TriniTuner.com  |  Latest Event:  

Forums

SOLODEX RULES 2010

Official Solodex Forum -
Please visit www.carstt.com for more info on Autocross (aka Solodex)

Moderators: CarsTT, CARSTT SoloDex, 3ne2nr Mods

User avatar
MG Man
2NRholic
Posts: 20613
Joined: May 1st, 2003, 1:31 pm
Location: trying to make a cinco-moti sandwich

Postby MG Man » February 17th, 2010, 1:49 pm

yuh pssy
stop talkin in parables and say wot yuh want tuh say
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Advertisement
User avatar
wagonrunner
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 12617
Joined: May 18th, 2004, 9:38 am
Location: Distancing myself from those who want to raid the barn but eh want to plant the corn.
Contact:

Postby wagonrunner » February 17th, 2010, 1:52 pm

MG Man wrote:well according to the rules that's ok buddy..............

ok. once the rules are keeping the competition fair and balanced.

User avatar
MadCrix
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 3502
Joined: March 22nd, 2004, 2:46 pm
Location: Where your ride simply cannot go
Contact:

Postby MadCrix » February 17th, 2010, 1:56 pm

but wasn't this rule part of the rules years now

we always allowed it kevin, it was an allowable mod.

only adjustable shocks (tokico iluminas) and coilovers last year attracted 3 points

this year, we split it and separated lowering springs and coilovers as coilovers give greater advantages than lowering springs and should not include the same penalty

User avatar
MG Man
2NRholic
Posts: 20613
Joined: May 1st, 2003, 1:31 pm
Location: trying to make a cinco-moti sandwich

Postby MG Man » February 17th, 2010, 2:00 pm

ok cool
none ah this affects me anyways cuz I cya even get parts for my car :?
and well the mini is CVT so no amounta mods u pelt at it will make it competitive in ESP...

User avatar
MadCrix
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 3502
Joined: March 22nd, 2004, 2:46 pm
Location: Where your ride simply cannot go
Contact:

Postby MadCrix » February 17th, 2010, 2:03 pm

further more rudy changed to gas shocks 2 years now lol

User avatar
MadCrix
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 3502
Joined: March 22nd, 2004, 2:46 pm
Location: Where your ride simply cannot go
Contact:

Postby MadCrix » February 17th, 2010, 2:04 pm

swap to manual gearbox is a mod :pokes: :pokes: :pokes:

User avatar
MG Man
2NRholic
Posts: 20613
Joined: May 1st, 2003, 1:31 pm
Location: trying to make a cinco-moti sandwich

Postby MG Man » February 17th, 2010, 2:07 pm

not worth the expense

User avatar
wagonrunner
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 12617
Joined: May 18th, 2004, 9:38 am
Location: Distancing myself from those who want to raid the barn but eh want to plant the corn.
Contact:

Postby wagonrunner » February 17th, 2010, 2:43 pm

MadCrix wrote:swap to manual gearbox is a mod :pokes: :pokes: :pokes:

how many points is that? or is the difference not seen on the dyno? :|

User avatar
MadCrix
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 3502
Joined: March 22nd, 2004, 2:46 pm
Location: Where your ride simply cannot go
Contact:

Postby MadCrix » February 17th, 2010, 2:49 pm

that mod will not attract a penalty as we would catch the power gained on teh dyno and hence the new P/W

User avatar
Dave-ve
Trinituner Peong
Posts: 442
Joined: October 31st, 2006, 4:17 pm

Postby Dave-ve » February 19th, 2010, 10:08 pm

is a phantom grip considered to be an LSD? :oops:

User avatar
MadCrix
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 3502
Joined: March 22nd, 2004, 2:46 pm
Location: Where your ride simply cannot go
Contact:

Postby MadCrix » February 19th, 2010, 10:25 pm

yes

User avatar
honda hoe
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8166
Joined: May 31st, 2006, 11:39 am
Location: polishing my "Most Banned In '07" trophy

Postby honda hoe » February 20th, 2010, 10:26 am

:? :? :?

User avatar
X2
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8625
Joined: April 18th, 2003, 1:54 pm
Location: 3 stories above the Batcave...

Postby X2 » March 10th, 2010, 11:15 pm

Question...

if two cars of same model, but different trim, making the same power are in the same class.... one model may have a feature like a sway bar coming as stock, whereas the lower trim car gets a penalty point for putting even an oem bar on the car... I don't see this as a fair assessment. I would say that a car be rated as 'oem' if the suspension modification duplicates the parts of the highest trim level of available model.

ie... stock sway bar is 17mm.... then adding a 17mm sway to a lower model should not attract a penalty.

evo8u
Riding on 13's
Posts: 13
Joined: March 11th, 2010, 3:45 pm

Postby evo8u » March 11th, 2010, 3:48 pm

when and where is next solodex ?

User avatar
X2
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8625
Joined: April 18th, 2003, 1:54 pm
Location: 3 stories above the Batcave...

Postby X2 » March 12th, 2010, 12:43 am

Query-

Ok, the dyno readouts and p/w numbers are supposed to qualify engine mods. Fair enough.

However Vtec and boost controller attract a point since they can alter power delivery characteristics, but then so do almost anything you change on a turbo car. New manifold, downpipes, wastegates may not only add more power, but can affect drivability.

Question is... should these items even be a point after using p/w ?

Should the cars also be classed by the weight of the vehicle & driver ? I dunno about ya'll but I'm nowhere near 150lbs.

User avatar
MadCrix
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 3502
Joined: March 22nd, 2004, 2:46 pm
Location: Where your ride simply cannot go
Contact:

Postby MadCrix » March 12th, 2010, 8:51 am

The intercooler for example can alter the power delivery to a point, but we all know an intercooler can only help so much on a dyno. when u drive at dex the air flowing through it is greater and will add to the power a car is putting down.

User avatar
DEVI
2NR phototakerouter
Posts: 1761
Joined: July 28th, 2005, 2:07 am

Postby DEVI » March 12th, 2010, 9:04 am

X2, your pt about the weight of the vehicle should be car and driver is very valid.....other race clubs weigh the cars/karts immediately after a race....we dont have the manpower or scales to do this.....until we do , it will have to remain as is....incentive to lose some weight :lol:

User avatar
pete
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 9064
Joined: April 18th, 2003, 1:19 pm
Location: Cruisin around in da GTi
Contact:

Postby pete » March 12th, 2010, 1:55 pm

X2 wrote:Question...

if two cars of same model, but different trim, making the same power are in the same class.... one model may have a feature like a sway bar coming as stock, whereas the lower trim car gets a penalty point for putting even an oem bar on the car... I don't see this as a fair assessment. I would say that a car be rated as 'oem' if the suspension modification duplicates the parts of the highest trim level of available model.

ie... stock sway bar is 17mm.... then adding a 17mm sway to a lower model should not attract a penalty.


Just do like me and leave your car stock.

Valid argument though. Suppose someone has say, a civic hatch that came without the sway bar, changes everything to SIR suspension, engine etc. Does it attract the penalty of the sway bar?

User avatar
X2
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8625
Joined: April 18th, 2003, 1:54 pm
Location: 3 stories above the Batcave...

Postby X2 » March 12th, 2010, 3:35 pm

Devi, no need to weigh at each event, but the driver's actual weight should be taken into account, not an average weight.... it's not like we are changing drivers throughout the year.

Intercoolers don't show results on a dyno but do on the street ? Ok... follow that reasoning and I guarantee you that running a car with OPEN HOOD on a dyno will result in better power numbers than the car gets on the street with the hood closed and heat from the asphalt affecting ambient temps. The logic is flawed.

Even vtec controllers typically result in power loss when vtec crossover is altered on lightly modified vehicles.

Upgraded wastegates and downpipes, exhaust manifolds ALL can drastically affect power delivery on or off the dyno. If the rules say that dyno figures will account for all power modifications, then why are exceptions being made ? The p/w ratio method of preliminary classification has too wide of a range to be 'tweaked' for specific modifications.

It is also highly unfair to class say a Civic Type R making 170whp with a DX base model EK with a engine swap making 170whp and then serve up penatly points to the DX for bolting up a strut bar and sway bar just so it could be competitive with a car in it's own class. If this were drag racing, the two cars would be more or less the same, but it's not.

User avatar
Ignorant Ignis
punchin NOS
Posts: 4014
Joined: August 6th, 2003, 5:23 pm
Contact:

Re: SOLODEX RULES 2010

Postby Ignorant Ignis » July 14th, 2010, 4:13 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^yeh..... u doh return calls

User avatar
ingalook
3NE 2NR Power Seller
Posts: 1252
Joined: April 11th, 2006, 1:51 pm
Location: Pakaskas

Re:

Postby ingalook » August 4th, 2010, 9:07 pm

X2 wrote:Devi, no need to weigh at each event, but the driver's actual weight should be taken into account, not an average weight.... it's not like we are changing drivers throughout the year.

Intercoolers don't show results on a dyno but do on the street ? Ok... follow that reasoning and I guarantee you that running a car with OPEN HOOD on a dyno will result in better power numbers than the car gets on the street with the hood closed and heat from the asphalt affecting ambient temps. The logic is flawed.

Even vtec controllers typically result in power loss when vtec crossover is altered on lightly modified vehicles.

Upgraded wastegates and downpipes, exhaust manifolds ALL can drastically affect power delivery on or off the dyno. If the rules say that dyno figures will account for all power modifications, then why are exceptions being made ? The p/w ratio method of preliminary classification has too wide of a range to be 'tweaked' for specific modifications.

It is also highly unfair to class say a Civic Type R making 170whp with a DX base model EK with a engine swap making 170whp and then serve up penatly points to the DX for bolting up a strut bar and sway bar just so it could be competitive with a car in it's own class. If this were drag racing, the two cars would be more or less the same, but it's not.



Yup... a Type-r will be in ESP... but if you take a 100hp non-SiR car, and bolt on SiR suspension parts and a vtec controller you will find your arse fighting up in SS

Not really fair methinks... fair would be penalizing the cars whether-or-not it came from the factory... that way the Type-r will be in SS as well (where it belongs)

This would be less complicated if these factory racers like the type-r were not readily available in TnT... perhaps those rules work for the US... but we shouldn't take everything wholesale from them since the cars we can get a hold of are VERY different

Your current point system also discourages the "poor-men" from entering the sport... why would i try to modify my lil ole-car, make it safer/faster/better if you are going to penalize me for it?

At the same time now, a "rich-boy" who could have afforded to buy a type-r will be laughing as i try to modify my car to be competitive and get put into a higher class while all those parts came stock on his vehicle

User avatar
mazdamaniac
Trinituner Peong
Posts: 425
Joined: March 25th, 2008, 9:00 pm
Location: Gasparillo

Re: Re:

Postby mazdamaniac » August 5th, 2010, 6:53 am

Ingalook wrote wrote:Yup... a Type-r will be in ESP... but if you take a 100hp non-SiR car, and bolt on SiR suspension parts and a vtec controller you will find your arse fighting up in SS

Your current point system also discourages the "poor-men" from entering the sport... why would i try to modify my lil ole-car, make it safer/faster/better if you are going to penalize me for it?

At the same time now, a "rich-boy" who could have afforded to buy a type-r will be laughing as i try to modify my car to be competitive and get put into a higher class while all those parts came stock on his vehicle



Daz all because Hondas are nogood anyway. Yuh doh see that problem with de Mazda.
Instead ah throwin away money behind the honda, just do like MG Man and invest yuh cash in buying driver skill instead. Although in his case tons of cash only bought marginal self improvement. But is still better value for money than fixin ah honda.

But seriously if yuh "modify ah lil ole-car, make it safer/faster/better" then it isnt the same ole-car again, is it. Its in reality a much safer, faster and better car and it will not be fair to run it against stock cars.

Bottom line, self improvement 80%, car mods 20% (fixin hondas 1% or vurtually impossible)

User avatar
MG Man
2NRholic
Posts: 20613
Joined: May 1st, 2003, 1:31 pm
Location: trying to make a cinco-moti sandwich

Re: SOLODEX RULES 2010

Postby MG Man » August 5th, 2010, 8:50 am

I did not pay cash for my driver skil eh
a few dozen julie mango and a trained ferret were part of the transaction...

User avatar
ingalook
3NE 2NR Power Seller
Posts: 1252
Joined: April 11th, 2006, 1:51 pm
Location: Pakaskas

Re: SOLODEX RULES 2010

Postby ingalook » August 5th, 2010, 10:05 am

I know a modified car should not run with unmodified cars... but my point is a FACTORY RACER should not run with stock cars either

Lemme edumacate yuh... additions to a Type-R not found on any other "regular" Hondas:

Seam welded Cassis
Re-enforcerced Rear subframe
Rear lower and upper tie bars
Helical LSD
Lower gear ratio
Weight reduction
Lower/stiffer springs
22mm rear sway bar (SiR is 13mm... other civics have none)
Bigger throttle body
End-weights balanced from the factory
Different ECU tuning
Faster steering ratio
About 25 more hp than an SiR
etc etc etc...

How much points you will add if you put all that on a car yourself?

User avatar
mazdamaniac
Trinituner Peong
Posts: 425
Joined: March 25th, 2008, 9:00 pm
Location: Gasparillo

Re: SOLODEX RULES 2010

Postby mazdamaniac » August 5th, 2010, 11:41 am

Ingalook, ah hear what yuh sayin but, what is dex really about, isnt it about driver skill development primarily. The rules for the cars will keep getting refined over time but there will always be exceptions weather it be high cost Type R or the low self image yellow accented swift. That said, if you bought a type R it would not help yuh in ESP. The sound beatin that we got from Larry's tricked out yellow frankmonster only reinforces the point as Devi beat his time and his car with driver skill and an underpowered oxy

User avatar
ingalook
3NE 2NR Power Seller
Posts: 1252
Joined: April 11th, 2006, 1:51 pm
Location: Pakaskas

Re: SOLODEX RULES 2010

Postby ingalook » August 5th, 2010, 12:27 pm

^^^ Nah... dem Zuki have obea in it

Zuki should get automatic class bump!

User avatar
pete
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 9064
Joined: April 18th, 2003, 1:19 pm
Location: Cruisin around in da GTi
Contact:

Re: SOLODEX RULES 2010

Postby pete » August 13th, 2010, 11:04 am

ingalook wrote:I know a modified car should not run with unmodified cars... but my point is a FACTORY RACER should not run with stock cars either

Lemme edumacate yuh... additions to a Type-R not found on any other "regular" Hondas:

Seam welded Cassis
Re-enforcerced Rear subframe
Rear lower and upper tie bars
Helical LSD
Lower gear ratio
Weight reduction
Lower/stiffer springs
22mm rear sway bar (SiR is 13mm... other civics have none)
Bigger throttle body
End-weights balanced from the factory
Different ECU tuning
Faster steering ratio
About 25 more hp than an SiR
etc etc etc...

How much points you will add if you put all that on a car yourself?


From that all I see is
Lower Gear Ratio - 3 points
Rear Sway Bar - 2 points
Added OEM LSD - 2 points
Apart from those, if it's lighter and has more power it may be in a higher class but as it stands that's 7 additional points so would be in one higher class.

The question I have is, if a car installed these things and was penalised, shouldn't a car that came with them ALSO be penalised? Same with all the other modifications that incur penalties. Each of the "modifications" enhance the way the car drives. Don't they also enhance the cars that come with them stock?

User avatar
chris1388
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1607
Joined: January 24th, 2009, 9:38 pm
Location: Arima
Contact:

Re: SOLODEX RULES 2010

Postby chris1388 » August 13th, 2010, 7:41 pm

^^I want to know the same thing, from what ingalook say how a type R civic would be in ESP thats just insane :s, he sure bout dat ? I agree with what pete says

User avatar
pete
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 9064
Joined: April 18th, 2003, 1:19 pm
Location: Cruisin around in da GTi
Contact:

Re: SOLODEX RULES 2010

Postby pete » August 13th, 2010, 7:59 pm

Previously the EK9 was put in SS class.

With a weight of roughly 2550lbs incl diver and 182 hp tho.. it has a P/W ratio of 14 and would be in ESP.

User avatar
crazybalhead
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10671
Joined: April 21st, 2003, 9:41 am

Re: SOLODEX RULES 2010

Postby crazybalhead » September 1st, 2010, 2:21 pm

What's the treadwear rule? 140 or 180???

Advertisement

Return to “CARS - Autocross (Solodex)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest