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The_Honourable wrote:Energy minister urges public to ‘not say much’ on refinery deal
"We did not give away anything and we did not favour anybody."
This was the point made by Minister of Energy Franklin Khan as he addressed the recent national conservations surrounding the sale of the former Petrotrin Pointe-a-Pierre refinery.
At the official opening of the NP El Socorro service station, Khan took the opportunity to defend the process by which the government selected Patriotic Energies and Technologies Company Ltd (PETCL) as the preferred bidder for the refinery.
Highlighting the bidding process as an international one, conducted by a multidisciplinary team he said, "Patriotic through a transparent process has been determined to be the preferred bidder." Taking aim at critics who may be questioning PETCL's ability to properly finance the bid he said, "This is a process and we must take our time."
Saying that in the next several weeks the details of the proposal and process will start to come together, he cautioned the public saying, "These loose statements in the general public is a detriment to the process." As the public waits for the ongoing process to move along he said, "I urge the population to not say much" as he notes that it is in the public's interest that the refinery becomes operational again.
Source: https://newsday.co.tt/2019/09/25/energy ... nery-deal/
MG Man wrote:^^^the ppl who allegedly buss the company with their high wages are now going to run it at a profit....
sMASH wrote:Work-to-own refinery.
De Dragon wrote:MG Man wrote:^^^the ppl who allegedly buss the company with their high wages are now going to run it at a profit....
In B4 Joshie23............
Joshie23 wrote:De Dragon wrote:MG Man wrote:^^^the ppl who allegedly buss the company with their high wages are now going to run it at a profit....
In B4 Joshie23............
Hoss, I'm home, hugging up someone's daughter, and a man like me, is on the mind of you, another (?)man(?).
Kicks, yes.
You're probably still looking for a coping mechanism for that inferiority complex but this ain't it, chief.
The_Honourable wrote:Bharath: Refinery heading for catastrophe
THE Government’s proposed deal to sell the Pointe-a-Pierre refinery to an OWTU company is clearly a case of petty politicking which will end in catastrophe, former trade minister Vasant Bharath told Newsday yesterday.
Last Friday, Finance Minister Colm Imbert said the mothballed refinery will be sold for US$700 million, with a three year moratorium after which the OWTU firm, Patriotic, will have 10 years to make payments.
Bharath said, “I’m very passionate about it because of how much money this country has squandered in the past 50 years in shady deals that the population has had to swallow and it is the citizens who ultimately pay for it.”
He said the most recent issue was the unexplained cancellation of a US$72 million contract between the HDC and the China Gezhouba Group for high-rise public housing. “Even with this Petrotrin the country has had to swallow $13 billion worth of bad deals signed by previous regimes. With the World GTL and Ultra Low Sulphur Project the country has had to swallow it and nobody has been held to account. We’ve just swept it under the carpet and on we go again.”
Bharath’s two concerns were the moratorium and Patriotic’s capability.
Firstly, he said Imbert had said Patriotic was the only bidder with an up front cash offer, namely US$700 million. Bharath said in normal accounting parlance, “up front” means a company is handing over cash at the start, so it was self-contradictory for Imbert to then grant a moratorium. Bharath also said a moratorium as defined can only be granted by a lender of money, which the Government was not, even as they had insinuated the funds would come from elsewhere. “Imbert believes the country is made of complete fools and whatever he says we must take at face value.”
Secondly, Bharath lamented Patriotic’s lack of any track record. “They came to the Government, almost cap in hand. They have no financial statements to present. They have no collateral against which they are making the offer to use as security. They have no cash on any balance sheet because they have no balance sheet, and no audited accounts. They have no due diligence that would have been performed on the organisation. They have no organisational structure to show who are the people who are going to run the organisation."
He said Patriotic doesn't even have a web-site.
“The OWTU has no track record of having done any business endeavour anywhere in the world.”
“So, on what basis are you granting these people a golden handshake, this huge asset, where this country’s energy security now lies in these people’s hands? It makes no sense.”
Bharath predicted TT heading to a catastrophic ending in this matter.
“And what happens then is that the Government walks away from it saying, ‘Well, we made a mistake. We gave them an opportunity. It didn’t work out.’
“But who suffers? Who suffers because this company don’t have the expertise and experience to do any of these things? Who is going to stand up when for example they make a boo-boo because they didn’t bring enough fuel in? And they are not storing enough fuel and the country runs out? Or they can’t get the refinery up and running?
“I suspect one of the incentives they are going to ask the Government for, because they clearly have no money, is funding to start up the refinery.”
He said a newspaper put this cost as US$1.4 billion. “Where’s that money coming from?”
He said the Government is relying on people to ultimately just write it off, as for the Malcolm Jones and World GTL issue.
“A lot of people told me to leave this alone because it’s about the union and people will say you are anti-worker. I am not anti-worker. I’ve absolutely no problem whatsoever with employee participation and sharing profits and endorse this, but to just give away something like this in haste knowing that what’s presented to you doesn’t make sense and doesn’t add up, it is just reckless and irresponsible and is pure politicking.
“I can just imagine Imbert in the background grinning, he’s gotten away with it. It sickens me that we can accept this nonsense in this country.”
Newsday asked how severe is the legal culpability for any lack of due diligence, that is, a check on a company’s financial soundness before contracting with them.
Bharath replied that it is very difficult to prove.
However he said the initial evaluation of 77 bidders had been done by an evaluation committee under Scotia Bank of Houston, Texas, but for the subsequent whittling down of bidders the exercise was taken out of Scotia and handed over to a group of local individuals whom he alleged “knew what they were going to do.” Bharath said the Government is calculating on the deal to win them the 2020 general election, with them ready to pick up the tab if the deal fails. “I’ve never felt so sickened by something. It is just in your face.”
Source: https://newsday.co.tt/2019/09/24/bharat ... tastrophe/
dogg wrote:This the same Barath who bought a Porsche with public funds for official use while minister?
Not that Barath right?The_Honourable wrote:Bharath: Refinery heading for catastrophe
THE Government’s proposed deal to sell the Pointe-a-Pierre refinery to an OWTU company is clearly a case of petty politicking which will end in catastrophe, former trade minister Vasant Bharath told Newsday yesterday.
Last Friday, Finance Minister Colm Imbert said the mothballed refinery will be sold for US$700 million, with a three year moratorium after which the OWTU firm, Patriotic, will have 10 years to make payments.
Bharath said, “I’m very passionate about it because of how much money this country has squandered in the past 50 years in shady deals that the population has had to swallow and it is the citizens who ultimately pay for it.”
He said the most recent issue was the unexplained cancellation of a US$72 million contract between the HDC and the China Gezhouba Group for high-rise public housing. “Even with this Petrotrin the country has had to swallow $13 billion worth of bad deals signed by previous regimes. With the World GTL and Ultra Low Sulphur Project the country has had to swallow it and nobody has been held to account. We’ve just swept it under the carpet and on we go again.”
Bharath’s two concerns were the moratorium and Patriotic’s capability.
Firstly, he said Imbert had said Patriotic was the only bidder with an up front cash offer, namely US$700 million. Bharath said in normal accounting parlance, “up front” means a company is handing over cash at the start, so it was self-contradictory for Imbert to then grant a moratorium. Bharath also said a moratorium as defined can only be granted by a lender of money, which the Government was not, even as they had insinuated the funds would come from elsewhere. “Imbert believes the country is made of complete fools and whatever he says we must take at face value.”
Secondly, Bharath lamented Patriotic’s lack of any track record. “They came to the Government, almost cap in hand. They have no financial statements to present. They have no collateral against which they are making the offer to use as security. They have no cash on any balance sheet because they have no balance sheet, and no audited accounts. They have no due diligence that would have been performed on the organisation. They have no organisational structure to show who are the people who are going to run the organisation."
He said Patriotic doesn't even have a web-site.
“The OWTU has no track record of having done any business endeavour anywhere in the world.”
“So, on what basis are you granting these people a golden handshake, this huge asset, where this country’s energy security now lies in these people’s hands? It makes no sense.”
Bharath predicted TT heading to a catastrophic ending in this matter.
“And what happens then is that the Government walks away from it saying, ‘Well, we made a mistake. We gave them an opportunity. It didn’t work out.’
“But who suffers? Who suffers because this company don’t have the expertise and experience to do any of these things? Who is going to stand up when for example they make a boo-boo because they didn’t bring enough fuel in? And they are not storing enough fuel and the country runs out? Or they can’t get the refinery up and running?
“I suspect one of the incentives they are going to ask the Government for, because they clearly have no money, is funding to start up the refinery.”
He said a newspaper put this cost as US$1.4 billion. “Where’s that money coming from?”
He said the Government is relying on people to ultimately just write it off, as for the Malcolm Jones and World GTL issue.
“A lot of people told me to leave this alone because it’s about the union and people will say you are anti-worker. I am not anti-worker. I’ve absolutely no problem whatsoever with employee participation and sharing profits and endorse this, but to just give away something like this in haste knowing that what’s presented to you doesn’t make sense and doesn’t add up, it is just reckless and irresponsible and is pure politicking.
“I can just imagine Imbert in the background grinning, he’s gotten away with it. It sickens me that we can accept this nonsense in this country.”
Newsday asked how severe is the legal culpability for any lack of due diligence, that is, a check on a company’s financial soundness before contracting with them.
Bharath replied that it is very difficult to prove.
However he said the initial evaluation of 77 bidders had been done by an evaluation committee under Scotia Bank of Houston, Texas, but for the subsequent whittling down of bidders the exercise was taken out of Scotia and handed over to a group of local individuals whom he alleged “knew what they were going to do.” Bharath said the Government is calculating on the deal to win them the 2020 general election, with them ready to pick up the tab if the deal fails. “I’ve never felt so sickened by something. It is just in your face.”
Source: https://newsday.co.tt/2019/09/24/bharat ... tastrophe/
Redman wrote:Bharath is being deliberately misleading-if not dishonest.
Asking all these questions-to sound intelligent-while knowing what the reality is.
How many of us had the money when we bought the first house?
Wasnt there a period after the agreement was made,where both sides had to prove up their claims-value and clear title on the sellers side-and money on the buyers side?Isn't this done before entering into any contract? I'm not aware of a bank giving you a loan or a mortgage and then asking you to prove you are good for it.
Same principles apply here.
Patriotic was formed for the purpose of buying the refinery.
They would have had to show that they were qualified in terms of being able to conclude the offer as they made.
The problem here is lack of transparency. Are we suddenly to accept the words of politicians without question? Were they really qualified? Were they the best option?
So the fact that its a SPV negates the issue of financials.
Please explain. I'm not too familiar with this and I can't see the benefit.
The financing is likely contingent on Patriotic winning the bid and then subject to certain conditions being met.
Again, transparency would be great here
The moratorium -while terribly communicated could be as a result of a limitation of funds-but that doesnt mean its bad.
Its likely that Patriotic could not get the purchas AND the upgradeWhat do you mean "not" get the purchase"? Isn't the deal already done?
"THE Oilfield Workers Trade Union (OWTU) has won the bid for the Pointe-a-Pierre refinery with a US$700 million offer which Government has accepted, Finance Minister Colm Imbert announced this afternoon."
For example:
So defer the 700M on the condition that Patriotic does the necessary upgrades-and if unable to settle the 700M when the debt is called-ownership of the refinery would revert to GORTT.After that whole Sandals fiasco, I will not be surprised if there is a "forgiveness" clause. The responsibility is on them to show that this move is good for the country. They have been trying to keep everything under wraps. Why?
GORTT gets what may be an upgraded refinery.When last have we (the country) ever come out on top in a major deal? All I could say is we need to see the contract documents
Or patriotic works-GORTT gets their money taxes and uptick in economic activity.
1.3M of us want this to work-if it does it certainly is better than foreign ownership of the refinery.
Redman wrote:Bharath is being deliberately misleading-if not dishonest.
Asking all these questions-to sound intelligent-while knowing what the reality is.
How many of us had the money when we bought the first house?
Wasnt there a period after the agreement was made,where both sides had to prove up their claims-value and clear title on the sellers side-and money on the buyers side?
Same principles apply here.
Patriotic was formed for the purpose of buying the refinery.
They would have had to show that they were qualified in terms of being able to conclude the offer as they made.
So the fact that its a SPV negates the issue of financials.
The financing is likely contingent on Patriotic winning the bid and then subject to certain conditions being met.
The moratorium -while terribly communicated could be as a result of a limitation of funds-but that doesnt mean its bad.
Its likely that Patriotic could not get the purchas AND the upgrade
For example:
So defer the 700M on the condition that Patriotic does the necessary upgrades-and if unable to settle the 700M when the debt is called-ownership of the refinery would revert to GORTT.
GORTT gets what may be an upgraded refinery.
Or patriotic works-GORTT gets their money taxes and uptick in economic activity.
1.3M of us want this to work-if it does it certainly is better than foreign ownership of the refinery.
randolphinshan wrote:Joshie23 wrote:De Dragon wrote:MG Man wrote:^^^the ppl who allegedly buss the company with their high wages are now going to run it at a profit....
In B4 Joshie23............
Hoss, I'm home, hugging up someone's daughter, and a man like me, is on the mind of you, another (?)man(?).
Kicks, yes.
You're probably still looking for a coping mechanism for that inferiority complex but this ain't it, chief.
Ignore DeDragon pal, it’s in your best interest. While me and u busy gusting out a lady he only have time to maco man.Let him be them so done reach where they going
Slartibartfast wrote:Some questions. If I sound ignorant it is because I am way out of my element here, so bear with me.Redman wrote:Bharath is being deliberately misleading-if not dishonest.
Asking all these questions-to sound intelligent-while knowing what the reality is.
How many of us had the money when we bought the first house?
Wasnt there a period after the agreement was made,where both sides had to prove up their claims-value and clear title on the sellers side-and money on the buyers side?Isn't this done before entering into any contract? I'm not aware of a bank giving you a loan or a mortgage and then asking you to prove you are good for it.
But they havent entered into the contract as of yet.Patriotic has to now prove they can conclude the transaction-The bid would have had letters from financiers indicating that they are willing to finance based on the winning bid.And Yes the bank will not give you a loan until they are secured-that 3 month period after the downpayment is where we are at in the transaction
Same principles apply here.
Patriotic was formed for the purpose of buying the refinery.
They would have had to show that they were qualified in terms of being able to conclude the offer as they made.
The problem here is lack of transparency. Are we suddenly to accept the words of politicians without question? Were they really qualified? Were they the best option?
Can you point to any transaction any where in the world where the details you are asking for are made public while the transaction is still ongoing?
So the fact that its a SPV negates the issue of financials.
Please explain. I'm not too familiar with this and I can't see the benefit.
Financials on a company that was formed months ago are irrelevant. The benefit is that a New company has zero legacy issues.This is a common occurrence-It happens daily.
The company was formed in order to be the entity that buys the refinery-therefore no financials can exist.But what possibly is in the companys reach is A)The HR to Manage and run the refinery, and B)a financier that has already said 'if allyuh win I will finance the deal.Thats all that is relevant.SO the logical conclusion is that the OWTU has indicated that they have the necessary things in place to complete the purchase and then run it
The financing is likely contingent on Patriotic winning the bid and then subject to certain conditions being met.
Again, transparency would be great here
I havent said no-but it IS pretty early and at the end of the day we still have to see the OWTU come up to scratch.
The moratorium -while terribly communicated could be as a result of a limitation of funds-but that doesnt mean its bad.
Its likely that Patriotic could not get the purchas AND the upgradeWhat do you mean "not" get the purchase"? Isn't the deal already done?
[color=#008000]Sorry-typo. I think that the financier is secured by the refinery value. So its probably that Patriotic cannot get 700M AND the money to upgrade and operate.The GORTT probably has accommodated them in that regard
"THE Oilfield Workers Trade Union (OWTU) has won the bid for the Pointe-a-Pierre refinery with a US$700 million offer which Government has accepted, Finance Minister Colm Imbert announced this afternoon."[/color]
Yep-nothing about when
For example:
So defer the 700M on the condition that Patriotic does the necessary upgrades-and if unable to settle the 700M when the debt is called-ownership of the refinery would revert to GORTT.[color=#0040FF]After that whole Sandals fiasco, I will not be surprised if there is a "forgiveness" clause. The responsibility is on them to show that this move is good for the country. They have been trying to keep everything under wraps. Why?
Its mid transaction in what was a competitive/evaluation process up until last week.It unrealistic to expect all that info to be public
GORTT gets what may be an upgraded refinery.When last have we (the country) ever come out on top in a major deal? All I could say is we need to see the contract documents
What contract? There was an acceptance of a bid subject to the winner proving up their side.
Or patriotic works-GORTT gets their money taxes and uptick in economic activity.
1.3M of us want this to work-if it does it certainly is better than foreign ownership of the refinery.
Carolyn: Govt desperate over refinery
Sean Douglas
THE Government is desperate to restart the mothballed refinery at Pointe-a-Pierre because they are unable to find US$20 million per month to pay for the import of gasoline and other refined products by Paria Fuel Trading Company, alleged former energy minister Carolyn Seepersad-Bachan, in a telephone interview with Newsday yesterday.
She said the Government had previously ignored her warnings not shut the refinery, even as it is now likely to reopen.
“We told them there would be a net outflow of foreign exchange but they told me I don’t know what I’m talking about. But they now realise the negative effect.” The Congress of the People (COP) leader said the refinery closure has so far cost the country by way of lost employment and drop in income tax and national insurance deductions formerly collected from workers.
“And you may not get back your markets especially in the region.” she warned. “That is why they got no real bids.”
Seepersad-Bachan lamented that the Government had discontinued its arbitration proceedings over Petrotrin’s US$350 million Ultra Low Sulphur Project. She said while they had a good chance to recoup US$250 million from Samsung, they had instead settled for just $20 million.
Seepersad-Bachan also queried the process by which the OWTU was chosen as preferred bidder on the refinery.
“I don’t understand how this process was conducted. Cabinet can’t be altering the terms of acceptance.”
She said Cabinet cannot get involved in procurement, evaluation of bids and sale of assets, but must accept recommendations from the evaluation committee of technocrats.
Seepersad-Bachan said the refinery must be now re-opened as soon as possible. She hoped it would then bring TT regional markets, foreign exchange and jobs including those created by service contractors. Seepersad-Bachan said Imbert had once likened the refinery to an old car that keeps shutting down, but instead he should say why a relatively new refinery had got no bids.
Newsday was unable to contact either Energy Minister Franklin Khan or Finance Minister Colm Imbert for a response.
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