TOYOTA vehicles rated the world's most reliable in 2019

Slartibartfast · Postby **Slartibartfast** » February 26th, 2019, 12:37 pm

Rory Phoulorie wrote:
Don Mohammed wrote:Be minded that Trinidad don’t get top quality vehicles. Example a local Pathfinder in Trinidad is of lower quality of one assembled in the US. People don’t judge the brands based on the vehicles in Trinidad. One Toyota Trinidad best vehicle is the Prado; Trinidad would never see top Toyota vehicles such as the Tundra and Surf assembled locally

And you know this how exactly? Massy Motors buys second and third grade vehicles and sells them in Trinidad at premium prices?

This would also assume that Toyota invested in building separate manufacturing facilities to be able to assemble cars that at then end of the day may hurt their reputation/ brand and/or will only be able to be sold with a lower profit per unit and in a significantly smaller market.

Maybe I'm missing something....

maj. tom · Postby **maj. tom** » February 26th, 2019, 12:53 pm

Yes you are. And this rabbit hole goes way, way deeper that I am aware. Let me share what I do know:

USA/CAN/EU have laws to ensure the quality of the vehicles sold there are higher than their counterparts aimed at 3rd world markets. And USA law only allows all cars are manufactured and assembled within USA. Airbags is an easy way to see this. Base models in those countries must have 8 airbags, base models here have 2.

So try searching for a VIN number from a vehicle bought from Toyota Trinidad on the Toyota website. Error. Even though it's 17 digits, it's not in the same bracket as the USA/CAN/EU standards. One thing I am sure about is that the 2014 RAV4s sold here are made for the Malaysian/Australian market. (This is how is started discovering the world of grey market imports).

Yes guys, all these companies have plants all over the world, from Egypt to France, to Turkey, to UK, to Indonesia. You all really thought they manufacture millions of cars a year in 1 place in Japan, not to mention the millions of engines they make for other companies like Ford and GM? They are all aligned for their specific markets. Fully loaded JDM cars are nice, but most RORO cars that are exported are "Base models" with manufacturer specific options. Depending on the market. Those cars that the local dealers are selling here are "0 mileage" cars. They have features based on the market. You can order any specifics you want from Toyota in Japan for your vehicles that you're going to sell here. It's a franchise, like KFC. Why they do this? It's cheaper, that's all. Easy to skirt around certain laws that don't exist in 3rd world markets and save a lot of money in manufacturing and assembly. These cars should cost us less though right? lol.

They're not even hurting their reputation. Because what choice do you have? You really think you're getting the same USA/Canada/EU quality vehicles from our local authorized stealerships at even higher prices that they cost in USA fully loaded? They're called grey-market vehicles.

Sources:
https://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=804&q=244900
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_import_vehicle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_market#Automobiles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_domestic_market
https://jalopnik.com/have-you-ever-boug ... 1761356291
http://lemonlawautofraud.com/disclosure ... t-vehicles
http://japancarhistorycheck.com/whats-m ... -code-vin/

oh btw, all RORO cars have their mileage turned back on the ports in Japan by whatever companies the dealers here buy from. You really think a domestic car in Japan would have 20,000 km? or less than 100, 000 km? Those would cost close to new market prices. They then sign the invoice in Japan when they're loading the ships with the rolled back mileage. Maybe the local RORO dealers here choose to be ignorant of this.

Try these websites to get some basic info on the chassis/VIN number of your local vehicle if the regular websites (most VIN decoder website are for standard USA VIN coding) aren't accepting your 17-digit code or as in the case of JDM cars 11-digit chassis code.
https://uk.vin-info.com/
https://www.autodna.com/
https://www.japan-partner.com/check-man ... e-year.php
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/q?vin= ( this one shows the intended market for Toyota)

Slartibartfast · Postby **Slartibartfast** » February 26th, 2019, 1:24 pm

maj. tom wrote:Yes you are. And this rabbit hole goes way, way deeper that I am aware. Let me share what I do know:

USA/CAN/EU have laws to ensure the quality of the vehicles sold there are higher than their counterparts aimed at 3rd world markets. And USA law only allows all cars are manufactured and assembled within USA. Airbags is an easy way to see this. Base models in those countries must have 8 airbags, base models here have 2.

So try searching for a VIN number from a vehicle bought from Toyota Trinidad on the Toyota website. Error. Even though it's 17 digits, it's not in the same bracket as the USA/CAN/EU standards. One thing I am sure about is that the 2014 Rav4s sold here are made for the Malaysian/Australian market. (This is how is started discovering the world of grey market imports).

Yes guys, all these companies have plants all over the world, from Egypt to France, to Turkey, to UK, to Indonesia. You all really thought they manufacture millions of cars a year in 1 place in Japan, not to mention the millions of engines they make for other companies like Ford and GM? They are all aligned for their specific markets. Fully loaded JDM cars are nice, but most RORO cars that are exported are "Base models" with manufacturer specific options. Depending on the market. Those cars that the local dealers are selling here are "0 mileage" cars. They have features based on the market. You can order any specifics you want from Toyota in Japan for your vehicles that you're going to sell here. It's a franchise, like KFC. Why they do this? It's cheaper, that's all. Easy to skirt around certain laws that don't exist in 3rd world markets and save a lot of money in manufacturing and assembly. These cars should cost us less though right? lol.

They're not even hurting their reputation. Because what choice do you have? You really think you're getting the same USA/Canada/EU quality vehicles from our local authorized stealerships at even higher prices that they cost in USA fully loaded? They're called grey-market vehicles.

Sources:
https://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=804&q=244900
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_import_vehicle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_market#Automobiles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_domestic_market
https://jalopnik.com/have-you-ever-boug ... 1761356291
http://lemonlawautofraud.com/disclosure ... t-vehicles

oh btw, all RORO cars have their mileage turned back on the ports in Japan by whatever companies the dealers here buy from. You really think a domestic car in Japan would have 20,000 km? or less than 100, 000 km? Those would cost close to new market prices. They then sign the invoice in Japan when they're loading the ships with the rolled back mileage. Maybe the local RORO dealers here choose to be ignorant of this.

Try these websites to get some basic info on the chassis/VIN number of your local vehicle if the regular websites (most VIN decoder website are for standard USA VIN coding) aren't accepted your 17-digit code or as in the case of JDM cars 11-digit chassis code.
https://uk.vin-info.com/
https://www.autodna.com/
https://www.japan-partner.com/check-man ... e-year.php

Interesting stuff. Makes sense but this talks mostly about car being made to different specifications based on different regulations (like emissions, air bags, door braces etc). But, what does this mean for actual quality? Which cars are more durable (which is what I think most trinis concerned about)? One of the articles said JDM cars focus more on tech than durability because the average age of cars there is like 5 years.

At the end of the day, where do you think is the best option if you want to buy a quality car (bang for the buck)? I'm guessing local stealerships out, unless there are certain brands/ companies with a good track record.

Also, I agree that most (if not all) RORO cars had mileage roll backs. What do you think about history verification services of imported cars like ALIS?

https://www.facebook.com/AutomotiveLogisticsTT

maj. tom · Postby **maj. tom** » February 26th, 2019, 1:45 pm

The quality should be the same. It's the same metal and molding machines and robots. Just different assembly lines.
ALIS ... well boy, you could ask on the forums about ALIS. No comment.

But the only actual way to verify the vehicle mileage would be to check the maintenance logs of each car right? Not the piece of paper the RORO dealer gets from the port in Japan, where they can write any number after they have rolled back the mileage themselves. So how to verify what is written? How many people fill out those logs? (an example of what these logs should look like are https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/documen ... ry_WMG.pdf
OR https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachme ... dule-e.pdf)
How many people do proper service on their vehicles? RORO vehicles are the ones that people drive till they fed up after 2 years and ready to sell it. In an open market like Japan, USA or Canada, you would see this is quite common. Many people replace their new cars after just 2 to 4 years. As far as I know, these things are only strict and really scrutinized in USA and where there are actual laws regarding the mileage rollback practice. Try getting a car maintenance report for a JDM car. Pay whatever website you want, but can it actually be verified by each service the dealer has done?

Slartibartfast · Postby **Slartibartfast** » February 26th, 2019, 1:55 pm

Thanks.

I actually imported a car with ALIS a few years back. 4 years later and I have no complaints but I have seem some bad reviews of them on tuner and facebook so even though my experience with them was good I can't comment either.

So what's the best route to go when I want to bring in a RORO car. I have a friend that got badly burnt by one of the bigger RORO companies so I know those big legit companies not always better. Is it just luck of the draw or are there precautions that someone can make beyond the usual contractual precautions?

maj. tom · Postby **maj. tom** » February 26th, 2019, 2:16 pm

You can get good JDM cars with low mileage. They just cost close to the actual price, and are models close to the current year.
https://www.japanesecartrade.com/ This website encompasses a large number of companies that sell cars. The cars are listed here first, and the 3rd party companies (buy it? or some kind of deal) from them and distribute it. I have done a fair amount of digging and comparing the Chassis numbers that appear here, and then the same chassis numbers sold on other 3rd party websites (eg Kobemotor.com). On the 3rd party websites after a car is sold, they remove the listing, or can still be found with the chassis number partially blocked by *****. Press F12 and read the source code, you would see the real chassis number still on the name of the jpg files. The original mileage appeared on a cache view of that first website.

And I'm telling you this with a very sore heart, I bought at car here that the dealer showed me 23,000 km on the paper. It was actually listed as more than 124,000 km after I did this research. What could I do? The dealer wasn't aware, or he didn't do the rollback. I've read that most RORO cars with high mileage do the rollback on the actual ports. Or else they won't be able to sell. Local RORO dealers all over the world know this, so they don't blink, but I'm sure they know about this practice. It's quite easy to do because they have the equipment right there to do it digitally when they're servicing the car. Apparently the mileage isn't encrypted and locked down on a chip somewhere as one would expect today eh.

You can buy a fully loaded RORO with low mileage within 2 years of manufacture. But expect it to cost close to the USA price of the same car new on a USA website. Not a bad deal actually, if you can handle the Japanese writing. Most JDM cars don't have an English translation of the Japanese owner's manual. But most JDM cars have a similar counterpart model in USA you can get from the USA website. In the end of that deal, you're still saving much more than the local official dealership, and you're getting a fully loaded model and very close to new. Dealerships have huge overheads so I guess that's the excuse for the local practices. It's easy to bring in your own car through someone who has the RORO license. You can choose your car on the website and they can bring it. A lot of RORO dealers go this way now.

One thing, when you buy a RORO car, read the manual and do a full service for the expected km mileage as stated in the manual. Those 4 year cars definitely need a CVT checkup level service and change transmission fluid as specified by the manufacturer. It's far from a barely used car.

agent007 · Postby **agent007** » February 26th, 2019, 3:08 pm

Most reliable auto brands according to people’s false perception:

Toyota/Lexus/Daihatsu/Hino
Honda/Acura
Tesla
Nissan/Infiniti
Mitsubishi
Mazda
Genesis/Hyundai/Kia
Subaru
Isuzu
Cadillac/Buick/Chevrolet
Ford/Lincoln
Mercedes Benz/Smart
Rolls Royce/BMW/Mini
Land Rover/Jaguar
Volvo
Ferrari/Maserati/Alfa Romeo
Lotus
Aston Martin
Bugatti/Lamborghini/Bentley/Porsche/Audi/Volkswagen/Skoda/Seat
Opel/Vauxhall/Holden
Fiat/Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep
Renault/Dacia/Samsung
Peugeot/Citroen
Ssang Yong
Geely/GWM/Foton/BAIC/Brillance etc.
Tata
Saturn/Geo
Mercury
Saab
Eagle/Plymouth/Hillman/AMC
Proton
TVR/Mosler/Vector/Saleen
De Lorean
MG
Rover
Daewoo
Lada

Slartibartfast · Postby **Slartibartfast** » February 26th, 2019, 4:14 pm

maj. tom wrote:You can get good JDM cars with low mileage. They just cost close to the actual price, and are models close to the current year.
https://www.japanesecartrade.com/ This website encompasses a large number of companies that sell cars. The cars are listed here first, and the 3rd party companies (buy it? or some kind of deal) from them and distribute it. I have done a fair amount of digging and comparing the Chassis numbers that appear here, and then the same chassis numbers sold on other 3rd party websites (eg Kobemotor.com). On the 3rd party websites after a car is sold, they remove the listing, or can still be found with the chassis number partially blocked by *****. Press F12 and read the source code, you would see the real chassis number still on the name of the jpg files. The original mileage appeared on a cache view of that first website.

And I'm telling you this with a very sore heart, I bought at car here that the dealer showed me 23,000 km on the paper. It was actually listed as more than 124,000 km after I did this research. What could I do? The dealer wasn't aware, or he didn't do the rollback. I've read that most RORO cars with high mileage do the rollback on the actual ports. Or else they won't be able to sell. Local RORO dealers all over the world know this, so they don't blink, but I'm sure they know about this practice. It's quite easy to do because they have the equipment right there to do it digitally when they're servicing the car. Apparently the mileage isn't encrypted and locked down on a chip somewhere as one would expect today eh.

You can buy a fully loaded RORO with low mileage within 2 years of manufacture. But expect it to cost close to the USA price of the same car new on a USA website. Not a bad deal actually, if you can handle the Japanese writing. Most JDM cars don't have an English translation of the Japanese owner's manual. But most JDM cars have a similar counterpart model in USA you can get from the USA website. In the end of that deal, you're still saving much more than the local official dealership, and you're getting a fully loaded model and very close to new. Dealerships have huge overheads so I guess that's the excuse for the local practices. It's easy to bring in your own car through someone who has the RORO license. You can choose your car on the website and they can bring it. A lot of RORO dealers go this way now.

One thing, when you buy a RORO car, read the manual and do a full service for the expected km mileage as stated in the manual. Those 4 year cars definitely need a CVT checkup level service and change transmission fluid as specified by the manufacturer. It's far from a barely used car.

Thanks for the info man. Didn't know about that website. When I bought my car I went and "verified" the mileage as it came off on the port so I'm guessing the rollback is done before shipping. I guess at the end of the day if it's too good to be true...

rebound · Postby **rebound** » February 26th, 2019, 5:09 pm

agent007 wrote:Most reliable auto brands according to people’s false perception:

Toyota/Lexus/Daihatsu/Hino
Honda/Acura
Tesla
Nissan/Infiniti
Mitsubishi
Mazda
Genesis/Hyundai/Kia
Subaru
Isuzu
Cadillac/Buick/Chevrolet
Ford/Lincoln
Mercedes Benz/Smart
Rolls Royce/BMW/Mini
Land Rover/Jaguar
Volvo
Ferrari/Maserati/Alfa Romeo
Lotus
Aston Martin
Bugatti/Lamborghini/Bentley/Porsche/Audi/Volkswagen/Skoda/Seat
Opel/Vauxhall/Holden
Fiat/Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep
Renault/Dacia/Samsung
Peugeot/Citroen
Ssang Yong
Geely/GWM/Foton/BAIC/Brillance etc.
Tata
Saturn/Geo
Mercury
Saab
Eagle/Plymouth/Hillman/AMC
Proton
TVR/Mosler/Vector/Saleen
De Lorean
MG
Rover
Daewoo
Lada

Looks like Toyota on top either way..

nick639v2 · Postby **nick639v2** » February 26th, 2019, 6:08 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:Thanks.

I actually imported a car with ALIS a few years back. 4 years later and I have no complaints but I have seem some bad reviews of them on tuner and facebook so even though my experience with them was good I can't comment either.

So what's the best route to go when I want to bring in a RORO car. I have a friend that got badly burnt by one of the bigger RORO companies so I know those big legit companies not always better. Is it just luck of the draw or are there precautions that someone can make beyond the usual contractual precautions?

I can't say much but 5 vehicles purchased over there span of 6 years by family and friends from HSM marketing(I think is the name) in Chase Village, they service what they sell right in the back of their showroom and service is dam spot on.. Would highly recommend them.

EFFECTIC DESIGNS · Postby **EFFECTIC DESIGNS** » February 26th, 2019, 7:07 pm

ProtonPowder wrote:Misubishi... nowhere on the list? lmao

Well who knows why but what we know is all them lancer have horrible resale value down here, nobody does want those cars. They always breaking down and parts expensive no ass and it hard to get. I mean a lot of people who buy Mitsubishi do it because their parents or whatever had a Mitsubishi, not because its reliable. If people bought vehicles based on reliability rating and maintenance cost, the only 2 companies in business might be Toyota and Nissan alone.

The only thing Mitsubishi does really make good and reliable is them Fuso Trucks. In terms of power and reliability they work a lot better than DAF trucks but the Mitsubishi Canter is a joke

https://www.refrigeratedtransporter.com ... n-rankings

^ HINO aka Toyota often makes the best Trucks on the planet. Mitsubishi doesn't even compare to Hino where I work we have a lot of Trucks and over the years the winners have always been MAN and HINO according to my boss.

rebound · Postby **rebound** » February 26th, 2019, 9:11 pm

ProtonPowder wrote:Misubishi... nowhere on the list? lmao

This must be a US survey, Mitsubishi has a non existent presence there...but very popular in Asian countries.

whiteliver · Postby **whiteliver** » February 26th, 2019, 10:55 pm

if you see a honda at the side of the road with its bonnet up ....don't stop to assist ..its a trap.

l33t2 · Postby **l33t2** » February 26th, 2019, 11:29 pm

Just a personal anecdote. I rented a Corolla in the US, a 2.0L mid spec 2017 Corolla. I know the US models are very different...... but WOW the difference in quality, drive, feel, speed and interior was drastic. It felt like a Camry.

I obviously could not gauge reliability from having this car for 4 days, but the difference in quality was drastic.

adnj · Postby **adnj** » February 27th, 2019, 12:11 am

l33t2 wrote:Just a personal anecdote. I rented a Corolla in the US, a 2.0L mid spec 2017 Corolla. I know the US models are very different...... but WOW the difference in quality, drive, feel, speed and interior was drastic. It felt like a Camry.

I obviously could not gauge reliability from having this car for 4 days, but the difference in quality was drastic.

The Toyota plants in Mississippi where most of the US Corollas are built has some of the highest quality ratings of any auto manufacturing plant worldwide.

rebound · Postby **rebound** » February 27th, 2019, 5:40 am

whiteliver wrote:if you see a honda at the side of the road with its bonnet up ....don't stop to assist ..its a trap.

Thats a Toyota saying bud..

Don Mohammed · Postby **Don Mohammed** » March 1st, 2019, 4:07 pm

maj. tom wrote:Yes you are. And this rabbit hole goes way, way deeper that I am aware. Let me share what I do know:

USA/CAN/EU have laws to ensure the quality of the vehicles sold there are higher than their counterparts aimed at 3rd world markets. And USA law only allows all cars are manufactured and assembled within USA. Airbags is an easy way to see this. Base models in those countries must have 8 airbags, base models here have 2.

So try searching for a VIN number from a vehicle bought from Toyota Trinidad on the Toyota website. Error. Even though it's 17 digits, it's not in the same bracket as the USA/CAN/EU standards. One thing I am sure about is that the 2014 RAV4s sold here are made for the Malaysian/Australian market. (This is how is started discovering the world of grey market imports).

Yes guys, all these companies have plants all over the world, from Egypt to France, to Turkey, to UK, to Indonesia. You all really thought they manufacture millions of cars a year in 1 place in Japan, not to mention the millions of engines they make for other companies like Ford and GM? They are all aligned for their specific markets. Fully loaded JDM cars are nice, but most RORO cars that are exported are "Base models" with manufacturer specific options. Depending on the market. Those cars that the local dealers are selling here are "0 mileage" cars. They have features based on the market. You can order any specifics you want from Toyota in Japan for your vehicles that you're going to sell here. It's a franchise, like KFC. Why they do this? It's cheaper, that's all. Easy to skirt around certain laws that don't exist in 3rd world markets and save a lot of money in manufacturing and assembly. These cars should cost us less though right? lol.

They're not even hurting their reputation. Because what choice do you have? You really think you're getting the same USA/Canada/EU quality vehicles from our local authorized stealerships at even higher prices that they cost in USA fully loaded? They're called grey-market vehicles.

Sources:
https://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=804&q=244900
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_import_vehicle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_market#Automobiles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_domestic_market
https://jalopnik.com/have-you-ever-boug ... 1761356291
http://lemonlawautofraud.com/disclosure ... t-vehicles
http://japancarhistorycheck.com/whats-m ... -code-vin/

oh btw, all RORO cars have their mileage turned back on the ports in Japan by whatever companies the dealers here buy from. You really think a domestic car in Japan would have 20,000 km? or less than 100, 000 km? Those would cost close to new market prices. They then sign the invoice in Japan when they're loading the ships with the rolled back mileage. Maybe the local RORO dealers here choose to be ignorant of this.

Try these websites to get some basic info on the chassis/VIN number of your local vehicle if the regular websites (most VIN decoder website are for standard USA VIN coding) aren't accepting your 17-digit code or as in the case of JDM cars 11-digit chassis code.
https://uk.vin-info.com/
https://www.autodna.com/
https://www.japan-partner.com/check-man ... e-year.php
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/q?vin= ( this one shows the intended market for Toyota)

Thank you

Don Mohammed · Postby **Don Mohammed** » March 1st, 2019, 4:09 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
Rory Phoulorie wrote:
Don Mohammed wrote:Be minded that Trinidad don’t get top quality vehicles. Example a local Pathfinder in Trinidad is of lower quality of one assembled in the US. People don’t judge the brands based on the vehicles in Trinidad. One Toyota Trinidad best vehicle is the Prado; Trinidad would never see top Toyota vehicles such as the Tundra and Surf assembled locally

And you know this how exactly? Massy Motors buys second and third grade vehicles and sells them in Trinidad at premium prices?

This would also assume that Toyota invested in building separate manufacturing facilities to be able to assemble cars that at then end of the day may hurt their reputation/ brand and/or will only be able to be sold with a lower profit per unit and in a significantly smaller market.

Maybe I'm missing something....

You need to travel bro. Drive the same vehicle that are in Trinidad in the US. Eg Rav4

EFFECTIC DESIGNS · Postby **EFFECTIC DESIGNS** » March 1st, 2019, 5:35 pm

In 10 years I have only seen ONE Hilux shut down in Trinidad, that is quite impressive.

kamakazi · Postby **kamakazi** » March 1st, 2019, 11:47 pm

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:In 10 years I have only seen ONE Hilux shut down in Trinidad, that is quite impressive.

Shut down you say... Sure he/she want waiting for somebody...

Or stopped to prevent damage to pump and injectors from water in fuel

EFFECTIC DESIGNS · Postby **EFFECTIC DESIGNS** » March 2nd, 2019, 7:39 pm

Isuzu D MAX and Frontier / Navara NP 300 looks nearly identical

Are these all the same vehicles? using same parts? it wouldn't be too far fetched since Mazda has an actual AD Wagon with a Mazda logo but it is a Nissan AD in reality.

But am very interested in the similarities between the D Max and Np 300 series I think these might be the exact same vehicles