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"Remote" Turbocharging

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Alpha_2nr
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"Remote" Turbocharging

Postby Alpha_2nr » August 25th, 2005, 8:35 pm

I've recently seen a site talking about a "Remote" turbocharging system. They are touting the system as a "revolutionary" innovation, which can give you from 7-10 psi of boost (supposedly) without an intercooler!!:shock:

Apparently the idea is that the turbo is mounted near the exhaust outlet at the back of the vehicle, where it is "cooler". A "turbo" setup replaces the stock exhaust and silencer, and amazingly enough, an air intake is situated at the back of /under the car to feed the turbo. Thus there is supposedly no need for an intercooler, and the oil for the turbo runs cooler as well? Does this make sense? How practical is this? Last time I came across a turbo near the exhaust outlet at the back of a car was in the Porsche 935, and that's a rear engined car (duh):roll:.

Also, since piping has to run to the back of the car (from the engine), and then back up to the front of the car (engine), the length of the piping involved supposedly provides an "intercooling" effect.

The theory seems sound...but practicality??

My little knowledge of Chemistry taught me that when you compress air, it's temperature rises above that of ambient......

here's a demo of how it works....http://ststurbo.com/how_it_works/edit/693/#


Image

    # Ease of installation. STS turbo systems can be installed in about 8 hours with standard tools and average mechanical ability.
    # Performance Sound. The turbo acts as a muffler and sounds like an aftermarket performance muffler. Turbo spool and rushing air from the blow-off valve make a unique sound that will turn heads!
    # No need for major modifications to your vehicle. STS systems are designed to "bolt-on" to factory mounts.
    # Increased gas mileage. Unlike a belt driven supercharger, the turbo utilizes "wasted" energy leaving your tailpipe. Most of our customers get 1-3 mpg increase in gas mileage.
    # Lower underhood temperatures. No need to worry about melting wires, hoses, or other components.
    # Converts back to stock in about an hour.
    # More room under the hood. Future repair work or modifications will not require the expense of removing the turbo system to allow access to engine components.
    # Cooler oil to the turbo. Cool oil is better for both the turbo and engine.
    # Approximately 500F lower turbo temperatures. Eliminates the need for a turbo-timer, which allows the engine to run after the car is shut off in order to cool down the turbo and prevent oil and bearing damage.
    # Denser exhaust gasses drive the turbo turbine wheel more efficiently.
    # Built-in intercooling. Intake piping provides ~50% intercooler efficiency. There is no need for the expense, pressure drop, and installation problems associated with a front mounted intercooler.
    # Turbo is exposed to ambient air rather than underhood air. Allows for better cooling of turbo components.
    # No need for expensive headers, mufflers, or exhaust systems.
    # Turbo is closer to the tail pipe outlet. Provides a better pressure differential across the turbine wheel which promotes better flow across turbine.
    # Better weight transfer. Increases traction because the bulk of system is mounted in rear of vehicle rather than up front.
    # Less noise in the passenger compartment.
:roll:
Last edited by Alpha_2nr on August 25th, 2005, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Alpha_2nr » August 25th, 2005, 9:58 pm

More info from a HCI magazine review:

SquiresTurboSystems(STS)from
Orem, Utah has vaporized another huge myth- that a turbocharger needs to be mounted as close to the engine as possible. Conventional wisdom implies that exhaust heat is the energy driving the turbo. Secondarily,the shorter the intake path, the more responsivethe turbo will
be. When STSintroduced its patented remote mounted turbo system to the world a couple of years ago, those mythswere put on notice. Fortunately,STSfounder,and head ofR&D, RickSquires challenged conventional wisdom. Rickreasoned that if you could stick a torch in
the turbo inlet and the turbine wheel didn't spin, heat is not the energy source driving the
turbo - exhaust flow is. Rick also reasoned that the amount of exhaust flowing out of the cylinder heads is equal to the amount of exhaust that is flowing out of the tailpipe, so it really doesn't matter where the turbo is
mounted. Armed with these assumptions Rickreplaced the muffler on a "mule" test vehicle with a turbo and wastegate assembly. He ran a piece of tubing from the turbo compressor forward to the throttle body. Sinceturbos need a source of lubrication,Rickdevised a patented setup that sends engine oil to the turbo under pressure. It circulates through the turbo and is pumped back to the engine by an electric pump through a special cap that simply replaces the original filler cap. Rick fired the thing up and went for a test drive. Just as he suspected the engine didn't know, or care, that the turbo was at the rear of the vehicle. It was at full boost by 3000rpm and increased the RWHP by 69% at only 5psi. The mule ran as hard and responded as well as any turbocharged vehicle he had ever owned
or driven. Everyone who saw and heard themule run wasalso impressedwith the awesome sound it made. Because the turbocharger replaces the muffler, what you hear out of the exhaust is a cool-sounding turbo whine. It wasn't long before Rickquit his day job and the
STS remote mounted turbo system company was born! Here's why STS has rocked the world of turbocharging: Before the concept of remote
turbos, turbo kits werecomplicated and difficult to install, especiallyin today's tightly packaged engine compartments. With STS, nothing gets added to the engine compartment except the intake tube that is no more obtrusive than the original factory intake. That means it isas
easy to work on your engine as it was stock. Most engine-mounted aftermarket kits take days to install, and require major, irreversible modifications to your vehicle. All STS turbo kits can be installed in 4-8 hours with simple hand tools, no fabrication and no welding and removed in less than an hour. At last, a true bolt-on turbo system! Another liability with traditional enginemounted turbos is heat.A turbo radiatesintense
heat that tends to cook everything rubber or plastic under the hood. With the turbo mounted in the rearit runs up to 8000cooler,and because it is out in the air stream, turbo heat has no ill effect on the vehicle. Turbocharger reliability is also greatly increased because it runs much cooler, and there is no need for a cool-down timer. Another advantage of remote turbocharging is that the inlet charge air temperature
drops almost 1000 from the compressor to theintake manifold. The passive air-cooling of the inlet pipe that runs from the rear to the front of
the vehicle reduces the need for an intercooler.

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Postby cdx2k1 » August 26th, 2005, 7:47 am

Very interesting.I heard about this type of setup and one of the questions raised was that in a front engine config, would the EG be strong enough to spool the turbo, being so far in the back.A very good question but this guy's theories seem to demolish this doubt.He states that the flow exactly at the front is equal to that at the exhaust.I'd get one just for the heck of it 8)

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Postby speadfreak » August 26th, 2005, 1:44 pm


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Postby Bezman » August 26th, 2005, 2:24 pm

yeah this has been discussed many many times,. and works.

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Postby Alpha_2nr » August 26th, 2005, 8:20 pm

Ok.....sorry its a repost. :oops::oops:

Anyway, if this system is sooooooo great (no intercooler, no turbo timer, less modifications req'd etc etc.) then am I to assume as time goes by, this system is going to become very popular?

A pity though that the STS remote turbo system is primarily for some USDM vehicles so far. I believe an Integra kit is in the works....

I would love to hear the sound this thing makes though. Imagine the way your car's exhaust would sound with this thing on!

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remote turbos

Postby DavetoExtreme » August 27th, 2005, 12:00 pm

nice concept etc....but really and truly I don't think that setup would last long on Trinidad's roads and our weather conditions. Dirt buildup etc. would affect heat transfer hampering performance....I think the intercooler is the better option. Correct me if I am wrong but wont this setup be slowing the exhaust gases a bit at the rear end of the vehicle since you would be spooling at the rear?? :roll: For a given pipe diameter, a slower gas through it would be less noisy and what would be the difference between the sound from remote turbocharging and a front turboed vehicle with a high flow cat-back exhaust besides the intercooler?? ...Provided you running a the same boost? :twisted: Don't think there'll be a significant difference if at all :P

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Postby Alpha_2nr » August 27th, 2005, 7:56 pm

When I made reference to a difference in sound, I meant that you'll hear the turbo "whine" more...at the back of your car. I see what you're saying though...the exhaust gases aren't running through the turbo (duh) :roll: ..but the high pitched sound that these turbos make (when spooled up), I think will be alot more obvious when its at the back of the car, because then, that sound won't be drowned out say, by other engine sounds.....don't know if that makes sense.

I am also skeptical about the claim that this system is purely bolt-on and requires little engine mods. At the end of the day, this is still a turbocharging system, and like any other, air:fuel ratios need to be checked and calibrated properly in order to avoid detonation etc. So won't some kind of ECU upgrade, re-tuning, or "piggyback" ECU chip/management system be needed to handle this?

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Postby X2 » August 29th, 2005, 3:04 pm

By bolt on... it means it is easy to put on. It doesn't even require the catalytic be removed, so it's emmisions friendly (no light off probs !)


This has been discussed once before with no big conclusion. I will tell you that american domestic guys have been doing remote mount turbo systems FOR YEARS. It's nothing new... but it's new to the import/small displacment jap crowd. Squires merely calculated a good turbo for our sized engines (4 bangers)... the science has been around for ages and implemented many times before. I've seen it run on Pontiac Trans Ams and Dodge trucks in the states and it works fine.... but no one really did research on em for low displacement motors till now.

Personally I think applications will be strongly limited by displacement... the idea is sound and proven tho.

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Postby ninjaboost » August 29th, 2005, 5:19 pm


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Postby killersuzuki » September 1st, 2005, 3:01 pm

X2 I'm thinking of trying it on my wagon: 5psi, small boost, with the majority of the budget spent on VERY good engine management (I'm thinking emanage ultimate). of course, being a trini, I going to build my own kit. What size turbo you think I should use?

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Postby X2 » September 1st, 2005, 6:08 pm

Killer... the WHOLE magic of a remote system is to balance the trim and flow characteristics of the turbo to make up for the piping travel. Mr. Squires is apparently a master at this, which is why his systems work so well when others tried and failed.

Honestly... the math to figure something like that out... intimidates me... :lol:

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Postby killersuzuki » September 2nd, 2005, 3:31 pm

yeah I was thinking the same thing, but using his measurements that the piping from back to front roughly equals the piping for a FMIC, I was thinking a T28....I dunno is a long term project, so I'm open to suggestions.

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Postby W2J » September 2nd, 2005, 4:58 pm

X2 I'm thinking of trying it on my wagon: 5psi, small boost, with the majority of the budget spent on VERY good engine management (I'm thinking emanage ultimate). of course, being a trini, I going to build my own kit. What size turbo you think I should use?


who going to tune the ultimate for you

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Postby killersuzuki » September 2nd, 2005, 6:05 pm

Haven't even thought about that yet....I eh even BUY it yet, I still formulating plans.

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Postby X2 » September 13th, 2005, 1:30 am

Why W2J... u have someone in mind ?


Killer... sizing a turbo for this type of app is way beyond my knowledge... any pleb can do the calculations for a standard setup... but taking into account piping distance, diameter, air velocity, etc... meng... that's a lot of math as well as trial and error... that Squires guy has been in this game for years.... I'm not even gunna pretend I can do what he's doin'. :D

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Postby Picasso » September 13th, 2005, 4:08 am

Killa boy just put the dam turbo up front jed yuh bound to get it right like that :lol: :lol:

I saw they did the same thing on 2 guys garage on Speed Vision on an old school car and I was like :shock: WTF these white men doing jed, replacing the barrel with a turbo system I nearly take my TV off yes.. when they were done it worked real good... it was the first time i ever saw a set up like that... I will recomend it for guys who have cars with very little engine bay room to work with if they want some boost... :|

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Postby Walk510 » September 13th, 2005, 7:31 am

hmm lag is not your friend intrested how the oil gets back to the sump YUK
rather put NAWWWWWZZZ (nos) than have a turbo behind the diff

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Postby W2J » September 13th, 2005, 9:55 am

Why W2J... u have someone in mind ?



X2 to be honest the only person that have enough experience and probally the only one in Trinidad that is certified by Greddy to tune there systems including the ultimate is ME. :lol:

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Postby X2 » September 13th, 2005, 10:06 am

Interesting... you know how to use the system or you've already tuned many cars with it ? Didn't know you were a big time local engine tuner now....



Walk510... you need an electric oil pump to get the oil there....

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Postby W2J » September 13th, 2005, 1:22 pm

Interesting... you know how to use the system or you've already tuned many cars with it ? Didn't know you were a big time local engine tuner now....


I will show you what it does the next time I meet you on the tracks

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Postby X2 » September 13th, 2005, 1:35 pm

W2J wrote:
Interesting... you know how to use the system or you've already tuned many cars with it ? Didn't know you were a big time local engine tuner now....


I will show you what it does the next time I meet you on the tracks


That one car you still blabbing about ? :roll:

C'mon meng... you need all that boost to beat an untuned N/A honda ? :lol:

BTW... next time you meet me on the tracks... My car won't be the same... but I still won't need to be boosted. :wink:

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Postby DrunkenMaster16 » September 13th, 2005, 3:09 pm

when I come out we'll play the boost game.gimmie 6 - 9 months... elbroko :cry:

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Postby Mr. Fixables » December 4th, 2005, 8:54 pm

I was going to try this, but I got the turbo and manifold for Casper at a good enough price to do it the traditional way.

Kirk

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Postby X2 » December 5th, 2005, 2:17 am

Plus casper tail too long.... :wink:

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