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Blaze d Chalice wrote:Redress10 wrote:Indos are pacified when unc is in power and afros are pacified when pnm is in power. That is the reality of the situation.
You lost meh dey.
I think you mean emboldened.
For example look how the crime rate increases when Pnm is in charge, and most of the bandits/murderers/pests are Pnm voters/supporters. And look at the victims of the crimes (referring to robbery/home invasion/etc, not pest killing pest)
And don't say I being racial.
I watching the LGE results-map when I use the term pnm voters
What UNC corruption?Slartibartfast wrote:Corruption. Corruption made UNC so bad. It made them so bad that the country voted them out. The country never wanted PNM in power. They voted UNC out. Before that, the country voted the PNM out. What you are calling for is a repeat of 2010 which will then give rise to a repeat of 2015 when we hit 2025. I'll set out my argument in point form and you can just pick which ones you disagree with and just reference the ones you agree with
1.0 The people of Trinidad and Tobago have a short political memory.
1.1 This leads to us being prejudiced against the party currently in power because their more recent atrocities overshadow those of the previous administration from 5 years before. Check out the effect.
2010 "PNM is the worst. We need to vote them out. The UNC is the only viable option."
2015 "UNC is the worst. We need to vote them out. How bad could the PNM be. Manning gone now"
2020 "PNM is the worst. We need to vote them out.... the UNC... is the.... hmmm.... this road look familiar..."
2025 "???"
2.0 The UNC and the PNM are far friendlier than to each other than they portray towards their supporters. They protect each other from any real harm.
2.1 Four years into the PNM administration and Rowley still alleging rampant corruption in the UNC. How many UNC politicians are being investigated right now? What happened to Life Sport. Side question... what Anil Roberts up to these days after he was a central figure in Life Sport?
2.2 The Uff Report and the Bernard report were at the UNC's disposal when they were in power and many PNM advocates and influencers were named (not sure what to call them). What came of those investigations?
3.0 Voting for the "Lesser of Two Evils" sets the bar extremely low for the person tasked with leading our nation. According to your argument, even if one party is actively hurting the country, we should still vote for them as long as they are hurting the country less than the other party. How can we move forward as a nation if we tell our leaders that moving backwards is an acceptable solution, once they not moving backwards as fast as the next person.
4.0 Voting for the "lesser of two evils" when there is a better third option because it is not a viable option ensures that a third party will never be a viable option. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy grounded in stupidity and resulting in suffering.
4.1 We are a bandwagonist culture. But worse yet, we complain about other being bandwagonists while complaining from the top of our own bandwagon. You complain that a third party will never be a viable option because people won't vote for it. When asked people like you if they will vote for a good third party you say no... because people like them not voting for it *jackiechanwhaaaaaaface.jpg*
5.0 Voting for the "lesser of two evils" perpetuates a lazy and politically uninformed voting base that is both the symptom and the cause of the very tribal based voting system that you complain about.
5.1 If we want better representation we need to become better voters. That means looking at all the options and choosing the option that we think is best. That way you only reward the who you think is best. To do anything else is just a waste of your vote and foolish. It will send the message to the orange party that they just need to be better than the worse part of themself and it will send the message to good alternatives that it does not make sense to try. The game is deterministic in nature and it has already determined that the best options shall not be rewarded so don't bother to try.
6.0 Conclusions -
6.1 People should be encouraged to go out and voting. Abstaining is bad for our future.
6.2 People should educate themselves on all of the alternatives that are available, or at the very least, pay attention to representatives outside of the orange party.
6.3 People should vote ONLY on who they think will be the BEST option. Voting is an independent right and should not be influenced by the voting trends of others.
So go ahead and vote UNC if you want, but do so if you think they will do the best job at building this country. Do not cast your vote in anger or else you will be lead in incompetence. Cast your vote based on your own personal good judgement and encourage others to do the same.
EFCL, CISL to name a few that made the newspapers. I witness a lot as well as I was involved in the construction industry during that time but the documents are property of the companies I worked for so I can't name names without risking a libel lawsuit on myself.zoom rader wrote:What UNC corruption?
Slartibartfast wrote:
Corruption. Corruption made UNC so bad.EFCL, CISL to name a few that made the newspapers. I witness a lot as well as I was involved in the construction industry during that time but the documents are property of the companies I worked for so I can't name names without risking a libel lawsuit on myself.zoom rader wrote:What UNC corruption?
It made them so bad that the country voted them out. The country never wanted PNM in power. They voted UNC out. Before that, the country voted the PNM out. What you are calling for is a repeat of 2010 which will then give rise to a repeat of 2015 when we hit 2025. I'll set out my argument in point form and you can just pick which ones you disagree with and just reference the ones you agree with
1.0 The people of Trinidad and Tobago have a short political memory.
1.1 This leads to us being prejudiced against the party currently in power because their more recent atrocities overshadow those of the previous administration from 5 years before. Check out the effect.
2010 "PNM is the worst. We need to vote them out. The UNC is the only viable option."
2015 "UNC is the worst. We need to vote them out. How bad could the PNM be. Manning gone now"
2020 "PNM is the worst. We need to vote them out.... the UNC... is the.... hmmm.... this road look familiar..."
2025 "???"
2.0 The UNC and the PNM are far friendlier than to each other than they portray towards their supporters. They protect each other from any real harm.
2.1 Four years into the PNM administration and Rowley still alleging rampant corruption in the UNC. How many UNC politicians are being investigated right now? What happened to Life Sport. Side question... what Anil Roberts up to these days after he was a central figure in Life Sport?
2.2 The Uff Report and the Bernard report were at the UNC's disposal when they were in power and many PNM advocates and influencers were named (not sure what to call them). What came of those investigations?
3.0 Voting for the "Lesser of Two Evils" sets the bar extremely low for the person tasked with leading our nation. According to your argument, even if one party is actively hurting the country, we should still vote for them as long as they are hurting the country less than the other party. How can we move forward as a nation if we tell our leaders that moving backwards is an acceptable solution, once they not moving backwards as fast as the next person.
4.0 Voting for the "lesser of two evils" when there is a better third option because it is not a viable option ensures that a third party will never be a viable option. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy grounded in stupidity and resulting in suffering.
4.1 We are a bandwagonist culture. But worse yet, we complain about other being bandwagonists while complaining from the top of our own bandwagon. You complain that a third party will never be a viable option because people won't vote for it. When asked people like you if they will vote for a good third party you say no... because people like them not voting for it *jackiechanwhaaaaaaface.jpg*
5.0 Voting for the "lesser of two evils" perpetuates a lazy and politically uninformed voting base that is both the symptom and the cause of the very tribal based voting system that you complain about.
5.1 If we want better representation we need to become better voters. That means looking at all the options and choosing the option that we think is best. That way you only reward the who you think is best. To do anything else is just a waste of your vote and foolish. It will send the message to the orange party that they just need to be better than the worse part of themself and it will send the message to good alternatives that it does not make sense to try. The game is deterministic in nature and it has already determined that the best options shall not be rewarded so don't bother to try.
6.0 Voting for the "lesser of two evils" takes all of the self corrective measures out of the democratic process.
6.1 So what if we elect a waste of time third party. By having an informed voting base we are sure to get them out of there quickly and not have to bother with them again. We are now able to act as the corrective force in the system.
6.2 We would not have to treat politicians as though they are royalty. Allowing them to keep their job regarding of criminal allegations or lack of performance. Look Anil Roberts making and comeback and Marlene McDonald has made more comebacks than a wrestlemania title match.
7.0 Conclusions -
7.1 People should be encouraged to go out and voting. Abstaining is bad for our future.
7.2 People should educate themselves on all of the alternatives that are available, or at the very least, pay attention to representatives outside of the orange party.
7.3 People should vote ONLY on who they think will be the BEST option. Voting is an independent right and should not be influenced by the voting trends of others.
So go ahead and vote UNC if you want, but do so if you think they will do the best job at building this country. Do not cast your vote in anger or else you will be lead in incompetence. Cast your vote based on your own personal good judgement and encourage others to do the same.
Redman wrote:Well said Slartibartfast
ZR-will have nothing but ole talk-and the facts known only to him.
If you get past that you will 'not understand the higher heights he operating that.
Both would be after he calls you a blogger....and some other banal BS.
Redress10 wrote:Corruption is based on historical social inequalities and marginalisation faced by indos and afros before independence. Our system was always corrupt it was never meant to be fair. The white minority elite needed the races divided to ensure access to the wealth. This has been replaced by the oligarchs and political directorship who continue these practices.
1.0 This has nothing to do with political memory. We are not sophisticated political beings. This country votes on race and race only. Your points here apply to swing voters who vote according to policy etc. Unc and pnm are assured of x amount of votes each election. Unc more than pnm cause their supporters never abstain from voting even when pissed with unc. Pnm supporters abstain when they angry at pnm causing pnm to lose elections.
2.0 The game isn't development. The game js politics to ensure access to govt funds to enrich friends and family. That is is. If it was abt development then corruption facilitators would face court and not picong on a political stage. Remember that gov't is the largest company in TT. They dominate the economy. We elect people to be in charge of billions of our money who have never even run a cake sale in their lives and then complain when they are abject failures.
Like I said "lessor evil" voting applies to swing voters and not the die hard UNC and PNM voters. Swing voters are usually more politically sophisticated and educated than both parties' supporters.
All of this is pointless because the country itself has no direction. TT hasn't figured out what it wants to be in the world. The country doesn't know what development is. Manning vision of development was a set of white elephants all over the place. Kamla boasts that she build a children's hospital. Rowley building highway to Toco. We are a LEGO nation.
I did work with EFCL and CISL as well as countless others. I had colleagues that worked with these entities as well. I have enough first hand knowledge to confirm for myself what I saw printed in the news papers about both entities. Also, everything I witnessed was completely legal. A lot of corruption is. That's a huge part of the problem.zoom rader wrote:All that you said is hearsay coming from PNM media house with an agenda and not Valid.
When they make a Jail and then come and talk to me.
Until then its just a good story
It's all hearsay broSlartibartfast wrote:I did work with EFCL and CISL as well as countless others. I had colleagues that worked with these entities as well. I have enough first hand knowledge to confirm for myself what I saw printed in the news papers about both entities. Also, everything I witnessed was completely legal. A lot of corruption is. That's a huge part of the problem.zoom rader wrote:All that you said is hearsay coming from PNM media house with an agenda and not Valid.
When they make a Jail and then come and talk to me.
Until then its just a good story
My point is they won't make a jail, not because they aren't corrupt, but because the PNM supports them more than you do. How many PNM politicians made a jail under UNC? Are you also of the view that the PNM is a beacon for honesty, transparency and integrity as well?
Zoom, I am of the view that if you were to look past your political biases you would be an extremely intelligent individual.
Try to look at the UNC through your PNM glasses
and I guarantee it will blow your mind.
Redress10 wrote:Nothing about lesser of two evils. What you requesting requires a population with critical analysis skills. Our education system doesn't allow for that. Our problems run deep.
Realistically we do need to vote for lesser of two evils in short term. Jamaica seems to be doing good now. Going through real development policies so it can be done.
Redress10 wrote:Slartibartfast
The problem is not the two party system.
The problem is that trinis have no clue what development and nation building is so it doesn't matter who sits in that seat. Nothing is going to get done until the country changes its mindset and puts development at the forefront.
Let's be real now TT occupies some of the lowest rankings in terms of development. Shouldn't our development be based on climbing these rankings. For instance, if our economy is ranked 90 something shouldn't we be aiming to reach 60 something in 5 years and 30 something in 10 years and create policy to reflect this? That by itself will ensure we moving in the right direction. Instead we getting excuses based on "culture" or because we "third world". Just paving roads and making highways not going to make us developed but its going to encourage corruption though.
I am 30 as well.
Slartibartfast wrote:Redress10 wrote:Slartibartfast
The problem is not the two party system.
The problem is that trinis have no clue what development and nation building is so it doesn't matter who sits in that seat. Nothing is going to get done until the country changes its mindset and puts development at the forefront.
Let's be real now TT occupies some of the lowest rankings in terms of development. Shouldn't our development be based on climbing these rankings. For instance, if our economy is ranked 90 something shouldn't we be aiming to reach 60 something in 5 years and 30 something in 10 years and create policy to reflect this? That by itself will ensure we moving in the right direction. Instead we getting excuses based on "culture" or because we "third world". Just paving roads and making highways not going to make us developed but its going to encourage corruption though.
I am 30 as well.
Again, our opinions are almost the same. I'll jist say that there are some trinis that know better and thanks to the internet that number grows everyday.
My problem is voting for the lesser of two evils will only guarantee that we continue to have the same problems. Voting based on knowledge will be rough at first but ultimately it will get better. We will need to do it some time amd it's better to get it started sooner than later.
As for zoom boy, I know nothing will change your mind. That is a sad thing because by deciding to fix your mind to your bias you habe rendered both your vote and your opinion worthless. I don't think you are a fool because you make good arguments sometimes. I just think you habe grown too attached to foolish ideas. Anyway, you have no reason to believe me. I was there and experienced things first hand so I know what went on, but thats just me.
My mind will change when folk get jail for corruption.Slartibartfast wrote:Redress10 wrote:Slartibartfast
The problem is not the two party system.
The problem is that trinis have no clue what development and nation building is so it doesn't matter who sits in that seat. Nothing is going to get done until the country changes its mindset and puts development at the forefront.
Let's be real now TT occupies some of the lowest rankings in terms of development. Shouldn't our development be based on climbing these rankings. For instance, if our economy is ranked 90 something shouldn't we be aiming to reach 60 something in 5 years and 30 something in 10 years and create policy to reflect this? That by itself will ensure we moving in the right direction. Instead we getting excuses based on "culture" or because we "third world". Just paving roads and making highways not going to make us developed but its going to encourage corruption though.
I am 30 as well.
Again, our opinions are almost the same. I'll jist say that there are some trinis that know better and thanks to the internet that number grows everyday.
My problem is voting for the lesser of two evils will only guarantee that we continue to have the same problems. Voting based on knowledge will be rough at first but ultimately it will get better. We will need to do it some time amd it's better to get it started sooner than later.
As for zoom boy, I know nothing will change your mind. That is a sad thing because by deciding to fix your mind to your bias you habe rendered both your vote and your opinion worthless. I don't think you are a fool because you make good arguments sometimes. I just think you habe grown too attached to foolish ideas. Anyway, you have no reason to believe me. I was there and experienced things first hand so I know what went on, but thats just me.
Can you tell me who was jailed for UNC corruption beside Bas?one eye wrote:Zoom rader read your entire piece only to reply with "What UNC corruption?"
That is very disrespectful to you Slart. Zoom rader does not contribute to anything on this forum besides hate, racism and unintelligible opinions.
one eye wrote:Zoom rader read your entire piece only to reply with "What UNC corruption?"
That is very disrespectful to you Slart. Zoom rader does not contribute to anything on this forum besides hate, racism and unintelligible opinions.
zoom rader wrote:Can you tell me who was jailed for UNC corruption beside Bas?one eye wrote:Zoom rader read your entire piece only to reply with "What UNC corruption?"
That is very disrespectful to you Slart. Zoom rader does not contribute to anything on this forum besides hate, racism and unintelligible opinions.
I read where Marlene is before the courts , so will wait for the out come of that.
Off course I tell ppl to vote PNM and PNM will win elections. It's because we live in stupid country filled with stupid people that vote PNM.Slartibartfast wrote:zoom rader wrote:Can you tell me who was jailed for UNC corruption beside Bas?one eye wrote:Zoom rader read your entire piece only to reply with "What UNC corruption?"
That is very disrespectful to you Slart. Zoom rader does not contribute to anything on this forum besides hate, racism and unintelligible opinions.
I read where Marlene is before the courts , so will wait for the out come of that.
Lol, Marlene not even in jail though. And she is not the leader of the PNM. That means by your own admission, the PNM is more honest, transparent and has a higher integrity than the UNC.
In a startling twist you have decided to go pro PNM and ANTI-UNC just to stick to your bias.
I guess you think slavery was good, as well as the holocaust because a lot of people didn't get arrested for those either. Are you also in support of child pornographers and peadophiles as long as they stay under the radar?
Nope , read it againSlartibartfast wrote:I think you replied to the wrong comment bro. You quoted me but didn't address anything that I said. Care to try again?
Well prove me wrong nahRedress10 wrote:Zoom is the sort of person this country needs to move on from.
Man is a professional troll.
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