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AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby nismo_demon » April 16th, 2013, 9:38 pm

Computerman wrote:
nismo_demon wrote:
wagonrunner wrote:if this is a rule then i have no problem whatsoever with it, it just has to be followed at all times and it must be made clear to all competitors, am i being unfair or unreasonable?
Can you elaborate as to when this rule was infringed upon?


i think its best if this arguement ends here, like i said before i made statements publicly, therefore i am apologising publicly to autosport for any and all accusations made before, all concerns were addressed very calmly and in a civilized manner and i am sure thats how all concerns are going to continue to be addressed in future

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby nismo_demon » April 16th, 2013, 9:44 pm

wagonrunner wrote:you're not unfair or unreasonable.
I am saying it's a law of life.
Who finishes first, wins (except in case of red-light / breakout). right. And it is possible for a faster ET to finish last.

So my next question, can you give an example when it wasn't followed? based on "all the time".

forgot the breakout part. sorry about that.


no sir if i have to do this then it would result in competitors being called, so like i said i'm sure this can be explained thoroughly off this forum or maybe perhaps at the next briefing, the times slips would be there and our concerns can be addressed in a proper manner, is that okay?

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby wagonrunner » April 16th, 2013, 9:58 pm

PM works. so PM sent.

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby vtmiller11 » April 16th, 2013, 10:11 pm

I absolutely ppreciate a competitor's right to seek clarification on competition issues and would like some clarification myself. It's no secret that quite a few competitors in 2B have complained about 'sandbaggers' (me too, at one point, but I've since moved on). What I find absolutely hilarious now though, is the fact that the breakout time was moved from 56 to 55 seconds and competitors still breaking out :D . Mr. Autosport please change the breakout time to 54 next event just to see if our 'B' drivers could continue to breakout and run 53s like the 'A' drivers.

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby AutoSport » April 16th, 2013, 10:37 pm

vtmiller11 wrote:I absolutely ppreciate a competitor's right to seek clarification on competition issues and would like some clarification myself. It's no secret that quite a few competitors in 2B have complained about 'sandbaggers' (me too, at one point, but I've since moved on). What I find absolutely hilarious now though, is the fact that the breakout time was moved from 56 to 55 seconds and competitors still breaking out :D . Mr. Autosport please change the breakout time to 54 next event just to see if our 'B' drivers could continue to breakout and run 53s like the 'A' drivers.

Sorry but that is not MY decision to make, but for a Team discussion, and then come back to competitors.

Interesting to note the following that show all the runs below 56 secs.....
COMP,CLASS,RT, ET
105 2B 0.157 54.431
105 2B 0.161 54.518
28 2B 0.089 54.573
105 2B 0.258 54.613
105 2B 0.170 54.823
52 2B 0.214 55.035
105 2B 0.200 55.140
28 2B 0.060 55.150
54 2B 0.153 55.212
28 2B 0.049 55.226
105 2B 0.359 55.329
52 2B 0.030 55.352
52 2B 0.305 55.499
28 2B 0.109 55.571
54 2B 0.122 55.671
52 2B 0.094 55.732
105 2B 0.285 55.736
105 2B 0.356 55.764
28 2B 0.163 55.786
28 2B 0.109 55.999

Which brings me back to a suggestion I made earlier on...

Should we run Classes according to the real capability of car and driver, that is, discard the 1600 Class 1 limit, the 2000 Class 2 limit etc.

And come up with classes, 59 secs, 58 secs, 57 secs, etc..

So we can see the real potential of driver and car, note carefully, THE REAL POTENTIAL OF CAR AND DRIVER!

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby wagonrunner » April 16th, 2013, 10:43 pm

AutoSport wrote:Should we run Classes according to the real capability of car and driver, that is, discard the 1600 Class 1 limit, the 2000 Class 2 limit etc.

And come up with classes, 59 secs, 58 secs, 57 secs, etc..

So we can see the real potential of driver and car, note carefully, THE REAL POTENTIAL OF CAR AND DRIVER!

Should have been it from day one. Bracket race around corners.
That engine CC thing has too many holes.
8 classes, a second gap each.
the problem with that is consistency, tires that put you in a class today, when worn could see you out of your league two three events down.

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby AutoSport » April 16th, 2013, 10:51 pm

wagonrunner wrote:
AutoSport wrote:Should we run Classes according to the real capability of car and driver, that is, discard the 1600 Class 1 limit, the 2000 Class 2 limit etc.

And come up with classes, 59 secs, 58 secs, 57 secs, etc..

So we can see the real potential of driver and car, note carefully, THE REAL POTENTIAL OF CAR AND DRIVER!

Should have been it from day one. Bracket race around corners.
That engine CC thing has too many holes.
8 classes, a second gap each.
the problem with that is consistency, tires that put you in a class today, when worn could see you out of your league two three events down.

That is not a problem, allow free movement up or down, and still do not have to bother with upgrades, not even Turbo.

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby wagonrunner » April 16th, 2013, 10:52 pm

how you get a year end class champ, when they raced in 3 or 4 classes for the year?
in straight lines, fellas mashed brake everytime to stay in 15's not go into 14's.
how you do that here?

though just like in braket racing days, it could work yunno.
yuh making sure yuh cross the finish beam barely in front, almost alongside the other car, and pray he didn't breakout.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby southside crew » April 16th, 2013, 11:28 pm

I think that how it was in the start.. run with your times.. ( well that is what I honestly remember from the first event)

with rgds to the * issue * that Nismo is having, plz look up and see how a DRAG timing system works.. ( it's not no rule that was put in place , This was ALWAYS here.. think the exact term when that happens they call it a Whole shot win )

no I'm not hating or bashing just trying to help clear the matter up..

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby afternex2 » April 16th, 2013, 11:35 pm

with breakout times in the B being close to the times in the A class to me its not workin. cause like everyone can see there would not be any new competitors havin ah chance or shot of qualifying in B class much less A class

class #3 b breakout time is 54

best time in #3 a was 54.231 event 3 an 54.169

i would say breakout times should have some more space frm fastest A class time. an if competitors breakout its either they lose an bump up to A or lose an try again for next event. sandbagging is ah choice an i believe that was covered before.

i am only observing. an its class 2 an class 3 that have times close to each other.

to me u cyah play mas an fraid powder.

want to race an wen u breakout yuh doh like it,u know what to do,your choice.

im not pressing on anyone,thank you.

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby Computerman » April 17th, 2013, 7:42 am

AutoSport wrote:
wagonrunner wrote:
AutoSport wrote:Should we run Classes according to the real capability of car and driver, that is, discard the 1600 Class 1 limit, the 2000 Class 2 limit etc.

And come up with classes, 59 secs, 58 secs, 57 secs, etc..

So we can see the real potential of driver and car, note carefully, THE REAL POTENTIAL OF CAR AND DRIVER!

Should have been it from day one. Bracket race around corners.
That engine CC thing has too many holes.
8 classes, a second gap each.
the problem with that is consistency, tires that put you in a class today, when worn could see you out of your league two three events down.

That is not a problem, allow free movement up or down, and still do not have to bother with upgrades, not even Turbo.
I agree with the bracket system. Let competitors utilise the first two events to determine their class (for those who don't know where they 'fall') and 'lock in' from event #3.

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby southside crew » April 17th, 2013, 8:09 am

Agree with Bracket.....

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby afternex2 » April 17th, 2013, 8:23 am

bracket racing wud hav similar issues that we are havin now. the system it hav rite now is workin,not for all but for most.

did it work good last year? it just needs some tweaking.

thanks.

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby ng357 » April 17th, 2013, 10:57 am

i agree with the bracket racing for one reason that it wud encourage driver ability rather dan spending a lot of money on ur car to be competitive. some people have to purchase expensive tires, upgrade to coilovers etc just to keep up and still may not be too close to first. thats just my opinion

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby Computerman » April 17th, 2013, 12:09 pm

ng357 wrote:i agree with the bracket racing for one reason that it wud encourage driver ability rather dan spending a lot of money on ur car to be competitive. some people have to purchase expensive tires, upgrade to coilovers etc just to keep up and still may not be too close to first. thats just my opinion
When this was discussed at the 1st meeting the majority decided to stay with the existing system. So, although my personal preference is to use the 'brackets only' system, I support the decision that was taken based on the input from the competitors.

However, after speaking with some of the competitors, maybe ARA could consider implementing a more formal system of competition management? We are looking toward the future, motorsport is finally seeing that 'glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel'. Remember, not all changes can be implemented immediately. This is somthing we would need to discuss with all stakeholders.

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby ng357 » April 17th, 2013, 2:02 pm

ofc, I understand this, and I too agreed with the system, but asked only if something was done to illuminate, the sandbagging taking in place in the class that i was in.... It is hard to explain the dynamics of what was occurring, but with the new track this seem to be a bit closer to the bracket.

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby pete » April 17th, 2013, 2:21 pm

WRT "sandbagging"

In Drag Racing there were brackets 1 second apart. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16

Ideally, if you want to win the bracket, the car should be FASTER than the bracket time.

What would you do if you had a car that could run a best of 15.6 seconds? Would you run in 16s where you have to learn to hold back or would you run against cars that are capable of doing 14.8 and just hold back a little to clock spot on 15.0 seconds?

Maybe the problem is just that the bracket time is too fast right now so some just hold back a little while others have no chance of making the time?

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby afternex2 » April 17th, 2013, 3:46 pm

This is not drag racing, times are not 10 11 12 seconds they are 50 plus seconds buh anyway. I'm awaiting autosport decision on the bracket times an timing system. I would also add to the timing slip we get have ET times an Reaction, now wen qualifying fastest 4 do u use ET times alone or ET times plus reaction? Jus my observation.thank you

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby RASC » April 17th, 2013, 3:58 pm

afternex2 wrote:This is not drag racing, times are not 10 11 12 seconds they are 50 plus seconds buh anyway.


It's called an "EXAMPLE" bro. He was just drawing reference... :?

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby afternex2 » April 17th, 2013, 4:07 pm

I didn't kno u use examples frm one type to another. But anyway no need to get all technical professor. Do u always point out stuff, thinkin that u alone can understand what the other person wrote, since u kno stuff tell me some more about how they check times on d slip when qualifyin cars boss man?

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby wagonrunner » April 17th, 2013, 4:14 pm

afternex2 wrote:I didn't kno u use examples frm one type to another. But anyway no need to get all technical professor. Do u always point out stuff, thinkin that u alone can understand what the other person wrote, since u kno stuff tell me some more about how they check times on d slip when qualifyin cars boss man?

ET's are used for qualifying.
completing the course quickly will see a competitor into the finals.
but a lousy reaction will them lose out of a podium finish.

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby afternex2 » April 17th, 2013, 4:39 pm

so reaction doesnt count in qualifying like it does in finals? cuz in some classes there more than 4 cars plus times can be close, an it can be close as where ones reaction time can or cannot make the fastest 4, which brings me to ask why isnt used one way across the board, Reaction plus ET or ET.

im not jumping on who or what tuners,im jus learning about the system (timing/reaction), i dont kno all of it,i kno ah little.

thanks for the reply.

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby wagonrunner » April 17th, 2013, 4:42 pm

finals are determined by who finish first without redlights, breakouts, cone penalties.
there, RT's are a factor.

competition is between cars with the fastest ET in a class (bracket).

Just like Drag Racing.

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby RASC » April 17th, 2013, 4:43 pm

afternex2 wrote:I didn't kno u use examples frm one type to another.
Yup it's done all the time, for easier referencing. Did you do CXC English?
In CXC English it's called "Comparison and Contrast". It makes life very easy when explaining a more technical subject to a person of lesser intelligence. :)


But anyway no need to get all technical professor.
It was very simple actually. I just read it to a 12 yrold....they seemed to understand :? Are we talking about the same thing here?

Do u always point out stuff, thinkin that u alone can understand what the other person wrote, since u kno stuff tell me some more about how they check times on d slip when qualifyin cars boss man?
NO. I'm not telling you anything until you apologise to me, and your fellow tuners. Now sit in the corner and think about what you just did.


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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby afternex2 » April 17th, 2013, 5:00 pm

i gettin d info sir rasc.no need to beat up k.thanks for ur explanation though,ur too kind.

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby RASC » April 17th, 2013, 5:04 pm

afternex2 wrote:i gettin d info sir rasc.no need to beat up k.thanks for ur explanation though,ur too kind.

:lol: I not beating up, you need to check your pulse.
Calm down, people are trying to work with you...you're coming across as very aggressive.


Just an observation.

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby Computerman » April 17th, 2013, 5:44 pm

pete wrote:Ideally, if you want to win the bracket, the car should be FASTER than the bracket time.
Quite rightly so! It's bracket racing, not "PINKS All Out"!

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby MICROTECH 7 » April 17th, 2013, 7:22 pm

WELL YES, I hope some of you have calmed down now.

This issue was discussed in the pit area with time slips in hand and did not mention the query at the control tent, there was even a full hour and more in the drift event after Drag & Wind was completed and still no query.

I myself would not consider this issue for a rule book, this would fall under the normal timing practice for the system used, what seems to be more of an issue is the ignorance and understanding of the same system used after a full year and a half of racing, The drag racing aspect cannot be ignored in Drag & Wind because Drag Racing lights are being used, which is what makes this event unique for a time attack event. Please do not make comparisons to Solodex, that would be a mistake

It is just ashamed that the organisers are being attacked because of ignorance of a light system detail that has been around forever, at the last briefing meeting there were almost no questions asked and this is not the first time I heard this query.

Yet I am disappointed in the acquisitions made against the organiser that is always available to answers all the questions posed to him with honest and open dialogue. It is evident that they are trying hard to keep this sport alive with no Minister and Government support, please, yes you have rights to understand most... but without the BEAT DOWNS.

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby ng357 » April 17th, 2013, 9:36 pm

well first and foremost, let us not make any accusations because it is auto sport who gave us all this unique opportunity to race. It is a great effort being made and they keep good dialog and competitors in mind. This is a joint effort to make a perfect system, which cannot be made over a short period of time....

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Re: AutoSport’s Drag & Wind #3 - 14th April 2013

Postby dubcity » April 17th, 2013, 10:27 pm

From reading this tread there is an issue that no one seems to be commenting on,"SANDBAGGING".
Clearly it shows that the competitor nismo_demon is frustrated by other competitor(s) doing this,lashed out at AutoSport and he didn't take the time to understand the way the timing system works.Who wouldn't be after a full year of racing seeing this happening event after event waiting for things to be tweaked or competitor(s) to be bumped in class.New year and the same issue in the same class!Several competitors have moved up in class with vehicles that are classed for lower just so they won't encounter this.Sounds fair?Here is one eg.
vtmiller11 wrote:I absolutely ppreciate a competitor's right to seek clarification on competition issues and would like some clarification myself. It's no secret that quite a few competitors in 2B have complained about 'sandbaggers' (me too, at one point, but I've since moved on). What I find absolutely hilarious now though, is the fact that the breakout time was moved from 56 to 55 seconds and competitors still breaking out :D . Mr. Autosport please change the breakout time to 54 next event just to see if our 'B' drivers could continue to breakout and run 53s like the 'A' drivers.


I hope all this can be settled and a standard be set for the future,good luck AutoSport.

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