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Drag & Wind(ing) #5, 11.12.11 ....*Pics on Pg 7*....

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby SRASC » December 11th, 2011, 9:05 pm

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby speedfreak44 » December 11th, 2011, 9:11 pm

this event was well worth it....

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby SRASC » December 11th, 2011, 9:15 pm

speedfreak44 wrote:this event was well worth it....


x2

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby pyromaniax » December 11th, 2011, 9:18 pm

banzai vs s15


kerry vs EVo

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby X2 » December 11th, 2011, 10:33 pm

Had a good time despite my driveline failure. Some good driving today... just wish I got a few more runs. ingalook... I feel your pain... sounds like you got a raw deal and the timing for your turn at the line may have been unfortunate.

Announcers need to work on thier trade or maybe given a script ?

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby chris1388 » December 11th, 2011, 10:59 pm

The yellow ignis sport was also cheated out which was absolutely absurd. How could none of the officials see that the car DID NOT MOVE off the line and was still given a red light??? This same thing happened a few runs later and that driver was given a re-run since it was down to the lights malfunctioning.
The officials need to pay more attention to what is going on the track and announcers spend less time "ole talking". We all saw the ignis just stood on the line yet NO official saw this and disqualified the poor man.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby MG Man » December 11th, 2011, 11:39 pm

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Saeed » December 12th, 2011, 8:24 am

ingalook wrote:My experience today...

[Backstory - read if you want]

In June I was in an accident where my ankle was cut severing 2 tendons, they had to be re-attached with surgery leaving me with crutches and a cast for 2 months. My recovery has been slow but steady, today was the first day I've worn shoes since the accident since my foot has been swollen (and still is to a lesser extent)

I've spent 2 days this week by my mechanic until late into the night (get some pressure from the wife for this) trying to get my car ready for this event, last night we finally seemed to get the wiring issues sorted out, so I was looking forward to a triumphant return to motorsport...

[end of Backstory]

On to today:

I got to do 2 practice runs, both in the 58sec mark, i then lined up for my 3rd run. I sat in my car for about 10 minutes (I know it was 10 minutes since i listened to the whole of "Freebird") then I got to the front of the line... the marshal signalled to us the practice runs were finished... now it would have been nice if they just walked up the line of cars and told us that we would not get to run... I looked across to the other driver on the line, he looked puzzled and annoyed.

"Oh well I'll better my time in qualifying" I thought to myself...

Briefing for qualifying delivered by Rawle (ah think)

-3 qualifying runs
-best run will class you
-Competitors have the option to bump themselves up one class after their first run
-For the shootout if you are called and do not show up you get a DQ
-Competitors are allowed to break the class time by 1 second but no more

My runs:

1st run - DNF I went around the roundabout the wrong way
2nd run - Sit on the starting line waiting for about 15 minutes for them to clean up parts of some guy gearbox... no biggee... Then I'm off, track seems slippery, I hit some gravel and go into a skid... it takes everything I have to keep the car from spinning, skid-countersteer, skid-counterster, skid-countersteer, skid-countersteer... must have been entertaining to watch... but not fast by any measure.... 63 secs
3rd run - Amir and I end up lining up side by side "Doh beat mih" he yells accross to me "I'll try" I yell back. Amir gets the jump on me at the start, he leaves me on the straight, but I notice he's slow around the roundabout and I figure out a better line. I look at my timeslip, I ACTUALLY WON!

My car (84) put down a 55.904
Amir (600) put down a 56.462

Since it was mentioned that there is a 1 second leeway I assume that based on my best time of the day 55.904 that I will be put into the 56-58 sec class, exactly where I want to be... SWEET!

The shootout starts, my car is the very FIRST CAR CALLED, I don't want a DQ so I jump in my car and rush to the start.

I'm up against a oldschool swift, I make easy work of him, I get the slip:

Car 84 (me) - 56.642
Car 240 - 60.687 WINNER

I ask the guy who handed me the slip what is going on, I knew that run was clean, he says I won but the have some issue with the timing equipment...

Then I notice a big nasty word on my slip "BREAKOUT"

i go to the tent to inquire as to what is going on....

"What is this about?" I ask

"You more than a second under class time, this class is 58-60 secs" they reply

"How allyuh could put me in that class, I just run a 55.9????" I ask

"Yuh have dat slip?" they ask

I run to my car to get m slip... "here" I give them the slip... I look at their records and notice that the don't seem to have that time anywhere

"But you running 58s whole day" They reply

"But that was in PRACTICE" I point out

"we use an average... we can't make an exception for you" they reply

"We don't have time for this" another marshal adds

I visualise a soldier yelling "UDFR"

I stand there looking pissed off and ask again and again but the replies are much the same... my day of racing is over :(

My issues are this:

1. In which type of racing are you classed based on your AVERAGE TIME???

2. What is the point of qualifying if you are factoring in my PRACTICE times?

Seriously, I can't take this kinda stupidness, I would not have minded if I was put in a higher class and get a proper cutarse, or I do crap and DNF but to lose like this was retarded.

I was told that I should have come to the tent after my first run and requested a bump in to to 56-58 bracket... my first run was a DNF... how I supposed to guess where to put my car?

Is it my job to class my car or the officials?

We don't need qualifying then, is better we just come and tell allyuh what class we want to be in.

You guys put me in the 58-60 bracket, then you put Amir, (who I beat) in the 54-56 bracket... where allyuh learn to do maths?

To make matters worse the classes are called as "GT-3, GT-4" etc.... now that might sound cool like different editions of Gran Tourismo and all but both the competitors and the spectators have no idea what those numbers mean in terms of time bracket, the mic was used repeatedly by some freshwater yankee to harass Jameer Ali but no effort was made to actually educate us on what the classes meant...

If allyuh had too many cars and didn't need my $150 allyuh coulda just say so... I woulda just chill out home and mark some exam papers...

End of rant...



I faced a similar problem. All morning my qualifying times were consistent at 57 and under... During qualifying, On my second run, i made a bad run and did 59 second. I was then placed in GT2. My assumption was GT bracket was 57 to 59, So naturally when i run in the knockout, I improved an made a 56.X only to be told that I broke out of bracket. When querying the 'breakout' then i was told the GT2 bracket is 58- 60 second.
I asked then why was i placed in GT2 when clearly all morning i was running faster times that that bracket. I was told I run a 59 with the 57 so they take that into account. So they put me in GT2 an give a 1 second allowance to break the bracket. WTH? We came to race not watch a clock an drive.

Honestly if the bracket times were announced to the competitors then we would ask to move in a higher bracket. I rather Race and loose to a competitor who beat me fair than telling me i race a man, win and then loss cuz i improve, even thought the car i was racing is faster than mine. has better suspension and a bigger engine


With this timing system, you place a Single Cam 1.5 stock road civic to race a subaru legacy and a 3S alteeza???? and when the Single cam win you say he drive to fast so he loss.. daz rubbish.

Autosport you all have a nice idea and a good event. Please listen to the plea of the drives and fix the categorization scheme.

Suggestions for Classification:

I say go back to the old system where we make groups of car and have them run each other. this timed bracket thing ain't working at all. an too many screw-ups. Class cars according to power, weight and 2wh/ 4wh drive.. not what a drive can do with a car.

Another good idea to note was, time are recorded for all the car, if you insist of staying with the time brackets, group the cars according to times and forget the timing in the knockout round. You all already have an idea of what cars can do what times.. group the cars and when it comes to knockout, who in the box first win.

I look forward to improvements in 2012 and I hope that before the final rules are decided, you all meet with the drivers and listen to the suggestion, so we could work out a solid rule book and system where everyone is satisfied.

done ranting... one the high note, the grudge runs at the end make my day.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby A172 » December 12th, 2011, 9:09 am

damn@ Evo

drifting guys were entertaining

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby roadracer7 » December 12th, 2011, 9:44 am

this is where the technical gets technical. for the record,autosports in t+t has always been about making money & not about you.a as said it was best if they told you they did not need your money,[never happen]. fia rules the fastest time [in qualifying] stands, not practice times.autosports promotions has been around for a long time to be so inefficent at what they do for driver's, but efficent in taking your money.best form a driver's association to take it the promoters.but now you have trini lazyness to deal with. so, for now take the crap they are dealing out. a good sportsman enjoys a good cut.ss as a victory. unity is strength, oneity is trench.[waller field all over again].

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby BANzai Rastafarai » December 12th, 2011, 9:50 am

Me too! when it came t oth competition runs i ran once against the Lady driven civic, collect meh licks but was looking forward to race another car in my bracket with a chance to at least get to the "semis'" ..thias why i did park meh car wheh i did park it (plus the evo driver i was sharing meh tent with park he car in twiss up position). So yeah, for those that are battling for position, i guess the system needs some teething out still...or meh ole fart brain mis understood the competition rules....

But I didnt enter the event to compete for position as I realized apart from Venus Miller in the Altezza (ah next woman that beat meh) i had the on stock rims and tyres. I entered it just to have fun....to test some limits with the car on a gravel surface (LYR doh really have that), eat some curry duck and collect "we bringing the Dass Funeral Home Hearse fuh yuh" torks whole day in an evo filled tent.

One suggestion though. If possible...post up the 10 best reaction times for the day Uncle Rawle...it was a nice n close fight...i think my best was a .521

And yes...before the rest ah dem cone in d ched...ah collect licks from THREE woman yesterday.. .Venus, Hannah Morris, and a NOOB in a Civic.....but it was great times....i would urge ANYONE to just come out and participate....dont push yuh car beyond what you know may break it...thats what i did....and this morning meh car back to "meeting with the PS of the ministry" mode...bounce one start and gorne..

BTW...Paparazzi.....heheheheheeheee....yuh have a OMEN jed!!!!......

looking forward to 2012.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Porn Star » December 12th, 2011, 9:59 am

Paparazzi wuk ah obeah on meh cyar :lol: :lol: :lol: .
I am sorry to those of you that had problems. Please bring them up with rawle mahabir and I am sure things will be better organized for the next event.
I had a great day. Posted the fastest time for the day with a 50.8 and I was trying to get into 49's but unfortunately my engine went kaboom. :lol: :lol:
Saltydog, sorry about your turbo. I was really looking forward to racing against you. And yes, you did slaughter me on the launch.
Banzai, please delete self. :|
Ignis, I hear your family had you on suicide watch all night. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby roadracer7 » December 12th, 2011, 10:06 am

Porn Star wrote:Paparazzi wuk ah obeah on meh cyar :lol: :lol: :lol: .
I am sorry to those of you that had problems. Please bring them up with rawle mahabir and I am sure things will be better organized for the next event.
I had a great day. Posted the fastest time for the day with a 50.8 and I was trying to get into 49's but unfortunately my engine went kaboom. :lol: :lol:
Saltydog, sorry about your turbo. I was really looking forward to racing against you. And yes, you did slaughter me on the launch.
Banzai, please delete self. :|
Ignis, I hear your family had you on suicide watch all night. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

that's the spirit of racing,we race we win/lose,we's friends. spread it around. remain in school, that's cool.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby BANzai Rastafarai » December 12th, 2011, 10:13 am

A172 wrote:damn@ Evo

drifting guys were entertaining



funny yu should mention that....the drift guys put down some very good times too eh!!...had the precision drivers on thier toes!!

sooo...

2012?...yeah?....we seeing yuh?..

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby A172 » December 12th, 2011, 10:16 am

If I bored on a Sunday and feeling to make a late evening drive, yeah.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby SR » December 12th, 2011, 10:34 am

roflmao at

"dass" waitin on yuh outside


ah was backin yuh eh since is a leggie yuh runnin but yunno d honda camp still in d blood well actual is really family so......it was a 50/50

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Mr. Fixables » December 12th, 2011, 10:57 am

Rawle,

Thanks for keeping an open mind about the RAV4 running yesterday.

We did have concerns of it being unstable, however I would say that at no time did I feel the car to be unsafe or at any risk of a rollover during the test run or any runs thereafter.

We will have it back out for 2012 with a bit more suspension and a bit better tire combo to hopefully give GT2 a run for their money.

Thanks again.
Kirk

BTW. It was hilarious to have a stock RAV4 win GT1 :shock:
680 treadwear tires for the win!! ROFL

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby oro » December 12th, 2011, 11:10 am

I have a question, if both cars in competition breakout of the class don't they both lose? Because myself and another car did just that and yet I saw the same car was called back to race again. Am i missing something here?

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Death-Row » December 12th, 2011, 12:11 pm

great event. alot of stuff were fixed from the last few. only prob i had tho, not sure if i missed it but i thought the runs b4 1PM were to set a time to see if you qualified for knock out like last time. i pushed my car hard and gotten into the 57sec bracket, by then my tyres were kinda on its way out lol. then they announced that 3 runs per person after to set a qualifying time. if i knew this b4, i would've just taken one run b4 1pm to feel out the course and save my car for the qualifying rounds.

as most can see, my car was just sliding all over the damn place after 1pm lmao, that gravel really takes a toll on the tyres.


all in all, great event. got some nice fun runs and hope to do better next year with some tweaks i have in mind.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby wagon r » December 12th, 2011, 1:27 pm

Event was a bess way to end the year.Sun was murder. Sean, sorry bout the blow up, but sorry for everyone else knowin what taking it's place.

No pics till next week.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Team Loco » December 12th, 2011, 1:56 pm

BANzai Rastafarai wrote:Me too! when it came t oth competition runs i ran once against the Lady driven civic, collect meh licks but was looking forward to race another car in my bracket with a chance to at least get to the "semis'" ..thias why i did park meh car wheh i did park it (plus the evo driver i was sharing meh tent with park he car in twiss up position). So yeah, for those that are battling for position, i guess the system needs some teething out still...or meh ole fart brain mis understood the competition rules....

But I didnt enter the event to compete for position as I realized apart from Venus Miller in the Altezza (ah next woman that beat meh) i had the on stock rims and tyres. I entered it just to have fun....to test some limits with the car on a gravel surface (LYR doh really have that), eat some curry duck and collect "we bringing the Dass Funeral Home Hearse fuh yuh" torks whole day in an evo filled tent.

One suggestion though. If possible...post up the 10 best reaction times for the day Uncle Rawle...it was a nice n close fight...i think my best was a .521

And yes...before the rest ah dem cone in d ched...ah collect licks from THREE woman yesterday.. .Venus, Hannah Morris, and a NOOB in a Civic.....but it was great times....i would urge ANYONE to just come out and participate....dont push yuh car beyond what you know may break it...thats what i did....and this morning meh car back to "meeting with the PS of the ministry" mode...bounce one start and gorne..

BTW...Paparazzi.....heheheheheeheee....yuh have a OMEN jed!!!!......

looking forward to 2012.


doh forget man beat you too

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby chris1388 » December 12th, 2011, 2:02 pm

If you guys want to stay with this classification system then here are some suggestions:

1.) When classing the cars, let everyone get a large number of free runs/practice/qualifying runs in the morning session.
2.) Analyse everyone's times and class cars on their FASTEST run ONLY......NOT an average of fast and slow runs.
3.) I agree with the earlier comment, by the time we reach to the knockout rounds you are basically pairing the fastest of cars against each other in each class....you no longer have to worry about the slower cars because at this point they will be eliminated in any case. Scrap the bracket thing and make the knockout an all out race to the box...allow drivers to push even harder to beat the other man but retain all other penalties such as cutting the course, cone penalty, hitting barriers etc.

If someone was sandbagging and holding back I doubt they would reach to the knockout in their specific bracket...they would have broken out earlier and gotten eliminated before that.

With the suggestions I have made about you can class the car on the fastest time so drivers no longer have to complain of being put in too slow a class. That being said, consistency is the name of the game when going this route. If you put down a miracle run once then can't replicate that time....well....be prepared to get blows all day in the faster class, simple as that. If you want to win you have to be consistent....that will separate the good drivers from the drivers that just have good cars.
I think if we go this way, the overall winner at the end of the day in each class will truly be the guys that deserved it because they would have been fast, consistent and disciplined.

Rawle...please consider.

One last thing....we have done this a few times now....by now we know the limits of times competitors do on the course i.e the slowest times and the fastest times. You all need to come up with the classes BEFORE hand and publish this so that it is known by all the particular bracket limit of that class. This way we the competitors will know for example.....GT2 is from 58-60seconds....so on the day now when you hear you in GT2 we know what the limit is for that class already so that we know how close our qualifying time was to potentially breaking the bracket.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Team Loco » December 12th, 2011, 2:34 pm

chris1388 wrote:If you guys want to stay with this classification system then here are some suggestions:

1.) When classing the cars, let everyone get a large number of free runs/practice/qualifying runs in the morning session.
2.) Analyse everyone's times and class cars on their FASTEST run ONLY......NOT an average of fast and slow runs.
3.) I agree with the earlier comment, by the time we reach to the knockout rounds you are basically pairing the fastest of cars against each other in each class....you no longer have to worry about the slower cars because at this point they will be eliminated in any case. Scrap the bracket thing and make the knockout an all out race to the box...allow drivers to push even harder to beat the other man but retain all other penalties such as cutting the course, cone penalty, hitting barriers etc.

If someone was sandbagging and holding back I doubt they would reach to the knockout in their specific bracket...they would have broken out earlier and gotten eliminated before that.

With the suggestions I have made about you can class the car on the fastest time so drivers no longer have to complain of being put in too slow a class. That being said, consistency is the name of the game when going this route. If you put down a miracle run once then can't replicate that time....well....be prepared to get blows all day in the faster class, simple as that. If you want to win you have to be consistent....that will separate the good drivers from the drivers that just have good cars.
I think if we go this way, the overall winner at the end of the day in each class will truly be the guys that deserved it because they would have been fast, consistent and disciplined.

Rawle...please consider.

One last thing....we have done this a few times now....by now we know the limits of times competitors do on the course i.e the slowest times and the fastest times. You all need to come up with the classes BEFORE hand and publish this so that it is known by all the particular bracket limit of that class. This way we the competitors will know for example.....GT2 is from 58-60seconds....so on the day now when you hear you in GT2 we know what the limit is for that class already so that we know how close our qualifying time was to potentially breaking the bracket.


i second this. i know it was mentioned in the briefing that competitors would know their classes before they would run officially. this did not happen.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Ignorant Ignis » December 12th, 2011, 2:35 pm

i had my own share of problems, but having a fair understanding of the classifications i made my way to the timing tent over 5 times to make sure i was in the right class....speaking to two main officials each time ....then to be told i was placed in the higher class and nothing could have been done about it at that time .... but besides the classifications it was a great well organised event.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Team Loco » December 12th, 2011, 3:02 pm

basically it winds down to communication between officials and competitors. good first experience nonetheless

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby X2 » December 12th, 2011, 4:50 pm

Team Loco wrote:
chris1388 wrote:.............

Rawle...please consider.

One last thing....we have done this a few times now....by now we know the limits of times competitors do on the course i.e the slowest times and the fastest times. You all need to come up with the classes BEFORE hand and publish this so that it is known by all the particular bracket limit of that class. This way we the competitors will know for example.....GT2 is from 58-60seconds....so on the day now when you hear you in GT2 we know what the limit is for that class already so that we know how close our qualifying time was to potentially breaking the bracket.


i second this. i know it was mentioned in the briefing that competitors would know their classes before they would run officially. this did not happen.



Might be difficult to do at the briefing unless the course is laid out exactly the same. You will notice each of the past events is slightly different... with people's times varing by more than a second from one event to another. For instance, my fastest in the civic yesterday was 53.4, while it was able to do 52's in the previous event. So I don't think they can pre set the class times just yet.. Imagine, a stock rav 4 took GT1 with an average lap time of 60 seconds... there is no guarantee that next event, the GT1 class will be full of 60 second cars. Maybe set the slowest times as the basis for GT1 and set each class a full second or 1.5sec faster each class up.

Regarding the breakout... I heard some competitors complaining that they were told thier fastest time in qualifying was thier breakout time in the semis and that they would DQ if they ran faster than they did in qualifying. This needs to be clarified as all drivers SHOULD be getting faster as the day goes by... so telling someone that thier fastest qualifying time counts as the extra 1 sec breakout 'bligh' (which is A LOT) doesn't seem proper.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby JUS4SHO » December 12th, 2011, 4:52 pm

Great day. Kudos to autosport for a fantastic event. Had a great time liming with d old tuner boys.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby X2 » December 12th, 2011, 4:57 pm

Just a side note... from previous D&W events... I find that the people manning the timing tent don't seem to want to listen to competitor complaints, regardless of validity. The event runs well and much respect and thanks to those that donate thier time to do this... but honestly, it can be extremely frustrating when you have a valid point and get completely ignored when trying to address it with the correct parties.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby chris1388 » December 12th, 2011, 5:54 pm

X2 wrote:
Team Loco wrote:
chris1388 wrote:.............

Rawle...please consider.

One last thing....we have done this a few times now....by now we know the limits of times competitors do on the course i.e the slowest times and the fastest times. You all need to come up with the classes BEFORE hand and publish this so that it is known by all the particular bracket limit of that class. This way we the competitors will know for example.....GT2 is from 58-60seconds....so on the day now when you hear you in GT2 we know what the limit is for that class already so that we know how close our qualifying time was to potentially breaking the bracket.


i second this. i know it was mentioned in the briefing that competitors would know their classes before they would run officially. this did not happen.



Might be difficult to do at the briefing unless the course is laid out exactly the same. You will notice each of the past events is slightly different... with people's times varing by more than a second from one event to another. For instance, my fastest in the civic yesterday was 53.4, while it was able to do 52's in the previous event. So I don't think they can pre set the class times just yet.. Imagine, a stock rav 4 took GT1 with an average lap time of 60 seconds... there is no guarantee that next event, the GT1 class will be full of 60 second cars. Maybe set the slowest times as the basis for GT1 and set each class a full second or 1.5sec faster each class up.


I understand that anthony....but does the class really matter? or does it matter more that you are classed fairly? So what if the course is changed a bit....you'd just be put into a different "class" next event but it wont matter because you would still be fairly classed on THAT DAY since you would be competing with cars that are doing around the same times within that particular class be it class 1,2,3 etc.

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Re: Drag & Wind(ing) #5, the Grand Finale, Sunday 11th Dece

Postby Team Loco » December 12th, 2011, 6:30 pm

btw anyone missing a tyre iron? /wheel spanner. i seem to have ended up with an extra one.

jus4sho, yuh ent even hail meh out??

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