Petrotrin refinery shut down

[Numb3r4]

They set fire to the drilling office in Santa Flora last night.

[nervewrecker]

They set fire to the drilling office in Santa Flora last night.

Confirmed or rumour?

[Joshie23]

I don't think that Rowley gets a pass because of the PNM, I think he gets a pass because people are seeing this as a rational decision. Manning used to speak out both sides of his mouth a lot of the time. Manning was always concerned about being popular and being liked. Rowley not on that. I also think that the unions know who they could bully. They could have bullied manning, kamla and panday because their voting strength lay in those areas. How you gonna bully JUHN? Alluh forget how Patois used to do corruption. If you want to see corruption just remember all the "community leaders" who used to get state contracts for years. All the crime in TnT yuh cud place by his feet.

What does Massy's $50 ham has to do with the PNM? Are you saying that Tru Value's ham deal also linked to PNM? Now you just reaching. Do you even know the Massy family and what their political views are? Massy name in everyone mouth all of a sudden. A simple rebaranding and now everybody have an idea as to the conglomerate that is Massy. Newsflash, a conglomerate is a normal business corporation. There is nothing sinister about it. In trinidad, they are actually very tiny and insignificant. If you want to see their impact just research the japanese kairetsu's such as Mitsubishi.

That's what life is like in Trinidad. Everything is a hush hush. When jobs are hiring, they do it hush hush. When party tickets are available they do it hush hush. When government making deals with taxpayers money they do it hush hush. You can't get vex now when this type of culture has been allowed to fester for decades.

Kamla had no moral authority to close down Petrotrin due to inefficiencies or corruption. You remember SIS being formed overnight and basically winning every contract. How you gonna be blatantly corrupt and then go and take food from Petrotrin wokers mouths. It doh work so.

I like logical and brutally honest people, but at the very least, don't do it conveniently. Be consistent. You mentioned Kamla and the NGC, SIS, bla bla bla. You mentioned Manning and Hyatt and community leaders, bla bla bla. Have we conveniently forgotten the affiliations between Kenson, Damus and the red party, both companies whom have been conveniently (and probably without transparency) selected to provide services to the new organisations. Can't forget the security company. No one sees a problem with this?

Any notion of this being a 'rational' decision goes out the window when one considers 1) the lack of transparency from the beginning 2) the lack of accountability from the beginning. I mean, you all beat up about the $45,000 of your 'tax payers dollars', but went dead silent when Frankie justified the $1.7MM payment for absolutely nothing Then again, this is the same society that was appalled when Frankie said a permanent employee makes more money than he does at $45,000, yet, applauded and even justified the new CEO's $240,000. Ay, allyuh good, oui.

Rumor is refinery to be sold. New owner to hire back certain persons to start up refinery. Fewer persons employed to run refinery. Hearing rumors about Shell.

Wouldn't this just prove the point that Petrotrin was overstaffed?

It's still funny to hear this argument. Another convenient ommission of fact. Overstaffed fine, but where? Would you pay overtime if your company had more than enough people to relieve shifts? The media and the Gov't play you all so much that you lose track of information. Remember when Stuart Young was interrogating Messrs. Harewood and Derrick last year on the high OT bill?? Then just like that, the rhetoric changed. It went back to it's overstaffed and they're overpaid, and like the run of the mill Trinidadian complete with the 10 days memory package, we took it and ran with it. The media could tell a story where the headline completely opposes the content and still, people would run away with it. Like the Guardian article, where the headline spoke about the $400MM OT bill, the article spoke about Stuart Young rounding up the figure Mr. Harewood put out and the calculated ACTUAL figure being over $150MM less than what the headline stated. Which one do you think Trini's remembered?

Like I said before, allyuh good, si. In Spanish this time.

[kstt]

They set fire to the drilling office in Santa Flora last night.

Confirmed or rumour?

Have a video circulating.

Yet another old unoccupied unimportant building gone

[Cantmis]

Refinery will be back up and running... guaranteed!!!

[INHUMAN]

pnm-ites be like

https://imgur.com/qBgRSYY

[matr1x]

They can't keep a household running, they will run a country?

[Numb3r4]

They set fire to the drilling office in Santa Flora last night.

Confirmed or rumour?

Have a video circulating.

Yet another old unoccupied unimportant building gone

No not really up until 2014, the conference room was in full use the A/C units in good condition. Even upstairs, the offices had decent computers and printers, a pretty big RICOH unit.

I do believe that their was a network switch in there as well.
Also I believe that the Trinmar drilling and workover outfit was moved to that building.

To be honest though don't know what happened after 2014 though so it could be.

[hydroep]

From Petrotrin to pressure
Former workers face tough times after closure
Richardson Dhalai


One day after its official shut down, former Petrotrin employees are attempting to make the transition back into the world of work.

For former temporary employee Khalifa Phillip this means having to work fourteen hours a day at two different jobs to pay her bills. Phillip, who was one month shy of completing 14 years’ service as a temporary employee, did not qualify for severance payments. She has not worked at the company since August 25, 2018.

“Nothing has changed, we have been ignored and are still being ignored.”

She said her last pay slip showed she would only be receiving a tax rebate while back pay remained outstanding.

“I received my tax rebate only, I am still waiting on back pay which I am entitled to. As it is now I am already working two jobs 14 hours a day because I have bills to pay. It was the first thing I could get, jobs where people are not unionised and get a salary but I have no choice.’

Meanwhile, a former permanent employee, who requested anonymity, said he had initially applied to Heritage Petroleum but had not been selected although he had 28 years’ service with Petrotrin.

“I had applied to the new company but was subsequently called by a contractor (name called) and we went through the process and (I was) given a three-month contract. I am now working for a contractor who would be doing work for Heritage.”

And what advice does he have for former employees.

“Don’t give up hope. If you look at history itself, when one door closes there is another opportunity available, you just have to grasp at whatever opportunity that exists. It may be that it encourages you to further develop yourself.”

And this is exactly what former Petrotrin estate constable Gabriel O’Souna is doing – taking courses to improve his marketability.

However, he said several workers have signalled their intention to initiate legal action against the company regarding their severance packages.

“Hopefully we will received our severance on Monday but definitely we will be seeking the advice of an attorney as of Monday and see what could come out of that because legal action is inevitable at this point. These people have been humiliating us and treating us as modern-day slaves and we cannot accept that.”

He said they had been given pay slips for their final salaries and back pay but that had not included severance payments.

“We haven’t seen the severance reflected in the payslips but, as they said, we must do our income tax returns before we receive severance.”

“I don’t understand how that works because the Severance Act is not subject to taxation according to the law, one thing has nothing to do with the other, why is it you must hold the severance to ransom.”

“We would have probably gotten our TD 4 probably in the same period you all announce the closure of Petrotrin so it is really untimely and unfair. I just think they playing games.”

The former estate constable said Amalgamated Security Services personnel would not last long as their staff had not been trained to operate in an oil refinery environment.

“They will not last long. Nobody would want to be in that environment for a period of time. You cannot stay in that refinery for more than eight hours at a time. Several studies have shown that it poses an undue risk to them so they are not going to last long, they will be hospitalised.”

He said although the refinery had been shut down, one of its successor company’s, Paria Fuel Trading Company would still be involved in the importation and blending of fuels for the local market.

“You still going to have blending that would take place, the octane rate that might be imported will be lower than what we use here and these fellas not trained to deal with that. You are going to get a high sick leave rate due to inhalation of the fumes.”

Meanwhile, an uneasy calm has descended at the now defunct Petrotrin’s Santa Flora headquarters after Friday evening’s protest action in which three large mobile rigs were used to block access to the industrial compound and a field road leading to a small village. Reports indicate that the rigs’ tyres were deflated and the fluid lines severed.

According to reports, workers had initially staged a peaceful sit-in demonstration at the compound on Friday evening after they were not paid their final month’s salaries and severance packages.

Petrotrin was officially shut down on November 30.

The sit-in action reportedly continued until 3 am when workers were informed that salary payments had been deposited into their respective bank accounts. However, that did not include severance payments.

OWTU chief education officer Ozzi Warwick said the workers had left the site although several had not yet received either their severance or salary payments.

“It’s a mixed bag, some people get some, people did not get, it’s really confusing. But I can confirm that people did not get their severance packages.”

https://newsday.co.tt/2018/12/02/from-petrotrin-to-pressure/

[hydroep]

Petrotrin settles debts, fights sabotage
Carla Bridglal

Termination and other exit payments owed to Petrotrin’s workers as part of a $2.7 billion compensation settlement have finally started appearing in bank accounts and will continue to be processed throughout the weekend.

The disbursement of funds began on Friday – also the final day of operations at the 101-year-old Pointe-a-Pierre refinery. In a release yesterday, Trinidad Petroleum Holdings Ltd, the newly formed holding company that will manage the assets of a deconstructed Petrotrin, said commercial banks expect the transfers to be completed by Monday, when all workers should have their funds in their accounts.

The payments are part of the company’s $1.8 billion in termination packages, $201 million for outstanding vacation, $560 million in backpay, $150 million for medical and other benefits and $55 million in payments for outstanding promotions.

All 3,400 permanent employees received exit payments and 1,229 or 55 per cent of the company’s temporary workers received ex gratia payments.

The company claimed that since $2.7 billion was “unprecedented” it took longer than anticipated to process.

In a second release yesterday, Trinidad Petroleum, said it had been “forced to suspend all access to its facilities by non-essential personnel following several incidents of vandalism, sabotage and obstruction by union members and other workers” on Friday.

The damage and destruction included vandalism to mobile oil field equipment, a fire tender, state property and privately owned vehicles.

The company said the closure was “critical to ensure the safety and well-being of all legitimate personnel and to protect and preserve valuable state assets.”

With immediate effect, only people with valid identification, specific company passes, and who are listed for access will be allowed into to the company’s facilities, no exceptions.

Heritage Petroleum Company Ltd, established to take over Petrotrin’s exploration and production business, also sent out a release yesterday, its first official day, to say it was investigating “acts of sabotage” on one of its lines in Grand Reviere, Rancho Quemado on Friday. A 2.7-inch flow line was visibly severed and about five barrels of oil spilled. The spill was contained in an area of about 20 feet and there was no environmental damage. The line has since been repaired and about 80 per cent of the oil recovered. The company said it was working with the authorities and plans to ensure those responsible are prosecuted.

https://newsday.co.tt/2018/12/02/petrotrin-settles-debts-fights-sabotage/

[kstt]

They set fire to the drilling office in Santa Flora last night.

Confirmed or rumour?

Have a video circulating.

Yet another old unoccupied unimportant building gone

No not really up until 2014, the conference room was in full use the A/C units in good condition. Even upstairs, the offices had decent computers and printers, a pretty big RICOH unit.

I do believe that their was a network switch in there as well.
Also I believe that the Trinmar drilling and workover outfit was moved to that building.

To be honest though don't know what happened after 2014 though so it could be.

Firstly we in 2018 if you not aware and you talking sbout 2014.That building was abandoned bai. It was declared unsafe and unfit for occupation. It was vacated and a new drilling office built.

[Redman]

Rumor is refinery to be sold. New owner to hire back certain persons to start up refinery. Fewer persons employed to run refinery. Hearing rumors about Shell.

Wouldn't this just prove the point that Petrotrin was overstaffed?

I don’t think it was ever in question that the company was not overstaffed. The same Solomon’s report that people were sharing mentions that there was too much man power but you can’t just go firing people to solve problems. Increased use of technology needed before reducing staffing figures. New refinery owner would spend money on refinery first before starting back up. Meaning spending on technology and critically needed repairs. Basically you can’t run a refinery poorly and expect no problems. If the refinery does start back up under Shell or new owner successfully and also sustainably one has to ask basically why couldn’t we have run it ourselves? Top down management wise why weren’t good decisions made consistently?

A2B...
I was made to understand that there were these discussions WITH the union being an on going part.
The union leadership dug their heels in.
Whether this represents the general POV of the membership is pretty unclear up to now.
With agreements out 10-15 years you had an entity that was cornered by people that said no one goes home.

With that being the position who would agree to come in and commit capital,sink irrecoverable funds while your timelines remain at the behest of the MAN that sent the BP rig packing?


With all the complaints,political noise and labelling..aside,

All 1.4 of US need a functioning productive entity that is producing at whatever is determined to be an optimal level.

We need that more than a inefficient behemoth that isnt optimally producing the resources and failing to exploit the oppurtunities as they appear.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Rumor is refinery to be sold. New owner to hire back certain persons to start up refinery. Fewer persons employed to run refinery. Hearing rumors about Shell.

Wouldn't this just prove the point that Petrotrin was overstaffed?

I don’t think it was ever in question that the company was not overstaffed. The same Solomon’s report that people were sharing mentions that there was too much man power but you can’t just go firing people to solve problems. Increased use of technology needed before reducing staffing figures. New refinery owner would spend money on refinery first before starting back up. Meaning spending on technology and critically needed repairs. Basically you can’t run a refinery poorly and expect no problems. If the refinery does start back up under Shell or new owner successfully and also sustainably one has to ask basically why couldn’t we have run it ourselves? Top down management wise why weren’t good decisions made consistently?

A2B...
I was made to understand that there were these discussions WITH the union being an on going part.
The union leadership dug their heels in.
Whether this represents the general POV of the membership is pretty unclear up to now.
With agreements out 10-15 years you had an entity that was cornered by people that said no one goes home.

With that being the position who would agree to come in and commit capital,sink irrecoverable funds while your timelines remain at the behest of the MAN that sent the BP rig packing?


With all the complaints,political noise and labelling..aside,

All 1.4 of US need a functioning productive entity that is producing at whatever is determined to be an optimal level.

We need that more than a inefficient behemoth that isnt optimally producing the resources and failing to exploit the oppurtunities as they appear.

I would agree with you if this entire arrangement was handled better. I would agree with you if money wasn’t easily found to pay severance and pay a person for no work just after hiring him. I would agree with you if large sums of money didn’t have to be injected into the pension fund thus driving up the cost of this shutdown. This sort of money could have been reinvested in the company. I would have agreed with you if the job structures for Heritage did not include so many managers cuz it seems very similar to the old Petrotrin with unnecessary positions as the details trickle out with each job advertisement.

I could go on but essentially it feels like a nuclear response where the outcome was not thoroughly thought out. Union was so much of an obstacle? They used to make you make bad decisions? These questions don’t come from someone telling me stories either. It’s from observing things from within the company so I know when parties, be it government, company or union is lying. Too much spin and mistakes by all involved.

It basically feels as if the same mistakes are being made and will be made decision wise in the future. Petrotrin would make a nice case study with details about *all* aspects of problems minus the spin put out from company, union and government side.

I really hope they know what they’re doing.

[Redman]

Well the Union Lying
GORTT lying
Petrotrin Lying

But again YES. For better or for worse the union had ironclad agreements out to 2030.

You think any political party will do this if it was not necessary?


And before the XYZ till ah ded argument comes in-the swing vote gets the winner past the post.

[rebound]

^^^that is the correct summary of the situation..I totally agree with you there...

[sMASH]

Rumor is refinery to be sold. New owner to hire back certain persons to start up refinery. Fewer persons employed to run refinery. Hearing rumors about Shell.

Wouldn't this just prove the point that Petrotrin was overstaffed?

I don’t think it was ever in question that the company was not overstaffed. The same Solomon’s report that people were sharing mentions that there was too much man power but you can’t just go firing people to solve problems. Increased use of technology needed before reducing staffing figures. New refinery owner would spend money on refinery first before starting back up. Meaning spending on technology and critically needed repairs. Basically you can’t run a refinery poorly and expect no problems. If the refinery does start back up under Shell or new owner successfully and also sustainably one has to ask basically why couldn’t we have run it ourselves? Top down management wise why weren’t good decisions made consistently?

A2B...
I was made to understand that there were these discussions WITH the union being an on going part.
The union leadership dug their heels in.
Whether this represents the general POV of the membership is pretty unclear up to now.
With agreements out 10-15 years you had an entity that was cornered by people that said no one goes home.

With that being the position who would agree to come in and commit capital,sink irrecoverable funds while your timelines remain at the behest of the MAN that sent the BP rig packing?


With all the complaints,political noise and labelling..aside,

All 1.4 of US need a functioning productive entity that is producing at whatever is determined to be an optimal level.

We need that more than a inefficient behemoth that isnt optimally producing the resources and failing to exploit the oppurtunities as they appear.

management is not totally powerless to unions as the government has led u to believe... look how easy it is they made a decision and acted on it, and the union could do little.
the same money they pump into the 'shut down', just take a portion, relive ur management, introduce a private management team, that would have had share owner ship on petrotrin. and float those shares on the stock market. see how quickly ur money pit levels out.

sh!tkicker saying they should not be running no business. well private management with share ownership will let the business be run efficently, while the share owner ship will get u the earnings.


but, no. this was just to get rid of union, remain in business while selling off to ur padnahs, getting a retirement parachute in an offshore account.

espinet still have he wuk,,,, or two.

[neilsingh100]

The government is doing the right thing with Petrotrin, their execution might not be the best but in the medium to long term the energy sector and country as a whole will benefit.

[Joshie23]

Redman actually makes some sense but sMASH and A2B have the right idea.

As that neil guy, there is no right way to do the wrong thing. Likewise, there is no wrong way to do the right thing, and I'll continue to ask, if this was indefinitely the right way to go, why did the GoRTT have to lie so much along the way? I know they're politicians but damn, they overdid it! Why did the have to go out of their way to create certain rhetoric and animosity, to convince even the workers that they'd go home with 'enhanced packages' and none would leave empty handed, when on Friday, 600 people said otherwise..??

In close, I can't take seriously, people who overlook things because it's convenient to their argument and not that it matters at this point, but to say 'their execution wasn't the best' is putting it lightly and outright disrespectful to the employees with several years of service that went home with little, if anything at all in the face of a man that receiving over $1.7MM simply because someone firetrucked up and he signed a contract. We make kicks off of 'sufferers' on 2NR, but, bmt, I actually know what struggle is so like I said before, I honestly hope none of you that looked forward to these job losses, ever have to suffer yourselves, because there were alternatives and while there are no emotions in business, some of you were disgusting.

/rant

[Redman]

Alternatives to what
What they doing or how they doing it.?

And frankly the lies coming from all sides...we should set up a truth commission.

[skylinechild]

Alternatives to what
What they doing or how they doing it.?

And frankly the lies coming from all sides...we should set up a truth commission.

commission of truth...?? is it like a commission of inquiry ???

how much of those we had in the past and the results was.......

[The_Honourable]

The truth most likely will come out in a commission of inquiry, but by that time the public would have moved on, most of the players involved would not be around, and there will be enough political footballs to kick to distract us from it.

Plus, nothing happens after an inquiry except begging whoever to make the document public. Then it might get loss in the DPP office and a copy in the corner of UWI library.

[Pointman-IA]

LATT next...

Hmmmm.

Room for the port?

[Numb3r4]

They set fire to the drilling office in Santa Flora last night.

Confirmed or rumour?

Have a video circulating.

Yet another old unoccupied unimportant building gone

No not really up until 2014, the conference room was in full use the A/C units in good condition. Even upstairs, the offices had decent computers and printers, a pretty big RICOH unit.

I do believe that their was a network switch in there as well.
Also I believe that the Trinmar drilling and workover outfit was moved to that building.

To be honest though don't know what happened after 2014 though so it could be.

Firstly we in 2018 if you not aware and you talking sbout 2014.That building was abandoned bai. It was declared unsafe and unfit for occupation. It was vacated and a new drilling office built.

When and where did they build the replacement? The only new building they constructed was the new one in Forest Reserve, and well they were making modifications and improvements to main office in Santa Flora.

Well I'm glad, not that much of a loss then. Still sad though when you consider the history of the building.

[Ben_spanna]

Alternatives to what
What they doing or how they doing it.?

And frankly the lies coming from all sides...we should set up a truth commission.

commission of truth...?? is it like a commission of inquiry ???

how much of those we had in the past and the results was.......

Another commission of inquiry? , all that does is gets more millions into the hands of the government lawyers....... and they in turn distribute It back.......

As for the workers who yelling pressure- really ? One day after they close suddenly you have No money? You know they were going to close yet saw no need to put BACKUP PLAN INTO ACTION? Typical trini mentality, money in meh hand ah partying, money done then I guess I’ll have To complain or have to go to work....

[kstt]

https://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/lo ... uXBR0AU3iQ

More potholes in we ras!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

[Redman]

So who paid the separation package...GORTT or the pension fund?????

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

So who paid the separation package...GORTT or the pension fund?????

paid? you mean "will be paying"

Petrotrin fails to meet full final payment
Workers protest on last day

The fi­nal day of Petrotrin’s op­er­a­tion de­scend­ed in­to chaos yes­ter­day af­ter work­ers claimed the com­pa­ny failed to pay them all their sev­er­ance, salary and oth­er ben­e­fits.

As work­ers packed up their things and be­gan leav­ing the work­place yes­ter­day morn­ing, they ex­pressed sad­ness and un­cer­tain­ty over their fu­ture. But just af­ter mid­day, their emo­tions turned in­to anger as word spread that they were go­ing home emp­ty-hand­ed. Up to 6 pm yes­ter­day, work­ers’ salaries for No­vem­ber were not in their bank ac­counts.

Petrotrin es­tate po­lice of­fi­cer Gabriel O’souna says work­ers will now have to ex­plore what le­gal op­tions are avail­able to them to force the com­pa­ny to pay them.

The com­pa­ny promised to re­mit with­held funds once em­ploy­ees have sat­is­fied the Board of In­land Rev­enue that their tax­es are up to date.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/petrotri ... 43f06dcb35

[ek4ever]

^^^^ funny thing is the now see the need for a train service and want to build one.

Sugar is now King Sugar because it is used as a biofuel

We will live to regret the closing of the refinery yet another failure of the PNM.

Trinidad does not need a Train service. Unless you gonna have fast speed trains moving from Mayaro to Port of Spain and Toco to Pt Fortin then why is there a need for a train service? Don't be fooled that is just another vanity project. Our leaders think that development need to have a certain "look". And no, having the trains not going to put less cars on the roads. Trinis are vain people who need things such as cars to feel good about themselves. Parliamentarians in the UK who make more money, are more qualified and legislate over more important national and international matters still use public transport. The first thing our parliamentarians purchase upon being elected to office is a european car. The irony of it all.

Again, this is what happens when you have leaders who can't see into the future and who are not part of intimate discussions on the way in which the world is going. Caribbean leaders would forever be out of the loop because they just not highly regarded on the world stage.

Not according to world trends that say oil is dead.

Yet countries smaller than Trinidad have train services, Jamaica working to reinstate passenger rail service and other Caribbean countries looking to do the same.

Maybe you forget when Williams bring a man from the Leyland bus company to do an assessment of rail service for Trinidad and he recommended switching from rail to bus....shocking ent?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Yet countries smaller than Trinidad have train services, Jamaica working to reinstate passenger rail service and other Caribbean countries looking to do the same.

Jamaica is more than twice the sq mile area of Trinidad and many parts of the island are remote.
It takes almost 3 hours to drive from Kingston to Montego Bay and almost 4 hours to drive from Kingston to Negril and 3 hours from Negril to Ocho Rios. Those are their major towns.