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Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

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Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby stikid09 » January 24th, 2018, 8:58 pm

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Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant
Date:
Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - 10:15

Caribbean Nitrogen Company (CNC) today announced that it has been forced to immediately shut down its ammonia plant on the Point Lisas Industrial Estate in Trinidad.

The company says the shutdown is a result of action taken by the National Gas Company of Trinidad and Tobago (NGC) to cut off gas supply to the plant.

Commenting on the plant shutdown, Jerome Dookie, CEO of CNC, said: “We had no choice but to shut down the plant to ensure the well-being of our people and protect our investment. Unfortunately, this action by NGC will negatively affect the future of our 110 loyal workers”.

It is also estimated that as many as 300 additional workers indirectly connected to the operations will also be affected.

Dookie added; “The situation is highly regrettable given that CNC has been in a dialogue with The National Gas Company for almost a year. CNC had even accepted multiple interim extensions of our gas supply, until yesterday, at a detrimental cost to itself. These extensions were implemented to facilitate further discussions between CNC and NGC to agree on the terms of a long-term gas supply contract. The NGC has, however, been unresponsive to the many concessions CNC has made, and unrealistic as to the global forces affecting not only CNC’s exports, but Trinidad’s exports of ammonia, which must compete in the international marketplace. The NGC is unfortunately making Trinidad the world’s marginal producer of ammonia with its uneconomical pricing policies.”

The CNC CEO also referred to the Government’s intervention in the matter.

“We acknowledge the efforts of the Government to assist in the resolution of this matter and the key role that it plays in maintaining the stability and sustainability of this vital sector in the National interest. Our sincere hope is that the Government understands our obligation to protect the interests of our employees, our partners, our customers and our shareholders,” he said.

Dookie concluded: “The company regrets the negative impact the shutdown will have on everyone involved. While we remain committed to resolving all outstanding issues with The National Gas Company, we will also continue to explore all available options to protect our interests.”

Sources: http://www.cnc3.co.tt/press-release/ove ... onia-plant

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby airuma » January 24th, 2018, 10:01 pm

The years of "mismanagement" is taking a toll on our Government and by extension our population! Never-the-less.... Great is the.....

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby skylinechild » January 24th, 2018, 11:57 pm

i dont quite understand.... is it that CNC has to pay for the gas from NGC....and they cannot pay for the gas from NGC...therefore NGC cut them off.....and CNC saying because of their (NGC) actions they blaming them ???

someone correct me if i goin wrong...

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby vaiostation » January 25th, 2018, 12:12 am

So CNC dropping all the blame on NGC, just like when de germz blame NGC for the methanol plants shutting down.
It have a lot more that goes on behind the scenes. NGC just don't wake up one day an close a valve and say F everybody...

But leave it to cnc3 to tell only one side of the story. Similar to what they do with petrotrin...
Journalistic integrity at its finest...

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby zoom rader » January 25th, 2018, 3:44 am

This smells of 1%

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby jhonnieblue » January 25th, 2018, 4:12 am

No it's simple really. A lot of plants on the estate up for negotiation of renewal of gas contracts. Cnc is one of them that was operating on short term gas contracts. Ngc is pushing for higher gas prices that would make commodities uncompetitive on the international market compared to areas that have low cost shale gas. Really it's about the cost of gas that these companies need to operate at and then given Daily contracted quantities that could be supplied. It seem NGC favors ga to lng over downstream and as such cnc became another victim. m1 and m2 suffer the same fate already. Prob more plants to come as gas reserves fall and upstream companies esp bp favors their investments of Atlantic to get preferred gas supply.

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby zoom rader » January 25th, 2018, 4:32 am

jhonnieblue wrote:No it's simple really. A lot of plants on the estate up for negotiation of renewal of gas contracts. Cnc is one of them that was operating on short term gas contracts. Ngc is pushing for higher gas prices that would make commodities uncompetitive on the international market compared to areas that have low cost shale gas. Really it's about the cost of gas that these companies need to operate at and then given Daily contracted quantities that could be supplied. It seem NGC favors ga to lng over downstream and as such cnc became another victim. m1 and m2 suffer the same fate already. Prob more plants to come as gas reserves fall and upstream companies esp bp favors their investments of Atlantic to get preferred gas supply.
This sounds about right. It's all about bussiness , the downstreamers crying foul play and using it's employees to get away with cheap gas.

Can't blame pnm here for getting better prices. It's time these bussiness start paying the right prices. Big bussines want globalisation then start dealing with world prices . These companies already get away with tax breaks.
They pay workers in TT but sell in US.

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby jhonnieblue » January 25th, 2018, 4:45 am

Not really. The thing is wage bill account for a certain percentage and so does NG. Ngc wants to sell for a higher price that isn't competitive in the global market. Most big companies wouldn't make anything when you factor in shipping cost etc an global commodity prices. It's way to shut down negotiations and move you're plant. It works out better for BP because their asset now gets lng production. Trinidad however does not benefit from this. We only benefit from one train as a country and shipments are dependent on demand.
The govt had tried to sway negotiations to allow for a split but long term supply stability and price was key factors for cnc not willing to accept ngc offer.
Also on the point of workers etc. Trinidad plants run on the higher end of wage bill and worker numbers compared to international plants. As said before our worker aren't the best even in privatized institutions.
These companies view assets as transferable and could easily move to a region with low and more stable gas prices and recoupe that project cost in a few short years.

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby sMASH » January 25th, 2018, 6:43 am

our wages in the engergy sector,,, at least for grunts, not for managers, are like quarter to half of what the other guys who moved away to other countries, like arabian peninsula, australia and america.
and apart from petrotrin, the locals work and work hard, generally. some people may be slackers, but for the most part, they do what they are paid to do, and many go above and beyond.

that is as far as my personal experience would afford.

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby dineshb316 » January 25th, 2018, 8:22 am

sMASH wrote:our wages in the engergy sector,,, at least for grunts, not for managers, are like quarter to half of what the other guys who moved away to other countries, like arabian peninsula, australia and america.
and apart from petrotrin, the locals work and work hard, generally. some people may be slackers, but for the most part, they do what they are paid to do, and many go above and beyond.

that is as far as my personal experience would afford.


this is correct wrt to wages. These operators are demanding discounts from the service companies with the threat of losing the contract. Service companies are trying to maintain their market share and are giving in to the discounts. This then leads to the need to reduce the operating costs of the service companies in order to keep the shareholders happy with dividends.

The easiest way to reduce operating cost for most via personnel RIF and salary cuts.

During the peak times these operators were making money but not as much as they should have because they were running high operating costs . These market gurus from each company see a very long recovery and that prices will never recover to the peak times.

So the companies have wised up and want to maximize profits no matter the market.

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby vct17inch » January 25th, 2018, 8:49 am

vaiostation wrote:So CNC dropping all the blame on NGC, just like when de germz blame NGC for the methanol plants shutting down.
It have a lot more that goes on behind the scenes. NGC just don't wake up one day an close a valve and say F everybody...

But leave it to cnc3 to tell only one side of the story. Similar to what they do with petrotrin...
Journalistic integrity at its finest...
Accurate.

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby pete » January 25th, 2018, 9:41 am

Price that LNG is paying is the same as what NGC wants to charge the plants?

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby airuma » January 25th, 2018, 11:28 am

vct17inch wrote:
vaiostation wrote:So CNC dropping all the blame on NGC, just like when de germz blame NGC for the methanol plants shutting down.
It have a lot more that goes on behind the scenes. NGC just don't wake up one day an close a valve and say F everybody...

But leave it to cnc3 to tell only one side of the story. Similar to what they do with petrotrin...
Journalistic integrity at its finest...
Accurate.

But Gerry Brooks was on CNC3 this morning..... he could have given a little more detail about the research that they did IMHO. He mentioned a loss of 2.4 billion (iirc) for NGC if they were to agree to CNC's price which begs the question, how much did they loose so far due to the extensions?
Eitherway, this could be a win-win scenario for both NGC and CNC.

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby Miktay » January 25th, 2018, 12:28 pm

Allyuh ever wonder why all those forin plants in Pt. Lisas are there? I mean they could operate anywhere in teh world with cheap gas. Why T&T?

One thing iz relative stability of the gubbament. But the main reason Iz cuz of the gas. Cheap cheap gas. The gas contracts are in most cases a T&T state secret.

So the minute NGC raise the prices it no longer becomes economical to operate in sweet T&T.

Hence the exodus.

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby toyolink » January 25th, 2018, 5:52 pm

Now is a terrible time to negotiate new gas contracts.
Deep water gas not cheap.
Global market prices are depressed.
We have a supply shortage.
We have gas sales contracts which are expiring in 'bunch'.
Many plants have paid for themselves and are now aged making 'moth-balling' no big thing.
The kind of creative thinking required to put us back on the energy map better be in-place.

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby De Dragon » January 25th, 2018, 6:21 pm

Miktay wrote:Allyuh ever wonder why all those forin plants in Pt. Lisas are there? I mean they could operate anywhere in teh world with cheap gas. Why T&T?

One thing iz relative stability of the gubbament. But the main reason Iz cuz of the gas. Cheap cheap gas. The gas contracts are in most cases a T&T state secret.

So the minute NGC raise the prices it no longer becomes economical to operate in sweet T&T.

Hence the exodus.

The gas holidays for most of these plants are also expired/expiring. NGC holding out for higher gas prices but IPSL linked companies under the new German leadership is playing hardball.

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby Miktay » January 25th, 2018, 6:29 pm

Reading this am at a loss to understand Gubbament strategy.

'One' can only assume they playing cobo to ketch dead dog.

Gerry Brooks, Chairman, The National Gas Company of Trinidad and Tobago (NGC): Interview

How is the Natural Gas Master Plan 2014-24 significant for the future of T&T’s energy sector?

GERRY BROOKS: In the context of a rapidly changing global energy landscape, domestic gas production shortfalls and major upstream and downstream agreements due for renewal in the next three years, the emergence of the master plan is timely. The plan takes a fresh look at the trend lines around domestic gas availability, allocation between local consumption and exports, netbacks to the country and downstream development. T&T’s annual gas demand is currently around 4.2bn standard cu feet (scf); 1.7bn-1.8bn scf is consumed domestically and the balance is exported. With production shortfalls during the past five years, combined with depleting reservoirs, a project like BP T&T’s Juniper is significant but, by itself, will not allow us to significantly shift our production curve.

Within the context of the master plan, the industry is looking at our upstream work programme to make sure the exploration and drilling activity can meet and exceed T&T’s demand requirements over the next five to seven years. Cross-border gas development, deepwater drilling – which is projected to bring gas on-line by 2024 – and work around the country’s approximately 50 shallow-water marginal fields, will inevitably play a major role in this process.

What initiatives could improve the level of internationalisation in T&T’s gas industry?

BROOKS: The industry is more aggressively pursuing opportunities both regionally and globally to improve our investment portfolio and reduce earnings volatility. Regionally, our technical and pipeline capabilities can help jurisdictions like Guyana, Barbados and Suriname to monetise their resources, review their seismic programmes and put the right infrastructure in place. Moreover, we are looking at cross-border gas fields with Venezuela, including the Dragon Field and the whole Mariscal basin, Loran-Manatee, Kapok-Doran, and Manakin-Cocuina. T&T has recently formed technical and commercial working groups with Venezuela to guide us on the next steps. Dragon is estimated to have between 2.4trn scf and 4.3trn scf of gas. Because of the already concluded technical work, proximity to infrastructure and the will of the parties, we are working on a three-year horizon to develop the field. This could set the framework for monetisation of larger fields like Loran-Manatee.

T&T has also re-energised its interest in Ghana. Since 2010 Ghana’s energy sector has grown and has the potential to develop further with the right partnerships. There are several opportunities we have specifically identified. The first involves processing gas from their Jubilee, TEN Area and Offshore Cape Three Points fields. In addition, our companies are planning to partner on the maintenance and expansion of Ghana’s only gas processing facility in Atuabo, while looking at the introduction of a cryogenic facility to improve its efficiency. A second possible partnership involves the construction of a 275-km pipeline taking gas from Takoradi to Tema.

Are there opportunities to develop new businesses within the national gas value chain?

BROOKS: NGC is actively supporting exploration and production developments and is itself prepared to expand its upstream business to secure and grow the local natural gas industry.

Through the National Energy Corporation of Trinidad and Tobago (National Energy), T&T is exploring downstream ventures that can replicate the success stories of methanol and ammonia. Beyond our recent investments in dimethyl ether, for instance, we are now looking at dimethyl carbonate. Other key downstream areas that National Energy is considering are plastics and aluminium, as well as alternative energy projects. To this end, different models of foreign direct investment participation can be explored.


https://oxfordbusinessgroup.com/intervi ... tobago-ngc

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby The_Honourable » January 26th, 2018, 1:57 am

Should NGC have compromised more before shutting off CNC's supply?


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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby sMASH » January 26th, 2018, 4:53 am

cnc did a giant one month turn-around last year....

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby zoom rader » January 26th, 2018, 5:31 am

Well this situation the government is looking for more money and CNC looking for a cheap deal .

CNC is a bunch of fvckers to use workers as pawns . Workers are already not paid on the world scale.

In this case I support the government

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby vaiostation » January 26th, 2018, 7:08 am

Workers are always pawns when it comes to IPSL...

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby Zetski » January 26th, 2018, 7:16 am

zoom rader wrote:Well this situation the government is looking for more money and CNC looking for a cheap deal .

CNC is a bunch of fvckers to use workers as pawns . Workers are already not paid on the world scale.

In this case I support the government

:shock:

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby Dizzy28 » January 26th, 2018, 9:47 am

zoom rader wrote:Well this situation the government is looking for more money and CNC looking for a cheap deal .

CNC is a bunch of fvckers to use workers as pawns . Workers are already not paid on the world scale.

In this case I support the government


Why should workers be paid the same as globally?

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby Allergic2BunnyEars » January 26th, 2018, 9:54 am

Dizzy28 wrote:
zoom rader wrote:Well this situation the government is looking for more money and CNC looking for a cheap deal .

CNC is a bunch of fvckers to use workers as pawns . Workers are already not paid on the world scale.

In this case I support the government


Why should workers be paid the same as globally?


Why should they not be paid the same as globally?

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby Dizzy28 » January 26th, 2018, 9:56 am

Because part of the unique value prop of Trinidad apart from has gas price would be labour cost in relation to countries with higher labour costs.

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby Allergic2BunnyEars » January 26th, 2018, 10:03 am

Dizzy28 wrote:Because part of the unique value prop of Trinidad apart from has gas price would be labour cost in relation to countries with higher labour costs.


What makes the labour cost lower here?

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby Redman » January 26th, 2018, 10:14 am

Allergic2BunnyEars wrote:
Dizzy28 wrote:Because part of the unique value prop of Trinidad apart from has gas price would be labour cost in relation to countries with higher labour costs.


What makes the labour cost lower here?
Screen Shot 2018-01-26 at 10.11.56 AM.png

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby teems1 » January 26th, 2018, 10:28 am

Allergic2BunnyEars wrote:
Dizzy28 wrote:
zoom rader wrote:Well this situation the government is looking for more money and CNC looking for a cheap deal .

CNC is a bunch of fvckers to use workers as pawns . Workers are already not paid on the world scale.

In this case I support the government


Why should workers be paid the same as globally?


Why should they not be paid the same as globally?


Because current location and foreign exchange makes a profound difference in the quality if life. The cost of a basket of goods is far cheaper in developing countries.

You would struggle to survive on a 60K USD salary in NYC, but would live like a king in India or Bangladesh.

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby Miktay » January 26th, 2018, 10:46 am

Iz thiz just bidnezz or personal?

Caribbean Nitrogen Company (CNC) which has stopped operations after the National Gas Company (NGC) cut off its gas supply due to contractual issues, is lashing out against NGC's chairman Gerry Brooks, accusing him of heavy-handed tactics towards them.

In a statement issued Thursday afternoon, CNC's Chief Executive Officer, Jerome Dookie, accuses Brooks of negatively affecting the livelihoods of over 400 workers.

The following is CNC's statement.

"In response to recent claims about National Gas Company of Trinidad and Tobago (NGC) margins and profits from Chairman Gerry Brooks, Caribbean Nitrogen Company (CNC) has called for an independent auditor to examine the relationship between the two companies and produce an unbiased picture of the value chain in the interest of all stakeholders.

“It’s time for the NGC to be transparent and stop hiding behind vague statements that don’t have any basis in reality,” said Jerome Dookie, CEO of CNC.

“We do not agree with Mr. Brooks’ position and completely reject his statements that accuse CNC of having unreasonable expectations, double digit returns and the potential for billions of dollars of losses for the NGC.”

“The NGC continues to make misleading statements to the people of Trinidad and Tobago about its actions and its finances claiming that it is not prepared to be subject to independent scrutiny. Even though NGC is in effect owned by the people of Trinidad and Tobago, Mr. Brooks’ precipitously heavy-handed tactics have just negatively affected the livelihood of more than 400 people, thereby threatening to wreak further havoc on the economy of the country”.

CNC said it would be willing to would work with Poten Partners or another third party and subject their company to an independent audit to show the relative returns each member of the value chain is earning. CNC believes that downstream companies such as themselves have always had the lowest returns on equity, and therefore NGC’s benefit is far more than they claim from their high prices, certainly significantly above international pricing for a gas transport pipeline company.

Contrary to popular belief, CNC receives no subsidies from NGC or the government, and in fact pays a premium over other providers in North America. The company is only looking for a fair rate that allows it to remain competitive in the market, and executives say that higher rates mean less money to invest back into the local economy.

“How can you invite us to the table and cut off our gas at the same time? We have been negotiating in good faith to resolve this situation, and we have already come to the table willing to compromise. We will not be taken advantage of and accept terms and pricing that would result in CNC running its operations for a disproportionate part of an agreement at a significant loss,” said Mr. Dookie."

http://www.cnc3.co.tt/press-release/cnc ... onia-plant

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Re: Over 400 jobs impacted as Caribbean Nitrogen Company shuts down Point Lisas ammonia plant

Postby vaiostation » January 26th, 2018, 11:34 am

Didn't Proman basically cause all this on themeselves when the took over the methanol plants by "under handed" means?

They basically want to undercut the country.
Wasn't it last year Proman wanted to bypass NGC and and use their own gas and just wanted to give NGC a transport fee?
Imagine if that did in fact happen and practically every other plant followed suit.
What would have happened to the country in the long term?

Plus I don't think people understand that Proman basically trying to say Fuk-U to the government and country...
Just like what they do to their workers.

Judging by the way workers are treated by this shareholder, if it was profitable for them to scrap down their plants and send it to the US they would have started doing it already.
But they most likely know that the money they would be saving in cheap gas in the US, they would spend a significant amount in wages. Unlike the crap they pay people here.

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