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T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

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Redman
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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby Redman » October 6th, 2020, 8:46 am

88sins wrote:
Redman wrote:
pugboy wrote:the np gas station news proving to be a good diversion from the real issues

btw did he say anything about caribbean airlines ?



The NP move means that they have protected the wholesalers while leaving the retail market with the responsibility to absorb costs that the whole supply chain has passed on to them.


So we have one importer...Paria
2 wholesalers...NP and Unipet.
Both protected, with fixed margins

The margin compression will occur at the retail point.

Wait & watch. This is the how cartels start. All owners will come together to form an "association", and set pricing to add on at least 50%. How much allyuh want to bet super going up to at least $7/l by March?


That makes little sense

As you know the price of fuel will be linked to global prices.
Retailers should come together and fix a margin.

De regulated markets are more competitive and efficient.

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby MG Man » October 6th, 2020, 8:50 am

*waiting to see who gonna buy up all the NP stations, then systematically run the independents out of business and buy them too

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby zoom rader » October 6th, 2020, 8:59 am

MG Man wrote:*waiting to see who gonna buy up all the NP stations, then systematically run the independents out of business and buy them too
Same people as the Gas station and Tesoro racket in the 1970s

Cha sue pork in yuh MC

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby assassin » October 6th, 2020, 9:04 am

Exactly
A few independent businessmen would try to compete in the short term but are likely to be driven out. Some independents may stay in business where they're in a community. But ppl from trincity not driving to tabaquite to save 10 per fill up

In the long term we'd have probably 2 big chains controlling the main locations and collusion would occur
MG Man wrote:*waiting to see who gonna buy up all the NP stations, then systematically run the independents out of business and buy them too

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby matr1x » October 6th, 2020, 9:20 am

We have not anti trust laws. So this is going to be fun. Collusion an setting the price is waiting for us with a baseball bat

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby Dizzy28 » October 6th, 2020, 9:30 am

matr1x wrote:We have not anti trust laws. So this is going to be fun. Collusion an setting the price is waiting for us with a baseball bat


The Fair Trading Act Chap 81:13 of 2006 would like to have a word with you

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby h1tach1 » October 6th, 2020, 9:58 am

Can't they implement a policy where you can only own a fixed number of stations to discourage the monopoly? More owners would be better for the public.

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby pugboy » October 6th, 2020, 10:06 am

it is already a lot of bobol to get license to open a station

Redman
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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby Redman » October 6th, 2020, 10:43 am

h1tach1 wrote:Can't they implement a policy where you can only own a fixed number of stations to discourage the monopoly? More owners would be better for the public.


The major component in the price of fuel at the pump-is international prices
The way it stands now GORTT is pushing the margin compression to the retail side.
Wholesalers (who have a fixed margin) have the ability to go out and get more customers.
Paria can sell into the international markets
This is really unfair as the retail outlet is fixed in terms of location, and volumes(volumes are causal to location)

So if I were a dealer I would form a group, integrate with a wholesaler/peddler and work to get pricing power through shared volume.

The Petroleum Dealers Association and the Pet Dealers Co Operative are ideally positioned to do this.


I would also push to get an import license.
But thats just me.

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby dogg » October 6th, 2020, 10:47 am

If the oil price goes up to ~$100, how much will fuel cost at the pump?

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby j.o.e » October 6th, 2020, 11:11 am

How many gas stations are OWNED by NP..... I’m thinking it can’t be much. Just a few of the larger ones.

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby Redman » October 6th, 2020, 12:04 pm

j.o.e wrote:How many gas stations are OWNED by NP..... I’m thinking it can’t be much. Just a few of the larger ones.


There are about 100 NP stations
Of which 35 are privately owned but have supply agreements with NP
65 are Company owned.

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby j.o.e » October 6th, 2020, 12:06 pm

Redman wrote:
j.o.e wrote:How many gas stations are OWNED by NP..... I’m thinking it can’t be much. Just a few of the larger ones.


There are about 100 NP stations
Of which 35 are privately owned but have supply agreements with NP
65 are Company owned.


Oh ok. Somehow I thought the numbers were flipped the other way.

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby death365 » October 6th, 2020, 12:14 pm

The major problem is that if the price of oil rises the price of fuel will too...


But when it drops.... Will it drop back down. Think bout KFC prices riase when chicken price goes up but never comes down.

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby Syberfraggle » October 6th, 2020, 12:35 pm

Imbert jus want to be blameless when fuel prices go up....he must be tired of the memes

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby matr1x » October 6th, 2020, 2:13 pm

Anyone who lives in the states will tell you property taxes are a fat scam

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby 88sins » October 6th, 2020, 3:27 pm

Redman wrote:
That makes little sense

As you know the price of fuel will be linked to global prices.
Retailers should come together and fix a margin.

De regulated markets are more competitive and efficient.

Like you eh sure where you living or what?
When international wheat prices went up due to shortages brought on by drought, damn near every product made with flour went up, from the flour on the grocery sheles to doubles to crix to bread. Now ask yourself, did the prices of those items come back down when the price of wheat went back down? Same for KFC & chicken, & pretty much anything that has fluctuating prices on the international market that can affect local prooduction.

Now, deregulation CAN cause industry players to be more competitive, but only if they are forced to operate on the basis of every man for himself, that way there is no collusion, no cartel, no puppet master pulling the strings, and everyone trying to undercut everyone else's prices and grab market share or get their product moved, all bringing benefit to the consumer. This move does NOTHING to ensure that negative things don't take place.

They would easier and faster all come together and set margins with the intent to fatten their pockets, than try to outdo each other and risk not making money hand over fist

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby pugboy » October 6th, 2020, 3:29 pm

that’s the ting, we are a micro market
regular market forces of supply and demand do not apply here so much

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby ProtonPowder » October 6th, 2020, 3:31 pm

matr1x wrote:Anyone who lives in the states will tell you property taxes are a fat scam

At least they would never directly fund public education in that district

that is a recipe for disaster

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby viedcht » October 6th, 2020, 3:49 pm

Trinis too darm greedy.
pugboy wrote:that’s the ting, we are a micro market
regular market forces of supply and demand do not apply here so much

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby matr1x » October 6th, 2020, 4:19 pm

Taxes have been mismanaged for decades so natural you want to scramble for what you can get. Its desperate....not greed

Redman
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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby Redman » October 6th, 2020, 4:36 pm

88sins wrote:
Redman wrote:
That makes little sense

As you know the price of fuel will be linked to global prices.
Retailers should come together and fix a margin.

De regulated markets are more competitive and efficient.

Like you eh sure where you living or what?
When international wheat prices went up due to shortages brought on by drought, damn near every product made with flour went up, from the flour on the grocery sheles to doubles to crix to bread. Now ask yourself, did the prices of those items come back down when the price of wheat went back down? Same for KFC & chicken, & pretty much anything that has fluctuating prices on the international market that can affect local prooduction.

Now, deregulation CAN cause industry players to be more competitive, but only if they are forced to operate on the basis of every man for himself, that way there is no collusion, no cartel, no puppet master pulling the strings, and everyone trying to undercut everyone else's prices and grab market share or get their product moved, all bringing benefit to the consumer. This move does NOTHING to ensure that negative things don't take place.

They would easier and faster all come together and set margins with the intent to fatten their pockets, than try to outdo each other and risk not making money hand over fist


Today fuel is bought by

A) Paria , who then mark up and sell to wholesalers.

B)Wholesalers who then mark up and sell to retail.

C)Retailers sell to public with a mark up.


Today margins are fixed on A,B, and C.
With Paria being fixed to specific Platts price quotes for Gulf of Mexico waterborne supply.....

What is being proposed is deregulation of C.

Therefore the retail outlets will be the only point of flexibility....and generally will NOT be able to gouge for too long....the ministry should be publishing the prices as well.

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby Redress10 » October 6th, 2020, 4:54 pm

We really spending 8 billion a year on education and people proud to say that they "fully dunce"?

We spending 8 billion a year on education and people still leaving school functionally illiterate?

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby toyolink » October 6th, 2020, 5:26 pm

The level of analysis of the budget which takes place every year just seems to be exercises in futility.
Every year is the same thing with different words and every year very little is executed, except for token stuff for elections.
I would much prefer to observe things being executed which make my ability to exist improve and low hanging items like better roads, proper drains, less litter, a more customer oriented public services.
The life of the ordinary citizens seems to based on all kinds of recitals in the annual budget which essentially make promises for an undefined tomorrow most of which no one understands or could figure out.

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88sins
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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby 88sins » October 6th, 2020, 7:42 pm

@toyolink
You ever heard the phrase "a promise is a comfort to a fool"

These people offering trinis endless comfort.

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby PariaMan » October 6th, 2020, 7:44 pm

Bait and switch

We were told that 2 offset the raise in fuel hybrids will have reduced taxes now they removed the concessions

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby Numb3r4 » October 6th, 2020, 11:20 pm

Please don't bring up our education system and its failings.

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby screwbash » October 7th, 2020, 6:33 am

guyana have a bunch of shell gas stations. they probably done eyeing trinidad so it might happen soon.

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby maj. tom » October 7th, 2020, 10:01 am

‘VAT on apples and grapes wrong’

The full 12.5 per cent value added tax (VAT) on a range of luxury foods like lobster, escargot and strawberries from January 1, 2021 as announced in the budget on Monday will encourage people to eat more local produce.

But supermarket owners are questioning what items are in the “wide range of imported luxury” foods and why apples and grapes fall into this category as outlined by Finance Minister Colm Imbert in his 2021 budget.

Supermarket Association president Rajiv Diptee yesterday commended the minister on the fiscal package he presented to Parliament.

He said there were several good measures that will help people, especially in Trinidad and Tobago’s current “austere” economy.

These include increasing the personal income tax exemption limit among other provisions which meant “our customers will have more income,” Diptee told the Express in a phone interview.

But others factors—such as the expected increase in the cost of diesel that comes with the removal of the fuel subsidy—will also drive transportation costs upward and force price increases for goods.

Full VAT on imported food is a signal to consume more local goods, Diptee suggested.

But it means that these goods—not just lobsters and smoked salmon but apples and grapes—would also rise in price at the supermarket counter.

“If there are taxes levied on these items, they will be more expensive,” Diptee said, adding that he did not feel that customers would be deprived of choice but will have to pay more from next year.

He questioned why apples and grapes could be on the list when there were other much more expensive items that could be targeted.

He said his association will wait to see what luxury foods appear on the final published list.

‘Formula for VAT needs to change’

Former president of the Supermarket Association, Balliram Maharaj, suggested there were other items that VAT should be removed from.

He told the Express: “I am a little disappointed that Minister Imbert said items such as lobster and all these sorts of things need VAT. Champagne already has VAT. He has to be very careful with the words he says. There is no need to add VAT to fresh apples and grapes either. They are going to change the whole formula on VAT. This is not how it’s done. If you want to bring in income and put heavier taxes on luxury items you shouldn’t use VAT. VAT is a penalty for lower and middle-income persons. They will now have no chance to claim it back. It is wrong. They should not do it.”

His suggestion was that Government look into adding a surcharge on these items, not VAT.

“Also, there are items in groups, such as salt, white sugar, peas and beans that they should remove the VAT from. They should remove the VAT on these basic items that people use. And you can use surcharge on items like lobster. To change the formula on VAT, you will have to change the law to suit that,” he said.
https://trinidadexpress.com/news/local/ ... cc402.html

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Re: T&T Budget 2020 is on October 5th

Postby Redress10 » October 7th, 2020, 10:31 am

Redress10 wrote:
maj. tom wrote:So why don't they improve it then? What they waiting on to improve the bus service? It's been (2020 - 1962) years. What they waiting on?


What is the first thing they buy when they get into parliament or ministry? Ent is a tax free luxury vehicle? Why fix something that you wouldn't have to use?



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