Increased boost on Mitsubishi 4D56

[cutthroatInt]

see attached pics bout the air intake piping to turbo i was talkin bout.

Also, can you confirm if this is the same engin in ur pajero?

[cutthroatInt]

I bought boost gauge, oil catch can, boost controller today.

installed oil catch can and boost gauge.

Im gettin 8psi max right now.
what is the stock boost setting on a 4d56T (assuming pajero/L300 engine)

i want to set back my OEM wastegate to where it should be.. before i install the controller and start diggin up.

Accord man, u mentioned that you have a modified catch can to install? what is modified bout it and why? is it something specific for diesel engines?

from tappet cover, i run hose to can.. and i did not run a return hose back to intake... i put a small air breather filter. but alot of air is venting tru that small filter now and making one set ah noise... and sort of fumzing up the place. when the engine shuts off i get about 3-5 sec hissing sound through the filter. so from a previous post in another thread, backpressure seems to be ok on the engine.

i guess i just hav to monitor oil accumulation in the can.

[CD4Accord]

Well backpressure is never really a factor so ignore anything about that...

There is no sense in connecting a catch can if you do not run it back to the intake/manifold..
The sense in having a catch can is so you can leave your EGR system in the stock flow (ie. do not blank or disconnect it)..

My modification is that I find most catch cans do not allow for much oil condensation because the intake and exhaust nipples from the can are too near to eachother without any internal baffling..
What I did with mine was glue a synthetic steel wool scrubbing pad right in the middle of the catch can so that whatever oil laden vapour gets in there either has to either go through or under the steel wool pad.. This leads to much more oil condensation.. I stuck the pad in there using loctite superglue.. Average krazy glue etc I dont think will do the job..
Also, my catch can you can open and remove both ends so it made working easier..


Finally, before you get to the boost controller etc make sure to clean out your intercooler.. You will be amazed how much gunk gets in there (the catch can should help from here on)..

I need to go back and do some more research about stock boost but 8 or 9 psi sounds about right to me..

Concerning my pajero, lent it to my cousin for a few days so I cant measure for you til later in the week..

Please give me some more info on the boost controller install though seeing as I havent done mine yet..

[cutthroatInt]

well i still dont have an intercooler. will see to install a cooler before in install the controller

i prob made a mistake in buyin a cheap boost gauge.. lol...

if opportunity arrises i;ll compare the boost to another brand.

lookin for an oil pressure gauge.. will take a manual gauge... (cheaper)

[cutthroatInt]

and a flat, dash mounted, 3 gauge pod... (2" gauges)

[CD4Accord]

Well I spent about 60 US each on my gauges.. They are not super expensive but definitely were not cheap..
Look up the brand glowshift..

Anyway, while i agree mechanical oil pressure gauges can be cheaper and more accurate sometimes, I don't like the idea of running oil lines into my cabin.. Hence why I went with electronic gauges..
I also have an exhaust gas temperature, digital boost and water temperature gauge..

Concerning the intercooler, it is a MUST if you want the turbo to really show true gains.. I actually find the stock intercooler a bit small if you are increasing boost, but see what you can find.. It is usually mounted on top the engine just to the right if facing the vehicle..

[cutthroatInt]

wen u can take some measurements, i;ll like to kno the dimensions of the stock intercooler.

so i;ll better decide wot size to choose.

[droppa]

fellas does the 4D56T have any overheating issues, a padna of mine have one and he says the guage get to half quickly and stays there, and his thermostat is out, but my surf does the same, i tell him dats the operating temperature, we also re-oild the fan as it was a bit free, but there was no significant change in the temperature.....

and yeah wat is the stock boost for the 4D?

[cutthroatInt]

droppa, on the non tubo engine with the thermostat out, the temp gauge used to be at quarter majority of the time.

with the turbo engine, thermostat out, without driving hard, my temp will remain at approx quarter. but once i start driving hard (>70 mph) temp will rise. and if its like midday drivin, it can go up to 3/4. and my fan was reoiled and rad cleaned.

but as soon as i slow down, temp will drop very rapidly.

which brings me back to my uncertainty if i need a bigger rad.
or to slap on two electric fans and remove the clutch fan.


after hard driving, does ur padna loose water in the radiator? Either it goes to over flow bottle or simply vanishes? lol

[CD4Accord]

No problem, as I said in a few days I'll be able to measure everything for you...

The stock intercooler shouldnt be too hard to get in the bamboo if you willing to look though..

[speedaholic]

does your radiator have a shroud cuthroat?

[cutthroatInt]

^ shroud off at the moment. but i never had a shroud when first got the van wit the NA engine and the temp used to be low.

initially only got the shroud to help in keepin condensor cool. as AC wud start blowing hot after an hr or so.

[speedaholic]

yea same here.. i installed the shroud to help with the a/c it also help with high speed runs IMO...

[cutthroatInt]

Good morning fellas!!!.. and what a good morning it has been!

just an update,

initially when i installed the boost gauge i could swear i was getting 8 psi.

for the last couple days the max i was getting was 6psi.. and it takes a very very long time to reach that.
so bright and early this morning after suspicion that my last mechanic did interfere with his father head and adjusted my waste gate, i went ahead and adjusted the rod a couple threads up to where i think i saw the original threads marked.
i also used an air compressor and pumped some air into the actuator to make sure it was activating and it was.
I drained my oil catch can which collected bout half a table spoon of oil.
(cheap thing no good for real yes, the inlet and outlet nipples of this can is attached to the can via an allen bolt and some sealant. i have to re seal this as its leakin at this point.)

it seems as tho my wastegate actuator on the 4d56 was adjusted wayyy to low.
At idle after a few mins of warm up, i revved the engine and the needle happily climed to 4-5 psi..
it never did that before...

and frankly i thought it was strange as i kno gasoline turbo engines do not build boost at idle and in neutral.. atleast one that i witnessed personally.

so i packed up all my tools and locked up garage and went for my test drive, sando tech flyover to claxton bay flyover.

engine builts boost almost instantly when driving.
i still cannot tell rpm as i havnt gotten my tacho to hook up yet. (need help on this)

the adjustment i made on the actuator rod sent boost straight up to 9psi on throttle ... and i can get that on all 5 gears.

on the highway it holds that pressure without dropping off... so right now its set at 9psi.

i really want to know what is the stock boost setting on an original pajero/l200 set up to ensure im not "overboosting" right now.

i;ll hav to give it an engine wash and monitor things now cos im seeing oil all over the place.. im hoping its the leakin oil catch can throwing oil all over.

if there is safe room to raise more boost i think i;ll just adjust the wastegate some more and not install the boost controller.. atleast not untill i do install the intercooler.

accord man, for the intercooled engine in the pajero, i tink you should adjust that first before the controller as well... unless assuming the max you'll get off the wategate adjustment is 10psi after which u will not be able to get any more boost with a stock waste gate.

i will monitor things for a week or so.. i do a lot of mileage so will be able to quickly ascertain performance.. fuel mileage etc then consider turning it up a few notches if atall.

oh, forgot to mention, smoking was reduced considerable... on throttle where i wud normally look in my side mirror to see if i dusting for mosquitoe, there was no smoke.

i havnt tinkered wit the fuel pump..
atleast for now it seems like all it needed was more air flow to mix wit the diesel.

totally different driving feel im getting now.. van is very lively and responsive...

think i need to change pads from OHK to sumting different... im mashing more brakes now lol
and im getting brake fade.. and a slight spongy feel.

fluid tops, lines tops, brakes master cylinder kit changed recently, rear shoes are OHK also and in good condition and tension.

any recommendations?

only down side, my engine temp went up a tad bit faster. but i kno it has to do with the increased load its getting and the immensely hott midday sun!

so now back on the agenda, consideration of upgraded radiator as well or twin electric fans which im leaning towards for some reason.

[cutthroatInt]

kinda rethinking what i just said bout the boost controller,,,
can a manual boost controller raise the psi entering the engine beyond the wastgate settings?

[speedaholic]

^^ u like yuh self now eh!

[cutthroatInt]

^^^ lol...

boy a brethren show me a lil scene this evening..
the hose i got wit the boost gauge is like them fish aquarium hose... and can expand with boost.. so the 9 psi i reading cud possible be more... steupes..


fuss ting monday is to get some harder walled hoses and change it out and reduce boost if needed yes..

[madcoolieboy]

stock boost is 8-10 psi on the 4d56t......remember you cannot cross 15psi with a stock manifold eh guys......relief valve opens. unless yuh play mad an take out the valve and blank the hole with a huge bolt.. btw ah have a 4d56t block put down(no crank) just block,sump,pistons,rods if anybody want one.

all 4d56's have overheating and thermostat issues. i advise u remove your thermostat.

[speedaholic]

can u post some pics of the parts?? i may want the sump.. and pistons...

[CD4Accord]

madcoolie.. I beg to differ about the thermostat and overheating.. Has never happened, not even once to my 4d56t... Only time I ever had any overheating issue was cause a hose clamp came loose and I was losing coolant fast... Other than that good to go..

To curthroat.. I was in tobago for a while so I havent been able to reply (or do work on the paj) for the past few days...
Let me see if I can reply to everything you posted...

First, I stick to saying that about 8psi is stock boost on these engines.. Going up to 9 or 10 shouldnt too much of an issue once you are not running lean... If I were you I would adjust the fuel flow to the point where it just begins to smoke and leave it around there... Definitely safer that way because you don't want your combustion/cylinder temperatures climbing too high..

Concerning the cheap catch can, you call it right.. Cheap ting no good generally and you doing to have to secure/modify/weld your catch can to make sure it does its job properly...
About the oil leak though, the amount of oil you claim to be seeing definitely will not be from the catch can... I would be more likely to suspect the crankshaft seals.. The hardest to work on and the most likely to leak on these engines (from my experience)..

About the boost controller... As far as I know it can only boost as high as the wastegate it set.. So what I would do in that case is open the wastegate to about 11 or 12 psi and adjust boost from the controller itself.. Start around 8 and probably stop somewhere around 11...
I am planning to get my exhaust gas temperature (pyrometer) installed first though so I can make sure I am not running to lean and putting my engine in mortal danger..


Finally, brakes...... I keep forgetting that you driving a L200 and not a paj, but the drums in the back is a major limitation and there is nothing much you can do to improve stopping from them.. Your best bet is to see if you can find the pads/shoes in mintex.. It is the best brand available locally for these vehicles and the prices not too steep I don't find.. Maybe around 200 tt each? Call ASL in port-of-spain to see if they have stock.. If not, I know Ramai's on PAP road in marabella has them and some other places too..

For your brake fluid... I can suggest using Castrol GT-LMA.. I did a flush with it in my paj about 2 and a half years ago and the thing still looks like its right out of the bottle..
I have a pack of pheonix systems Brakestrip brake fluid testers and I check the fluid every 6 months or so... The fluid in the pajero shows less than 20ppm copper contamination with 200ppm being what is required to change the fluid.. VERY impressed by this fluid at the price of about ~$35tt per 330ml bottle.. Buy two for the flush..

For your final condiserations... I don't think the cooling system in the vehicle warrants any upgrade.. I have always found the belt connected fan to be sufficient but my electrician recently changed the electric A/C fan which is infront the radiator to a more powerful one.. I would love to give you details on brand/price etc but I was out the country when that work was done..
The radiator... Stick with what you have until you have a clear problem with it...
Just make sure your coolant is nice and fresh and do about a 35% coolant (concentrate) to 65% water mix..

[cutthroatInt]

^^^ points noted..

changed the boost gauge hose to something harder..
gauge read about 10 psi... was 9psi with the soft hose.

i had extra time this evening and installed the boost controller.
this ting is sheit!.... i hope urs do not spike.
when i installed it, i turned it down to 0... like completely turned off..

and on the highway it is spiking to 15 psi.. den will drop off to 12 or so.. den settle around 9-10psi..

will take that off before 4d56 goes boom~

but i was told that all those manual boost controllers spike like that..

[CD4Accord]

Well my friend, what brand manual boost controller did you buy? If its a no-name special from the bamboo or any of those other parts jokers around you probably got ripped off and will never really find it working well..

I on the other hand decided to fork out the cash and bought a Hallman Pro MBC for about $80 US..
It is supposed to be one of, if not the best MBC on the market based on reviews...
If people are willing to run it on their evo and gtr engines etc, I trust it for my paj..
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1601905
People seem to like them quite a bit...

[cutthroatInt]

^^ controller is no name brand

i accept the fact i buy sheit. its goin to be removed.

this morning i adjusted the pump slightly as u recommended.. but on idle im not seeing smoke... the pump/engine just seems to rev a slight bit higher.
but when revving in neutral i will get a puff of smoke till the boost kicks in whence it will burn clean.
on the highway will only get some smoke if the engine is gettin load in too high a gear.
I was contemplating adjusting some more, but didnt like how high the engine started "revving".

the injector pump on this engine is different from the NA engine i have on the ground.
the screw which i turned bout 270 degrees is the only adjustable screw on the pump.
its located behind the pump (facing firewall) where the 4 injector fuel pipes run out to the head.
just want confirmation the correct adjustment was made.
the engine manual i have on soft copy doest show neting bout the injector pump.

bout the brakes, will look at getting the mintex pads u recommended.
but i tink i need to heat wrap my brakes reservoir, or turbo and exhaust down pipe.
its so close to the brake and clutch reservior.

wit my old engine (NA), i had COMPLETE faith in my brakes, and could stop on a dime, whenever i wanted. so i guess its possible that the heat cud be affecting the fluid.

[cutthroatInt]

i keep forgetting to take pics.. will do in a timing.

[CD4Accord]

Cutthroat... It is highly unlikely that the heat is affecting your brake fluid... At least I have never heard of underhood temperatures affecting it...

That said, if you are planning to wrap the reservoir, I have some heat reflecting wrap.. A small piece should more than cover that.. The catch of course being that you wouldnt be able to see the level without opening the reservoir which is something I try to avoid as it allows more water contamination than just leaving it shut..
Using a DOT 4 fluid instead of DOT3 will raise the boiling point of the fluid though and this should offer some more peace of mind when you talking about brake fade etc..

Those no-name boost controllers usually go for under 10 US on ebay so I assume its the same kind that you got... I really eager to get my project going on the pajero but time has been against me, I been so busy for the past month or so that I havent even found time to get the exhaust leak checked out.. Thats step 1 cause with a leaking exhaust its likely that my boost isn't going up to where it should...

Let me ask you, how hard was it so wire/rout your cables for the gauges into the cabin? I never tried installing them before so this could be an adventure for me.. 2 68mm gauges.. One of which has 3 sensor wires going to it (water temp, boost and exhaust gas temp)..

Im glad we keep passing info back and forth.. I am more than happy to help wherever I can..

Out of curiousity, have you ever heard of people doing a rear drum to disc conversion on L200's?
I expect that the rear suspension from the pajero should fit but this is just a hunch.....
Overall probably not worth the cost and trouble though, especially considering how light the back of a pickup truck is... All the weight transfers to the front anyway on hard stops

[speedaholic]

what about slotting and drilling the rotors? ive seen ppl do this with a significant increase in stopping power.. I'm thinking about it...

[CD4Accord]

I am 100% against aftermarket slotting and drilling of rotors... If the rotor was not CAST with the slots or holes then I do not trust my life and safety to them..
Overall, I am actually against the use of drilled rotors.. In most cases they offer very little benefit and only increase the risk of your rotor cracking.. The theory is that it helps disperse heat and gasses better, but on a l200/pajero you are actually better off with a solid rotor which offers a larger contact area for the pad..

Concerning slotted rotors, I run brembo slotted rotors all around on my accord, but they came from the brembo factory slotted, definitely not something that was done aftermarket...

Reality is, the best you can do with the brakes is get the mintex pads, use a good fluid (castrol GT-LMA) and talk to people and get info about the possible rear disc swap (but I don't think its worth the $$)..

What you can do however is machine your rotors IF and ONLY IF you have issues with them wearing unevenly or giving you wheel shake when stopping at speed.. If not, then leave them as is..

In the end, the vehicle doesn't have ABS so even if you were to go to an ultra grippy pad such as EBC etc, you would just be more likely to lock the brakes than to actually stop..

[drunk24-7]

As for the rear conversion from drum to disc should be interesting... maybe i'll peep into that. I've installed Surf and Prado Diff in a few vehicles, so i see no problem in this. BUT IS IT WORTH THE TROUBLE? I know the outer oil seals from the K14 diff are the same as the H100. I only buy original hyundai parts!!! Maybe we can use the H00 diff as a prototype before we start tinkering.

As for higher boost, how much boost can the turbo itself handle before it starts to disintegrate whilst in operation? The oil cooled units can't take much abuse....

I replaced my oil cooled turbo with a water cooled unit out of a K74T, and the performance was astounding. (was also rebuilt!)

At about 10 psi, the vehicle runs notably warmer, about 165 degrees Fahrenheit, the usual operating range about 150 deg F, (referenced from Dex's (L200) K34). But i installed a 4 core cross flow radiator from a Mazda 3 ton Titan, and completed with a shroud of a 280C. The fuel pump was also adjusted to compensate for the extra boost. However, under the bonnet seems to be a warmer than usual, Clutch cylinder seems hungry for seal kits, so i'm about to install one of those bonnet vents found on the K74T models.

Cutthroat.. as for the idea with replacing the clutch fan with the electric units... I used both 12 inch DERALE fans i have for the JZ project, and the gauge kept climbing to an uncomfortable level whilst under a fair amount of spirited driving AT NIGHT...much less for Day driving with AC on. BUT THE GAIN IN POWER WAS AMAZING!!!

[CD4Accord]

As for the rear conversion from drum to disc should be interesting... maybe i'll peep into that. I've installed Surf and Prado Diff in a few vehicles, so i see no problem in this. BUT IS IT WORTH THE TROUBLE? I know the outer oil seals from the K14 diff are the same as the H100. I only buy original hyundai parts!!! Maybe we can use the H00 diff as a prototype before we start tinkering.

If you can manage to get some more info on this let us know.. Should be an interesting idea.. Thankfully the GLS model pajeros imported here came rear disc... Shame they didn't come with ABS though

As for higher boost, how much boost can the turbo itself handle before it starts to disintegrate whilst in operation? The oil cooled units can't take much abuse....
I replaced my oil cooled turbo with a water cooled unit out of a K74T, and the performance was astounding. (was also rebuilt!)

I am actually under the impression that these turbos are internally wastegated to 15psi, just incase things get of control.. Therefore helping to avoid ridiculous overboosting... I obviously have never had to rely on that failsafe but I read that on one of the pahjero forums..
Concerning the K74T turbo what would be the price of one?

The fuel pump was also adjusted to compensate for the extra boost. However, under the bonnet seems to be a warmer than usual, Clutch cylinder seems hungry for seal kits, so i'm about to install one of those bonnet vents found on the K74T models.

I have also been told that to install one of those bonnet vents you have to change the entire bonnet/hood... I know thats for sure with the pajero and I assume it to be the same with the l200? If you can find a way around it let me know cause it will definitely help with airflow and the intercooler..

Cutthroat.. as for the idea with replacing the clutch fan with the electric units... I used both 12 inch DERALE fans i have for the JZ project, and the gauge kept climbing to an uncomfortable level whilst under a fair amount of spirited driving AT NIGHT...much less for Day driving with AC on. BUT THE GAIN IN POWER WAS AMAZING!!!

I really like the clutch fan even though it drains a bit of the engine power.. With that, I KNOW that its working and doing its job.. The most I might do is consider adding an electric fan or putting a higher powered electric fan in-front of the radiator instead

[drunk24-7]

Rear disc brakes on the K14 would seem a bit overkill. Whilst one can never have too much braking power, having the rear brakes of an unbalanced vehicle lock up seems a bit unnerving, as the vehicle does not skid forward but more tends to want to skid of the road. (Prado diff in Charmant experience). K14=NO ABS!!

As for the pricing of the K74 turbo, maybe your turbo can be rebuilt using the internals (Cartridge) of the K74T as well. Will need to inspect before any concrete decision can be made. But the turbo can be obtained for about 1500TT and some negotiations skills.

My van does not have the intercooler, so vent placement will not be necessary. However, in the K74, the vent lies somewhat in the center of the bonnet whereas I'm intending to install mine directly in front of the driver, hopefully forcing colder air into the area surrounding the clutch cylinder, turbo and environs.

Instead of the electric fan in front the radiator, how about adding a bit more oil to the clutch fan? The viscosity of the oil in the clutch fan tends to vary with temperature hence its mode of operation. The extra electric fan would just prevent the oil from reaching its temperature required to be a bit more viscous and provide more airflow, and so the temperature would remain unchanged.