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Tackling Crime at Its Source

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Slartibartfast
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Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby Slartibartfast » July 16th, 2019, 9:20 am

So crime continues to get worse in T&T. Both governments say they are doing all that they can and it is out of their control. Some people so desperate they open to the idea of living in a police state under constant state of emergency with the death penalty as a punishment for every crime without a trial. Gary Griffith (who I still think is doing a better job than any of his predecessors) seems to be having only a little impact.

So what I want to know is, if we are clearly all so "desperate" to tackle crime, and so "willing" to put up with any inconvenience, why are there no plans to tackle crime at the source.

Poverty doesn't cause crime, inequality does. Excacerbated when it seems impossible to rectify and impossible won (like through drugs and corruption). Look up the Gini coefficient as a predictor for crime. The World Bank, The Guardian, The Economist and the NYU all seem to agree.

The Guardian wrote:The connection is so strong that, according to the World Bank, a simple measure of inequality predicts about half of the variance in murder rates between American states and between countries around the world.

Inequality predicts homicide rates “better than any other variable”, says Martin Daly, professor emeritus of psychology and neuroscience at McMaster University in Ontario...

...If they can’t, while others visibly bask in luxury that seems both impossible to attain and unfairly won, those far from the top often become desperate.


NYU wrote:It seems we need to focus more on lessening income inequality in countries around the world, targeting social justice and poverty in the fight against crime


Unless somebody says they tackling drugs and corruption, then they not serious about our crime situation. Extra points if they talk about social and worker welfare programs to keep people oit of poverty, but only if they tackle drugs and corruption first. Otherwise, it's just pandering.

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby shake d livin wake d dead » July 16th, 2019, 9:30 am

Tackling our crime problem starts with addressing our politics...then move on

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby Dizzy28 » July 16th, 2019, 9:33 am

The big crime lords too intertwined into the political fabric and overall power system of this country.
Only thing can change it is drastic upheaval and by that I do not a measly General Election where the players change but the game remains the same.

Sometimes when you think about it Abu had a point.

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby vaiostation » July 16th, 2019, 9:42 am

Why would anyone at the top want fix crime. Financiers of political parties hold lucrative government contracts to provide security. Politicians openly give government contracts to gangsters( community leaders). The borders remain open so illegal immigrants can enter, which in turn provide an endless source of cheap labour for the business community, as well as guns and drugs.

I don't know why people believe that anyone wants to stop crime. The criminals are the ones who own this place.
People need to stop pretending that those parliamentarians are unaware, when they are directly benefiting. All de talk Gary Griffith have, he will always fall in line.
Last edited by vaiostation on July 16th, 2019, 9:46 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby aaron17 » July 16th, 2019, 9:43 am

I wanna know what each small individual can do..subbed

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby MG Man » July 16th, 2019, 9:47 am

Slartibartfast wrote:Poverty doesn't cause crime, inequality does.


that's it right there....you really think the ones on the happier side of inequality want to see it change?
Those we allow to maintain power are happy to see us end up like venezuela or haiti...because at the end of the day, they remain unaffected, their wealth grows, and we continue to fight like crabs in a barrel

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby MG Man » July 16th, 2019, 9:49 am

aaron17 wrote:I wanna know what each small individual can do..subbed


until half a million small individuals are willing to riot and risk taking a bullet or imprisonment for the greater good, nothing will change
Are you willing to go to jail or worse, to secure a better tomorrow for others?
Yup, thought so
Back to :drinking: :drinking: :drinking:

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby aaron17 » July 16th, 2019, 10:01 am

Thoughts about decriminalizing marijuana for less crime?

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby aaron17 » July 16th, 2019, 10:01 am

MG Man wrote:
aaron17 wrote:I wanna know what each small individual can do..subbed


until half a million small individuals are willing to riot and risk taking a bullet or imprisonment for the greater good, nothing will change
Are you willing to go to jail or worse, to secure a better tomorrow for others?
Yup, thought so
Back to :drinking: :drinking: :drinking:
Yea fear for own life and family

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby Slartibartfast » July 16th, 2019, 10:07 am

It's clearly all politics. Criminals own everything but funny enough only the small criminals get held.

I had a phone stolen from me some years back. Total theft was $100. I've been working unpaid overtime for the past 4 years. Total theft $100,000 (at least). Which one you think I can go by the police for? I'm monthly paid so my exploitation is legal but practices like this promote inequality.

NYU wrote:That being said, other studies have revealed that the upper class commits far more crime than the lower class, which contradicts the assumption that crime is more predominant among the poor.


Whats the ratio of white collar criminals to blue collar criminals in golden grove?

I'm not sure how to reduce crime other than trying to protect yourself by showing everybody respect, treating everybody fairly and not flaunting your wealth if you have it.

But I know the first step to any solution is acknowledgement of the problem. Tackling drugs and corruption can be used as a "litmus test" to confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt if politicians full of sh!t or not. Talk is cheap. Unless some form of action is taken they can be considered full of sh!t

The thing is, all of us too busy to keep up with all the bobol going on. People need a robust indicator that can help them decide on if a politician worth their support or not. I'm saying this is a good indicator that can be used. You can forget everything else, not follow any current events and still be able to be reasonably informed about a politicians character through this alone.

So step one is let people know to look out for this. Step two will come when people get accustomed to keeping pressure on this wound.

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby MG Man » July 16th, 2019, 10:11 am

Slartibartfast wrote:The thing is, all of us too busy to keep up with all the bobol going on.


the harsh truth is 99% of trinis who complain about bobol and the state of the country will do the same if given the same opportunity
Share contracts to friends and family
Nepotisn
Unfair privilege
Taking of liberties
The list goes on and on

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby Slartibartfast » July 16th, 2019, 10:16 am

aaron17 wrote:Thoughts about decriminalizing marijuana for less crime?

Trying to get some people on my podcast now to talk about this.

My belief, weed shoukd have never been illegal

My questions and views about the legalisation of weed off the top of my head.
How are we going to treat with the criminals held in golden grove for weed related charges? They should be let out but they will absolutely need some form of rehabilitation (which ironically is what prison supposed to be for).

What's going to happen to weed related criminal records?

If weed is made legal it needs to be taxed and regulated.

Growers, providers and sellers need to be qualified and weed tested to keep the levels of active chemicals consistent or at least known to the customer.

Anything illegal under the influence of alcohol needs to remain illegal under the influence of weed.

No sale to minors.

Licenses should only be given to local nationals with only local citizenship to prevent international coorporations from coming in and stealing the revenue from this market.

Doctors should learn about the effects of weed. Not sure how much they already know but I want there to be better access to informatiom than wikipedia and the street corner pusherman.

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby Slartibartfast » July 16th, 2019, 10:20 am

MG Man wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:The thing is, all of us too busy to keep up with all the bobol going on.


the harsh truth is 99% of trinis who complain about bobol and the state of the country will do the same if given the same opportunity
Share contracts to friends and family
Nepotisn
Unfair privilege
Taking of liberties
The list goes on and on

Humans are opportunists. Trinis need to see that 90% of them not going to get that opportunity anyway so they have a better chance doing something about those involved. Yes this is hypocritical but if you really think about it, sometimes hypocrisy is the first step to change.

Would you take a 0.1% chance to get $1,000,000 or a 50% chance to get $100,000.

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby Ben_spanna » July 16th, 2019, 10:23 am

A huge part of our problem is not the inequality.. its the lack of proper parenting and a lack of Good fathering and a good role model for the youth, that in itself is a cultural problem..... our African males are in dire need of changing their ways... of simply sleeping with whoever they want without having to be responsible for their actions.

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby Dizzy28 » July 16th, 2019, 10:26 am

Decriminalizing weed will allow for the clearing of the court systems so they can prosecute other trivial crimes.

And if small men think they going and benefit when weed is legalized they in for a shock.

I attended Canex PoS a few months ago hosted by Douglas Gordon. Its a Cannabis investment conference held in a few Caribbean islands.
In attendance were Dominic Hadeed, Johhny Soong, Davy Boodosingh's son (Cocoa Republic) plus LOTS of other local persons of middle eastern descent.

Ended up chatting with a local white guy (as opposed to a local middle easterner) who splits his time between here and the US. He said he is interested in investing in Cannabis but he already knows what going to happen based on who was in attendance at that conference.

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby maj. tom » July 16th, 2019, 10:33 am

There is no solution until Constitutional Reform and a generation of politicians who are willing to do what is necessary to get the job done, i.e., not to be in bed with the known criminal leaders and big boys who really run the street game, all for votes and support and power.

The solutions are known and tested theory. We have documented history of NYC and the steps that Rudy Giuliani took to reduce crime and create the NYC that the world sees today, compared to the grime, crime and fear infested NYC of the 1970s. There are social scientists and criminologists who wrote the "Broken Windows theory" which Mayor Giuliani then applied quite successfully to massively reduce crime. He dealt with urban reconstruction and turned a $2.3B deficit into a $3B surplus within 2 terms.

You think all these things are not known and have already been discussed to exhaustion by academics and the like? You think Gary does not know these things? Politics in Trinidad is just too nasty. And it will take a huge social upheaval to change our culture to the better, where we would definitely put the future of the country ahead of the oppressive and racially divided money and power schemes that politicians currently provide.

There is no solution. We slowly have to work our way to the utopia that we want. Push and push and push and eventually the population will respond with a social upheaval. It's only such incidents of bloodshed that really unites a people toward a common goal. This is one of the obstacles that the "free independence" nations after WWII face because there was no uniting cause where we had to fight for freedom. It was just given to us because the politics of the world was changing. These nations are simply very young and have to go through their own birthing pains. This is where we are. A world of peace, no global uniting and dividing war, just fighting ourselves for an identity.

And remember, we are a laid back people with tropical weather and no cares in the world. For a reaction you will have to remove a vital resource from our lives in order to produce an organised effort against the institution. As it is, crime and robbery and murder doesn't really affect everyone, it's just a social discussion about what to do because it happened to people you know and the place getting really bad, etc. I don't know what kind of spark will create the reaction where politicians will take serious note and change. My guess is a natural disaster like Cat 5 hurricane or an IX earthquake event. Imagine no water, no fuel, no food, no health care. Many deaths. Extreme situations. Only then will the sell out Unions organize and decide that they want real change, and not just to sleep with the politicians to get their kickback.
Last edited by maj. tom on July 16th, 2019, 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby shake d livin wake d dead » July 16th, 2019, 10:34 am

Everyone here boiling down to our poor political misfits...Secondly laws have to change(more stern) and laws pertaining to corrupt practices among various nat sec agencies MUST change...Pg tests are good but make the punishments so harsh that it would register in their minds before even considering to join the protective forces...NO3...start fighting fire with fire, criminals not playing by the rules so do the necessary

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby Slartibartfast » July 16th, 2019, 10:58 am

maj. tom wrote:There is no solution until Constitutional Reform and a generation of politicians who are willing to do what is necessary to get the job done, i.e., not to be in bed with the known criminal leaders and big boys who really run the street game, all for votes and support and power.

The solutions are known and tested theory. We have documented history of NYC and the steps that Rudy Giuliani took to reduce crime and create the NYC that the world sees today, compared to the grime, crime and fear infested NYC of the 1970s. There are social scientists and criminologists who wrote the "Broken Windows theory" which Mayor Giuliani then applied quite successfully to massively reduce crime. He dealt with urban reconstruction and turned a $2.3B deficit into a $3B surplus within 2 terms.

You think all these things are not known and have already been discussed to exhaustion by academics and the like? You think Gary does not know these things? Politics in Trinidad is just too nasty. And it will take a huge social upheaval to change our culture to the better, where we would definitely put the future of the country ahead of the oppressive and racially divided money and power schemes that politicians currently provide.

There is no solution. We slowly have to work our way to the utopia that we want. Push and push and push and eventually the population will respond with a social upheaval. It's only such incidents of bloodshed that really unites a people toward a common goal. This is one of the obstacles that the "free independence" nations after WWII face because there was no uniting cause where we had to fight for freedom. It was just given to us because the politics of the world was changing. These nations are simply very young and have to go through their own birthing pains. This is where we are. A world of peace, no global uniting and dividing war, just fighting ourselves for an identity.

And remember, we are a laid back people with tropical weather and no cares in the world. For a reaction you will have to remove a vital resource from our lives in order to produce an organised effort against the institution. As it is, crime and robbery and murder doesn't really affect everyone, it's just a social discussion about what to do because it happened to people you know and the place getting really bad, etc. I don't know what kind of spark will create the reaction where politicians will take serious note and change. My guess is a natural disaster like Cat 5 hurricane or an IX earthquake event. Imagine no water, no fuel, no food, no health care. Many deaths. Extreme situations. Only then will the sell out Unions organize and decide that they want real change, and not just to sleep with the politicians to get their kickback.


These are some good points. I know about the broken window theory. Although this theory has a lot of criticism I think it still has some merit since the blanket approach seemed to inherently include a lot more effort in related areas that had some positive effects. But this is still just mostly treating the symptoms. I'm talking about treating the direct cause of 50% of our crime by tackling the direct cause of majority of remaining crime.

Why are we acting like tackling the vast minority will make any difference. Kill all criminals, bring back the death penalty, burn down beetham and laventille as others (not me) have suggested and it will temporarily fix a minority of the crime. People need to see that their aggression is misplaced. Murderers, gangsters, rapists and burglers are just the customer service reps for corruption. We need to start dealing with the managers cuz dealing with the criminals clearly not making a difference. Please, prove me wrong.

I'm sure all the politicians know that corruption is the main cause. Corruption is what allows crimes involving drugs, human traficking and prostitution to continue in a way that promotes inequality. Drugs and prostitution don't have to be a bad thing (eg. Amsterdam) but when supported by corruption it almost always is.

Corruption is like our big bang of crime. It's like in the beginning we were independent and corruption said "let there be crime". A joke, but you get the idea.

You want to make the greatest difference with the least effort, start with corruption. I'm saying it now with elections coming up, know that any politician not serious about this is by definition full of sh!t.

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby MG Man » July 16th, 2019, 11:02 am

tbh it's mainly racists (closet and otherwise) who see 'bunnin dong beetham and sea lots' as a solution

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby Ben_spanna » July 16th, 2019, 11:04 am

If you cant show that you can afford to support a child both financially AND morally then you should not be lawfully allowed to do so!

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby FordeG » July 16th, 2019, 11:12 am

Inequality does not mean sheit regarding our crime, it is simply being part of a coke trafficking route.

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby Rovin » July 16th, 2019, 11:21 am

we cud talk til we get old n dead & crime will still go on normal cause those who can do something about it dont want to because they & their affiliates are benefiting from it ....

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby The_Honourable » July 16th, 2019, 11:24 am

- Jail execute members of the 1% who encouraging the drug trade... once that happens everybody below the pyramid will begin to fall in line.

- You see the approx 2,500 gang members and their "community leaders"? wipe them out... clean.

- Enforcing current laws while updating existing laws. Whistle-blower and campaign finance legislation are good starts.

- Guard our borders, humble yourself if you need outside help.

- Reformulate the education system paying special attention to government schools.

- Improve the court system so cases can be heard quickly and persons can move on.

- Redo the prison system so persons would not come out of prison worse that before when they went in.

- Improve social services especially children who have been victims of abuse from both male and female.

- Death Penalty.

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby shake d livin wake d dead » July 16th, 2019, 11:35 am

Rovin wrote:we cud talk til we get old n dead & crime will still go on normal cause those who can do something about it dont want to because they & their affiliates are benefiting from it ....


Close d ched deh

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby mero » July 16th, 2019, 11:58 am

Basically. Ppl can't understand why the murder rate so high but in the same breath praying for violent death as the onlyof d little black boys who reside in hot spots.

Unless a category 5 hurricane flatten trinidad and thousands of ppl actually die from all political "safe seats" so nobody could say "it good" and we're forced to actually come together and break down the racial and social hatred we have for each other daz failure.

Or everyone actually takes respsonsibilty and snitch/whisteblow with the Information we ALL have on criminal activity. Sure almost 100% of ppl on here moreless the population know/of a weed pusher, coke dealer, bad boy thief, tusty man, man taking bribe, small shot and big shot squatters, "gt links" , racket runners, shaky business men, exploiters of labor. Everyone here knows something that can assist with curbing the crime.

Then again this 2nr where 100% of crime is done by PNM ppl and "Rowley chirren" and the faster we kill them out and vote in the other batch of thieves where the only difference is the thieves look like us, crime apparently will never done.

MG Man wrote:tbh it's mainly racists (closet and otherwise) who see 'bunnin dong beetham and sea lots' as a solution

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby adnj » July 16th, 2019, 12:34 pm

aaron17 wrote:Thoughts about decriminalizing marijuana for less crime?
Studies done in the US do not indicate a change in incidences of violent crime as a consequence legalization of marijuana. There is, however, an increase in police man hours available for investigation of crimes not related to marijuana possession.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-what-the-numbers-show-about-the-impact-of-legalizing-marijuana-2019-04-09

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby lalloboy101 » July 16th, 2019, 12:46 pm

Is humans that does commit crime, de same ones with a thinking brain, not some animal that don't know better. There is no way to stop crime altogether, problem with nowadays folks is they want easy way out of everything, the glamor ,glitz and to some extent the glorified deaths.

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby Slartibartfast » July 16th, 2019, 1:07 pm

Rovin wrote:we cud talk til we get old n dead & crime will still go on normal cause those who can do something about it dont want to because they & their affiliates are benefiting from it ....

Thank god other ppl exist.

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby Slartibartfast » July 16th, 2019, 1:11 pm

lalloboy101 wrote:Is humans that does commit crime, de same ones with a thinking brain, not some animal that don't know better. There is no way to stop crime altogether, problem with nowadays folks is they want easy way out of everything, the glamor ,glitz and to some extent the glorified deaths.

Read the sources and don't let what is perfect be the enemy of what is good.

Half of the crime is perpetuated by one factor that is not even being talked about. You ok with spinning you top in mud treating the sypmtoms with no effect like we have been doing since the turn of the century? Really? You want to what... treat the symptoms harder?

I included reputable sources for a reason. Check it out. I promise I'm nit talking out of my a$$ with this one (which I normally do so I forgive anyone for the confusion)

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Re: Tackling Crime at Its Source

Postby Slartibartfast » July 16th, 2019, 1:13 pm

adnj wrote:
aaron17 wrote:Thoughts about decriminalizing marijuana for less crime?
Studies done in the US do not indicate a change in incidences of violent crime as a consequence legalization of marijuana. There is, however, an increase in police man hours available for investigation of crimes not related to marijuana possession.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-what-the-numbers-show-about-the-impact-of-legalizing-marijuana-2019-04-09
somebody should revive the legalisation thread. I know some big moves going to be made before elections. Not yet sure if it going to be good or bad though.

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