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Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » May 4th, 2020, 2:25 pm

‘Don’t cancel Carnival’

http://www.guardian.co.tt/article/dont- ... 2ce3aaaa25

COVID-19 has already led to the cancellation carnival events for 2020 all over the world, and T&T’s leading mas and event practitioners have contended that if Carnival 2021 is cancelled, the impact would be huge and devastating on the country’s economy. 

In an interview with the Sunday Business Guardian (SBG) leader of the Tribe Group Dean Ackin said: “The cancellation of Carnival will have a very big impact on the country as Carnival provides employment for thousands of people in various types of businesses.”

According to Ackin, Carnival bands provide direct employment to dozens of production workers, costume makers, costume designers, bartenders, truck drivers, food workers, DJs , musicians, sound and lighting companies, graphic artistes and photographers etc. 

Ackin highlighted that Carnival’s eco-system would be disrupted as well, as the festival provides indirect earnings to complimentary services like airlines, hotels, guests houses, taxi drivers, food vendors, beauty services, tour operators, security services, signage printers and more. 

Also speaking to the SBG was bandleader of Kalicharan’s Carnival, Aaron Kalicharan who commented on the impact of Carnival’s possible cancellation: “We are not just thinking about bikini and beads and feathers.”

According to Kalicharan, cash flows to many other businesses like hardwares would also be adversely touched by Carnival’s cancellation. Kalicharan articulated: “A lot of people don’t know, the hardwares make so much of cash turnover from Carnival.” This is because plyboard, wires and glue are major sellers during that season. 

Data from a collaborative study done by the Central Bank and the Central Statistical Office (CSO) indicated that Carnival accounted for 42.5 per cent of the country’s tourism expenditure for 2019. 

Using information from the Caribbean Tourism Organisation on tourist arrivals for 2019 (479,999) and information on the average daily expenditure for tourists in T&T ($670), it can be estimated that $322million was spent in T&T for 2019.

Therefore, with Carnival accounting for 42.5 per cent of the aforementioned figure, it means that the expenditure for Carnival alone was $136.85 million for 2019. 

Ackin said that while Carnival is a seasonal industry, many people depend on its seasonal income to provide for the entire year.  He argued: “Whereas the bigger players may be able to rally through the year without income, there are many small companies and individuals who will suffer financially if Carnival needed to be cancelled because of COVID-19.”

According to Ackin, a postponement rather than a cancellation would be a better option. He highlighted the fact that any company or person without income for a year would find it difficult to survive, as no income means the businesses will not be able to pay their staff and other operating expenses.

“This will lead to layoffs and the closing of businesses who are unable to withstand the hard times ahead,” said Ackin. He admitted that the entertainment industry along with tourism and hospitality are the hardest being hit by this pandemic.

However, more immediate losses were experienced by some band leaders as they would have had to cancel foreign events. Ackin indicated that his company had to cancel its “Ignite Jamaica” event and his team is still looking on to see what will be become of events planned for New York, London and Miami. 

Ackin added: “Local events that will be affected are Jamin Summer which we hold in June, and our signature Band Launch, “Festival of the Bands” in July.”

Meanwhile, commander-in-chief of Caesar’s Army Jules Sobion said: “For the time being I have cancelled five events.”

Sobion indicated that Caesar’s Army had two scheduled events for Jamaica’s Carnival, one event in New York that was due in June and another in St Lucia because its carnival got cancelled

The other event is Sobion’s Independence Day event, which has not been outright cancelled but still tentative as Caesar’s Army monitors the decisions of the government. 

The loss of opportunities to engineer foreign events have hurt the revenues of event specialists. Sobion indicated that his events outside of T&T Carnival contribute to 50 per cent of his company’s revenue. 

However, he remains optimistic as he remarked: “It (revenue) has not been lost - but it has just been removed.”  Sobion argued that during this time companies should prepare for the worst, expect the best and adapt to what the changing environment brings. 

In travelling from event to event, Sobion indicated that COVID-19’s destabilising force has given him the time to think and evaluate his company. He noted that Caesar’s Army is based on event production, event marketing and digital media and has to now reinvent itself by exploring other services that can be provided from a virtual standpoint. 

Sobion also articulated that the government’s re-evaluation of revenue earning industries outside of oil and gas plays a pivotal role in the midst of COVID-19. He noted that the nascent industries should be considered as the rebuilding process begins post COVID-19. 

The three businessmen noted that their plans for T&T Carnival 2021 have been disrupted as Tribe planned since 2019 and Kalicharan’s planning process would normally begin in April for the following year. 

The National Carnival Commission (NCC) will announce by August if Carnival 2021 would be moving forward based on the directive of the government. When asked if an August announcement would give the leaders enough to prepare—Ackin, Sobion and Kalicharan all noted, yes. 

Ackin said that after September 1, the lead time to get certain things done becomes a bit slim and full scale production becomes harder, albeit not impossible. He noted that the group has always done as much production as it could in Trinidad, but given the current situation and logistical constraints posed by the coronavirus, it may mean ordering materials earlier, and doing more in Trinidad once the capacity is available.

He indicated that ordering and planning “with the COVID factor” is extremely difficult because of the huge uncertainty attached. He likened it to trying to hit a moving target.

Although Kalicharan said that he normally gets supplies from New York and China, he can migrate to doing everything in T&T as the scale of his operations are manageable and it was done before. 

The bandleaders remarked that above all, the health and safety of all citizens, patrons and masquerades are pre-eminent and they await the instructions from the government and global health bodies. 

According to Ackin, “the silver lining in all this for the local and regional entertainment industry is that once a Vaccine becomes available and people feel safe again, Caribbean people will bounce back faster than the rest of the world.”

He continued: “We are social people by nature and will be in a fête and on the road in a heartbeat!”

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby Gladiator » May 4th, 2020, 2:31 pm

You really are a sheit for brains... show some data to back up your claims of $400M TTD injected to our economy from Carnival or is just horse piss you talking.

Right now our money is worth jack $hit, we cant even trade up the islands for plantains and sweet potato with it. If we continue to use our oil earned forex to party with and not invest it in some industry to create exports so that we can earn more forex then we are just as doomed as Venezuela.

Just lastnight had a small documentary on CNC3 where the economy and Carnival was mentioned as a serious drain on the economy. It was estimated that almost a billion TTD is spent on Carnival every year with little to no returns. The killer line from the Narrator was when they interviewed the UWI lecturer that making pharmaceuticals from swamp moss and he said that Cuba is turning this research into a billion dollar industry but UWI has no investment in it. The narrator then went on to say how could a country that spend a billion dollars on carnival with no returns is not willing to put a couple million to develop a potential forex revenue earner through this type of research."

Carnival was, is an will always be a drain on the economy....

Talking bout economics....

But again, it's not really about that. It's about the associated economic activity. There are tens of thousands of people who earn money from carnival season. These same people now take their money and spend in our local economy.

What you think they spending their Carnival earnings on dummy..... more imported goods and services. (Courts, Massy, Pricemart, Digicel, Netflix)

Without FOREX we are a worthless economy.... we IMPORT EVERYTHING... except a couple agricultural products and poultry of which we don't even produce enough for local consumption.... I know it have idiots out there that center their lives around Carnival... but you hadda be the king of them all.

Dohplaydat wrote:
Gladiator wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote:
eurotuner wrote:Lol some real haters in here boy, same will biggup foreign culture, dance Hall reggae and rock crap(all of which I like, but local thing first) over local vibes. Anyways... Don't think there will be one, at all from recent developments within the bigger camps and I agree there should not be any. They will use this time to evolve, just like everything else. Carnival is a money machine... So allot of ppl who are not directly involved OR don't think they're involved may feel a pinch come Jan Feb and March, it has a serious trickle down effect in revenue for businesses.


Yup many people don't realize how much business and money carnival generates. But leave them.

Either way, we can't have Carnival next year, no vaccine, recession in we tail and no vibe.

But don't worry, C2k22 will be epic.


How exactly does Carnival "generate money".... if hypothetically we take $100 million USD out of the system to import food/drink/costumes for Carnival and then sell the fete/band/party tickets in $TTD to the tune of $300 Million TTD how is the forex being recovered? Do we have enough "tourists" coming and spending their USD here to recover all the money spent on Carnival?


Your way of thinking is way too simplistic. Firstly, imagine we didn't import food and drink at all. Who loses out there?

Fete promoters, delivery men, bar tenders, caterers. They all profit from sales. Like literally all retail in Trinidad.

It's not about recovering Forex, who the ass taught you economics? It's about Economic activity and circulation.

Now let's think about the Forex received. We have 40k visitors over this period who would put in at least 1.5k USD each into our economy. That's 400M TT 'recovered'. And it's likely much more than that. In my experience visitors here will pay 10k average in accommodation and/or fetes, then another 5k in costumes. That's average, I not even counting all the thousand of foreigners who will pay 40k TT a week to stay in One Woodbrook Place, buy front line costumes and hit 5 fetes and jouvet for Carnival week. Not to mention all the food and groceries they buying too.

But again, it's not really about that. It's about the associated economic activity. There are tens of thousands of people who earn money from carnival season. These same people now take their money and spend in our local economy.

Generating more business, more taxes and more economic growth.

That's what carnival is about, economic growth and stimulation.

Especially as oil and gas isn't likely to ever go back up and we just killed most of the economy due to Covid-19, Carnival is absolutely needed and any smart government would enhance, improve and market this festival heavily from 2022 onwards.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby Dohplaydat » May 4th, 2020, 2:50 pm

Wow please please learn about economics for your own sake.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby A172 » May 4th, 2020, 3:11 pm

Dohplaydat wrote:Wow please please learn about economics for your own sake.
lawyer, epidemiologist & now economist

yet d only profession u doing irl is posing

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby Slartibartfast » May 4th, 2020, 3:26 pm

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:‘Don’t cancel Carnival’

http://www.guardian.co.tt/article/dont- ... 2ce3aaaa25

According to Ackin, a postponement rather than a cancellation would be a better option.

I find we should let Carnival stack like holidays. No Carnival in 2021, have a 4 day Carnival in 2022.

Or if the COVID19 date end earlier you could take 1 Carnival day later in the year close to a holiday to get a longer weekend and leave 1 Carnival day inside in case of an emergency.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby *$kїđž!™ » May 4th, 2020, 3:33 pm

Once the world doesnt recover from covid and there is still.social.distancing..there could never be carnival 2021

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby zoom rader » May 4th, 2020, 3:34 pm

Nice to see men now understanding why to ban carnival.

But the main reason is money laundering and that's why big bussiness dont want it banned.

Brazil carnival is fuel by their local mafia and money laundereds. It's the same in Trini and the government is helping these criminals.

You guys only seeing the man on the ground, but it's the guys behind the curtain that are benefiting.

All this talk that small man have to make a money is a joke.

I suspect these carnival entertainers are all linked to Under world and are use as a vessel for money laundering.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby MDtuner70 » May 4th, 2020, 3:55 pm

pugboy wrote:boy you asking hard questions
i always thought the same but was shame to ask them questions


Lol

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby Dizzy28 » May 4th, 2020, 4:01 pm

Jules response was so much better than Dean in that article above.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby pugboy » May 4th, 2020, 4:31 pm

yeah the man say from DJ to vendors,
the vendors have gone out of business with the all-inclusive concept.

zoom rader wrote:Nice to see men now understanding why to ban carnival.

But the main reason is money laundering and that's why big bussiness dont want it banned.

Brazil carnival is fuel by their local mafia and money laundereds. It's the same in Trini and the government is helping these criminals.

You guys only seeing the man on the ground, but it's the guys behind the curtain that are benefiting.

All this talk that small man have to make a money is a joke.

I suspect these carnival entertainers are all linked to Under world and are use as a vessel for money laundering.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby pugboy » May 4th, 2020, 4:33 pm

them carnival band and ting does inject back the USD they make from foreign masqueraders and party goers ?
they all throw same them parties in other countries too and ear forex.
asking for a friend

MDtuner70 wrote:
pugboy wrote:boy you asking hard questions
i always thought the same but was shame to ask them questions


Lol

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby Kenjo » May 4th, 2020, 4:33 pm

Dizzy28 wrote:Jules response was so much better than Dean in that article above.

Both of them said the same thing but it’s the headline that was misleading actually . No one is insisting on carnival . They actually acknowledge if it’s not to be then it will be cancelled .

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby Redress10 » May 4th, 2020, 5:04 pm

I don't think carnival should be banned but it should be regulated, taxed and shouldn't inconvenience people who are not involved in it. POS shouldn't shut down because of it. What's the opportunity costs for the lost productivity for the 6-8 weeks leading up to the event.

What about the societal cost due to this increasing carnival culture/mentality that is now in the country?

Carnival needs to take place in a way that doesn't shut down the country anymore.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby Dave » May 4th, 2020, 5:14 pm

I can categorically say absolutely no. The Forex never makes it way to Trinidad and Tobago in the sums that they maybe proporting to imply.
pugboy wrote:them carnival band and ting does inject back the USD they make from foreign masqueraders and party goers ?
they all throw same them parties in other countries too and ear forex.
asking for a friend

MDtuner70 wrote:
pugboy wrote:boy you asking hard questions
i always thought the same but was shame to ask them questions


Lol

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby Dohplaydat » May 4th, 2020, 5:17 pm

Dave wrote:I can categorically say absolutely no. The Forex never makes it way to Trinidad and Tobago in the sums that they maybe proporting to imply.
pugboy wrote:them carnival band and ting does inject back the USD they make from foreign masqueraders and party goers ?
they all throw same them parties in other countries too and ear forex.
asking for a friend

MDtuner70 wrote:
pugboy wrote:boy you asking hard questions
i always thought the same but was shame to ask them questions


Lol


Prove it, I'm very involved in the carnival industry and can tell you that you have no idea how much wealth and prosperity carnival creates for tens of thousands of citizens.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby Dave » May 4th, 2020, 5:18 pm

Lol I didn't say anything about employing ppl and how much it generates, I spoke about the Forex and the repatriation of those funds.
Dohplaydat wrote:
Dave wrote:I can categorically say absolutely no. The Forex never makes it way to Trinidad and Tobago in the sums that they maybe proporting to imply.
pugboy wrote:them carnival band and ting does inject back the USD they make from foreign masqueraders and party goers ?
they all throw same them parties in other countries too and ear forex.
asking for a friend

MDtuner70 wrote:
pugboy wrote:boy you asking hard questions
i always thought the same but was shame to ask them questions


Lol


Prove it, I'm very involved in the carnival industry and can tell you that you have no idea how much wealth and prosperity carnival creates for tens of thousands of citizens.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby Dohplaydat » May 4th, 2020, 5:19 pm

Redress10 wrote:I don't think carnival should be banned but it should be regulated, taxed and shouldn't inconvenience people who are not involved in it. POS shouldn't shut down because of it. What's the opportunity costs for the lost productivity for the 6-8 weeks leading up to the event.

What about the societal cost due to this increasing carnival culture/mentality that is now in the country?

Carnival needs to take place in a way that doesn't shut down the country anymore.


It is taxed and extremely regulated. The opportunity cost can measured next year, but I can tell you first hand, other than the time lost at school, there is no detriment economically other than the cost of business we lose for ~1 week. But the gains from that one week are easily surpassed by almost 5 to 10x the earnings made from Carnival.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby Dave » May 4th, 2020, 5:22 pm

How can it be taxed effectively if it pays St Lucia 1%?
I absolutely understand effective tax structures but saying you are patriotic and what have you, ppl not knowing the truth doesn't lend to you credibility.

Dohplaydat wrote:
Redress10 wrote:I don't think carnival should be banned but it should be regulated, taxed and shouldn't inconvenience people who are not involved in it. POS shouldn't shut down because of it. What's the opportunity costs for the lost productivity for the 6-8 weeks leading up to the event.

What about the societal cost due to this increasing carnival culture/mentality that is now in the country?

Carnival needs to take place in a way that doesn't shut down the country anymore.


It is taxed and extremely regulated. The opportunity cost can measured next year, but I can tell you first hand, other than the time lost at school, there is no detriment economically other than the cost of business we lose for ~1 week. But the gains from that one week are easily surpassed by almost 5 to 10x the earnings made from Carnival.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby pugboy » May 4th, 2020, 5:26 pm

No doubt the big bands pay taxes

Does any govt agency do a headcount at parties and boat rides ?
Do djs and hypemen declare the lil cash change they collect for appearances ?
Asking for a friend ?

Dohplaydat wrote:
Redress10 wrote:I don't think carnival should be banned but it should be regulated, taxed and shouldn't inconvenience people who are not involved in it. POS shouldn't shut down because of it. What's the opportunity costs for the lost productivity for the 6-8 weeks leading up to the event.

What about the societal cost due to this increasing carnival culture/mentality that is now in the country?

Carnival needs to take place in a way that doesn't shut down the country anymore.


It is taxed and extremely regulated. The opportunity cost can measured next year, but I can tell you first hand, other than the time lost at school, there is no detriment economically other than the cost of business we lose for ~1 week. But the gains from that one week are easily surpassed by almost 5 to 10x the earnings made from Carnival.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby pugboy » May 4th, 2020, 5:27 pm

Correct

Dave wrote:How can it be taxed effectively if it pays St Lucia 1%?
I absolutely understand effective tax structures but saying you are patriotic and what have you, ppl not knowing the truth doesn't lend to you credibility.

Dohplaydat wrote:
Redress10 wrote:I don't think carnival should be banned but it should be regulated, taxed and shouldn't inconvenience people who are not involved in it. POS shouldn't shut down because of it. What's the opportunity costs for the lost productivity for the 6-8 weeks leading up to the event.

What about the societal cost due to this increasing carnival culture/mentality that is now in the country?

Carnival needs to take place in a way that doesn't shut down the country anymore.


It is taxed and extremely regulated. The opportunity cost can measured next year, but I can tell you first hand, other than the time lost at school, there is no detriment economically other than the cost of business we lose for ~1 week. But the gains from that one week are easily surpassed by almost 5 to 10x the earnings made from Carnival.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby Dizzy28 » May 4th, 2020, 7:17 pm

What about overtime for the protective services for Carnival? How much does that cost annually?

Who pays it Dean, Jules or Ronnie?
Dohplaydat wrote:
Redress10 wrote:I don't think carnival should be banned but it should be regulated, taxed and shouldn't inconvenience people who are not involved in it. POS shouldn't shut down because of it. What's the opportunity costs for the lost productivity for the 6-8 weeks leading up to the event.

What about the societal cost due to this increasing carnival culture/mentality that is now in the country?

Carnival needs to take place in a way that doesn't shut down the country anymore.


It is taxed and extremely regulated. The opportunity cost can measured next year, but I can tell you first hand, other than the time lost at school, there is no detriment economically other than the cost of business we lose for ~1 week. But the gains from that one week are easily surpassed by almost 5 to 10x the earnings made from Carnival.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby shake d livin wake d dead » May 4th, 2020, 7:21 pm

Ticker on news saying "there should not be carnival next year unless a vaccine is widely available"

Let's just say, there is no carnival, would we still allow people to come in and leave as they close or would the airport be closed??

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby Kenjo » May 4th, 2020, 7:30 pm

shake d livin wake d dead wrote:Ticker on news saying "there should not be carnival next year unless a vaccine is widely available"

Let's just say, there is no carnival, would we still allow people to come in and leave as they close or would the airport be closed??

Those things depend upon corona which no one can predict right now so things will go along day by day .

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby pugboy » May 4th, 2020, 7:33 pm

it’s passed on to the end user

Dizzy28 wrote:What about overtime for the protective services for Carnival? How much does that cost annually?

Who pays it Dean, Jules or Ronnie?
Dohplaydat wrote:
Redress10 wrote:I don't think carnival should be banned but it should be regulated, taxed and shouldn't inconvenience people who are not involved in it. POS shouldn't shut down because of it. What's the opportunity costs for the lost productivity for the 6-8 weeks leading up to the event.

What about the societal cost due to this increasing carnival culture/mentality that is now in the country?

Carnival needs to take place in a way that doesn't shut down the country anymore.


It is taxed and extremely regulated. The opportunity cost can measured next year, but I can tell you first hand, other than the time lost at school, there is no detriment economically other than the cost of business we lose for ~1 week. But the gains from that one week are easily surpassed by almost 5 to 10x the earnings made from Carnival.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby Gladiator » May 4th, 2020, 7:40 pm

Dohplaydat wrote:
Redress10 wrote:I don't think carnival should be banned but it should be regulated, taxed and shouldn't inconvenience people who are not involved in it. POS shouldn't shut down because of it. What's the opportunity costs for the lost productivity for the 6-8 weeks leading up to the event.

What about the societal cost due to this increasing carnival culture/mentality that is now in the country?

Carnival needs to take place in a way that doesn't shut down the country anymore.


It is taxed and extremely regulated. The opportunity cost can measured next year, but I can tell you first hand, other than the time lost at school, there is no detriment economically other than the cost of business we lose for ~1 week. But the gains from that one week are easily surpassed by almost 5 to 10x the earnings made from Carnival.


You really are lost in space yes, you ever see VAT on a fete ticket... Carnival is totally TAX free, other than VAT and Duty paid on imports and whatever other local trade, from the snow cone man to the big promoter and the performers that get paid $500k a night, they all pay no taxes on those earnings.

That's why fete promoters saying don't cancel Carnival... its their cash cow!!!

The real cost of Carnival cannot even be measured, all we know is the direct cost due to Govt subventions. All of the indirect forex costs for imports of alcohol, mas materials, printing materials, lighting and sound equipment, foreign meat and foodstuff, disposable wares, sanitation supplies, IT related costs, decorative materials, promotional cup and bandanna etc are not even quantified. But they all cost USD... that we have limited forex to spend on.

But you is d economiss... so I guess you think that they take a feed bag of blue notes and go Scotland and buy 10 containers of Johnny Black Whisky... that patrons fulling up a tall glass with and leaving half glass all over on the ground to throw way. Or the bandanna and flag that you take and wave around in the air for a couple hours then throw in the dust bin on your way out the gate.... HOW IS THAT SUSTAINABLE???

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby eliteauto » May 4th, 2020, 7:46 pm

whether carnival takes place next year or not is still up in the air as it regards covid-19, even if we magically got a vaccine tomorrow there's still the question of whether people will want to travel, want to congregate or even have the finances to participate. I do think this situation offers a good opportunity for the state to exit it's extensive carnival financing which IMO artificially props up the festival. I agree with the stakeholders in the article, in fact I agree so much that the state should cut sponsorships to the bare minimum for fetes, events and mas bands, keep supporting the steelband, camboulay and traditional mas and let the carnival entrepreneurs handle their own stories, if the survive good on them and if they don't cest la vie

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby adnj » May 4th, 2020, 8:16 pm

Gladiator wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote:
Redress10 wrote:I don't think carnival should be banned but it should be regulated, taxed and shouldn't inconvenience people who are not involved in it. POS shouldn't shut down because of it. What's the opportunity costs for the lost productivity for the 6-8 weeks leading up to the event.

What about the societal cost due to this increasing carnival culture/mentality that is now in the country?

Carnival needs to take place in a way that doesn't shut down the country anymore.


It is taxed and extremely regulated. The opportunity cost can measured next year, but I can tell you first hand, other than the time lost at school, there is no detriment economically other than the cost of business we lose for ~1 week. But the gains from that one week are easily surpassed by almost 5 to 10x the earnings made from Carnival.


You really are lost in space yes, you ever see VAT on a fete ticket... Carnival is totally TAX free, other than VAT and Duty paid on imports and whatever other local trade, from the snow cone man to the big promoter and the performers that get paid $500k a night, they all pay no taxes on those earnings.

That's why fete promoters saying don't cancel Carnival... its their cash cow!!!

The real cost of Carnival cannot even be measured, all we know is the direct cost due to Govt subventions. All of the indirect forex costs for imports of alcohol, mas materials, printing materials, lighting and sound equipment, foreign meat and foodstuff, disposable wares, sanitation supplies, IT related costs, decorative materials, promotional cup and bandanna etc are not even quantified. But they all cost USD... that we have limited forex to spend on.

But you is d economiss... so I guess you think that they take a feed bag of blue notes and go Scotland and buy 10 containers of Johnny Black Whisky... that patrons fulling up a tall glass with and leaving half glass all over on the ground to throw way. Or the bandanna and flag that you take and wave around in the air for a couple hours then throw in the dust bin on your way out the gate.... HOW IS THAT SUSTAINABLE???
Carnival visitors historically average about TT$9,000 per visitor for a total of about TT$340M in external spending.

Activity studies of similar events show an economic activity multiplier of 3 to 4. Which means that an additional TT$700M to TT$1.0B is likely.

Trinidad has a GDP of about TT$165B. Carnival then represents less than 1% of total economic activity.

Though Carnival is culturally and economically integrated, it is not integral. It's seasonal nature also means that it is not very durable or possess much scalability.

Carnival is likely to be supplanted by some combination of other activities.
Last edited by adnj on May 4th, 2020, 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby pugboy » May 4th, 2020, 8:20 pm

apart from the big bands who paying taxes
the only other entity in that food chain under any microscope is the alcohol wholesaler

everybody else under the radar as they operating cash

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby eliteauto » May 4th, 2020, 8:30 pm

Dizzy28 wrote:What about overtime for the protective services for Carnival? How much does that cost annually?

Who pays it Dean, Jules or Ronnie?
Dohplaydat wrote:
Redress10 wrote:I don't think carnival should be banned but it should be regulated, taxed and shouldn't inconvenience people who are not involved in it. POS shouldn't shut down because of it. What's the opportunity costs for the lost productivity for the 6-8 weeks leading up to the event.

What about the societal cost due to this increasing carnival culture/mentality that is now in the country?

Carnival needs to take place in a way that doesn't shut down the country anymore.


It is taxed and extremely regulated. The opportunity cost can measured next year, but I can tell you first hand, other than the time lost at school, there is no detriment economically other than the cost of business we lose for ~1 week. But the gains from that one week are easily surpassed by almost 5 to 10x the earnings made from Carnival.



What overtime? Private events have extra duty the cost of which is borne by the promoter, the public events like kiddies carnival and MOn and Tues fall under regular duty. Officers are afforded carnival leave which are days off they apply for during the year

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Re: Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

Postby pugboy » May 4th, 2020, 8:35 pm

Ttps makes plenty money from them fetes esp when cops needed for road management like practically every fete in chaguaramas.

This is why promoters like party boats.

Them boys formed a promoters assoc to try and battle against the high prices they mandated to pay for police, fire security.

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