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HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

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joelleena
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HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby joelleena » March 19th, 2012, 9:33 pm

I GOT A 4 CHANNEL PIONEER AMP gm-x554...ITS RATED 50RMS PER CHANNEL..... I TRIED USING IT TO PLAY 2 CAIRE 38T DRIVERS BUT IT PLAYING IT REAL SOFT.......I PUT AN EIGHT EMINENCE ON IT AND IT PLAYING IT REAL GOOD..... THE DRIVERS ARE GOOD CAUSE I TESTED IT ON ANOTHER AMP AND IT PLAYING REAL GOOD....WHAT COULD BE CAUSING THIS.....?isnt the amp supposed to play this..... the drivers have heat resistor and condensor on them.....
Last edited by joelleena on March 19th, 2012, 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby nervewrecker » March 19th, 2012, 9:37 pm

60rms per channel @ what impedance? now, whats the impedance of the drivers? see the power out to impedance relation....what conclusion have you come to?

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby musicgalore » March 21st, 2012, 8:14 pm

First of all check the sensitivity of the amplifier that will tell you if the sensitivity is high or low if the sensitivity is low you will need more gain on the input to drive the amp to a substantial level, but if the input sensitivity is high well you would not need much input voltage on the input to get it up to level and check your input gain on the amplifier make sure they are up at least 3/4 should be good, another thing you should do is get rid of the resistor and capacitor on the driver and use an electronic crossover with the appropriate crossover point used.

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby nervewrecker » March 21st, 2012, 10:30 pm

musicgalore wrote:First of all check the sensitivity of the amplifier that will tell you if the sensitivity is high or low how does one check this if the sensitivity is low you will need more gain on the input to drive the amp to a substantial level, but if the input sensitivity is high well you would not need much input voltage on the input to get it up to level and check your input gain on the amplifier make sure they are up at least 3/4 should be good, supposed he has 10v out, should he set the gains 3/4way up? matching maybe say 2v another thing you should do is get rid of the resistor and capacitor on the driver do you know what is the purpose of those? the cap forms a hpf and use an electronic crossover with the appropriate crossover point used.go ahead, elaborate


seriously, where do some of you come out from?

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby BrotherHood » March 21st, 2012, 11:58 pm

musicgalore wrote:First of all check the sensitivity of the amplifier that will tell you if the sensitivity is high or low if the sensitivity is low you will need more gain on the input to drive the amp to a substantial level, but if the input sensitivity is high well you would not need much input voltage on the input to get it up to level and check your input gain on the amplifier make sure they are up at least 3/4 should be good, another thing you should do is get rid of the resistor and capacitor on the driver and use an electronic crossover with the appropriate crossover point used.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :wtf:

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby a little louder » March 22nd, 2012, 3:13 pm

hehehe

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby - Rovin's car audio - » March 22nd, 2012, 7:54 pm

that feller was probably high when he posted ... :lol:

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby musicgalore » March 27th, 2012, 9:02 pm

(...Rovin...) wrote:that feller was probably high when he posted ... :lol:



What don't you understand? i have enough music intelligence to give advice on music i give...... you don't understand a sheit am talking about do you know what is the sensitivity of your amplifier? hmmmmm doubt very much you know anything about THAT! do you know how much VRMS your amplifier needs to deliver it's full power hmmmm answer me those questions first then talk or keep yuh mouth SHUT!!!!

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby nervewrecker » March 27th, 2012, 9:06 pm

musicgalore wrote:
(...Rovin...) wrote:that feller was probably high when he posted ... :lol:



What don't you understand? i have enough music intelligence to give advice on music i give...... you don't understand a sheit am talking about do you know what is the sensitivity of your amplifier? hmmmmm doubt very much you know anything about THAT! do you know how much VRMS your amplifier needs to deliver it's full power hmmmm answer me those questions first then talk or keep yuh mouth SHUT!!!!



nervewrecker wrote:
musicgalore wrote:First of all check the sensitivity of the amplifier that will tell you if the sensitivity is high or low how does one check this if the sensitivity is low you will need more gain on the input to drive the amp to a substantial level, but if the input sensitivity is high well you would not need much input voltage on the input to get it up to level and check your input gain on the amplifier make sure they are up at least 3/4 should be good, supposed he has 10v out, should he set the gains 3/4way up? matching maybe say 2v another thing you should do is get rid of the resistor and capacitor on the driver do you know what is the purpose of those? the cap forms a hpf and use an electronic crossover with the appropriate crossover point used.go ahead, elaborate


seriously, where do some of you come out from?


Well if he dotish, answer me.....

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby - Rovin's car audio - » March 27th, 2012, 9:25 pm

musicgalore wrote:
(...Rovin...) wrote:that feller was probably high when he posted ... :lol:



What don't you understand? i have enough music intelligence to give advice on music i give...... you don't understand a sheit am talking about do you know what is the sensitivity of your amplifier? hmmmmm doubt very much you know anything about THAT! do you know how much VRMS your amplifier needs to deliver it's full power hmmmm answer me those questions first then talk or keep yuh mouth SHUT!!!!


:lol:

d OP didnt even say what deck he has or if there are any processors in d system so how u cud know what is d deck or processor\s rca voltage out ... then why u make a wild guess suggestion that his amp gain needs to be at least 3\4 way up ? ... :|

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby musicgalore » March 27th, 2012, 10:08 pm

nervewrecker wrote:
musicgalore wrote:
(...Rovin...) wrote:that feller was probably high when he posted ... :lol:



What don't you understand? i have enough music intelligence to give advice on music i give...... you don't understand a sheit am talking about do you know what is the sensitivity of your amplifier? hmmmmm doubt very much you know anything about THAT! do you know how much VRMS your amplifier needs to deliver it's full power hmmmm answer me those questions first then talk or keep yuh mouth SHUT!!!!



nervewrecker wrote:
musicgalore wrote:First of all check the sensitivity of the amplifier that will tell you if the sensitivity is high or low how does one check this if the sensitivity is low you will need more gain on the input to drive the amp to a substantial level, but if the input sensitivity is high well you would not need much input voltage on the input to get it up to level and check your input gain on the amplifier make sure they are up at least 3/4 should be good, supposed he has 10v out, should he set the gains 3/4way up? matching maybe say 2v another thing you should do is get rid of the resistor and capacitor on the driver do you know what is the purpose of those? the cap forms a hpf and use an electronic crossover with the appropriate crossover point used.go ahead, elaborate


seriously, where do some of you come out from?


Well if he dotish, answer me.....


WHY do you want me to answer you? he's the one with the amplifier go do yuh research and come again and if you don't understand fell free to ask it's not a problem just trying to share my knowledge on what i know.

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby nervewrecker » March 27th, 2012, 10:33 pm

Well what you know is wrong & so is the advice you are giving.

Firstly the go read up about sensitivity.

Secondly, do you know about properly setting / matching amplifier gains? How can you tell the guy to turn it up to 3/4? supposed he has a an audiocontrol matrix between his head unit & amplifier? You are straining the amp to amplify a weak signal & it will max out at low volumes (usually less than ten when you have up to approx 60 on the pioneer source units). Should the dude turn the volume up anymore he will push the amp into clipping & fcuk the speaker coils up. I bet you dont know about clipping.

Thirdly, the Capacitor is there for a reason. Know about First Order Passive x-over? Nice 6db slope? An appropriately sized cap for matching impedance of the driver in question will give a nice 6db high pass filter.
Read here: http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/cross6db.asp#hp
I have yet to figure out why will one put a resistor on a driver.

1 - it changes the overall impedance if it is in parallel with the drivers coil & in series with the cap & will shift the HPF.

2 - yes most amps double up on the output when the impedance is halved. Yes putting a resistor in parallel with the driver coil will half / drop the overall impedance that the amps 'sees'. However the resistor (assuming it is the same value as that of the drivers coil) will dissipate half of the power that reached the combo as heat etc. The driver will still be receiving half of the power from the amp.
Lets examine this further:

I - no resistor, driver receives half the power the amp is capable of putting out, amp runs cooler & more efficient.

II - resistor in parallel with drivers coil, driver still receives half the power & amp puts out full power with 50% of it wasted, amp runs at a higher temperature & less efficient.

NOTE: examples here are with a 8 ohm driver & amp that puts out full power per channel (or bridged channel as the case may be) at 4 ohms.

Fourth & final on my agenda, if an appropriate capacitor was used in the first place or appropriate passive network one does not need an electronic x-over. The thing is, with a passive network (be it whatever slope & / or hpf or lpf) the xover points are usually fixed. Some do allow to make some adjustments with respect to slopes & x-over frequency though. With an electronic x-over you have more flexibility with respect to choosing & adjusting your x-over points (hpf & lpf in some cases as as well as slope) of your choice without having to constantly swap capacitors. There are many reasons for wanting to alter the x-over points & slopes to your driver.

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby musicgalore » March 27th, 2012, 10:36 pm

(...Rovin...) wrote:
musicgalore wrote:
(...Rovin...) wrote:that feller was probably high when he posted ... :lol:



What don't you understand? i have enough music intelligence to give advice on music i give...... you don't understand a sheit am talking about do you know what is the sensitivity of your amplifier? hmmmmm doubt very much you know anything about THAT! do you know how much VRMS your amplifier needs to deliver it's full power hmmmm answer me those questions first then talk or keep yuh mouth SHUT!!!!


:lol:

d OP didnt even say what deck he has or if there are any processors in d system so how u cud know what is d deck or processor\s rca voltage out ... then why u make a wild guess suggestion that his amp gain needs to be at least 3\4 way up ? ... :|


First thing first how much Voltage RMS does a deck puts out from it's output left and right? OKAY I'LL TELL YOU BETWEEN 2 TO 5 VOLTS IN THE SIGNAL PATH.Secondly a processor takes what ever input signal meaning the same input voltage from whatever source and multiply it by 2-3 TIMES FOR EASY EXPLANATION and so on and who said anything about rca voltage :shock: i never said anything about that and what the F%^& is that? i said VRMS brother, and to answer your question about why i said keep his volume on his amp 3/4 is because i'm trying to help the guy go into a troubleshooting mode it's a feasible try, DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS TROUBLESHOOTING? I HOPE SO.... at-lest, the guy said (EXACTLY)he TRIED USING IT TO PLAY 2 CAIRE 38T DRIVERS BUT IT PLAYING IT REAL SOFT
AND HE SAID (EXACTLY)
but he PUT AN EIGHT EMINENCE ON IT AND IT PLAYING IT REAL GOOD
probably this is what i figured out, the two drivers with the resistor and capacitor is causing instability, a resistor breaks down voltage and a capacitor somewhat does the same also but changes the audio signal AND ROLL-OFF, simple tweeter crossovers are caps and a single cap gives you a 6db roll-off.... typically called bass-blockers... and bass blockers are designed for a low high pass (80-100hz) nearly the same and that in return will change the efficiency of the driver am sure if he takes of the caps and resistor it will sound louder but he needs a crossover on it now to protect it, both ways can work with the caps and resistors and without with the use of an electronic crossover that is, that is why the eminence will sound louder because it's efficiency is better or greater and will not take to much RMS watts to produce some db levels that's my take on it WHAT'S YOURS?

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby a little louder » March 27th, 2012, 10:49 pm

musicgalore you making yourself into a fool stop now

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby nervewrecker » March 27th, 2012, 10:54 pm

musicgalore wrote:
First thing first how much Voltage RMS does a deck puts out from it's output left and right? The deck usually says, that info is usually found in the manual, I donno about that left & right you talking about there pal Secondly a processor takes what ever input signal meaning the same input voltage from whatever source and multiply it by 2 3 and so on say what? A line driver boosts the signal without altering it, a processor modifys it (in a nutshell) & most have some sort of line drive so they function as a line driver too and who said anything about rca voltage the rca voltage is what you matching the amps gain to, usually the rca output voltage of the last piece of equipment in the chain :shock: i never said anything about that and what the F%^& is that? i said VRMS brother, whats VRMS and to answer your question about why i said keep his volume on his amp 3/4 Volume on his amp? I have yet to see an amp with a volume knob, do you happen to have a pic of one? is because i'm trying to help the guy go into a troubleshooting mode it's a feasible try.... at-lest, the guy said he TRIED USING IT TO PLAY 2 CAIRE 38T DRIVERS BUT IT PLAYING IT REAL SOFT
but he PUT AN EIGHT EMINENCE ON IT AND IT PLAYING IT REAL GOOD

If the 8" eminence played properly, why interfere with the gains? Obviously its the Drivers, my first guess was the overall impedance in the circuit or wrong sized cap for the x-over frequency especially as a resistor was added in (& im pretty sure it did no come with) so the hpf shifted.
probably this is what i figured out, the two drivers with the resistor and capacitor is causing instability, a resistor breaks down voltage and a capacitor somewhat does the same really? also but changes the audio signal, simple tweeter crossovers are caps and a single cap gives you a 6db roll-off.... typically called bass-blockers... and bass blockers are designed for a low high pass out of curiosity, you ever reverse back a car? :mrgreen: (80-100hz) nearly the same and that in return will change the efficiency of the driver lawd am sure if he takes of the caps and resistor it will sound louder more like distorted as unwanted frequencies will come through and damage the driver but he needs a crossover on it now to protect it, both ways can work with the caps and resistors and without with the use of an electronic crossover that is, that is why the eminence will sound louder because it's efficiency is better or greater and will not take to much RMS watts to produce some db levels that's my take on it WHAT'S YOURS? Just posted it above there :wink:

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby - Rovin's car audio - » March 28th, 2012, 10:30 am

why bother ... :|

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby ruffneck_12 » April 3rd, 2012, 10:34 am

musicgalore wrote:
(...Rovin...) wrote:that feller was probably high when he posted ... :lol:



What don't you understand? i have enough music intelligence to give advice on music i give...... you don't understand a sheit am talking about do you know what is the sensitivity of your amplifier? hmmmmm doubt very much you know anything about THAT! do you know how much VRMS your amplifier needs to deliver it's full power hmmmm answer me those questions first then talk or keep yuh mouth SHUT!!!!


This is like telling a priest he never read the bible.

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby BrotherHood » April 3rd, 2012, 12:25 pm

nerve, you can't get water from a bigstone. leave the bigstone alone.

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby shake d livin wake d dead » April 3rd, 2012, 1:23 pm

ah dedding in this ched,nerve u ha real patience bai,lmao

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Re: HELP...PROBLEM WITH AMP AND DRIVERS

Postby andyharricharan » April 3rd, 2012, 3:23 pm

lmao...nerve take it easy on d man.....loli want to see the amp with the volume knob as well to eh....lmao....

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