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Petrotrin refinery to shut down

this is how we do it.......

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby Gladiator » September 18th, 2018, 5:33 pm

The_Honourable wrote:
screwbash wrote:why d workers just taking it in dey behind jus so... where is watson duke, budget suppose to be in 3 week and where is the various chamber of commerce. what obeah d pnm wuk so that no effin body opening dey doubles hole and squaking. the workers need to demand they call ah general election now and let all the caribbean islands come together and bail out petrotRin as trinidad bailing all the arse out for decades. we all need to be out brothers keepers and think of our children. call a dam GENERAL ELECTION NOW !!!!!!!


I'm wondering if is something we get from slavery. Study Roget only praying...

This big bad OWTU we keep hearing for decades, they get complacent since Butler? With all the huff and puff they never thought that they will actually be challenged?

It's like when someone making a set of noise and threatening you. When you challenge them to do something, they just cussing but not doing anything at all.
I feel he sell out... Imagine the impact a march with 5000 petrotrin workers from PT lisas to port of Spain will have... The message that will send

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby gastly369 » September 18th, 2018, 5:41 pm

Tbh time for marching pass...

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby novastar1 » September 18th, 2018, 6:23 pm

Allergic2BunnyEars wrote:The OWTU legally cannot call strike action before 2020. That was one of the terms in the aftermath of the last salary increase in January 2017.
What kind of clause is that?
So this was probably planned since then?

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby kstt » September 18th, 2018, 6:54 pm

Allergic2BunnyEars wrote:The OWTU legally cannot call strike action before 2020. That was one of the terms in the aftermath of the last salary increase in January 2017.


When was Espinet brought to Petrotrin?

Seems this was planned way in advance.

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby vaiostation » September 18th, 2018, 7:08 pm

^^^ The first sign that the refinery was going to shutdown was when they stopped hiring refinery Operators, which was way back in September 2017.

It wasn't by chance that Jupiter and Harewood resigned, and Espinet was hired.

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby hydroep » September 18th, 2018, 7:52 pm

Speaking tonight on CNC 3's Business Watch segment, Espinet said that "it was clear" when the first shutdown announcement was made how many workers would be getting the axe.

Yet he could not explain the confusion among many, including the Prime Minister who quoted incorrect figures in his address to the nation on the Petrotrin issue.

When pressed about said "clarity", Mr. Man became extremely defensive, sarcastically saying that he takes full responsibility for everyone who quoted incorrect figures in Trinidad & Tobago (with respect to this matter)...:|

I eh go lie eh, he came across like an ignorant c#nt in that interview.

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby Allergic2BunnyEars » September 18th, 2018, 7:56 pm

novastar1 wrote:
Allergic2BunnyEars wrote:The OWTU legally cannot call strike action before 2020. That was one of the terms in the aftermath of the last salary increase in January 2017.
What kind of clause is that?
So this was probably planned since then?


I was looking for the article I read but I do remember that particular detail. This was around March 2017 after OWTU and the company went back to the Industrial Court to trash our details with respect to back pay and whatnot for 2014-2017 (or something so) bargaining period.

At the time I found it strange to agree to that but I figured it was in good faith by the Owtu. So yeah that’s why you haven’t heard a peep from the OWTU with respect to striking all this time as if they did it would be a move that negatively affected their position.

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby Allergic2BunnyEars » September 18th, 2018, 8:09 pm

Prime Minister Dr the Honourable Keith Rowley today (Tuesday 18 September, 2018) issued a letter to the President General of the OWTU, Ancel Roget in response to correspondence received today.

Please see full text of letter below.


-BEGIN-

September 18, 2018


The President General
Oilfield Workers Trade Union
99A Circular Road
San Fernando
TRINIDAD

Dear President General,

I have received your correspondence of 10th September, 2018 which contained your Union’s Proposal and suggestions of a business plan for operations at Petrotrin, involving the continuation of the refinery operations.

I have also today received your further correspondence of September 18th, 2018, which appears to repudiate your initial rejection of any involvement of the union in the business aspect of the refinery, as raised by me in my address to the nation on September 02, 2018. I also note in this latest communication your reference to the “ownership of these assets” as a fundamental principle which you are governed by and which I presume determines your view of the nature of this very serious national problem which is Petrotrin. I want to make it abundantly clear that contrary to the many conspiracy theories and the insults that they have spawned, neither the Government of Trinidad and Tobago, the Board of Petrotrin nor any person or agent acting on behalf of the taxpayer, has made any arrangement whatsoever, at this time, to dispose of the refinery assets of Petrotrin.

As you will be aware, at our meeting of August 21, 2018, it was made abundantly clear, by me, that the refinery would cease to operate. This position was arrived at after lengthy, detailed, expert analysis, by the company, taking into account all the components of concern raised in paragraph 2 of your letter today. I also take note of our common position of the need for a restructured Petrotrin with a new mandate which will not require a government guarantee to conduct its business and will not threaten the country’s credit rating. The Board, monitored by the Cabinet, has done exactly that and it is out of the requisite analyses and diagnoses that the Government has taken the very difficult decision to close the refinery.

The restructuring that will follow will see the refinery separated from the company’s business and would then stand alone as an asset for which a future of some sort would have to be designed. It is this development to which I referred when I spoke of “opportunity attention”.

Once the refinery is so cauterized then it would be available for attention in order to ensure that the taxpayers, who are the owners, get whatever value which can be derived from its use or disposal. I want to give you the assurance that if the OWTU is able and willing to present and commit to the rigours of an acceptable business proposal, then the Government will treat it with the dignity and respect it deserves and would be prepared to give the workers some facilitation so long as that is within reasonable business transactional arrangements. If however much more attractive proposals become available then it must be expected that the interest of the taxpayer will take priority.

I have noted that your proposal has been sent to the Board, which has already indicated that if a superior proposal is presented to change the current decision it will not hesitate to treat with it and advise the Cabinet, accordingly. I have not been advised that such a situation now exists.

It should be noted that the Cabinet does not advise itself on this very weighty and complex matter, but instead have carefully used the expertise from all available technical and financial sources before coming to this decision and would in similar manner expect other proposals to have been so subjected.

We are aware that in the short term there will be hardships and concerns of our people to be dealt with, but we have every confidence that in the medium to long term, the outcome will be to the benefit of the wider national community.


Yours in Service

Keith Christopher Rowley
Prime Minister

-END-

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby sMASH » September 18th, 2018, 8:30 pm

Allergic2BunnyEars wrote:The OWTU legally cannot call strike action before 2020. That was one of the terms in the aftermath of the last salary increase in January 2017.


ALLL petrotrin employees will be sent home october 1st. there will be nothing to strike from.

when they get their contracts terminated, they no longer will have majority in petrotrin, so will have to do over the whole process of unionizing the new petrotrin workers.

plus a&v drilling will have nobody pressing charges against thier fake oil operations.

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby gastly369 » September 18th, 2018, 8:33 pm

Blue n white trucks painted and lined up to roll out

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby Curtms » September 18th, 2018, 9:00 pm

Have meh CV waiting...

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby gastly369 » September 18th, 2018, 9:01 pm

Curtms wrote:Have meh CV waiting...
Party card >cv

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby Curtms » September 18th, 2018, 9:15 pm

gastly369 wrote:
Curtms wrote:Have meh CV waiting...
Party card >cv
Have that!

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby jhonnieblue » September 18th, 2018, 9:20 pm

Yup at this point is all about privatization and loyalty. So don't expect a union to get into whatever new entities buy over the assets

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby sinister_14 » September 18th, 2018, 9:28 pm

Curtms wrote:
gastly369 wrote:
Curtms wrote:Have meh CV waiting...
Party card >cv
Have that!
This is why so many people want the refinery closed and re open so they too cud apply for jobs..it really sicken to see how some people does think waiting to see many fall for their personal gain....there are many envious no good small minded persons just like you waiting to apply for jobs at the refinery hope you guys make the cut.....this is why trinidad would never move forward from government to the small man on the street....all thinks the same sad reality we live in....

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby vaiostation » September 18th, 2018, 9:54 pm

Curtms wrote:
gastly369 wrote:
Curtms wrote:Have meh CV waiting...
Party card >cv
Have that!

Hopefully you gt big man...

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby Pointman-IA » September 18th, 2018, 10:49 pm

I have a Massy Card.

I wonder if I can redeem my points for an interview.

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby teems1 » September 18th, 2018, 11:38 pm

kstt wrote:
teems1 wrote:
kstt wrote:

ONE BILLION IS NO KIND OF MONEY TO TALK ABOUT!!


That's the kind of thinking that got Petrotrin to their current financial state.

Instead of saying 4700 workers going home, ask yourself were 4700 workers really needed?

Why still so much outside contractors, understaffed departments and overtime hours logged when you have such a huge workforce.


LOL

Stay quiet if you know nothing about its operations nah bai. You will look lesser of a kaant!
Public entity bro.

If y'all weren't borrowing money from future taxpayers every month to meet operating expenditures then fine.

But y'all ain't making a profit and are squeezing the taxpayers dry.

Btw good job of trying to convince me to keep Petrotrin open. Really good PR ambassador work.

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby sMASH » September 19th, 2018, 4:18 am

September 10, 2018

COP POLITICAL LEADER DEMONSTRATES GOOD CRISIS LEADERSHIP

Can the Prime Minister and his Government emulate her?



It is very unfortunate that the Government, through its main talking heads failed to demonstrate the appropriate respect to the people of this nation when they hosted their public meeting in Marabella last Tuesday. The Political Leader of the Congress of the People (COP), Carolyn Seepersad-Bachan has been tirelessly working on meeting with affected workers and their families and presenting the accurate information at hand with the intent of educating the population on what appears to be government’s intention to sell of state assets without proper consultation or information.

We in the COP however will continue to stay on the high road and stick to the facts as being presented in our cottage meetings across the affected communities.

Subsequent to quoting that the Company’s gross profit margin for fiscal 2017 was over $1 Billion as stated in the audited financial statements, the government and the board sought to give the impression that profits from exploration and production masked the losses in the refining and marketing operations to justifiy the closure of the refinery. In addition, the government has on more than one occasion proffered that the high purchase price of foreign crude oil causes the refining margin to be negative. According to the information revealed by the Political Leader, this is incorrect given that of July 2018, Petrotrin’s Year-to-Date Management Accounts reveal the refining margin is $9-$10 USD per barrel for refined products. Out of this margin $4.50 USD is used to cover operating expenses such as salaries and wages, materials, contracts, gas and utilities and additional $1.00 USD for overheads in the form of Human resource management, corporate services, communication, public relations environmental services, IT and securtity. This leaves a margin of $3.50 USD out of which $2.40 USD is used to service both short term and long term debt leaving a postive cash flow of $1.10 USD. Therefore contrary to public perception Petrotrin has been servicing its short term and long term debt. What causes the negative margin is the non cash adjustments for depreciation and abandonment costs of $2.36 USD resulting in a loss of $1.16 USD.

How do we fix it? Can we? As outlined by the Political Leader, real political leadership will convene a meeting of the minds involving the Unions, employees, the Board and Management of Petrotrin so that there can be cost saving measures. She is of the firm view that the implementation of improved measures including increasing uptime, eliminating overtime, energy efficiency, decreasing non-energy cost, capital expenditure discipline and increasing refining output from 71% to 90% will allow at a minimum savings of $1.00 USD per barrel of refined product in operating expenses. In addition, it is highly possible to reduce overheads by $.50 USD resulting in total savings of $1.50 USD per barrel of refined product. This certainly will cover the book loss of $1.16 USD.

This clearly demonstrates that there is more than one option of closing the refinery where such closure will result in we, the taxpayers, now having to service Petrotrin’s debt going forward. The COP is doing Government’s job in levelling with the public and offering solutions and will continue to do so. Those who have ears will hear.

Jeremy Steffan Edwards – Chairman, COP Youth Congress

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby Allergic2BunnyEars » September 19th, 2018, 6:33 am

Image

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby K_J_R » September 19th, 2018, 7:15 am

teems1 wrote:
But y'all ain't making a profit and are squeezing the taxpayers dry.




Subsequent to quoting that the Company’s gross profit margin for fiscal 2017 was over $1 Billion as stated in the audited financial statements, the government and the board sought to give the impression that profits from exploration and production masked the losses in the refining and marketing operations to justifiy the closure of the refinery.

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby Ben_spanna » September 19th, 2018, 7:39 am

jhonnieblue wrote:Yup at this point is all about privatization and loyalty. So don't expect a union to get into whatever new entities buy over the assets


ABout time Trinidad started to get rid of this virus called the "union" once and for all …….

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby timelapse » September 19th, 2018, 7:54 am

sinister_14 wrote:
Curtms wrote:
gastly369 wrote:
Curtms wrote:Have meh CV waiting...
Party card >cv
Have that!
This is why so many people want the refinery closed and re open so they too cud apply for jobs..it really sicken to see how some people does think waiting to see many fall for their personal gain....there are many envious no good small minded persons just like you waiting to apply for jobs at the refinery hope you guys make the cut.....this is why trinidad would never move forward from government to the small man on the street....all thinks the same sad reality we live in....


Not so nice when the shoe is on the other foot is it?
Wasn't it small minded thinking that got you a job in Petrotrin only if you had somebody working there?

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby hydroep » September 19th, 2018, 7:57 am

So, they're not selling the refinery, they're selling parts of the refinery.

Perhaps we have been looking at this all wrong. By getting rid of the garbage on top, prime lands become available for "astute investors".

They could turn that property into gated community. A lot of the infrastructure is already in place (fence, roads etc.) plus you have tennis courts and a pool at the staff club.

They could also invest in a large hotel on the compound which would address the "lack of close-by visitor accommodation" which would bring the Tarouba Stadium one step closer to ICC certification.

And if push comes to shove they could also put up some HDC voter-padding slums...ah mean houses.

The possibilities are endless...:|

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby Allergic2BunnyEars » September 19th, 2018, 8:01 am

hydroep wrote:So, they're not selling the refinery, they're selling parts of the refinery.

Perhaps we have been looking at this all wrong. By getting rid of the garbage on top, prime lands become available for "astute investors".

They could turn that property into gated community. A lot of the infrastructure is already in place (fence, roads etc.) plus you have tennis courts and a pool at the staff club.

They could also invest in a large hotel on the compound which would address the "lack of close-by visitor accommodation" which would bring the Tarouba Stadium one step closer to ICC certification.

And if push comes to shove they could also put up some HDC voter-padding slums...ah mean houses.

The possibilities are endless...:|


I hope this is sarcasm. My detector is broken this morning.

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby Joshie23 » September 19th, 2018, 9:16 am

teems1 wrote:
kstt wrote:
teems1 wrote:
kstt wrote:

ONE BILLION IS NO KIND OF MONEY TO TALK ABOUT!!


That's the kind of thinking that got Petrotrin to their current financial state.

Instead of saying 4700 workers going home, ask yourself were 4700 workers really needed?

Why still so much outside contractors, understaffed departments and overtime hours logged when you have such a huge workforce.


LOL

Stay quiet if you know nothing about its operations nah bai. You will look lesser of a kaant!
Public entity bro.

If y'all weren't borrowing money from future taxpayers every month to meet operating expenditures then fine.

But y'all ain't making a profit and are squeezing the taxpayers dry.

Btw good job of trying to convince me to keep Petrotrin open. Really good PR ambassador work.


In an attempt to be diplomatic, if your job (disclaimer: not sure if kstt is a Petrotrin employee) or a family members or even a breadwinner's job was on the line and there were several misconceptions, lies by omission and plain old blatant lies peddled by the powers that be to fuel statements like your previous one, you might exert a bit of animosity as well. The statement I placed in red, is a very, very interesting question.

timelapse wrote:
sinister_14 wrote:
Curtms wrote:
gastly369 wrote:
Curtms wrote:Have meh CV waiting...
Party card >cv
Have that!
This is why so many people want the refinery closed and re open so they too cud apply for jobs..it really sicken to see how some people does think waiting to see many fall for their personal gain....there are many envious no good small minded persons just like you waiting to apply for jobs at the refinery hope you guys make the cut.....this is why trinidad would never move forward from government to the small man on the street....all thinks the same sad reality we live in....


Not so nice when the shoe is on the other foot is it?
Wasn't it small minded thinking that got you a job in Petrotrin only if you had somebody working there?


Lol. You can't tell me that you don't know someone working Petrotrin..where is your Petrotrin wok?? Unless you're not living in Trinidad, in which case forget I said anything.

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby kstt » September 19th, 2018, 9:21 am

Look at the state of UTT!!

But Petrotrin hire Campbell to fix it and he coming from UTT

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby Dizzy28 » September 19th, 2018, 9:25 am

OWTU massing outside Hyatt currently. Who they meeting with today??

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby ADONI » September 19th, 2018, 9:31 am

Petrotrin have money to go rent Hyatt???

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Re: Petrotrin refinery to shut down

Postby Allergic2BunnyEars » September 19th, 2018, 9:32 am

Dizzy28 wrote:OWTU massing outside Hyatt currently. Who they meeting with today??


Doh be fraid bai. Go check them and ask nah. Report back when you do.

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