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hydroep wrote:The results of the LGE showed that nothing's for certain but the PNM probably has the edge for the GE because of the demographic makeup of the constituencies. Thing is: would their winning again be such a bad thing?
A storm is coming.
The PNM has a documented history of messing things up and then leaving other people with the unpopular job of cleaning up their mess. The NAR bore the brunt of the public's ire back in the late 80s when they were forced to make the structural adjustments necessary to stabilise the economy and that brought out the worst elements of our society with the Jamaat's attempted coup in 1990.
Sure, on paper things aren't as bad now as they were in the 80s BUT there seems to be a lot more discontent on the ground because the disenfranchised middle and lower classes are probably much larger now.
IMO the PNM has never had to evolve because they've never had to face the consequences of their actions. That needs to change so let them go back and face the music.
At the very least all the people that put them there will continue to remain quiet while Growlers & Co. f#cks the country into oblivion. As they say: "silence is golden"...
Rovin wrote:d marginals is what always win d elections in this country so unc needs to focus almost solely on this , start buttering up d ppl there early & heavily
watson duke also needs to do this for dem 2 tobago seats
all d other areas is die hard pnm\unc as was proven jes last wk ....
l33t2 wrote:Rovin wrote:d marginals is what always win d elections in this country so unc needs to focus almost solely on this , start buttering up d ppl there early & heavily
watson duke also needs to do this for dem 2 tobago seats
all d other areas is die hard pnm\unc as was proven jes last wk ....
Moruga Tableland, Sangre Grande, La Horquetta Talparo and St Joseph going back UNC.
That's 21 seats, not even counting tunapuna or Sando West (the hate for Faris is ripe there).
If PNM manage to turn this around (unlikely) they'll win 21-20. Best case for UNC is 23-18
l33t2 wrote:Rovin wrote:d marginals is what always win d elections in this country so unc needs to focus almost solely on this , start buttering up d ppl there early & heavily
watson duke also needs to do this for dem 2 tobago seats
all d other areas is die hard pnm\unc as was proven jes last wk ....
Moruga Tableland, Sangre Grande, La Horquetta Talparo and St Joseph going back UNC.
That's 21 seats, not even counting tunapuna or Sando West (the hate for Faris is ripe there).
If PNM manage to turn this around (unlikely) they'll win 21-20. Best case for UNC is 23-18
Ben_spanna wrote:Yellow or RED, both do the same thing, both promising things and when they get into power they couldnt care less for their general voters...
We need new blood in the political race, we need a neutral party that actually cares about the future of the country and wont go blaming the previous parties for the current state of the country.
Question is can you honestly see a Non Indian or Non-Afro Trinidadian winning the election with no proven history ?
Do you think people will ever get smart and not vote for their previous parties due to them being treated like crap and left by the way side?
l33t2 wrote:Vote with logic, we don't have this miracle 3rd party. Almost no country does, and if they exist they'll never win. What we need to do is keeping voting for the lesser of two evils until, they become a tolerable evil over time.
- Here you imply that those "rich enough" are the ones that have the real power. Let's call them the "oligarchs".l33t2 wrote: Don't forget though, both parties bend over backwards to those rich enough and those playing both sides.
Slartibartfast wrote:l33t2 wrote:Vote with logic, we don't have this miracle 3rd party. Almost no country does, and if they exist they'll never win. What we need to do is keeping voting for the lesser of two evils until, they become a tolerable evil over time.
Don't do this. This rewards non-performance. This is the reason why we are in this position. PNM was voted in because they were thought to be the "lesser of 2 evils" in 2015 and UNC was voted in for the same reason in 2010.
You touched on the truth and some of your thinking is on the right track though. Let me break it down into point form and let me know if you think it makes sense.- Here you imply that those "rich enough" are the ones that have the real power. Let's call them the "oligarchs".l33t2 wrote: Don't forget though, both parties bend over backwards to those rich enough and those playing both sides.
- To them it doesn't matter whether PNM or UNC is in power, because they get played the same way.
- From the point of view of the oligarchs, the last thing they want is a third party coming into power and ignoring the rules of engagement
Now because your statement implies that they see UNC/PNM as one entity, let's look at their behaviour and see if what you say makes any sense.
- PNM has been in power for 4 years so far. They have constantly alleged rampant corruption under the UNC. They have also have strong supporters that they consider close to their heart. Who (between the UNC and the PNM supporters) have suffered more in that last 4 years? How many investigations into UNC projects have been commenced and how many politicians saw the inside of a jail?
- UNC was in power for 5 years before that. There were several reports done into corruption in the PNM (Uff report, Bernard Report). They were handed several smoking guns for their opposition on a silver platter. What did they do with it? How many reports progressed into investigations? How many politicians saw the inside of a jail? Let's not forget about Section 34.
in 2010 we voted out PNM. In 2015 we voted out UNC. Now, by voting the lesser of 2 evils, you want to vote out PNM again? But we tried that 10 years ago and it didn't work. The winning party normally gets about 35% of the voting population's votes. There is typically about 30% of the voting population's votes that goes neither to UNC or PNM.
Instead of voting for the lesser of two evils we need to try to get any many people out there to vote next year as possible. Vote for third parties, spoil your ballot. Do anything else but don't abstain and don't vote for the"lesser of two evils".
The problem is that we don't have a viable third party to battle against UNM/PNC (a.k.a. the orange party). Voting for the lesser of two evils is just a way to stick our heads in the sand and hope they find it in their hearts to stop f^&*ing us over in the next 5 years. If they don't what do we plan to do then? Vote back in PNM? How else will a third party ever become viable if we never vote for it.
TL:DR Encourage people to come out and vote for third parties next year. It will give these other parties some viability and increase our political options in the 2025 elections. It's time that we as a people start thinking long term strategy as well, because our politicians are not going to do it for us.
You do know some citizens regard themselves as Trinidadians and Tobagonians right?Redress10 wrote:I also don't agree that a non indo or afro should be our PM. Our gov't needs to reflect the need and realities of country. A non indo or afro wouldn't be able to relate to the majority races of the island so why should they lead them?
eliteauto wrote:You do know some citizens regard themselves as Trinidadians and Tobagonians right?Redress10 wrote:I also don't agree that a non indo or afro should be our PM. Our gov't needs to reflect the need and realities of country. A non indo or afro wouldn't be able to relate to the majority races of the island so why should they lead them?
Bro 1% running/stealing this country.Redress10 wrote:I also don't agree that a non indo or afro should be our PM. Our gov't needs to reflect the need and realities of country. A non indo or afro wouldn't be able to relate to the majority races of the island so why should they lead them?
That is because they hesitated and allowed themselves to be swallowed by the UNC. If they remained independent they would could have been a viable third party now. I think everybody's problem in this country is that we do not think long term.l33t2 wrote:Your head in the right place but it's unrealistic, COP had the best momentum ever for a 3rd party and they did not win a seat. A 3rd party to succeedimg5 is extremely unlikely. And guess what? You'll end up with another 'corrupt' party after 5 years, just human nature especially here in tnt
This is racist, but worse than that, it's just a poor argument. Why can't a non indo or afro relate to the races of the island?Redress10 wrote:I also don't agree that a non indo or afro should be our PM. Our gov't needs to reflect the need and realities of country. A non indo or afro wouldn't be able to relate to the majority races of the island so why should they lead them?
Slartibartfast wrote:That is because they hesitated and allowed themselves to be swallowed by the UNC. If they remained independent they would could have been a viable third party now. I think everybody's problem in this country is that we do not think long term.l33t2 wrote:Your head in the right place but it's unrealistic, COP had the best momentum ever for a 3rd party and they did not win a seat. A 3rd party to succeedimg5 is extremely unlikely. And guess what? You'll end up with another 'corrupt' party after 5 years, just human nature especially here in tnt
Following your logic, do you think that UNC and PNM will last for the next 50 years, 100 years, 500 years, 1000 years? It's common knowledge that nothing lasts forever, so why treat the orange party like they are going to?
Also, how else do you expect change to start? They will meet their end somewhere and at sometime. This is how change starts. With one person, taking one action to start on a non-viable solution until it builds into something viable.
Voting the "lesser of two evils" just delays this change for the better so that we can continue down the same path that has been failing is for the last 10 years.
Again, I agree with you btw. You are correct when you say that a 3rd part succeeding is extemely unlikely. In fact I will say it is impossible for one to succeed in 2020, 5% chance for success in 2025 and maybe a 15% chance of success in 2030 if we stop voting for the lesser of two evils now. But if we continue, we just delay the inevitable. The PNM and UNC will end because all things that exist come to an end. The question is, how do you want it to end. In your control with some chance at a better future or when our economy just cant handle the poor leadership anymore and we end up like Venezuela.This is racist, but worse than that, it's just a poor argument. Why can't a non indo or afro relate to the races of the island?Redress10 wrote:I also don't agree that a non indo or afro should be our PM. Our gov't needs to reflect the need and realities of country. A non indo or afro wouldn't be able to relate to the majority races of the island so why should they lead them?
Redress10 wrote:Slartibarfast
How is it racist? Where in the world would you get a leader to be elected who doesn't reflect the racial composition of the country?
People are naturally tribal by nature so they seek familiarity in their leaders. If you disagree then please show me a black uk prime minister or a white president of china.
You all are not being realistic. Most minorities in TT live closed off from the rest of the population only interacting when it's time to interact with public service or for economic gains. Are you saying that these people would be able to relate to the other races of tt who they see as nothing more than dollar signs?
Slartibartfast wrote:That is because they hesitated and allowed themselves to be swallowed by the UNC. If they remained independent they would could have been a viable third party now. I think everybody's problem in this country is that we do not think long term.l33t2 wrote:Your head in the right place but it's unrealistic, COP had the best momentum ever for a 3rd party and they did not win a seat. A 3rd party to succeedimg5 is extremely unlikely. And guess what? You'll end up with another 'corrupt' party after 5 years, just human nature especially here in tnt
Following your logic, do you think that UNC and PNM will last for the next 50 years, 100 years, 500 years, 1000 years? It's common knowledge that nothing lasts forever, so why treat the orange party like they are going to?
Also, how else do you expect change to start? They will meet their end somewhere and at sometime. This is how change starts. With one person, taking one action to start on a non-viable solution until it builds into something viable.
Voting the "lesser of two evils" just delays this change for the better so that we can continue down the same path that has been failing is for the last 10 years.
Again, I agree with you btw. You are correct when you say that a 3rd part succeeding is extemely unlikely. In fact I will say it is impossible for one to succeed in 2020, 5% chance for success in 2025 and maybe a 15% chance of success in 2030 if we stop voting for the lesser of two evils now. But if we continue, we just delay the inevitable. The PNM and UNC will end because all things that exist come to an end. The question is, how do you want it to end. In your control with some chance at a better future or when our economy just cant handle the poor leadership anymore and we end up like Venezuela.This is racist, but worse than that, it's just a poor argument. Why can't a non indo or afro relate to the races of the island?Redress10 wrote:I also don't agree that a non indo or afro should be our PM. Our gov't needs to reflect the need and realities of country. A non indo or afro wouldn't be able to relate to the majority races of the island so why should they lead them?
Slartibartfast wrote:Redress10 wrote:Slartibarfast
How is it racist? Where in the world would you get a leader to be elected who doesn't reflect the racial composition of the country?
People are naturally tribal by nature so they seek familiarity in their leaders. If you disagree then please show me a black uk prime minister or a white president of china.
You all are not being realistic. Most minorities in TT live closed off from the rest of the population only interacting when it's time to interact with public service or for economic gains. Are you saying that these people would be able to relate to the other races of tt who they see as nothing more than dollar signs?
In your original post you said "should not" implying that being of a certain race is a requirement on principle. It seemed as though you had a moral objection. That moral objection would have been racist. I disagreed with that.
This post argues that someone that is not afro or trini would not be able to become PM because of our current racial biases. If this better represents your point of view then I have no issue. I don't think anything is impossible but under our current circumstances I don't think we will see a non-afro or non-indo PM before 2030. Could be 2050 if people still consider voting for the lesser of two evils as an acceptable way forward.
Redress10 wrote:Indos are pacified when unc is in power and afros are pacified when pnm is in power. That is the reality of the situation.
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