Broward School shooter was "disturbed", are gun laws in the US too relaxed?

[maj. tom]

A possible legal work around for this. Keep the guns keep the 2nd Amendment. Just make ammo impossible to obtain except by military. Make it illegal for non civilians to possess ammunition of calibers over. 22 or not used for hunting, must have a hunting permit. Some people can make their own but the quality won't be as good and it's time consuming. They may have to legally redefine what ammunition is compared to arms.

But again, America loves these mass shooting affairs, so change will never happen.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43164634

Florida school shooting: Armed officer 'did not confront killer'

An armed officer assigned to the Florida school where a gunman killed 17 people last week stood outside the building during the shooting and did not intervene, the local sheriff says.

Deputy Scot Peterson has resigned after being suspended, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said.

"I am devastated. Sick to my stomach. He never went in," Sheriff Israel said.

Earlier this week President Trump said arming school teachers could prevent school shootings.

The proposal has long been championed by the powerful National Rifle Association (NRA) gun lobby.

On Thursday, in the NRA's first comments since the massacre, its head accused Democrats and media of "exploiting" the attack. Wayne LaPierre said "opportunists" were using the tragedy to expand gun control and abolish US gun rights.


What did the officer do?
Sheriff Israel said Mr Peterson, 54, was the school resource officer of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, and was at the site, armed and in uniform, when the shooting took place.

People are brought out of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School after a shooting at the school that reportedly killed and injured multiple people on February 14, 2018 in Parkland, Florida.


Students were evacuated in small groups after the 14 February shooting
He said video footage showed Mr Peterson arriving at the building where the shooting broke out about 90 seconds after the first shots were fired, and that he remained outside for about four minutes. The attack lasted six minutes, Sheriff Israel said.

Asked what Mr Peterson should have done, Sheriff Israel said: "Went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer."

Mr Peterson is yet to publicly comment on what happened. Officers are reportedly guarding his home.

Sheriff Israel said Mr Peterson had not given a reason for why he did not go into the building where the shooter was. It is unclear if he will face charges.

Sheriff Israel said he would not be releasing the video showing Mr Peterson and might never do so, "depending on the prosecution and criminal case" against the 19-year-old suspect accused of carrying out the shooting, former student Nikolas Cruz.

The gunman used a semi-automatic AR-15 assault rifle, police say, and escaped the scene before being seen and arrested later.


Why was Deputy Peterson there?
School resource officers are sworn law enforcement officers who are responsible for safety and crime prevention in schools, although their exact roles differ from school to school and authority to authority.

Employed by the local police or sheriff's office, they document incidents and can make arrests, as well as working on areas such as mentoring and education.

There are between 14,000 and 20,000 such officers in the US, according to the National Association of School Resource Officers.

Mr Peterson had been in his position at the school since 2009, local media report.

The Sun-Sentinel newspaper said he had worked for the sheriff's office since 1985 and office records showed his salary for 2016 was $75,673 (£54,137).

Were there any other failures?
Concerns have been raised about both the school's video surveillance system and whether warnings about Nikolas Cruz were ignored.

It has been reported that the person watching the surveillance system was relaying information 20 minutes old to police, so officers believed the gunman was in a certain area when he was not.

It has also been reported that calls were made to local authorities in 2016 and 2017 expressing concern about Nikolas Cruz, including one saying he was planning to attack the school.

When will the school reopen?
Teachers will be allowed back in on Friday. Both students and teachers are invited to a reorientation on Sunday, ahead of classes resuming on Wednesday.

The three-storey building that was attacked is to be torn down.

Are teachers now going to be armed?
In recent days both President Trump and the NRA have spoken about this.

Speaking at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) in Washington on Thursday, Mr LaPierre reiterated that his group backed it.

Is it time for US teachers to carry guns?
He said the NRA would help any US school with their safety and security, free of charge, adding that "opportunists" pushing for more gun control "hate the NRA. They hate the second amendment. They hate individual freedom".

Mr Trump floated the idea of arming teachers at a White House event on Wednesday where he heard from survivors of the Florida school shooting,
Discussing school safety with state and local officials on Thursday, he explained why he believed that it would work, saying: "Shooters won't walk into a school if 20% of people have guns."

Rest of story here: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43164634

[88sins]

A possible legal work around for this. Keep the guns keep the 2nd Amendment. Just make ammo impossible to obtain except by military. Make it illegal for non civilians to possess ammunition of calibers over. 22 or not used for hunting, must have a hunting permit. Some people can make their own but the quality won't be as good and it's time consuming. They may have to legally redefine what ammunition is compared to arms.

But again, America loves these mass shooting affairs, so change will never happen.

I'm not sure where you got that from, but it's wrong.
Casting isn't as time consuming as you might think, & can produce some seriously high quality consistent slugs, much better than factory. A proficient caster with a decent 6 cavity mold, once it's reached the right temps, can cast about 50 bullets per minute, & one can cater for about 20% of that to have imperfections & to be discarded, but that 20% is really high. In reality it's more likely about 5%. Only thing is a caster won't be able to jacket those slugs, so leading is a minor issue, & that's easily minimized by properly sizing them, knowing how lead hardness effects performance & a couple other minor things.
Hand loading produces high quality ammo, more often than not a whole lot better than factory could ever produce.

[Redman]

^^^ Yes, that's a legitimate solution, more guns. Who are to be the holder of these guns? Teachers? Safety Officers? Yes, according to Orange Cancer. Imagine acknowledging a problem so serious as to advocate arming teachers, but nothing on proactively limiting access to AR-15 type weapons for kids. What the actual fack!

You clearly don't understand the word proactive.
Continue the fight on policy.
By all means try to ban the guns.
The ban on guns will work ...just like the ban on drugs.
Except that you have constitutional challenges to face at every level.
So right or wrong it will take years.
At best.

What until then?
What do you suggest to prevent a shooting next month.?

If your kids in a school that is targeted...would you prefer a defense using a legislative agenda?
Or a weapon capable of stopping the threat in order to save the kids.?

Your hypocrisy is what you need to acknowledge.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

^^^ Yes, that's a legitimate solution, more guns. Who are to be the holder of these guns? Teachers? Safety Officers? Yes, according to Orange Cancer. Imagine acknowledging a problem so serious as to advocate arming teachers, but nothing on proactively limiting access to AR-15 type weapons for kids. What the actual fack!

You clearly don't understand the word proactive.
Continue the fight on policy.
By all means try to ban the guns.
The ban on guns will work ...just like the ban on drugs.
Except that you have constitutional challenges to face at every level.
So right or wrong it will take years.
At best.

What until then?
What do you suggest to prevent a shooting next month.?

If your kids in a school that is targeted...would you prefer a defense using a legislative agenda?
Or a weapon capable of stopping the threat in order to save the kids.?

Your hypocrisy is what you need to acknowledge.

To be fair the answer may not be more guns. An armed officer was present at this last shooting and did nothing. Literally did nothing but chill.

[Redman]

To be fair...a case of guns would not make a difference if a person is not willing to use them.

I'm waiting on a solid alternative to protecting the schools today.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

To be fair...a case of guns would not make a difference if a person is not willing to use them.

I'm waiting on a solid alternative to protecting the schools today.

Who to defend if not a trained armed police officer? Also why one or the other? Can have gun reform laws as well as trained persons to use them to defend schools.

[Redman]

Well sure....but existing law enables them to appoint others that are willing to do the job...

My view is simply that the existing on site security measures are obviously not enough.

And active shooter requires an active response...not policy change

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Well sure....but existing law enables them to appoint others that are willing to do the job...

My view is simply that the existing on site security measures are obviously not enough.

And active shooter requires an active response...not policy change

Based on this scenario of a trained armed officer on site but doing nothing what do you mean by on site security measures are not enough?

[Redman]

Given the amount of school shootings....i say the measure s in place are not enough....

There is nothing that will work...if it is not applied..

A sleeping or unwilling guard is useless.
As is a unenforced policy. if it is law but not enforced by the right people....it fails.

So the guard was unwilling to do the necessary..he failed...but there many in and outside of LE that are willing.

Role these guys out...and adapt as you formulate permanent solution s.

[Miktay]

So let me get thiz straight the liberal nutters think that a ban on assault rifles would have prevented thiz?

Despite the fact that all procedures to protect school children failed on multiple levels:

The killer was know to school authorities as having metal issues and/or on prescription medication and using firearms to kill small animals. But authorities did nothing.

In the hours after the shooting, people who knew Mr. Cruz described him as a “troubled kid” who enjoyed showing off his firearms, bragging about killing animals and whose mother would resort to calling the police to have them come to their home to try to talk some sense into him. At a school with about 3,000 students, Mr. Cruz stayed to himself and had few friends but struck fear in some students with erratic behavior and an affinity for violence.

“He always had guns on him,” the student, who did not give his name, told WFOR-TV. “The crazy stuff that he did was not right for school, and he got kicked out of school multiple times for that kind of stuff.”

Jim Gard, a math teacher at Stoneman Douglas High School, said in an interview that Mr. Cruz was a student in his class during the first semester of the 2016-17 school year. In the class, he was quiet and not disruptive, Mr. Gard said.

But he recalled that school administrators became concerned last year about Mr. Cruz’s behavior and alerted the faculty. “We received emails about him from the administration,” Mr. Gard said in an interview, adding that he did not recall the specific issues.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/14/us/n ... oting.html

Tipsters contacted the FBI. But the FBI did nothing.

FBI was warned about alleged shooter nearly 5 months ago, tipster says

Ben Bennight, the 36-year-old YouTube video blogger from Mississippi, noticed in September an alarming comment on a video he'd posted. He told CNN he immediately contacted the FBI.
"Im going to be a professional school shooter," read the comment, left by a user with the name Nikolas Cruz, the same name of the suspected shooter who opened fire at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School on Wednesday, killing at least 17 people.
A law enforcement official told CNN earlier Thursday the FBI had received two reports regarding potential threats from the shooter.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/nikol ... index.html

And an armed policeman assigned to the school did nothing while the shootings were occurring.

Armed school resource officer stayed outside as Florida shooting unfolded, sheriff says

Parkland, Florida (CNN)The armed school resource deputy at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, waited outside the school building as the shooting unfolded last week, officials said.

Scot Peterson never went in after taking a position on the west side of the building, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said at a Thursday afternoon news conference.
Peterson resigned after he was suspended without pay by Israel pending an internal investigation into his actions during the shooting that left 17 people dead, Israel said. Peterson was eligible for retirement.
Israel made the decision to suspend Peterson -- who was armed and in uniform at the time of the shooting -- after interviewing the deputy and reviewing footage and witness statements, he said.
"What I saw was a deputy arrive at the west side of building 12, take up a position," Israel said of the video. "And he never went in."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/22/us/flori ... index.html

[Redman]

He did as much as
1) the police...on their way
2) the Entire anti gun lobby and all its supporters.

He out performed 1 and 2...By being there.

What could have happened if he acted

[De Dragon]

^^^ Yes, that's a legitimate solution, more guns. Who are to be the holder of these guns? Teachers? Safety Officers? Yes, according to Orange Cancer. Imagine acknowledging a problem so serious as to advocate arming teachers, but nothing on proactively limiting access to AR-15 type weapons for kids. What the actual fack!

You clearly don't understand the word proactive.
Continue the fight on policy.
By all means try to ban the guns.
The ban on guns will work ...just like the ban on drugs.
Except that you have constitutional challenges to face at every level.
So right or wrong it will take years.
At best.

What until then?
What do you suggest to prevent a shooting next month.?

If your kids in a school that is targeted...would you prefer a defense using a legislative agenda?
Or a weapon capable of stopping the threat in order to save the kids.?

Your hypocrisy is what you need to acknowledge.

Like how you and ED ascribe "limit" and "control" the same meaning as ban?
You're being ridiculous and obstinate now, but that is always your fall back position when challenged with facts. You asked for armed officials in the school. Well fack us all, there was one! A mofoing DEPUTY too! I mean if a deputy freezes, a teacher is sure to drop a dime on a shooter ent? The deputy didn't act, so you now claim that more armed personnel are needed. Might as well move the entire Sheriff's Dept. in there while you're at it

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

In order to make guns harder to acquire, you would need to abolish the second amendment. Then politicians can do as they please by easily disarming everyone, in any event California already has strict gun control that goes against the Second Amendment that has never stopped the gun violence, vagrancy and crime, which is one of the highest in the US. Look at Chicago one of the toughest gun control laws, with state laws that goes against the second amendment and federal laws and yet it has the highest murder rate like 3000 murders in 2016

This is nothing new with libtards, for example libtards came up with "hate speech" something that does not exist, it is a way to silence opposing views. If you have free speech then there is no such thing as "hate speech" you can't have both you have to pick either one. Free speech is free speech, and there is nothing more to it.

If they get rid of the second amendment, they will come just like Trinidad where you have to go to 1 man for a license to own a fire arm, you know that one obese PNM man who looks like he never washed his ears in 10 years?

It Amazes me that UNC people this retarded to not understand such a basic thing regarding gun control, UNC people are supposed to be the smart ones yet PNM people like Redman making allyuh look like retarded cacaholes

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

To be fair the answer may not be more guns. An armed officer was present at this last shooting and did nothing. Literally did nothing but chill.

So because one security officer had a doh care attitude that means everybody with a gun would have a doh care attitude?

Who hired an incompetent security officer? and why isn't more teachers trained in the use of fire arms? if every teacher in every class room had a gun the killer would be dead. Infact he wouldn't bother to go in the school in the first place the only reason he went is because he knew nobody was there to stop him.

Most teachers are liberals, because most higher education institutes in the US like 98% are liberal, so they are taught that guns are bad and you should never use one.

As usual liberalism at its finest.

[De Dragon]

To be fair the answer may not be more guns. An armed officer was present at this last shooting and did nothing. Literally did nothing but chill.

So because one security officer had a doh care attitude that means everybody with a gun would have a doh care attitude?

Who hired an incompetent security officer? and why isn't more teachers trained in the use of fire arms? if every teacher in every class room had a gun the killer would be dead. Infact he wouldn't bother to go in the school in the first place the only reason he went is because he knew nobody was there to stop him.

Most teachers are liberals, because most higher education institutes in the US like 98% are liberal, so they are taught that guns are bad and you should never use one.

As usual liberalism at its finest.

Because they shouldn't have to What compels a teacher to risk their life as part of teaching? If you're worried about the Second Amendment but suggesting making teachers bear arms, well you're in for a bitter disappointment.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

To be fair the answer may not be more guns. An armed officer was present at this last shooting and did nothing. Literally did nothing but chill.

So because one security officer had a doh care attitude that means everybody with a gun would have a doh care attitude?

Who hired an incompetent security officer? and why isn't more teachers trained in the use of fire arms? if every teacher in every class room had a gun the killer would be dead. Infact he wouldn't bother to go in the school in the first place the only reason he went is because he knew nobody was there to stop him.

Most teachers are liberals, because most higher education institutes in the US like 98% are liberal, so they are taught that guns are bad and you should never use one.

As usual liberalism at its finest.

To be fair common sense never was your strong point.

[Redman]

^^^ Yes, that's a legitimate solution, more guns. Who are to be the holder of these guns? Teachers? Safety Officers? Yes, according to Orange Cancer. Imagine acknowledging a problem so serious as to advocate arming teachers, but nothing on proactively limiting access to AR-15 type weapons for kids. What the actual fack!

You clearly don't understand the word proactive.
Continue the fight on policy.
By all means try to ban the guns.
The ban on guns will work ...just like the ban on drugs.
Except that you have constitutional challenges to face at every level.
So right or wrong it will take years.
At best.

What until then?
What do you suggest to prevent a shooting next month.?

If your kids in a school that is targeted...would you prefer a defense using a legislative agenda?
Or a weapon capable of stopping the threat in order to save the kids.?

Your hypocrisy is what you need to acknowledge.

Like how you and ED ascribe "limit" and "control" the same meaning as ban?
You're being ridiculous and obstinate now, but that is always your fall back position when challenged with facts. You asked for armed officials in the school. Well fack us all, there was one! A mofoing DEPUTY too! I mean if a deputy freezes, a teacher is sure to drop a dime on a shooter ent? The deputy didn't act, so you now claim that more armed personnel are needed. Might as well move the entire Sheriff's Dept. in there while you're at it

After all of that you still did not answer the question.

Any ban or control or limitation will take years.....that's the point.
What will dragon do till then?

If your kids are in a school and there is a shooter there...
Would you prefer some one pelt a legislative agenda...or there be some one designated and armed to defend the kids.?


As usual you criticize without making any useful contribution.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

[wagonrunner]

[shogun]

Not one but four sheriff’s deputies hid behind cars instead of storming Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS in Parkland, Fla., during Wednesday’s school shooting, police claimed Friday — as newly released records revealed the Broward County Sheriff’s Office had received at least 18 calls about the troubled teen over the past decade.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/23/four-sher ... -shooting/

[Redman]

Aaron Feis....a teacher that shielded kids with his body....fatally shot..you think he would have wanted a fire arm?
Officer Heinrich...Coral Springs Sheriffs Dept....ran into the building.Along with other CS Officers.

Broward County SD...seems to have institutional failures...they were advised of Cruz...and failed to act on multiple occasions.

Question....which teacher would you want in your kids class with a shooter on the compound....Mr Feis...or..some one like those referenced by wagon runner above?

Question: YOU are outside your kids school, with a shooter inside....what do you do?
Would you want to be armed or not?

[Redman]

It's coming out that Broward had an ongoing system of fudging reports and evidence...in order to reduce the reported levels of crime.

[Miktay]

Coral springs police making Broward County Sherrif look like cowards.

Four armed officers and years of warnings did nothing to stop Nikolas Cruz from massacring 17 people at a high school.

Not one but four sheriff’s deputies hid behind cars instead of storming Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS in Parkland, Fla., during Wednesday’s school shooting, police claimed Friday — as newly released records revealed the Broward County Sheriff’s Office had received at least 18 calls about the troubled teen over the past decade.

Sources from Coral Springs, Fla., Police Department tell CNN that when its officers arrived on the scene Wednesday, they were shocked to find three Broward County Sheriff’s deputies behind their cars with weapons drawn.

The school’s armed resource officer, Broward County Sheriff’s Deputy Scot Peterson, was also outside. He resigned on Thursday after his failure to act was publicly revealed...

...News of the deputies’ apparent inaction came after the sheriff’s office released records showing how many times it had received alarming reports about Cruz, 19, over the years — including two that specifically warned he was a potential school shooter.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/23/four-sher ... bc9df7201c

[88sins]

Coral springs police making Broward County Sherrif look like cowards.

Four armed officers and years of warnings did nothing to stop Nikolas Cruz from massacring 17 people at a high school.

Not one but four sheriff’s deputies hid behind cars instead of storming Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS in Parkland, Fla., during Wednesday’s school shooting, police claimed Friday — as newly released records revealed the Broward County Sheriff’s Office had received at least 18 calls about the troubled teen over the past decade.

Sources from Coral Springs, Fla., Police Department tell CNN that when its officers arrived on the scene Wednesday, they were shocked to find three Broward County Sheriff’s deputies behind their cars with weapons drawn.

The school’s armed resource officer, Broward County Sheriff’s Deputy Scot Peterson, was also outside. He resigned on Thursday after his failure to act was publicly revealed...

...News of the deputies’ apparent inaction came after the sheriff’s office released records showing how many times it had received alarming reports about Cruz, 19, over the years — including two that specifically warned he was a potential school shooter.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/23/four-sher ... bc9df7201c

wonders if ppl will rename them the Coward County Sheriffs dept now

[De Dragon]

Not one but four sheriff’s deputies hid behind cars instead of storming Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS in Parkland, Fla., during Wednesday’s school shooting, police claimed Friday — as newly released records revealed the Broward County Sheriff’s Office had received at least 18 calls about the troubled teen over the past decade.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/23/four-sher ... -shooting/

This sheit gets worse with each revelation. Redman's short sighted, ridiculous solution of course, is to have the US Army, Marines, Navy, Air Force, National Guard, FBI, CIA, NSA, Dept of Homeland Security, ICE, and Coast Guard at every school.

[Redman]

Nah...save the guns to protect important stuff...like banks,VIPs, and movie stars.
I still waiting on a good suggestion from you.

[De Dragon]

Nah...save the guns to protect important stuff...like banks,VIPs, and movie stars.
I still waiting on a good suggestion from you.

Outright ban on assault rifles for under 21. Ban bump stocks, limit capacity of magazines. Ban lobbying from firearm dealers and the NRA. Special interest money is wreaking havoc on the system as it is presently.
Most importantly, don't arm many people in schools. That's just impractical and silly.

[Redman]

What's your time line for implementation?
Factor in legal and constitutional rights challenges.

tells me how you will force collection of all these guns you are targeting.

Tell me how this will help schools Next week.