Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

[Ben_spanna]

carnival still on so who cares, now onto Petrotrin again... time to send home a few hundred more................

[zoom rader]

Well this situation the government is looking for more money and CNC looking for a cheap deal .

CNC is a bunch of fvckers to use workers as pawns . Workers are already not paid on the world scale.

In this case I support the government

Why should workers be paid the same as globally?

Why sell in US and pay workers 1/6 of what the wage bill is in US.

[Miktay]

[Dizzy28]

Well this situation the government is looking for more money and CNC looking for a cheap deal .

CNC is a bunch of fvckers to use workers as pawns . Workers are already not paid on the world scale.

In this case I support the government

Why should workers be paid the same as globally?

Why sell in US and pay workers 1/6 of what the wage bill is in US.

But the workers are not in the US. They are in Trinidad.
If they feel they would get better pay in the US by all means pack up and go get your salaryx6.

[zoom rader]

Well this situation the government is looking for more money and CNC looking for a cheap deal .

CNC is a bunch of fvckers to use workers as pawns . Workers are already not paid on the world scale.

In this case I support the government

Why should workers be paid the same as globally?

Why sell in US and pay workers 1/6 of what the wage bill is in US.

But the workers are not in the US. They are in Trinidad.
If they feel they would get better pay in the US by all means pack up and go get your salaryx6.

So this give employers the right exploit trini workers .

[Dizzy28]

Well this situation the government is looking for more money and CNC looking for a cheap deal .

CNC is a bunch of fvckers to use workers as pawns . Workers are already not paid on the world scale.

In this case I support the government

Why should workers be paid the same as globally?

Why sell in US and pay workers 1/6 of what the wage bill is in US.

But the workers are not in the US. They are in Trinidad.
If they feel they would get better pay in the US by all means pack up and go get your salaryx6.

So this give employers the right exploit trini workers .

How are they exploited? Are they underpaid for the Trinidad and Tobago job market?
By your rationale then all workers in Trinidad underpaid as every sector is paid less than their US (and OECD in general) counterparts - Politicans and Public servants included.

[zoom rader]

Well this situation the government is looking for more money and CNC looking for a cheap deal .

CNC is a bunch of fvckers to use workers as pawns . Workers are already not paid on the world scale.

In this case I support the government

Why should workers be paid the same as globally?

Why sell in US and pay workers 1/6 of what the wage bill is in US.

But the workers are not in the US. They are in Trinidad.
If they feel they would get better pay in the US by all means pack up and go get your salaryx6.

So this give employers the right exploit trini workers .

How are they exploited? Are they underpaid for the Trinidad and Tobago job market?
By your rationale then all workers in Trinidad underpaid as every sector is paid less than their US (and OECD in general) counterparts - Politicans and Public servants included.

I speak with regards to those in the energy sector. Once you sell in US then a portion of that should go towards employees.

Trini employees face primitive working conditions. Salary and benefits are behind world standards..

Every employer says employees are number one and their greatest assets. This is load of B.S. I have worked with Companies that said this but when push come to shove they will say it have 10 men waiting to replace you.

A company full of b.s. is ipsl .

[De Dragon]

Well this situation the government is looking for more money and CNC looking for a cheap deal .

CNC is a bunch of fvckers to use workers as pawns . Workers are already not paid on the world scale.

In this case I support the government

Why should workers be paid the same as globally?

Why sell in US and pay workers 1/6 of what the wage bill is in US.

But the workers are not in the US. They are in Trinidad.
If they feel they would get better pay in the US by all means pack up and go get your salaryx6.

So this give employers the right exploit trini workers .

How are they exploited? Are they underpaid for the Trinidad and Tobago job market?
By your rationale then all workers in Trinidad underpaid as every sector is paid less than their US (and OECD in general) counterparts - Politicans and Public servants included.

I speak with regards to those in the energy sector. Once you sell in US then a portion of that should go towards employees.

Trini employees face primitive working conditions. Salary and benefits are behind world standards..

Every employer says employees are number one and their greatest assets. This is load of B.S. I have worked with Companies that said this but when push come to shove they will say it have 10 men waiting to replace you.

A company full of b.s. is ipsl .

Some companies do it via profit sharing paid in US. Of course it's best that you retain it through the broker because it is virtually useless down here with the interest rates, and availability banks offer.

[Dizzy28]

Well this situation the government is looking for more money and CNC looking for a cheap deal .

CNC is a bunch of fvckers to use workers as pawns . Workers are already not paid on the world scale.

In this case I support the government

Why should workers be paid the same as globally?

Why sell in US and pay workers 1/6 of what the wage bill is in US.

But the workers are not in the US. They are in Trinidad.
If they feel they would get better pay in the US by all means pack up and go get your salaryx6.

So this give employers the right exploit trini workers .

How are they exploited? Are they underpaid for the Trinidad and Tobago job market?
By your rationale then all workers in Trinidad underpaid as every sector is paid less than their US (and OECD in general) counterparts - Politicans and Public servants included.

I speak with regards to those in the energy sector. Once you sell in US then a portion of that should go towards employees.

Trini employees face primitive working conditions. Salary and benefits are behind world standards..

Every employer says employees are number one and their greatest assets. This is load of B.S. I have worked with Companies that said this but when push come to shove they will say it have 10 men waiting to replace you.

A company full of b.s. is ipsl .

Serious socialism type tendencies there...Maduro will be pleased!!!

[zoom rader]

Well this situation the government is looking for more money and CNC looking for a cheap deal .

CNC is a bunch of fvckers to use workers as pawns . Workers are already not paid on the world scale.

In this case I support the government

Why should workers be paid the same as globally?

Why sell in US and pay workers 1/6 of what the wage bill is in US.

But the workers are not in the US. They are in Trinidad.
If they feel they would get better pay in the US by all means pack up and go get your salaryx6.

So this give employers the right exploit trini workers .

How are they exploited? Are they underpaid for the Trinidad and Tobago job market?
By your rationale then all workers in Trinidad underpaid as every sector is paid less than their US (and OECD in general) counterparts - Politicans and Public servants included.

I speak with regards to those in the energy sector. Once you sell in US then a portion of that should go towards employees.

Trini employees face primitive working conditions. Salary and benefits are behind world standards..

Every employer says employees are number one and their greatest assets. This is load of B.S. I have worked with Companies that said this but when push come to shove they will say it have 10 men waiting to replace you.

A company full of b.s. is ipsl .

Serious socialism type tendencies there...Maduro will be pleased!!!

Half of what these companies do in trini they can't do it elsewhere. Some plants won't even pass a safety and pollution test.

Training in these companies is always a joke. They always looking for experience workers but spend little towards it

[Miktay]

Zoom have a point inno.

But one reason multinationals site plants in Tdad iz low cost of inputs.

If the primary costs of a bidnezz are in depreciating TT$ (re: labor, raw materials,) and your products are sold for appreciating USD, GBP, EUR etc then as a company you have an advantage.

Thiz iz why alotta US firms have factories in Mexico, Indonesia, China and Vietnam.

Its up to GORTT to dictate the terms of multinational sitings in T&T by giving (or refusing to give) incentives such as tax holidays....reduced transfer and fng country repatriation restrictions.

Multinationals will always try to get the best deal possible. But the onus iz on T&T Gubbament to acede or refuse the terms given the global competitive environment for attracting said factories.

[toyolink]

We have had to grapple with many questions raised in this thread as far as I can remember.
The question remains what do we have to do to attract and maintain an environment which energy investors view as ideal.
Historically the dilemma has been about nationalistic dispositions versus capitalistic orientation of investors.
Actually the value model which helped our negotiations did not only focus on only pure profits but included employment expansion, govt revenue opportunities and building of momentum and mass (to drive down unit costs).
What has been proven in a cyclical market is once arrangements are properly conceived an initial loss (on face value) can in-time result in tremendous positives (we have enjoyed same).
What we did with win-falls which should be in place for stabilization is another issue.

[sMASH]

as 'ah man' said, yuh cant cut off ur nose to spite yuh face.

although i do believe that the foreigners should pay more, this is the wrong time to make that demand. let the pricing system continue for a next couple years, and then negotiate better prices..

or is loquan just as dotish as roget?




wrt to local being paid as well as foreigners.. that is between the employer and the employee. if the employee dont want to UNIFY their numbers and consolidate their bargaining power, well let them ingest the shaft rectally.
some... many, want the foreign dollars, and go abroad and get the foreign dollars directly.

[DreamWeaver]

I actually agree with the ngc/government's perspective. CNC (majority owned by the germz btw) doesn't even let a lot of their foreign exchange flow back into the country. They make their money selling their ammonia then they spend it to contract the germz (via single sourcing, not competitive bidding) to do large scale maintenance works and upgrades on the plant. Some of these works are unnecessary too btw. This way, the money goes back to the germz and they can then use it to build their foreign plants. And the prices the germz call for their "projects" are wayyyy higher than what a local contractor would bid so you know it hada be bobol going on if all the shareholders agreeing to spending ridiculous amounts of money to the majority shareholder for works that clearly could be done at cheaper prices by local companies. The germz even do horrible work and their local owned company (the boys in blue) does hada clean up after them. Since the germz took majority shareholding and ownership of much of the plants on the estate, they've been squeezing out the foreign exchange from the economy. That's most likely why CNC seems unprofitable too on paper. We're just a cash cow for them until they hada pull their weight to support our economy. That time is now and they vex about that.

[zoom rader]

I actually agree with the ngc/government's perspective. CNC (majority owned by the germz btw) doesn't even let a lot of their foreign exchange flow back into the country. They make their money selling their ammonia then they spend it to contract the germz (via single sourcing, not competitive bidding) to do large scale maintenance works and upgrades on the plant. Some of these works are unnecessary too btw. This way, the money goes back to the germz and they can then use it to build their foreign plants. And the prices the germz call for their "projects" are wayyyy higher than what a local contractor would bid so you know it hada be bobol going on if all the shareholders agreeing to spending ridiculous amounts of money to the majority shareholder for works that clearly could be done at cheaper prices by local companies. The germz even do horrible work and their local owned company (the boys in blue) does hada clean up after them. Since the germz took majority shareholding and ownership of much of the plants on the estate, they've been squeezing out the foreign exchange from the economy. That's most likely why CNC seems unprofitable too on paper. We're just a cash cow for them until they hada pull their weight to support our economy. That time is now and they vex about that.

There are locals here who argue that worker are paid according to what everyone else is pàiď. They don't see it your way.
They think it's socialist

[DreamWeaver]

I actually agree with the ngc/government's perspective. CNC (majority owned by the germz btw) doesn't even let a lot of their foreign exchange flow back into the country. They make their money selling their ammonia then they spend it to contract the germz (via single sourcing, not competitive bidding) to do large scale maintenance works and upgrades on the plant. Some of these works are unnecessary too btw. This way, the money goes back to the germz and they can then use it to build their foreign plants. And the prices the germz call for their "projects" are wayyyy higher than what a local contractor would bid so you know it hada be bobol going on if all the shareholders agreeing to spending ridiculous amounts of money to the majority shareholder for works that clearly could be done at cheaper prices by local companies. The germz even do horrible work and their local owned company (the boys in blue) does hada clean up after them. Since the germz took majority shareholding and ownership of much of the plants on the estate, they've been squeezing out the foreign exchange from the economy. That's most likely why CNC seems unprofitable too on paper. We're just a cash cow for them until they hada pull their weight to support our economy. That time is now and they vex about that.

There are locals here who argue that worker are paid according to what everyone else is pàiď. They don't see it your way.
They think it's socialist

i can tell you for sure that all the local companies that the germz run have been known to pay their managers and white folks well. They've also been known to use these high level folks to assist in their foreign projects. The workers at the ground floor who actually work the hardest only get scraps though. When ammonia and methanol prices were high (now is around US$300 and something which is still pretty good) and the new ipsl ceo became chief dictator, these workers were so under paid and disappointed with his management that a mass exodus started with the boys in blue and lots of workers were leaving to go foreign. The germz (who own ipsl btw) were forced to dig into their profits to increase wages to market prices for ipsl. This never lasted long though and the salaries once again fell behind the increasing market prices. Over the last 3 years the boys in blue aint get anything. Only heard recently that another mass exodus was happening because men were leaving for cgcl. Daz when d germz had to pay bonuses and pay increases to ipsl this month. Rumor has it they got a 2% increase. lol. men not gonna be impressed by that. They still leaving. cgcl apparently offers genuine market value jobs which attracting many.

[De Dragon]

I actually agree with the ngc/government's perspective. CNC (majority owned by the germz btw) doesn't even let a lot of their foreign exchange flow back into the country. They make their money selling their ammonia then they spend it to contract the germz (via single sourcing, not competitive bidding) to do large scale maintenance works and upgrades on the plant. Some of these works are unnecessary too btw. This way, the money goes back to the germz and they can then use it to build their foreign plants. And the prices the germz call for their "projects" are wayyyy higher than what a local contractor would bid so you know it hada be bobol going on if all the shareholders agreeing to spending ridiculous amounts of money to the majority shareholder for works that clearly could be done at cheaper prices by local companies. The germz even do horrible work and their local owned company (the boys in blue) does hada clean up after them. Since the germz took majority shareholding and ownership of much of the plants on the estate, they've been squeezing out the foreign exchange from the economy. That's most likely why CNC seems unprofitable too on paper. We're just a cash cow for them until they hada pull their weight to support our economy. That time is now and they vex about that.

There are locals here who argue that worker are paid according to what everyone else is pàiď. They don't see it your way.
They think it's socialist

i can tell you for sure that all the local companies that the germz run have been known to pay their managers and white folks well. They've also been known to use these high level folks to assist in their foreign projects. The workers at the ground floor who actually work the hardest only get scraps though. When ammonia and methanol prices were high (now is around US$300 and something which is still pretty good) and the new ipsl ceo became chief dictator, these workers were so under paid and disappointed with his management that a mass exodus started with the boys in blue and lots of workers were leaving to go foreign. The germz (who own ipsl btw) were forced to dig into their profits to increase wages to market prices for ipsl. This never lasted long though and the salaries once again fell behind the increasing market prices. Over the last 3 years the boys in blue aint get anything. Only heard recently that another mass exodus was happening because men were leaving for cgcl. Daz when d germz had to pay bonuses and pay increases to ipsl this month. Rumor has it they got a 2% increase. lol. men not gonna be impressed by that. They still leaving. cgcl apparently offers genuine market value jobs which attracting many.

CGCL is job security mostly, because the salaries aren't that high.

[DreamWeaver]

I actually agree with the ngc/government's perspective. CNC (majority owned by the germz btw) doesn't even let a lot of their foreign exchange flow back into the country. They make their money selling their ammonia then they spend it to contract the germz (via single sourcing, not competitive bidding) to do large scale maintenance works and upgrades on the plant. Some of these works are unnecessary too btw. This way, the money goes back to the germz and they can then use it to build their foreign plants. And the prices the germz call for their "projects" are wayyyy higher than what a local contractor would bid so you know it hada be bobol going on if all the shareholders agreeing to spending ridiculous amounts of money to the majority shareholder for works that clearly could be done at cheaper prices by local companies. The germz even do horrible work and their local owned company (the boys in blue) does hada clean up after them. Since the germz took majority shareholding and ownership of much of the plants on the estate, they've been squeezing out the foreign exchange from the economy. That's most likely why CNC seems unprofitable too on paper. We're just a cash cow for them until they hada pull their weight to support our economy. That time is now and they vex about that.

There are locals here who argue that worker are paid according to what everyone else is pàiď. They don't see it your way.
They think it's socialist

i can tell you for sure that all the local companies that the germz run have been known to pay their managers and white folks well. They've also been known to use these high level folks to assist in their foreign projects. The workers at the ground floor who actually work the hardest only get scraps though. When ammonia and methanol prices were high (now is around US$300 and something which is still pretty good) and the new ipsl ceo became chief dictator, these workers were so under paid and disappointed with his management that a mass exodus started with the boys in blue and lots of workers were leaving to go foreign. The germz (who own ipsl btw) were forced to dig into their profits to increase wages to market prices for ipsl. This never lasted long though and the salaries once again fell behind the increasing market prices. Over the last 3 years the boys in blue aint get anything. Only heard recently that another mass exodus was happening because men were leaving for cgcl. Daz when d germz had to pay bonuses and pay increases to ipsl this month. Rumor has it they got a 2% increase. lol. men not gonna be impressed by that. They still leaving. cgcl apparently offers genuine market value jobs which attracting many.

CGCL is job security mostly, because the salaries aren't that high.

it kinda is actually. you got to compare a starting salary at ipsl for a certain job with a starting salary at cgcl for the same job. A lot of people get confused with this. someone who gets 3 merit increases at a job in ipsl cant say that he is only getting a few dollars more at cgcl for the same job. he would be entitled to merit increases at cgcl (based on performance) which would show a bigger difference than a few hundred dollars. Gotta compare apples to apples.

[Miktay]

I actually agree with the ngc/government's perspective. CNC (majority owned by the germz btw) doesn't even let a lot of their foreign exchange flow back into the country. They make their money selling their ammonia then they spend it to contract the germz (via single sourcing, not competitive bidding) to do large scale maintenance works and upgrades on the plant. Some of these works are unnecessary too btw. This way, the money goes back to the germz and they can then use it to build their foreign plants. And the prices the germz call for their "projects" are wayyyy higher than what a local contractor would bid so you know it hada be bobol going on if all the shareholders agreeing to spending ridiculous amounts of money to the majority shareholder for works that clearly could be done at cheaper prices by local companies. The germz even do horrible work and their local owned company (the boys in blue) does hada clean up after them. Since the germz took majority shareholding and ownership of much of the plants on the estate, they've been squeezing out the foreign exchange from the economy. That's most likely why CNC seems unprofitable too on paper. We're just a cash cow for them until they hada pull their weight to support our economy. That time is now and they vex about that.

Every multinational does thiz.

[DreamWeaver]

I actually agree with the ngc/government's perspective. CNC (majority owned by the germz btw) doesn't even let a lot of their foreign exchange flow back into the country. They make their money selling their ammonia then they spend it to contract the germz (via single sourcing, not competitive bidding) to do large scale maintenance works and upgrades on the plant. Some of these works are unnecessary too btw. This way, the money goes back to the germz and they can then use it to build their foreign plants. And the prices the germz call for their "projects" are wayyyy higher than what a local contractor would bid so you know it hada be bobol going on if all the shareholders agreeing to spending ridiculous amounts of money to the majority shareholder for works that clearly could be done at cheaper prices by local companies. The germz even do horrible work and their local owned company (the boys in blue) does hada clean up after them. Since the germz took majority shareholding and ownership of much of the plants on the estate, they've been squeezing out the foreign exchange from the economy. That's most likely why CNC seems unprofitable too on paper. We're just a cash cow for them until they hada pull their weight to support our economy. That time is now and they vex about that.

Every multinational does thiz.

That's what we get for a being a blacklisted tax haven for multinationals. They use and abuse us until they are done with us then it's on to the next cash cow to milk.

[zoom rader]

I actually agree with the ngc/government's perspective. CNC (majority owned by the germz btw) doesn't even let a lot of their foreign exchange flow back into the country. They make their money selling their ammonia then they spend it to contract the germz (via single sourcing, not competitive bidding) to do large scale maintenance works and upgrades on the plant. Some of these works are unnecessary too btw. This way, the money goes back to the germz and they can then use it to build their foreign plants. And the prices the germz call for their "projects" are wayyyy higher than what a local contractor would bid so you know it hada be bobol going on if all the shareholders agreeing to spending ridiculous amounts of money to the majority shareholder for works that clearly could be done at cheaper prices by local companies. The germz even do horrible work and their local owned company (the boys in blue) does hada clean up after them. Since the germz took majority shareholding and ownership of much of the plants on the estate, they've been squeezing out the foreign exchange from the economy. That's most likely why CNC seems unprofitable too on paper. We're just a cash cow for them until they hada pull their weight to support our economy. That time is now and they vex about that.

There are locals here who argue that worker are paid according to what everyone else is pàiď. They don't see it your way.
They think it's socialist

i can tell you for sure that all the local companies that the germz run have been known to pay their managers and white folks well. They've also been known to use these high level folks to assist in their foreign projects. The workers at the ground floor who actually work the hardest only get scraps though. When ammonia and methanol prices were high (now is around US$300 and something which is still pretty good) and the new ipsl ceo became chief dictator, these workers were so under paid and disappointed with his management that a mass exodus started with the boys in blue and lots of workers were leaving to go foreign. The germz (who own ipsl btw) were forced to dig into their profits to increase wages to market prices for ipsl. This never lasted long though and the salaries once again fell behind the increasing market prices. Over the last 3 years the boys in blue aint get anything. Only heard recently that another mass exodus was happening because men were leaving for cgcl. Daz when d germz had to pay bonuses and pay increases to ipsl this month. Rumor has it they got a 2% increase. lol. men not gonna be impressed by that. They still leaving. cgcl apparently offers genuine market value jobs which attracting many.

I worked around the estate for about 20 years. I Would give a company 3 to 5 years service and if I don't see any improvements in pay, promotions benefits I leave that job.

I had a few times when I handed in my notice they would pull me in to the office to give me a counter offer. I would always ask them why wait till I leaving to offer me something. I always move forward and never return to a former job.

Companies know they can improve your conditions but they do nothing about it. To them they always say it have 10 men waiting to get your job.

If you want a faster pay increase then look for another job.

[Redman]

Can any one explain to me why these contracts cannot be set on a ratio basis?

NGC says to their customer- we will sell you at x% of Henry Hub-or some basket of Global Nat gas prices.

or some ratio on ammonia prices??

[Redman]

In separate news Russian gas hits Boston. for the first time-a non TnT shipment has arrived at that port.

China has imported additional gas from multiple countries---to buttress in hand supply.


https://www.iea.org/Textbase/npsum/gas2017MRSsum.pdf

[DreamWeaver]

Can any one explain to me why these contracts cannot be set on a ratio basis?

NGC says to their customer- we will sell you at x% of Henry Hub-or some basket of Global Nat gas prices.

or some ratio on ammonia prices??

NGC has a balance to maintain. The upstreamers (bp, eog, bhp, etc.) charge ngc for the gas at a higher contract price due to the gas being more expensive to acquire (deepwater exploration and all). NGC needs to mark up the gas as expected but there would be a bare minimum cost that would allow it to be profitable. The ngc usually sells the gas to the downstreamers, not at a fixed price, but rather a price that moves based on time (to compensate for increased cost over time) and the price of the downstream products so that ngc can indirectly share in the profits that the downstreamers make. When downstream product prices are high, the downstreamers make extra earnings but they pay more for the gas. When downstream product prices are low, the downstreamers earn less revenue but they pay less for the gas as a result. The NGC's profits would fluctuate based on the price of the upstreamers gas and the price of the downstreamers' products. In some instances, ngc could make losses for periods where upstream prices are high and downstream prices are low. It is a delicate balancing act that ngc needs to coordinate but we need to be honest, the cnc contract price was since 2002. Price increases are to be expected and the ngc would have had to consider every scenario so as to keep both themselves and their clients afloat.

[sMASH]

soo, in other words, oil and gas are getting less and less economically feasible to maintain...
we have it, but it will not be able to sell it.

[DreamWeaver]

soo, in other words, oil and gas are getting less and less economically feasible to maintain...
we have it, but it will not be able to sell it.

Yes this seems like a future reality. Basically this will be the case in the coming years thanks to america and their shale oil and shale gas which is leading to a surge in petrochemical plants in the states. Too much cheap priced competition for T&T to compete with

[De Dragon]

I actually agree with the ngc/government's perspective. CNC (majority owned by the germz btw) doesn't even let a lot of their foreign exchange flow back into the country. They make their money selling their ammonia then they spend it to contract the germz (via single sourcing, not competitive bidding) to do large scale maintenance works and upgrades on the plant. Some of these works are unnecessary too btw. This way, the money goes back to the germz and they can then use it to build their foreign plants. And the prices the germz call for their "projects" are wayyyy higher than what a local contractor would bid so you know it hada be bobol going on if all the shareholders agreeing to spending ridiculous amounts of money to the majority shareholder for works that clearly could be done at cheaper prices by local companies. The germz even do horrible work and their local owned company (the boys in blue) does hada clean up after them. Since the germz took majority shareholding and ownership of much of the plants on the estate, they've been squeezing out the foreign exchange from the economy. That's most likely why CNC seems unprofitable too on paper. We're just a cash cow for them until they hada pull their weight to support our economy. That time is now and they vex about that.

There are locals here who argue that worker are paid according to what everyone else is pàiď. They don't see it your way.
They think it's socialist

i can tell you for sure that all the local companies that the germz run have been known to pay their managers and white folks well. They've also been known to use these high level folks to assist in their foreign projects. The workers at the ground floor who actually work the hardest only get scraps though. When ammonia and methanol prices were high (now is around US$300 and something which is still pretty good) and the new ipsl ceo became chief dictator, these workers were so under paid and disappointed with his management that a mass exodus started with the boys in blue and lots of workers were leaving to go foreign. The germz (who own ipsl btw) were forced to dig into their profits to increase wages to market prices for ipsl. This never lasted long though and the salaries once again fell behind the increasing market prices. Over the last 3 years the boys in blue aint get anything. Only heard recently that another mass exodus was happening because men were leaving for cgcl. Daz when d germz had to pay bonuses and pay increases to ipsl this month. Rumor has it they got a 2% increase. lol. men not gonna be impressed by that. They still leaving. cgcl apparently offers genuine market value jobs which attracting many.

CGCL is job security mostly, because the salaries aren't that high.

it kinda is actually. you got to compare a starting salary at ipsl for a certain job with a starting salary at cgcl for the same job. A lot of people get confused with this. someone who gets 3 merit increases at a job in ipsl cant say that he is only getting a few dollars more at cgcl for the same job. he would be entitled to merit increases at cgcl (based on performance) which would show a bigger difference than a few hundred dollars. Gotta compare apples to apples.

I'm speaking from first hand knowledge. The pay isn't all that. Plus you won't see profit sharing or merit increases for at least another year.

[DreamWeaver]

I actually agree with the ngc/government's perspective. CNC (majority owned by the germz btw) doesn't even let a lot of their foreign exchange flow back into the country. They make their money selling their ammonia then they spend it to contract the germz (via single sourcing, not competitive bidding) to do large scale maintenance works and upgrades on the plant. Some of these works are unnecessary too btw. This way, the money goes back to the germz and they can then use it to build their foreign plants. And the prices the germz call for their "projects" are wayyyy higher than what a local contractor would bid so you know it hada be bobol going on if all the shareholders agreeing to spending ridiculous amounts of money to the majority shareholder for works that clearly could be done at cheaper prices by local companies. The germz even do horrible work and their local owned company (the boys in blue) does hada clean up after them. Since the germz took majority shareholding and ownership of much of the plants on the estate, they've been squeezing out the foreign exchange from the economy. That's most likely why CNC seems unprofitable too on paper. We're just a cash cow for them until they hada pull their weight to support our economy. That time is now and they vex about that.

There are locals here who argue that worker are paid according to what everyone else is pàiď. They don't see it your way.
They think it's socialist

i can tell you for sure that all the local companies that the germz run have been known to pay their managers and white folks well. They've also been known to use these high level folks to assist in their foreign projects. The workers at the ground floor who actually work the hardest only get scraps though. When ammonia and methanol prices were high (now is around US$300 and something which is still pretty good) and the new ipsl ceo became chief dictator, these workers were so under paid and disappointed with his management that a mass exodus started with the boys in blue and lots of workers were leaving to go foreign. The germz (who own ipsl btw) were forced to dig into their profits to increase wages to market prices for ipsl. This never lasted long though and the salaries once again fell behind the increasing market prices. Over the last 3 years the boys in blue aint get anything. Only heard recently that another mass exodus was happening because men were leaving for cgcl. Daz when d germz had to pay bonuses and pay increases to ipsl this month. Rumor has it they got a 2% increase. lol. men not gonna be impressed by that. They still leaving. cgcl apparently offers genuine market value jobs which attracting many.

CGCL is job security mostly, because the salaries aren't that high.

it kinda is actually. you got to compare a starting salary at ipsl for a certain job with a starting salary at cgcl for the same job. A lot of people get confused with this. someone who gets 3 merit increases at a job in ipsl cant say that he is only getting a few dollars more at cgcl for the same job. he would be entitled to merit increases at cgcl (based on performance) which would show a bigger difference than a few hundred dollars. Gotta compare apples to apples.

I'm speaking from first hand knowledge. The pay isn't all that. Plus you won't see profit sharing or merit increases for at least another year.

I too am speaking from first hand knowledge but i supposed varying job positions may have varying salary and perks. A technician salary might be good but an engineer salary might not be all that for example.

[De Dragon]

I actually agree with the ngc/government's perspective. CNC (majority owned by the germz btw) doesn't even let a lot of their foreign exchange flow back into the country. They make their money selling their ammonia then they spend it to contract the germz (via single sourcing, not competitive bidding) to do large scale maintenance works and upgrades on the plant. Some of these works are unnecessary too btw. This way, the money goes back to the germz and they can then use it to build their foreign plants. And the prices the germz call for their "projects" are wayyyy higher than what a local contractor would bid so you know it hada be bobol going on if all the shareholders agreeing to spending ridiculous amounts of money to the majority shareholder for works that clearly could be done at cheaper prices by local companies. The germz even do horrible work and their local owned company (the boys in blue) does hada clean up after them. Since the germz took majority shareholding and ownership of much of the plants on the estate, they've been squeezing out the foreign exchange from the economy. That's most likely why CNC seems unprofitable too on paper. We're just a cash cow for them until they hada pull their weight to support our economy. That time is now and they vex about that.

There are locals here who argue that worker are paid according to what everyone else is pàiď. They don't see it your way.
They think it's socialist

i can tell you for sure that all the local companies that the germz run have been known to pay their managers and white folks well. They've also been known to use these high level folks to assist in their foreign projects. The workers at the ground floor who actually work the hardest only get scraps though. When ammonia and methanol prices were high (now is around US$300 and something which is still pretty good) and the new ipsl ceo became chief dictator, these workers were so under paid and disappointed with his management that a mass exodus started with the boys in blue and lots of workers were leaving to go foreign. The germz (who own ipsl btw) were forced to dig into their profits to increase wages to market prices for ipsl. This never lasted long though and the salaries once again fell behind the increasing market prices. Over the last 3 years the boys in blue aint get anything. Only heard recently that another mass exodus was happening because men were leaving for cgcl. Daz when d germz had to pay bonuses and pay increases to ipsl this month. Rumor has it they got a 2% increase. lol. men not gonna be impressed by that. They still leaving. cgcl apparently offers genuine market value jobs which attracting many.

CGCL is job security mostly, because the salaries aren't that high.

it kinda is actually. you got to compare a starting salary at ipsl for a certain job with a starting salary at cgcl for the same job. A lot of people get confused with this. someone who gets 3 merit increases at a job in ipsl cant say that he is only getting a few dollars more at cgcl for the same job. he would be entitled to merit increases at cgcl (based on performance) which would show a bigger difference than a few hundred dollars. Gotta compare apples to apples.

I'm speaking from first hand knowledge. The pay isn't all that. Plus you won't see profit sharing or merit increases for at least another year.

I too am speaking from first hand knowledge but i supposed varying job positions may have varying salary and perks. A technician salary might be good but an engineer salary might not be all that for example.

You also have to factor in the distance and the insane hours/bull work that a commissioning invariably has. They need to offer a high initial salary to offset these factors

[DreamWeaver]

The following is a statement issued by the CEO of the Caribbean Nitrogen Company Jerome Dookie on Sunday night... Dookie says CNC was willing and able to pay above US$4 for gas from the NGC.

“CNC FOCUSED ON MAINTAINING COMPETITIVENESS

IN T&T’s PETROCHEMICAL SECTOR”

"CNC believes we have been in intense but good faith negotiations with the NGC for the past 10 months attempting to agree a comprehensive Gas Supply Agreement for a long-term period. Unfortunately, the company in spite of several proposals, compromises and extensive best efforts, could not accept the NGC’s final offer as it would have put the plant in a negative financial position that would make CNC uncompetitive in the global Ammonia market.
If CNC is not competitive the business would not be sustainable and operations in T&T would come to an end.
This is clearly not a desirable outcome for a company that has invested billions of US dollars in infrastructure, plants and people and has been a key driver in the development of T&T’s Petrochemical business at the Pt Lisas Industrial Estate.

CNC believes it is important that information in the public domain with respect to our operations in Trinidad & Tobago is correct and represents our business and shareholders’ interests accurately and also does not prejudice the wellbeing and livelihood of our people, our most important assets. In that context, the CNC management insists it has an obligation to correct any misinformation affecting any of its stakeholders and the future of the business which has contributed hundreds of millions of US dollars to T&T economy for almost 20 years.

Key points for reference and clarification,

CNC did not choose to turn off our plant, it is a costly exercise where no one wins.

Shutting down a plant is the worst option as it cuts off much needed revenue and foreign exchange to the country, negatively affects people’s lives and incomes and puts at risk the country’s business reputation.

CNC is willing to resume talks and have shown our willingness to compromise throughout the negotiations. We are willing to be transparent with Government and the NGC. As they encourage us to go back to the table, we are still willing to compromise to find a solution that supports all stakeholders.

We do not expect US$2 gas or double-digit returns. We have adjusted our expectations, but at least we must have the opportunity to survive at low ammonia prices and share in the benefit when the market improves.

Our competition in the United States pays sub US$3 gas prices. Yet CNC has offered to pay above US$3. While we understand the local market and the NGC’s gas supply challenges, at last week’s ammonia prices CNC was willing and able to pay above US$4 for our gas from the NGC.

We are in a global market and we must compete and must be profitable if we are to continue to invest the millions of dollars in our plant to maintain world class safety and efficiency standards and also our international competitiveness.

If CNC can compete it means T&T can compete. It is our collective future in the global petrochemical business that we at CNC are focused on preserving. "

Jerome Dookie, CEO, CNC