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Drag & Wind(ing) #5, 11.12.11 ....*Pics on Pg 7*....

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby wagonrunner » December 12th, 2011, 6:37 pm

Chris, distance / speed = times
Speed (performance) being consistent, if the course is different the time will be different.
Not all cars perform the same in a straight line, nor through a corner. Hence testing and classing each day makes sense.

Then there's also how do you class first timers? What about cars whose setups are slightly different?
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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby chris1388 » December 12th, 2011, 6:52 pm

I disagree because the course is not really changing....we've had 5 events all using the same course give or take a couple of feet. If the course changes completely then I take your point but I don't think thats going to happen since autosport is limited by the size of the car park and they have made there name using the dual car arrangement further limiting track design....this is not dex where its one car. So i don't see the course being altered much.

In order for this classification system to work and for everyone to have a fair chance whilst using this course arrangement, we need more classes with narrower brackets. As i said we've done the event 5 times you have an idea of the times for THIS course arrangement....create classes two seconds in width from the slowest right up to the fastest time we've ever had and even create another class thats above the fastest time we've had. Then let everyone do atleast 3-4 runs each and place cars by their FASTEST time and give the drivers the option to go up or down in class.

This way when you tell me according to my fastest time for the day....i'm in GT2 on the day for example...i can quickly refer to the classing system and know the bracket limit for that class...no problems. If I feel i want to go up, the officials should let me and I would take responsibility if i get blows all day......if i wanted to go down in class they should also let me....then if i consistently break the bracket I have to take responsibility again and accept losing all day in that slower bracket. Simple as that!

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby X2 » December 12th, 2011, 7:11 pm

Chris... don't take minor changes to the course for granted. NONE of the last 4 events I've driven have been the same. Yes... the main idea of the course remains the same but even extending or reducing the straights or slightly modifying the directional changes can easily cost you upwards of a second or more. Wagonrunner put it right... you need to class on the same day. UNLESS you can duplicate the course exactly from one event to another... but the exact same course everytime ? where's the fun in that ?

As an example... although Porn Star ran a 50 second run in practice (on his FIRST run)... one of the events past had fastest time of the day in the 49's... you know he could have probably knocked another second or more off as the day progressed... 49's ? 48's ? We'll never know !

How about this...

Slowest CLEAN run of the practice runs can be the lower limit of GT1 and fastest practice run of the day can define the upper limit of the top class. All classes in between can be divided equally between those times (and CLEARLY announced to all drivers + spectators)

OR

Assign a 'pace car', something stock, nothing beastly... have a marshall or similar do 1 lap on each lane (north and south) and average the time as a median for GT1's classification. Higher classes will be spread out based on practice times recorded for the day.

At the end of the day... people are complaining that this should not be based on bracket racing.... but if it's not... then what ? Fastest times or head to head winners only ? If so... many of the winners of the past 5 events may be put out into the cold....

Either way... I would like to vote for the next event to be a test and tune followed by both random and grudge matches later in the day.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby chris1388 » December 12th, 2011, 7:33 pm

You guys not really understanding what I saying...i am not taking minor changes for granted. At every event aren't we all running the course that is put down on THAT day??? So if we all run that same course be it different by a little or not from the last event and should everyones times vary from the last event..... so what???

You just get put into the next best class as per the classification system...it dont matter the name of the class be it 1,2 or 3 etc....you would be placed in a FAIR bracket for THAT DAY. If you break it ur lose.....if u want to move up go ahead...just take your lix if you happen to get in the next class.

There are too many variables in this event and that is why the organizers are having a hard time...they need to standardize some stuff

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby X2 » December 12th, 2011, 7:50 pm

Whoa... take a breath !

I think we were referring to your suggestion here:

chris1388 wrote:...we have done this a few times now....by now we know the limits of times competitors do on the course i.e the slowest times and the fastest times. You all need to come up with the classes BEFORE hand and publish this so that it is known by all the particular bracket limit of that class. This way we the competitors will know for example.....GT2 is from 58-60seconds....so on the day now when you hear you in GT2 we know what the limit is for that class already so that we know how close our qualifying time was to potentially breaking the bracket.



^^ They can't do what you said above... ie... posting classes before the actual day...because...


chris1388 wrote:At every event aren't we all running the course that is put down on THAT day??? So if we all run that same course be it different by a little or not from the last event and should everyones times vary from the last event..... so what???


Theorhetically... all of the participants of the previous events should be getting FASTER each event because of familiarity with the basic course layout (assuming it remains the same)

There are not too many variables.... there are two main ones.... car and driver. The organizers are trying to minimize the car variable by using the times.... it's the inconsistency of the drivers that remains the key variable. Not saying its perfect eh, I've been burned by the rules just as others have... but you can't expect perfection after just 5 events. Even CARS modifies the rules to solodex from time to time and dex has been going on for years.

These discussions I'm sure will help formulate a more stable platform for D&W rules.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby chris1388 » December 12th, 2011, 7:58 pm

Tell me why then we can't look at the competition times from all the events and get some sort of time range....slowest to fastest and just make classes before hand?

Example

class 1 - 65 seconds upward
class 2 - 63 to 64.99
class 3 - 61 to 62.99
class 4 - 59 to 60.99

and so on and on and keep adding classes if need be? This way you don't assign a man a class and say right...you are in class 2 forever and ever....if that same man come next event and from familiarity as you rightly say gets better....then on that day of competition we just put him in the next fastest class....simple as that.

The only limitation with this method is that we can't really have a championship with points and stuff like solodex since you might be in one class for one event and then you got better and went to another class the next event.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Computerman » December 12th, 2011, 8:00 pm

chris1388 wrote:You guys not really understanding what I saying...

There are too many variables in this event and that is why the organizers are having a hard time...they need to standardize some stuff

What started as "An opportunity to have some fun," has quickly grown into a "Genuine Autosporting Activity!" 5 events for 2011, each one better than the previous! But still, controversy surrounding the classification system. It seems that we are not classifying the cars, but the drivers. As one car can be in two different classes driven by three different persons! Given that this "Carpark Circuit" has evolved to become fiercely competative I agree with chris1388 in stating that "they need to standardize some stuff!" I (and I'm sure many others) would gladly attend a meeting to discuss (and contribute towards) the development of this very enjoyable and entertaining motorsport.

X2 wrote:There are not too many variables.... there are two main ones.... car and driver. The organizers are trying to minimize the car variable by using the times.... it's the inconsistency of the drivers that remains the key variable. Not saying its perfect eh, I've been burned by the rules just as others have... but you can't expect perfection after just 5 events. Even CARS modifies the rules to solodex from time to time and dex has been going on for years.

These discussions I'm sure will help formulate a more stable platform for D&W rules.

^^What X2 said!

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby X2 » December 12th, 2011, 8:06 pm

Likely people will eventually get a bit bored with the same layout over and over. So you gotta also consider the course MIGHT change in the future.... if that happens we are back to square one.

I won't lie... it is prolly hard as hell to sort out an acceptable list of rules with something like this as there is not a lot of history to compare to... maybe the Race of Champions... but even that is different !

I'm sure the organisers will be reading thru the comments listed in this thread to help the next event come off even better. Just keep driving hard meng !

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby vtmiller11 » December 12th, 2011, 8:12 pm

Wow lots of analysis going on here and it's commendable that so much thought is going into it. However, until we get an actual race track it matters not to me (probably because I'm not one of the better drivers and I'm too inconsistent).

Rawle could make the course so tight that the car could barely fit or wide enough to allow you to go straight sideways..... I dey and very merry just being dey and running wherever they put me.

My only preparation for the day is to make sure my cooler is packed, oh and sometimes I do check my tyre pressure.

So until we have that pie in the sky track, I'm not putting too much pressure on the organisers. Just my 2cents

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Computerman » December 12th, 2011, 8:14 pm

chris1388 wrote:Tell me why then we can't look at the competition times from all the events and get some sort of time range....slowest to fastest and just make classes before hand?

Example

class 1 - 65 seconds upward
class 2 - 63 to 64.99
class 3 - 61 to 62.99
class 4 - 59 to 60.99

and so on and on and keep adding classes if need be?
That is not at all practical, from both an organisational and marketing standpoint. Five or Six classes for the most, at this point! If we get a permanent facility where the layout can be standardized and we can host an event over two (or more) days then we may consider somthing similar to this suggestion.

X2 wrote:Likely people will eventually get a bit bored with the same layout over and over. So you gotta also consider the course MIGHT change in the future.... if that happens we are back to square one.

I won't lie... it is prolly hard as hell to sort out an acceptable list of rules with something like this as there is not a lot of history to compare to... maybe the Race of Champions... but even that is different !

I'm sure the organisers will be reading thru the comments listed in this thread to help the next event come off even better. Just keep driving hard meng !
ARC still planning to pave that surface in 2012?!

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby professor » December 12th, 2011, 8:16 pm

Ronnie and I decided not to run and to give the EVOs' a day for themselves, and what happened ? They blew it, literally.

Sorry to hear about the problems guys, Motor Racing is a beyotch. Heard it was still a good day though.

I imagine these cars would be even faster next year.
Season Greetings to all. Take care.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby AutoSport » December 12th, 2011, 10:30 pm

Ok, so having sat back and taken in the sparring that has been going on, I have to admit that what was clearly stated to the competitors at the meeting at 1;00pm, was NOT adhered to by the officials in the control tent. Apologies for that from the start. And also for the errors that WERE made on the day.

I really appreciate the many and varied suggestions, all intended and made to have as fair a competition as possible.

Funny, but I do agree with Chris, because it was actually what was intended but MURPHY stormed the party. The major flaw occurred after the 1:00pm testing, when competitors were Not told the Class they should have been running in, and this being discovered later on, we had to step in and try to regroup from where we were at the time.

For those with the positive and constructive comments, and criticism I say thanks. For the one talking about making money, go check to find out what others paid just to get through the gate to compete elsewhere, and then come back and show the real comparisons, And to the one who talk about the freshwater yankee… here we have gotten a knowledgable Trini, residing away, invited to bring a different outlook and that is your best shot.

As I have said to many, I/we have absolutely no interest in favouring one competitor over the other or in deliberately hindering a competitor in his/her attempt to enjoy a day of racing.

We will work with all parties to eventually achieve the best mix and really develop this to its highest potential.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby roadracer7 » December 12th, 2011, 11:23 pm

AutoSport wrote:Ok, so having sat back and taken in the sparring that has been going on, I have to admit that what was clearly stated to the competitors at the meeting at 1;00pm, was NOT adhered to by the officials in the control tent. Apologies for that from the start. And also for the errors that WERE made on the day.

I really appreciate the many and varied suggestions, all intended and made to have as fair a competition as possible.

Funny, but I do agree with Chris, because it was actually what was intended but MURPHY stormed the party. The major flaw occurred after the 1:00pm testing, when competitors were Not told the Class they should have been running in, and this being discovered later on, we had to step in and try to regroup from where we were at the time.

For those with the positive and constructive comments, and criticism I say thanks. For the one talking about making money, go check to find out what others paid just to get through the gate to compete elsewhere, and then come back and show the real comparisons, And to the one who talk about the freshwater yankee… here we have gotten a knowledgable Trini, residing away, invited to bring a different outlook and that is your best shot.

As I have said to many, I/we have absolutely no interest in favouring one competitor over the other or in deliberately hindering a competitor in his/her attempt to enjoy a day of racing.

We will work with all parties to eventually achieve the best mix and really develop this to its highest potential.

thanks for putting me streight.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby southside crew » December 12th, 2011, 11:32 pm

I'm happy for the GT1-5 class by cars.. not by times.. the event in AUG ( I think the valvoline sponsored) event was by far the best for me!!

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Team Loco » December 13th, 2011, 12:47 am

Good constructive criticism. If its one thing we have real mature competitors. A lot of sportsmanship at the events also.
With this, this can only get better.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby ingalook » December 13th, 2011, 1:57 am

@AutoSport

I'm sorry about that comment, I was a little pissed when I wrote that rant... I hope you understand

I really thought that was just another random trini throwing on a fake accent to get some laughs, that's how it sounded to me... and to 95% of the spectators there as well... I literally heard a group of spectators "steups" as soon as that man came on the mic.

But ignore the "freshwater yankee" comment if you can and see that we are just asking for a little more useful info from the commentators... though honestly we did get some good info on the cars themselves

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Mr. Fixables » December 13th, 2011, 2:10 am

I do understand that the rulebook is a moving target at this point, and will continue to improve as we go along, but I would like to know the rules before hand so that we can "build" for a certain class. Otherwise it will be a guessing game of sorts.

Kirk

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby MG Man » December 13th, 2011, 8:15 am

I am pissed because I wasn't there :(
Mr. Autosport, as always, your supporters and friends by far outweigh your detractors...we all look forward to a great 2012 season
*kicks car*

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby AutoSport » December 13th, 2011, 8:57 am

MG Man wrote:I am pissed because I wasn't there :(
Mr. Autosport, as always, your supporters and friends by far outweigh your detractors...we all look forward to a great 2012 season
*kicks car*


And herein lies your problem, you need to be loving to the car, you know like to plants, animals, the wifey - of course I am not sure if I have the order correct??!

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Team Loco » December 13th, 2011, 8:59 am

One day that telstar will kick him back. Well don't talk bout de mg, that might run him over

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Death-Row » December 13th, 2011, 9:01 am

yup, very excited for 2012, maybe then i can dry the car straight lolol

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby MG Man » December 13th, 2011, 9:16 am

AutoSport wrote:
MG Man wrote:I am pissed because I wasn't there :(
Mr. Autosport, as always, your supporters and friends by far outweigh your detractors...we all look forward to a great 2012 season
*kicks car*


And herein lies your problem, you need to be loving to the car, you know like to plants I killed a pepper tree and a spanish thyme....and a cactus..., animals u mean like Team Loco?, the wifey...she kicks me - of course I am not sure if I have the order correct??!

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Porn Star » December 13th, 2011, 9:44 am

professor wrote:Ronnie and I decided not to run and to give the EVOs' a day for themselves, and what happened ? They blew it, literally.

Sorry to hear about the problems guys, Motor Racing is a beyotch. Heard it was still a good day though.

I imagine these cars would be even faster next year.
Season Greetings to all. Take care.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Good one Clive :lol: :lol: :lol:
But Ronnies subaru broke before my Evo did. :P
2012 will be great. This year was just to sort out the teething problems. Next year, will be epic. 8-)
Best you and ronnie retire from now, because I assure you, NO SUBARU is going to win any GT5 class race in 2012.
:P :P

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby paparazzi » December 13th, 2011, 10:04 am

Porn Star wrote: NO SUBARU is going to win any GT5 class race in 2012.


Neither is an EVO.......

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby MG Man » December 13th, 2011, 10:10 am

sooooooooooooooooo..............is Kirk in de Rav4 den ;p

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Porn Star » December 13th, 2011, 10:13 am

paparazzi wrote:
Porn Star wrote: NO SUBARU is going to win any GT5 class race in 2012.


Neither is an EVO.......

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


:lol: :lol: :lol: if yuh stop dealin with that obeahman I may have a chance. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby link » December 13th, 2011, 11:14 am


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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby AutoSport » December 13th, 2011, 11:15 am

Porn Star wrote:
paparazzi wrote:
Porn Star wrote: NO SUBARU is going to win any GT5 class race in 2012.


Neither is an EVO.......

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:


:lol: :lol: :lol: if yuh stop dealin with that obeahman I may have a chance. :lol: :lol: :lol:


So for all of these threats passing thru here, I going an check out the new Archbishop to have a special briefing meeting at the Cathedral Midnight Mass.

We will get rid of the obeah, cleanse the evil ones, lock down the wayward lamp-posts, cones and plastic barriers, 2012 will be just great!

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby BANzai Rastafarai » December 13th, 2011, 11:27 am

AutoSport wrote:Ok, so having sat back and taken in the sparring that has been going on, I have to admit that what was clearly stated to the competitors at the meeting at 1;00pm, was NOT adhered to by the officials in the control tent. Apologies for that from the start. And also for the errors that WERE made on the day.

I really appreciate the many and varied suggestions, all intended and made to have as fair a competition as possible.

Funny, but I do agree with Chris, because it was actually what was intended but MURPHY stormed the party. The major flaw occurred after the 1:00pm testing, when competitors were Not told the Class they should have been running in, and this being discovered later on, we had to step in and try to regroup from where we were at the time.

For those with the positive and constructive comments, and criticism I say thanks. For the one talking about making money, go check to find out what others paid just to get through the gate to compete elsewhere, and then come back and show the real comparisons, And to the one who talk about the freshwater yankee… here we have gotten a knowledgable Trini, residing away, invited to bring a different outlook and that is your best shot.

As I have said to many, I/we have absolutely no interest in favouring one competitor over the other or in deliberately hindering a competitor in his/her attempt to enjoy a day of racing.

We will work with all parties to eventually achieve the best mix and really develop this to its highest potential.


uncle...congrats on you and your awesome team on getting it right bit by bit...as mentioned by a few...its all fun. Whilst i got the "NAAAAAAAAAH BOY you get beat by THREE WOMAN?" comments...i also got th converse where some are considering entering the 2012 seasonjust to try it out and get a taste for what its like.

for 2012, i would love personally to see three things (i think the classing issue is being covered by the hard core racers)

1. A Masters class. Where the first and second placed GT5 guys go up against the likes of Rawle Mahabir, Oswald Stoute, Carrington, Frankie Boodram (ducks..wait he's TTASA right?), Ainsley Lochan, Christian Borne....those guys.... i dunno if these guize are afraid of the talent of Myself (lol) Sharelicks, Ronnie or even Nebert Marin to come out and run. Maybe an event just before the start of the 2012 rally season so we ketch dem in dey prime.

2. Ever considered a 2 wheel/motorcycle class? two bikes on a course like that will have ppl on dey feet...tight turning circle...ridiculous acceleration, caution on the top corners....WIN!!!

3. An "Outlaw" class. Open wheel cars/creations. I know of at least 3 such projects (i know of a modified kart that has a 4 stroke trail bike engine WITH electronic/clutless shifting ) that would prove to be entertaining to see on a closed course. Clearly the regulations for this class would be different from Scrutineering come forward, but it would allow some "home projects" to flex thier muscles..

just ideas to keep the fans coming and the sport alive until we can do better...

BTW...Kudos to DWO and their participation...showing maturity in competing and yet cud "balls out" at the end with that EPIC drifting demonstration.....

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Team Loco » December 13th, 2011, 11:40 am

BANzai Rastafarai wrote:
AutoSport wrote:Ok, so having sat back and taken in the sparring that has been going on, I have to admit that what was clearly stated to the competitors at the meeting at 1;00pm, was NOT adhered to by the officials in the control tent. Apologies for that from the start. And also for the errors that WERE made on the day.

I really appreciate the many and varied suggestions, all intended and made to have as fair a competition as possible.

Funny, but I do agree with Chris, because it was actually what was intended but MURPHY stormed the party. The major flaw occurred after the 1:00pm testing, when competitors were Not told the Class they should have been running in, and this being discovered later on, we had to step in and try to regroup from where we were at the time.

For those with the positive and constructive comments, and criticism I say thanks. For the one talking about making money, go check to find out what others paid just to get through the gate to compete elsewhere, and then come back and show the real comparisons, And to the one who talk about the freshwater yankee… here we have gotten a knowledgable Trini, residing away, invited to bring a different outlook and that is your best shot.

As I have said to many, I/we have absolutely no interest in favouring one competitor over the other or in deliberately hindering a competitor in his/her attempt to enjoy a day of racing.

We will work with all parties to eventually achieve the best mix and really develop this to its highest potential.


uncle...congrats on you and your awesome team on getting it right bit by bit...as mentioned by a few...its all fun. Whilst i got the "NAAAAAAAAAH BOY you get beat by THREE WOMAN?" comments...i also got th converse where some are considering entering the 2012 seasonjust to try it out and get a taste for what its like.

for 2012, i would love personally to see three things (i think the classing issue is being covered by the hard core racers)

1. A Masters class. Where the first and second placed GT5 guys go up against the likes of Rawle Mahabir, Oswald Stoute, Carrington, Frankie Boodram (ducks..wait he's TTASA right?), Ainsley Lochan, Christian Borne....those guys.... i dunno if these guize are afraid of the talent of Myself (lol) Sharelicks, Ronnie or even Nebert Marin to come out and run. Maybe an event just before the start of the 2012 rally season so we ketch dem in dey prime.

2. Ever considered a 2 wheel/motorcycle class? two bikes on a course like that will have ppl on dey feet...tight turning circle...ridiculous acceleration, caution on the top corners....WIN!!!

3. An "Outlaw" class. Open wheel cars/creations. I know of at least 3 such projects (i know of a modified kart that has a 4 stroke trail bike engine WITH electronic/clutless shifting ) that would prove to be entertaining to see on a closed course. Clearly the regulations for this class would be different from Scrutineering come forward, but it would allow some "home projects" to flex thier muscles..

just ideas to keep the fans coming and the sport alive until we can do better...

BTW...Kudos to DWO and their participation...showing maturity in competing and yet cud "balls out" at the end with that EPIC drifting demonstration.....


very good ideas i must say. i guess you were thinking, as they say "outside the box"

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