TriniTuner.com  |  Latest Event:  

Forums

Oil catch cans ... upgraded

Everything Suzuki - Swift GTi and Ignis Sport to Grand Vitara and XL7

Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods

User avatar
rado
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 694
Joined: July 7th, 2004, 8:53 am
Location: Arouca

Oil catch cans ... upgraded

Postby rado » January 12th, 2011, 6:44 pm

Take a close look at this picture. This is a shot of a SSS intake manifold with the TB removed. It is really difficult to capture the picture, but what do you see collecting in the bottom of the manifold???


Image
Last edited by rado on April 6th, 2012, 2:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Advertisement
User avatar
Big Z
3NE 2NR Power Seller
Posts: 2259
Joined: August 11th, 2004, 9:58 pm
Location: 734-7669 Amsoil, Kendall, Luberfiner, Redline, Royal Purple, Valvoline, Fuel Injector Cleaning
Contact:

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea??

Postby Big Z » January 12th, 2011, 9:13 pm

Its really hard to see anything down there! So, tell us what's hiding..
Was doing some research last night... Most put the catch can on the PCV line.
Makes sense as the vacuum in the manifold acts on the PCV valve, while minimal vacuum acts on the other vent line.

User avatar
rado
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 694
Joined: July 7th, 2004, 8:53 am
Location: Arouca

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea??

Postby rado » January 13th, 2011, 7:27 am

let's see if this one is better.....

I put a red line around the oil pool

Image

User avatar
rado
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 694
Joined: July 7th, 2004, 8:53 am
Location: Arouca

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea??

Postby rado » January 13th, 2011, 7:36 am

Here's the thing,

Unknown to may of us, the emmisions control system feeds two sources of oil contaminated air into the intake manifold. One under vaccum.... the PCV and the other under atmospheric pressure.... the crank case breather. They are on opposite sides of the cam cover.

Theory tells us that the oily vapor will be used up in combustion and the world will be a cleaner place, but in fact, the amount of oil is so significant that it will pool in the bottom if the intake manifold.

It is very very difficult to take this picture. I tried about 30 shots, but it shows some pooling already in my head which was freshly re-build just 2 months ago!

User avatar
Ignorant Ignis
punchin NOS
Posts: 4031
Joined: August 6th, 2003, 5:23 pm
Contact:

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea??

Postby Ignorant Ignis » January 13th, 2011, 9:31 am

Image
you can see the oil on the gasket on my ignis manifold

and this is with a filter on the breather line

User avatar
rado
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 694
Joined: July 7th, 2004, 8:53 am
Location: Arouca

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea??

Postby rado » January 13th, 2011, 11:37 am

^^ yup, it is a considerable amount of oil that gets in there!

Over filling the engine just makes it worse! I recently got a high quality catch can, but even that did not come with a baffle, to help condense the oil vapor before exiting the can.

My plans are to use the can on the PCV valve, then use a small filter on the crank case breather vent, on the oter side of the vent. I'm on my way to Car Boutique check out what breather filters they have.

User avatar
RB25-DET
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 129
Joined: April 3rd, 2009, 10:37 am
Contact:

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea??

Postby RB25-DET » January 13th, 2011, 7:15 pm

I recently got a high quality catch can, but even that did not come with a baffle, to help condense the oil vapor before exiting the can.



Rado the baffle you are talking about is it used to change the direction of the oily fumes inside of the catch can or for the fumes to hit it upon entering the can??
( oily fumes hits cold surface of baffle and condenses back into a liquid?)

I've seen a couple guys use steel wool inside the catch can to increse the surface area inside of it same principle and a protective mesh for the exit of the can so no steel wool gets inside the engine.

User avatar
rado
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 694
Joined: July 7th, 2004, 8:53 am
Location: Arouca

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea??

Postby rado » January 13th, 2011, 9:12 pm

^^ absoloutely right RB. You just want to cool the incomming vapor to promote condensation, and allow the oil to pool in the can rather than the manifold

I've seen several options for the baffle material including scotchbrite, and plastic scouring pads. but I like your idea of the mesh to keep the steel wool from getting into the engine.

I'll find an option that I feel safe with.

User avatar
pete
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 8895
Joined: April 18th, 2003, 1:19 pm
Location: Cruisin around in da GTi
Contact:

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea??

Postby pete » January 14th, 2011, 8:42 pm

What bad happens when oil gets into the engine through the intake?

User avatar
rado
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 694
Joined: July 7th, 2004, 8:53 am
Location: Arouca

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea??

Postby rado » January 15th, 2011, 9:18 am

pete wrote:What bad happens when oil gets into the engine through the intake?


check this out. This is from a 18 month old engine.
Image

At first I thoight it was the result of a over-rich condition, but now I know that the build up is due to the oil sludge that is fed into the manifold.

This buildup may not significantly affect air flow, but it does eventually work its way into the seat area and starts to compromise valve sealing. This in turn will affect compression pressures in the cylinders... thereby robing power, and can eventualy lead to overheating the valves.

Also, another key side effect is the reduction of fuel octane. The oil vapor reduces the effective octane level of the gas you use which is not good for power levels either.

Basically its all bad!

User avatar
Swifted
Sweet on this forum
Posts: 393
Joined: May 17th, 2008, 7:39 pm

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea??

Postby Swifted » January 15th, 2011, 10:08 am

Oil also dilutes Fuel Octane ...so, with our amazing Horse piss fuel, you can imagine what's happening to the power production ;-)

User avatar
chris1388
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1607
Joined: January 24th, 2009, 9:38 pm
Location: Arima
Contact:

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea??

Postby chris1388 » January 15th, 2011, 5:16 pm

i took off my intake manifold too and there was lots of oil around each plenum...i thought smt was wrong with my car :S

User avatar
RB25-DET
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 129
Joined: April 3rd, 2009, 10:37 am
Contact:

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea??

Postby RB25-DET » January 15th, 2011, 5:49 pm

Is seafoam safe to use on the sss? reason i'm asking is because of the special coating that exists on the insides of the sss intake manifold? ( does this coating really exist?)

User avatar
rado
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 694
Joined: July 7th, 2004, 8:53 am
Location: Arouca

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea??

Postby rado » January 15th, 2011, 6:52 pm

^^ first time I'm hearing about some special coating there. When I took mine down, the only thing coating the IM was oil!

User avatar
3stagevtec
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 9623
Joined: July 12th, 2006, 1:57 pm
Location: killing two stones with one bird...
Contact:

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby 3stagevtec » January 17th, 2011, 1:38 pm

Anyone sells good oil catch cans down here, or would it be better if I ship one in myself?

User avatar
rado
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 694
Joined: July 7th, 2004, 8:53 am
Location: Arouca

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby rado » January 18th, 2011, 7:24 am

Some local performance shops may have in stock from time to time. Garvin (GPS) is out of stock presently. Function wise, I dont think there is so much difference among the options, so, either choose by price, or choose based on the look you want. Either option is better than having none.

I got this one for USD $90 from Amazon..... which is a mid range price.
Image

I was expecting that it would come with an internal baffle, but it did not. However, it did come with a magnetic drail bolt :roll:, and a high quality hose. Some of the cheaper models have hoses that may not stand up to engine temps for long. Also the entire top can be removed so it is easy to insert your choice of baffle material.

Car boutique does have a selection of breather filters though, I suspect that Andy in Curepe (Quickbits) will also have the crankcase breathers.

In retrospect, I could have gotten a pair of cheap cans, upgraded the hoses, and used one for the breather vent, and one for the PCV vent. :?

User avatar
3stagevtec
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 9623
Joined: July 12th, 2006, 1:57 pm
Location: killing two stones with one bird...
Contact:

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby 3stagevtec » January 18th, 2011, 9:23 am

What do you think about this one?

http://www.amazon.com/PVC-Oil-Catch-Can-Silver/dp/B002P4SCZE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1295356606&sr=8-2

Image

Image

Product Features
-Two Chamber Design
-Billet Aluminum
Price: $119.99

Product Description
Our Oil Catch Cans are made of Billet Aluminum. The catch can is a two chamber design and comes with a changeable filter element for easy cleaning. High Performance engines all suffer from oil blow by into the intake manifold under hard driving conditions. The two chamber design helps trap the oil vapor, and separates it into the second chamber for safe keeping. The benefit is that you keep your manifold from getting all gummed up and robbing you of horsepower.

Seems better than the Mishimoto..

User avatar
3stagevtec
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 9623
Joined: July 12th, 2006, 1:57 pm
Location: killing two stones with one bird...
Contact:

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby 3stagevtec » January 18th, 2011, 9:27 am

^ the downside of that one is it does not have the oil level indicator.

I personally believe these oil catch cans will be of great benefit to older / high mileage engines..

User avatar
rado
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 694
Joined: July 7th, 2004, 8:53 am
Location: Arouca

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby rado » January 18th, 2011, 10:32 am

^^ for fucntionality, it seems better than the mishimoto. The oil level indicator is a minor feature IMHO. Just check every 3 months or oil change as required.

User avatar
Swifted
Sweet on this forum
Posts: 393
Joined: May 17th, 2008, 7:39 pm

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby Swifted » January 19th, 2011, 9:26 pm

A friend recently bought a catch can for his Civic, but realized that he couldn't fit it anywhere, so he is selling. It is the square type with 2 ports on the top and a level indicator. I have already put some steel wool in it too. If anyone is interested, you can PM me for his phone number.

User avatar
3stagevtec
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 9623
Joined: July 12th, 2006, 1:57 pm
Location: killing two stones with one bird...
Contact:

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby 3stagevtec » February 2nd, 2011, 11:36 pm

I'll let the pics do the talking.. This oil catch can is from Saikou Michi and contains an internal mesh to help better collect the oil particles. Will see what it collects after a week / month etc..

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

User avatar
Dave
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 13630
Joined: April 22nd, 2003, 8:07 am
Location: playing with above and below
Contact:

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby Dave » February 3rd, 2011, 9:13 am

I use a Saikou Michi and they and AGP are about the only 2 real known manufaturers to use metal strainers to ensure all the oil is drained to the bottom and only air return to the intake
My empty can b4 use to have the return line moisture with oil returning where Saikou Michi is bone dry.
Sight level is no real advantage unless you have no intention of emptying it often.
Over 4k km, I fill a baby bottle(4.5oz) with oil which is not even 1/3 of the saikou michi can so no real need for a sight level.

User avatar
3stagevtec
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 9623
Joined: July 12th, 2006, 1:57 pm
Location: killing two stones with one bird...
Contact:

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby 3stagevtec » February 4th, 2011, 4:56 pm

^ Actually, it's you who had recommended the Saikou Michi to me a while back in the Tech forum! It's only after I did some re-research I found the old post.. lol

Another benefit from SM is that they can build the OCC to meet almost any requirements you might have. You can also choose your own colour.. Candy blue just hit the spot for me..

User avatar
whizpig
Sweet on this forum
Posts: 313
Joined: February 4th, 2010, 6:05 am
Location: Arouca

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby whizpig » February 8th, 2011, 1:13 pm

ok i found a link where a guy is using a air compressor filter as an oil catch can
http://www.pbase.com/rsrock/oil_catch_can
that filter cost $12.69USD
and there are other air compressor filters that have oil removers attached
what allyuh think?

User avatar
aidan
12 pounds of Boost
Posts: 2223
Joined: August 26th, 2005, 2:09 am
Location: Saving the world.
Contact:

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby aidan » February 9th, 2011, 7:22 pm

3stagevtec wrote:I'll let the pics do the talking.. This oil catch can is from Saikou Michi and contains an internal mesh to help better collect the oil particles. Will see what it collects after a week / month etc..

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


Think i'll have to be doing this soon on my vitara too.

User avatar
rado
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 694
Joined: July 7th, 2004, 8:53 am
Location: Arouca

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby rado » February 11th, 2011, 9:48 pm

Here is my install...


Image

greasyspoon
Street 2NR
Posts: 42
Joined: November 16th, 2006, 10:37 pm
Location: Chaguanas

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby greasyspoon » February 20th, 2011, 9:15 am

Ok so i'm gonna look into getting that saikou michi can cuz I have been talking to the guy and it seems pretty easy to get one paypal and skybox makes it simple enough. Trying to see where is the best place to mount mine tho. Rado i see u have yurs stuck up in the back and i have no idea how u mounted it. That and he's asking whether I want 1/2" or 3/8" nipples the one on my car as 3/8's it looks like but it seems Rado u went to 1/2 dunno if thats significant or not.

User avatar
rado
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 694
Joined: July 7th, 2004, 8:53 am
Location: Arouca

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby rado » February 20th, 2011, 12:40 pm

greasyspoon wrote:Ok so i'm gonna look into getting that saikou michi can cuz I have been talking to the guy and it seems pretty easy to get one paypal and skybox makes it simple enough. Trying to see where is the best place to mount mine tho. Rado i see u have yurs stuck up in the back and i have no idea how u mounted it. That and he's asking whether I want 1/2" or 3/8" nipples the one on my car as 3/8's it looks like but it seems Rado u went to 1/2 dunno if thats significant or not.


Well GS, my catch can fittings are 1/2 inch but the engine fittings are smaller, so I used the larger hose with a short peice of the smaller hose (inside the larger one) as an adaptor to connect to the engine side.

I also changed the clear hose the unit came with since it was colapsing under vaccum. The black automotive hose is not as pretty, but holds up good under the hood :)

User avatar
rado
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 694
Joined: July 7th, 2004, 8:53 am
Location: Arouca

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby rado » February 20th, 2011, 12:42 pm

..heading to dex in a short while....

User avatar
RB25-DET
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 129
Joined: April 3rd, 2009, 10:37 am
Contact:

Re: Are oil catch cans a good idea? ABSOLUTELY!

Postby RB25-DET » May 17th, 2011, 12:24 pm

Where can i get a good quality clear braided hose for the catch can system that would'nt collapse under engine vacuum?, i bought a clear braided piece from Lotec that had temperature ratings and stuff written on it and it still collapsed??

Advertisement

Return to “SUZUKI”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests