard etc for computer science if he wanted. There are people who are working for Nasa etc without a degree. These are "gifted" individuals. Remember most start up entrepreneurs are university drop outs. They didn't even complete the degree.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » August 7th, 2017, 11:39 pm

Redress10 wrote:That is not what we going on about. Moving forward in his life, his uwi degree would now be trumped by the phd from oxford. He could apply anywhere in the world. Anyone in the world would recognise an Oxford graduate and what they are capable of. We are talking about global recognition. Two uwi grads apply globally for a job. One has a masters from uwi and the other a masters from oxford. Which one do you think would be looked on more favourably?


Surely it will be Oxford if its exactly that. Both out of school and no experience

And I NEVER said UWI was better than Oxford but if you look at the curriculum, of their Engineering program its much better than many universities in the US. Even better compare the past exam papers and you will see often UWI's exams are much harder than many US universities. Atleast in engineering that is I can't speak for the rest because I never compared other papers.

However life is far more complex than that, if you are going for a job in science and engineering field, who do you think will be hired the one from the best University of the one from a lesser University but has actually made a significant contribution to the field of science by inventing something new or solving a problem that nobody else could?

Let me ask it in another way lets say a guy from UWI cured cancer, he and another guy from Oxford went for a job in that same medical research field who do you think will get the job?

But to answer your question offcourse the same degree from Oxford is better than UWI.

I prefer to compare UWI to US state Universities, not comparing it to the best in the world.
Last edited by EFFECTIC DESIGNS on August 7th, 2017, 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby Redress10 » August 7th, 2017, 11:47 pm

Anyone knows how much Uwi's tuition costs a year?

An MBA from Oxford University costs 55000 pounds a year. How much does it costs to attend ALJGSB?

A computer science degree from Harvard costs 47000 USD per year.

An undergraduate medical degree from Cambridge can costs up to 30,000 pounds a year. What's the fees at medsci without GATE etc.

As you can see a degree is not a basic requirement, it is a lifelong investment.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby Redress10 » August 7th, 2017, 11:54 pm

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:
Redress10 wrote:That is not what we going on about. Moving forward in his life, his uwi degree would now be trumped by the phd from oxford. He could apply anywhere in the world. Anyone in the world would recognise an Oxford graduate and what they are capable of. We are talking about global recognition. Two uwi grads apply globally for a job. One has a masters from uwi and the other a masters from oxford. Which one do you think would be looked on more favourably?


Surely it will be Oxford if its exactly that. Both out of school and no experience

And I NEVER said UWI was better than Oxford but if you look at the curriculum, of their Engineering program its much better than many universities in the US. Even better compare the past exam papers and you will see often UWI's exams are much harder than many US universities. Atleast in engineering that is I can't speak for the rest because I never compared other papers.

However life is far more complex than that, if you are going for a job in science and engineering field, who do you think will be hired the one from the best University of the one from a lesser University but has actually made a significant contribution to the field of science by inventing something new or solving a problem that nobody else could?

Let me ask it in another way lets say a guy from UWI cured cancer, he and another guy from Oxford went for a job in that same medical research field who do you think will get the job?

But to answer your question offcourse the same degree from Oxford is better than UWI.

I prefer to compare UWI to US state Universities, not comparing it to the best in the world.


That's where you wrong. At A'levels our top performing students are eligible for Cambridge and Oxford etc. I have friends who went there after finishing A's in Trinidad. I would never compare UWI to US state schools etc. UWI's graduates are capable of performing with the best. US state school's graduates are not. You keep going on and on about experience but you do realise that in developed countries most times it is actually illegal based on age discrimination laws to "advertise requiring experience". Listen, there are entry level jobs, mid level jobs and senior level jobs etc. Two persons with diverse years of experience are not suppose to be applying for the same level/types of jobs so that "experience" point is moot. Remember CEO's of start ups nowadays are under 21 and rarely have a degree farless experience. It's a brave new world dude, embrace it.

How feasible is it that cancer can be cured in the Caribbean? We lack resources etc, that plays a part in research. Research etc drives a university forward and attract brilliant people. You honestly believe that it is feasible that a UWI grad at uwi can cure a disease like cancer. Be real bro.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby worksux101 » August 8th, 2017, 12:03 am

Redress10 wrote:
worksux101 wrote:
Redress10 wrote:
desifemlove wrote:https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2017/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/scores

so then, what value do these unis have, and are they valued in the world?


That's a loaded question. UWI/UTT will never ever be on any of these lists simply because UWI/UTT isn't widely regarded worldwide. No one leaves from Saudi Arabia/ Australia etc to attain a degree from the University of the West Indies. They do for degrees in the UK, Europe and USA. Anyone who has ever been to a top university overseas would tell you that it is a life changing and eye opening experience. Those universities prepare you for global employment.

Now the funny thing is...University of London consists of London School of Economics, University College London, King's College which rank, 15, 25 and 36 globally.

It also consists of LSHTM, which won Times' Higher Education University of the Year, together with over a dozen others...that in and of itself is irrelevant...UOL is just a body of unis, so the clown comparing a UOL degree to UWI clearly doesnt know much...saying accreditation is what matters also shows both a lack of experience and knowledge on the subject.
UWI is rated poorly overall because they have many degrees that are rubbish performers - graduates from mthope, lok jak and geosci are considered fairly highly abroad. Because our system is utterly corrupt and poorly managed doesnt mean said persons would struggle elsewhere; they just choose to keep the comfort of home.
What keeps prestige prestigious is not just the quality of training but the discipline required firstly to get in and secondly to keep at the standard required...that is reflected in the willingness to help their own - the career departments in these schools find you the best of jobs, and it goes full circle whereby in the future you're likely to give someone from your alumnus a chance because you are familiar with the dedication required for their journey.
Comparing a degree given through a third party via distance programmes to a school's ranking is also quite silly, and why said programmes are rarely well regarded. Very few care about accreditation on the global job market - if you're good enough, you're trained to fit the bill. UWI eng students can have whatever accreditation theyd like to think they have - they struggle abroad unless they get scooped by a major company operating nearby (of which tnt has been blessed with many) who then train accordingly, which gives them a platform upon which to build. Rankings are also not focused on how many jobs are attained etc...these people arent stupd and cater for fluctuations in the job market...the quality of the work produced from graduates years down the line have a larger influence. Also, its not just the students' perception of the programme but the school's response that plays a large role. To discount these rankings and act as if they have no influence would be downright silly.


I wasn't going to list all UOL schools just the ones that were high up on the list. Those are the ones involved in the LLb degree etc that are offered here at home. It's common knowledge that UOL is just an umbrella term it isn't an actual university. I would know, I studied there.

"UWI is rated poorly because of rubbish degrees and rubbish performers"? Ha, do you honestly believe that when compiling these list, people actually consider UWI and its "rubbish degrees and rubbish performers?" LMAO

I think the graduates do well abroad because they are brilliant people. We have brilliant people here at home. I honestly believe that UWI as an institution is poor, both financially and academically. I am in no way saying that the people are not capable of performing once given the opportunity etc. It's the opportunity that may be lacking due to possessing only a uwi degree. Remember, you are competing globally, I know people with MBA's from OXbridge and it's been smooth sailing. I also know ppl who went ALGSB and they signing up for OJT.

The UOL degree programmes are not done through a "3rd party". Gate just made it appear so. The universities has no ties with local institutions. Their ties are only with the student undertaking the study. All students on campus and distance learning, study the exact same syllabus and sit the exact same exam at the exact same time. Exams in the UK are done around 1:00pm and exams in Trinidad are done around 9:00 am. There is nothing on the degree that says "distance learning" or "done through 3rd party". If it's available students can also seamlessly transfer to campus if they want.


Someone (idgaf who) compared a 'UOL' degree to a UWI degree - i was merely clarifying.
I've done work with THE and attended UOL, so you can 'LMAO' all you want, you're clearly unaware of the process.
Yes tnt has brilliant minds, but so too does every other country. We are no better or worse. Opportunity is usually the biggest rds for most, and opportunity is often directly related to alumnus...alumnus often being related to perceived quality.
There is a stark difference between an institutionally delivered taught course and one attained via other mediums. Would you accept a student with 4 A's from Eton or from Hillview? Same exam, markedly different teaching modalities.

Like I said, there is alot more to it all than meets the eye - ultimately it often just comes down to opportunity and luck of the draw...
There are the rare exceptions that excel, but the rule generally follows the above algorithms.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby worksux101 » August 8th, 2017, 12:20 am

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:
Redress10 wrote:That is not what we going on about. Moving forward in his life, his uwi degree would now be trumped by the phd from oxford. He could apply anywhere in the world. Anyone in the world would recognise an Oxford graduate and what they are capable of. We are talking about global recognition. Two uwi grads apply globally for a job. One has a masters from uwi and the other a masters from oxford. Which one do you think would be looked on more favourably?


Surely it will be Oxford if its exactly that. Both out of school and no experience

And I NEVER said UWI was better than Oxford but if you look at the curriculum, of their Engineering program its much better than many universities in the US. Even better compare the past exam papers and you will see often UWI's exams are much harder than many US universities. Atleast in engineering that is I can't speak for the rest because I never compared other papers.

However life is far more complex than that, if you are going for a job in science and engineering field, who do you think will be hired the one from the best University of the one from a lesser University but has actually made a significant contribution to the field of science by inventing something new or solving a problem that nobody else could?

Let me ask it in another way lets say a guy from UWI cured cancer, he and another guy from Oxford went for a job in that same medical research field who do you think will get the job?

But to answer your question offcourse the same degree from Oxford is better than UWI.

I prefer to compare UWI to US state Universities, not comparing it to the best in the world.


Sorry but you're being very naive...
Firstly, you keep harping on uwi's eng degrees - they're only so regarded because of the demand given our location, which in turn pressures accreditation...the first thing that's done is retraining. Many of UWI's eng students who go abroad immediately tend to struggle unless they've been tapped up by a major oil conglomerate in the vicinity early on and gained experience. This would apply to any university worldwide - we're just fortunate with our oil and gas. Personally know a fair few who have had to come back with tails between their legs. Ask yourself, when Schlumberger started laying off from a side, who went first?
Like the other poster said, you cannot compare someone who has worked in the field to a fresh graduate who is likely seeking an internship somewhere...two different segments of the job market, and chances are when they do coalesce, all else being equal it isn't the uwi grad getting the positions. There will always be exceptions for those that either excel at what they do or work their asses off.
As for your comment re: breakthroughs, what do you think sets those universities apart? The academic world is small and word spreads quickly - long before you've published that breakthrough, you'd likely be offered a schol to an ivy university or such. They stay on top by scouting the top..its an investment..they have the best equipment to attract the best students to achieve the best results to get more funding to buy the best equipment...(you see the cycle).

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby desifemlove » August 8th, 2017, 1:02 am

Redress10 wrote:
desifemlove wrote:https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2017/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/scores

so then, what value do these unis have, and are they valued in the world?


That's a loaded question. UWI/UTT will never ever be on any of these lists simply because UWI/UTT isn't widely regarded worldwide. No one leaves from Saudi Arabia/ Australia etc to attain a degree from the University of the West Indies. They do for degrees in the UK, Europe and USA. Anyone who has ever been to a top university overseas would tell you that it is a life changing and eye opening experience. Those universities prepare you for global employment.

Now the funny thing is...University of London consists of London School of Economics, University College London, King's College which rank, 15, 25 and 36 globally.

it's also based on research quality/output, and teaching. no reason both unis here can't score high on that.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby Daran » August 8th, 2017, 4:01 am

I studied my BSc in UWI got first class and then did an MSc in a top 20 ranked university globally.

In a nut shell, even though UWI's degrees are accredited. The level of work being done by undergraduates from every single other university in my MSc program, was significantly more advanced.

UWI is not good and is probably getting worse.

The funny thing though is that the A level grades required to get into some of UWI's programs were higher than the A level grades for BSc entry into this university. UWI has bright students but they don't truly challenge them.

A Head of Department told me that it's mainly due to the attitudes of the students. They just want to get come out with a qualification and not truly learn their craft.

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Re: no UWI or UTT in global rankings....

Postby RedVEVO » August 8th, 2017, 4:08 am

bluefete wrote:http://www.webometrics.info/en/Americas/Caribbean

UWI - St. Augustine is ranked #1,849 globally (2017)
UWI - Jamaica is ranked #1,086 globally
USC is ranked 6,432 globally
UTT is ranked #6,979 globally
ALJ GSB is ranked #10,187 globally


UWI Degree = Subway Assistant Manager (USA)

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