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MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

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A172
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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby A172 » September 3rd, 2019, 7:01 pm

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:
eliteauto wrote:ED you always know what to buy....... but when you actually going to buy?


I have a PAY 101 corolla a while now. No issues whatsoever and it was made in 1992, gives less problems than most of these new model vehicles and maintenance is near non existent, the vehicle is built so simple that I do most of the mechanic work on it myself with the help of youtube, all my extra earnings from overtime I putting it towards building a house that I want to rent out. To me I found this pathway to be better than buying a new vehicle and forever paying the bank.

Next vehicle has to be a Diesel Hilux a TCA or something that I would like to have until I die. Not because of fuel economy but because of Diesel Reliability and superior torque which is inherent in Diesel

I am just pointing out something, one has to be well informed and smart about buying a vehicle, not run down something just to have the latest license plate. If money is the issue learn to cook food home, ban your belly and buy something cash so the bank doesn't own you.


Let us get a better perspective of this let us compare

$125K for this which will mash up the first pothole it hits or have to be dumped in 7 years with 0 resale value or will float away when rain falls in POS

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Or $76K NEGOTIABLE for this Hilux which is DIESEL and a purchase for life that you will eventually hand down to your children and grand children.

Yeah me thinks the Hilux is the way to go.

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u rell studying what other ppl spending their $ on while dem doh even know u exist

apparently the only person who $ is an issue for is u.

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » September 3rd, 2019, 7:06 pm

^ I don't think so, I took a lot of advice from Scotty Kilmer like many people do.

Are you then saying that Scotty is studying what other people spending their money on also?

But whatever floats your boat, I just think this car looks like a really terrible buy for $125k that is just my opinion.

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby A172 » September 3rd, 2019, 7:26 pm

k

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby MaxPower » September 3rd, 2019, 7:34 pm

Hot hops

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby 88sins » September 3rd, 2019, 7:51 pm

ED made some good points, but I'll expound a bit.
I tell ppl, when it comes to your income, expenditure and investments, treat your life like a business, and there's one thing about a business you must remember.
In any successful business with fixed assets, some of those assets depreciate over time till eventually they are worth absolutely nothing, and cars fall into this category. So when investing in an asset like a vehicle, be sure to at least estimate the average total of the cost of purchase including interest, approximate running and maintenance costs and its approximate selling value at a time in the future when you may be looking to sell. So, to break even you must have made or saved as much as that from that vehicle for it to be worth the purchase. Anything else and you operating at a loss.


With that lil Hyundai, no matter what you do you gonna be running at a loss from start to finish. If yuh cool wit dat, get one.

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby sMASH » September 3rd, 2019, 8:21 pm

if u compare running costs with that, with that of a normal vehicle, the fuel might be able to make a difference. it more suited for city running, or might be used for the student to go to uwi. it jst might make a bit of economic sense.
yes, still a loss, and the resale might simply have to write off, but still, might work out to be a better operational cost than the alternatives.

it woudl have been better for it to be fully electric though.

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby 88sins » September 4th, 2019, 11:06 am

sMASH wrote:if u compare running costs with that, with that of a normal vehicle, the fuel might be able to make a difference. it more suited for city running, or might be used for the student to go to uwi. it jst might make a bit of economic sense.
yes, still a loss, and the resale might simply have to write off, but still, might work out to be a better operational cost than the alternatives.

it woudl have been better for it to be fully electric though.


This would have made it a real contender, once the battery bank, motor & A/T are reliable. I might have even been able to overlook the ugly factor if it were fully electric with a functional solar panel to charge it while it parked

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby sMASH » September 4th, 2019, 11:11 am

^^ yup, they drop the ball with that one.

btw, while on this trend of thought, are there any fully electric vehicles in trinidad?

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby hydroep » September 4th, 2019, 11:20 am

sMASH wrote:^^ yup, they drop the ball with that one.

btw, while on this trend of thought, are there any fully electric vehicles in trinidad?


Saw some used Nissan Leafs for sale and Massy supposed to be carrying the fully electric Ioniq.

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby Rovin » September 4th, 2019, 11:30 am

basic aqua is what 65kish ? so um naw ....

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby Dizzy28 » September 4th, 2019, 2:15 pm

sMASH wrote:^^ yup, they drop the ball with that one.

btw, while on this trend of thought, are there any fully electric vehicles in trinidad?


Brand new there is the EV Ioniq which has been here since 2017 and two weeks ago Darrell Ramalal, Massy manager say in Q2 2020 they will be bringing the all electric Nissan Leaf.

Used and non dealership ppl bringing in other brands. I see a very ugly looking BMW electric vehicle in the El Dorado Road area all the time. Think its an i3.

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby ismithx » September 4th, 2019, 4:39 pm

sMASH wrote:^^ yup, they drop the ball with that one.

btw, while on this trend of thought, are there any fully electric vehicles in trinidad?


yeah, saw a tesla model X sometime

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby Dizzy28 » September 4th, 2019, 4:41 pm

ismithx wrote:
sMASH wrote:^^ yup, they drop the ball with that one.

btw, while on this trend of thought, are there any fully electric vehicles in trinidad?


yeah, saw a tesla model X sometime


Oh yea saw the Model X once in Hyatt's car park. Apart from seeing the one Smart and them were trying to sell

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby ProtonPowder » September 4th, 2019, 5:18 pm

Even though an all electric vehicle range easily covers the average trini daily work commute, it doesnt sit most comfortably with people to only have a maximum 120km range in your car.

Is a very common sentiment.

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby ismithx » September 4th, 2019, 6:32 pm

ProtonPowder wrote:Even though an all electric vehicle range easily covers the average trini daily work commute, it doesnt sit most comfortably with people to only have a maximum 120km range in your car.

Is a very common sentiment.


especially when we have no fast charging stations for those

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby kamakazi » September 4th, 2019, 9:30 pm

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:
A172 wrote:financing is what sells cars

plenty people would not qualify for 100% financing for 5 years on roro but they will qualify for it on a new car for 7/8 years so them aint studying wah kinda car it is once they gt

kinda like the posters here crying down this car but bank still owning their pos cerato/corolla/jetta/crossover


Eh...

I rather save that money ban my belly and buy a TCZ Hilux for $90K than this crap for 125K

The Hilux is LIFETIME, this crap is buy and dump after 7 years.

Hilux is Diesel Engine which means insane reliability, no need coil pack/distributor, no spark plugs no computer crap to go bad.
The Hilux is 4x4 so it going through that nasty dutty water when POS flood out.

10 year old Hilux easily outlasting that brand new crap for $125K.

Have you seen the tiny shitty wheels on this 125k car? that mashing up the first pothole it hit and Trinidad has worse roads than Africa.



Not a bad looking little car (the new model...not what is posted in the thread )

So Hilux isn't lifetime and diesel engine doesn't mean insane reliability; you are comparing Gas to Diesel which is a bit tricky if you don't take everything into account.

Diesel engines cost more than gasoline vehicles because the engines have to be built stronger to handle the higher pressures.
Gas engines do seem to have more points of failure that you highlighted (minus the computer because they are fitted in both) over diesel engines. However, diesel engines do have their own concerns. They are less tolerant of poor quality fuel (a drop of water can ruin injectors and require a full replacement) and they require more attention than gas engines. The cost of replacing parts is also more expensive, but the cost is getting closer as technology improves and gas engines adopt diesel-like components and traits.

In the end, you have to pick what you can live with but don't just say things like diesel more reliable. Coil pack/s, distributor components spark plugs and wires are all wear items and they need to be replaced. Basing reliability on these items is being ignorant to this fact.

Would I buy one?
That is tough. I like to know the history of a vehicle and when you buy it new you have less of an unknown to deal with in regards to the mileage that has been covered. A new vehicle model is also tougher as you have no idea of the shortcomings in the new product. On the face of it my answer would be NO; 3-5 years on the market to observe its strengths and weaknesses can possibly change my mind.

Is the power good enough?
Well the Maracas beach drive isn't really that tough when you think about it and as with everything engine related, we don't have any idea of gear ratios. Max engine power figures without an understanding of the distribution of power and gearing are kinda useless. Had an old skoda felicia station wagon 1.3L carb manual (less than 54hp at 5000rpm / 94 Nm (69 lb-ft) at 3,250rpm; I say less than because it was carburetted and the carb produced less than the Fuel injected model whose numbers i have listed). Journey to Maracas wasn't ever a problem and this Hyundai has less weight to pull around, so i don't really see a problem unless you planning to overtake people on the hills going to and exiting Maracas beach. Maracas valley...maybe a bit of a struggle in some of the gated communities.
100kph: I wouldn't say easy but it is achievable. :)

I personally like the Mazda 2.

do they still sell the Nissan March?
Last edited by kamakazi on September 4th, 2019, 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby aaron17 » September 4th, 2019, 9:42 pm

Electric Porsche taycan released

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby K_J_R » September 5th, 2019, 6:43 am

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:
A172 wrote:financing is what sells cars

plenty people would not qualify for 100% financing for 5 years on roro but they will qualify for it on a new car for 7/8 years so them aint studying wah kinda car it is once they gt

kinda like the posters here crying down this car but bank still owning their pos cerato/corolla/jetta/crossover


Eh...

I rather save that money ban my belly and buy a TCZ Hilux for $90K than this crap for 125K

The Hilux is LIFETIME, this crap is buy and dump after 7 years.

Hilux is Diesel Engine which means insane reliability, no need coil pack/distributor, no spark plugs no computer crap to go bad.
The Hilux is 4x4 so it going through that nasty dutty water when POS flood out.

10 year old Hilux easily outlasting that brand new crap for $125K.

Have you seen the tiny shitty wheels on this 125k car? that mashing up the first pothole it hit and Trinidad has worse roads than Africa.



diesel engines are more reliable than gasoline?

and I thought a tcz hilux used an ecu aka computer crap?

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » September 5th, 2019, 6:49 am

You can have a very simple fuel injected car and still be worry free of all the complex computerized vehicles out there.

A Hilux Diesel even with an ECU is extremely simple in design compared to a Mercedes Benz or BMW Diesel.

This was the point Scotty Kilmer was making. Obviously it isn't completely mechanical as say a carburetor engine but general rule of thumb you try to get it as simple as possible. This means easier to fix, less expensive to fix and most mechanics will be able to fix it.

Diesel reliability is vastly superior to Gas engines out there for the simple fact that it operates on compression, this is a well known fact especially if it is designed by Toyota

As scotty kilmer always says "The whole point of a Diesel Engine is its simplicity in igniting Diesel Fuel via Compression, if you make the operation of this engine complex with too much electronics then you are doing it wrong" insert picture of goose laughing

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby kamakazi » September 5th, 2019, 12:05 pm

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:You can have a very simple fuel injected car and still be worry free of all the complex computerized vehicles out there.

A Hilux Diesel even with an ECU is extremely simple in design compared to a Mercedes Benz or BMW Diesel.

This was the point Scotty Kilmer was making. Obviously it isn't completely mechanical as say a carburetor engine but general rule of thumb you try to get it as simple as possible. This means easier to fix, less expensive to fix and most mechanics will be able to fix it.

Diesel reliability is vastly superior to Gas engines out there for the simple fact that it operates on compression, this is a well known fact especially if it is designed by Toyota

As scotty kilmer always says "The whole point of a Diesel Engine is its simplicity in igniting Diesel Fuel via Compression, if you make the operation of this engine complex with too much electronics then you are doing it wrong" insert picture of goose laughing


I am not disagreeing with you about a simple fuel injected car. I understand all what you have said about simple as possible, easier to fix etc.

My points are:
Diesels have not been "simple" for quite a while (approx 20yrs now since the introduction of Common rail and emissions control devices)
With your current thinking, there will be no options left for you if you ever plan to move on from your corolla.
All designs, even the simplest, have weak points but once they are identified they are easier to live/work with.

Are yes, Scotty Kilmer, Good advice SOMETIMES. It isn't always correct or helpful though.

Reliability is defined differently for so many people so your version could be different from mine which might be slightly different for the next person.

You said diesel reliability is vastly superior because it operates on compression [ignition]. Then the quote from Scotty"The whole point of a Diesel Engine is its simplicity in igniting Diesel Fuel via Compression, if you make the operation of this engine complex with too much electronics then you are doing it wrong":
Yes compression ignition is simpler but that is to ignore certain other traits of a diesel engine. Diesel engines make a lot of noise and pollute so much more in these simple designs (see rolling coal). This pollution negatively affects everyone's health. Diesel engine runaway also happens. So they introduced electronics, common rail injection and emissions controls so that you wouldn't suffer and die prematurely from respiratory issues (a trade off I can live with).
These newer systems (some found in the hilux you pictured) are very susceptible to dirt and water. Reliability while a function of design still depends on the user. More so in the scenario of modern diesel engines, meaning if it is neglected it will actually fail well in advance of a gas engine.

As said above modern gas engines can deal with more neglect than a modern diesel. They do however have more points of potential failure (plugs, coils, wires). Thing is, diesel and gas engine designers have been looking to each other for developments and ways to solve their flaws; Diesel engines have adopted common rail systems, Gas engines have adopted direct injection.

My view on reliability is simpler design simple to work with. However I will gladly forego some level of reliability if it means I don't have to suffer any health problems. Spend the least amount of money on something to keep it running even if I have to deal with some inconvenience. (like having to drain the water out of the fuel filter in my diesel every oil change, or as required; rougher ride; etc.)

edit:
we started this discussion between the atos and other "cheap" small cars vs a used diesel like a hilux. we have now introduced BMW and Mercedes.
All engines are getting complicated as they improve. I mentioned gas engines fairing better with neglect, well even amongst the germans this is true. When you break something in a diesel it is generally more expensive than its gasoline counterpart. I've never had one per se but i believe in most cases these engines got a worse reliability rep from neglect. (comparing germans to germans here)

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby vaiostation » September 5th, 2019, 1:24 pm

Only way I see this thing selling is if government probably has plans on placing taxes on hybrids, as well as increasing taxes on vehicles with 1.4L and up, and also increasing fuel prices.

Most likely Massy knows what's to come in the near future, so they putting things in place...

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby viedcht » September 5th, 2019, 1:26 pm

ED very ambitious. Could see him achieving One Percent status within 10 years. Good luck to you sir

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby K_J_R » September 6th, 2019, 9:02 am

EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:You can have a very simple fuel injected car and still be worry free of all the complex computerized vehicles out there.

A Hilux Diesel even with an ECU is extremely simple in design compared to a Mercedes Benz or BMW Diesel.

This was the point Scotty Kilmer was making. Obviously it isn't completely mechanical as say a carburetor engine but general rule of thumb you try to get it as simple as possible. This means easier to fix, less expensive to fix and most mechanics will be able to fix it.

Diesel reliability is vastly superior to Gas engines out there for the simple fact that it operates on compression, this is a well known fact especially if it is designed by Toyota

As scotty kilmer always says "The whole point of a Diesel Engine is its simplicity in igniting Diesel Fuel via Compression, if you make the operation of this engine complex with too much electronics then you are doing it wrong" insert picture of goose laughing



what makes mercedes and bmw diesels so complex? i honestly don't know.

but toyota diesles started even from before tcx started obd2 systems with electronic fuel injection. i think they also used vfd turbos which are controlled by the ecu - not so?

not seeing how that more simple than mercedes or bmw diesels?

this sound just like when massy used to try to sell carburetted b13s, and they were coming efi foreign used same time. salesmen saying how dem fuel injection engine too complex and it eh good, cah handle the gas and thing. lol.

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby kamakazi » September 6th, 2019, 10:41 am

I am not sure if all 3.0 Hilux (Vigo design) came with vnt/vgt turbos (never heard vfd before). Depending on where purchased, some came with EGR and maybe even a dpf

The 2.5 from the firm came with a standard turbo, no EGR, no dpf not even a car converter. Only 2012 models from importers had vgt.

When this was just released BMW were at least 2 years old into their vgt usage.

Denso, which Toyota uses has only recently started using piezoelectric diesel injectors in the new diesel engines (around 2015).

Bosch who introduced the tech, have had their injectors installed on Mercedes and BMW since before 2005.

I can use a dipstick
The Germans saw it fit to install a sensor

I can listen for wear indicators on my brake pads. The Germans put a wear sensor

I can pull my hand brakes. The Germans installed two switches.(one for hand brake one for hill hold assist.)

I can change my own bake pads. The Germans require a computer be connected

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby K_J_R » September 6th, 2019, 11:10 am

yes. vgt is what it's called.

that makes sense. learnd something there.

but i still think that my point about running away from technolgy is valid. saying that diesels are more reliable than gas engines is not correct i think. other than that i think ED is just parroting what this scotty kilmer fellow is saying. watched his videos and he comes across as a "new is bad old is better" kinda fella.

and his videos are titled as clickbait. in my view.
Last edited by K_J_R on September 6th, 2019, 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby kamakazi » September 6th, 2019, 11:34 am

K_J_R wrote:yes. vgt is what it's called.

that makes sense. learnd something there.

but i still think that my point about running away from technolgy is valid. saying that diesels are miles more reliable than gas engines is not correct i think. other than that i think ED is just parroting what this scotty kilmer fellow is saying. watched his videos and he comes across as a "new is bad old is better" kinda fella.

and his videos are titled as clickbait. in my view.


They are... It is there only to make money. He tried to start "beef" with Chrisfix because at the time Chris subscriber count was seriously growing.

Now I don't run away from technology... But I like it too mature a little first; See if I can live with the advantages and the drawbacks. See if it makes sense in our conditions. Other times I realise some tech is just for laziness.

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby K_J_R » September 6th, 2019, 12:59 pm

in one video he says once you start putting egr turbo and direct fuel injection and cvts that that makes cars unreliable. my PBP primera has been reliable and never gave any issues because my mechanic used the right transmission oil. that car had both diret inj and cvt.
i think that modern day cars may have even better cvt and direct inj systems.

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby EFFECTIC DESIGNS » September 6th, 2019, 5:01 pm

Scotty to the rescue again and in perfect timing here is his latest video and its all about this thread LOL is like he visits Trinituner frequently and saw this thread.

For those who don't have time to watch the video the basic summary of it is

*Don't buy new cars that is dead money it depreciates in no time and you like an arse paying high insurance for no reason.
*When buying a used car buy one that is a keeper for life
*When buying a keeper for life buy Toyota.

Ah feel proud to see a millionaire like him driving a car with the same Engine as my 1992 Corolla
Scotty is ah brilliant fellow, he keeps the simplest most basic and reliable fuel injected engine car
which in his case is a 1993 Toyota Celica.



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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby hydroep » September 6th, 2019, 6:40 pm

^Yup, a good used car especially if you can do ah li'l maintenance for yourself — is the way to go.

He also did a dedicated video on the "beater car" — one of those things you drive all over the place and eh care if ah bird sh!t on it or mango fall and dent-up the bonnet.

Not to say that you purposely mistreat the thing eh — still keep up with your regular maintenance, but there's no major worry or fretting from the expected knocks it'll take as a daily driver...:cool:

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Re: MASSY to unveil $125,000 car

Postby Spitfir3 » September 6th, 2019, 7:50 pm

scotty advice good for first time car owners that don't know anything about cars/maintenance and now in the learning process
i learn how to do everything from brakes pads to minor electrical all the way to changing tranmission with my lil old ck

if you well in the game and the finances good you doh hadda take him on

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