T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

[agent007]

The gap between the Corolla Cross fully loaded and the hybrid fully loaded is $71k. Put another way, that is approx. 14,286 litres of super gasoline more.

Since the fuel tank holds 47L and assuming that one burns every drop of fuel before re-fuelling. It means: 14,286 ÷ 47 = 304 max fill-ups.

Assuming one drives 30,000kms a year (if you're not a taxi driver - as a regular person post covid, this may be a stretch) and assuming each of those 304 fill-ups give a base range of 500kms (I reckon the 2ZR-FE 1.8 will actually do better), it means 304 x 500 = 152,000kms.

152,000 ÷ 30,000 = 5 years. The savings you automatically derive by purchasing the non-hybrid version over the hybrid version is 5 years worth of gas (based on high usage). For someone who may do 15k kms a year, it gets even better. You're talking about 10 years worth of gas difference. Also take note, in those 5-10 years I just mentioned, the hybrid unit racks up gas bills too so if one wants to get even more granular, it still not working in favour of the hybrid.

I am also willing to bet, the resale value of the non hybrid would be better than the hybrid simply because potential owners might be asking 5+ years down the road, what about battery life? The ICE might last longer in the hybrid due to less wear and tear but when the HSD system does call for intervention, that won't be a pretty bill.

So, I join with Joshie and others to really find out what is TTTL's strategy? Buying the hybrid because it has a sunroof? You can get a third world Indian made 2 airbag Kia Seltos right now for what $217k? And it comes with leather and sunroof etc.

Perhaps TTTL's strategy is to cater for the clientele in this country who happen to be successful business owners, doctors, lawyers and for salaried people that clock some decent 6 figure numbers monthly.

For regular working class people, the value proposition on said Corolla Cross is not there. A sales rep can gargle reliability and resale value all they want to gullible clients, but at the end of the day, the way how we know the world to be in 2021 and beyond, all vehicles would depreciate badly whether it be a Toyota or a Kia.

That Seltos I just mentioned above at $217k (I don't know how much of you all noticed but it is basically half the price of the Corolla Cross hybrid). Both can seat 5 and both will last through the loan period of up to 8 years.

Let's use some past data. Since we don't have any for the Corolla Cross and Seltos, both being new entries to the market, let's use what we can to closely match.

Consider an 8 year old fully loaded PCY 2013 RAV4 2.5 AWD vs an 8 year old PCY 2013 fully loaded Sportage 2.0. Assuming both are in mint condition and are with their first owners (dealer maintained with zero accidents). The Kia can fetch about $80k for the very least? A PCY 2013 RAV4 can fetch what $150k for the very least? The Sportage lost $200k in resale over those 8 years and the RAV4 lost $260k in resale. Some may be asking at this point, "so you knew the cost of a fully loaded Sportage and RAV4 back in 2013?" The answer is yes!

If you all look at the pricing of Hyundai and Kia crossovers/"SUVs" locally, within the price gap from $200-$275k, you would realize for the average salaried person with a permanent job who can obtain a job letter, 2 forms of ID, some pay slips and a utility bill as well as the BIR number can literally walk into most financial institutions and qualify for an 8 year loan with zero percent down and drive away with 1 out of the following (Venue, Creta, Tucson, Sonet, Niro, Seltos, Sportage). Watch how popular those 7 crossovers are. Hyundai and Kia are dominating the sales charts here in T&T for years. That says something about their strategy and that adopted by the dealers.

In TTTL's corner, they have the Rush and RAV4 and whilst both are getting customers, it is not at the phenomenal rate in which SS and Massy get theirs. Now, what is likely is that the profit margin for every Rush and RAV4 sold (and soon to be Corolla Cross) could very well be equal to or more than what SS and Massy can squeeze from their Korean crossover lineup. Who is to say? This is all speculation mixed with facts and assumptions.

Food for thought. Now, if my POV is flawed, I welcome corrections and feedback.

[kamakazi]

You make that maths extra fancy

14286litres * 10.5km/l = 150003km

Assuming you can get an average10.5 kilometers per liter.

Doesn't matter much how you fill your tank

[triniboi49]

The gap between the Corolla Cross fully loaded and the hybrid fully loaded is $71k. Put another way, that is approx. 14,286 litres of super gasoline more.

Since the fuel tank holds 47L and assuming that one burns every drop of fuel before re-fuelling. It means: 14,286 ÷ 47 = 304 max fill-ups.

Assuming one drives 30,000kms a year (if you're not a taxi driver - as a regular person post covid, this may be a stretch) and assuming each of those 304 fill-ups give a base range of 500kms (I reckon the 2ZR-FE 1.8 will actually do better), it means 304 x 500 = 152,000kms.

152,000 ÷ 30,000 = 5 years. The savings you automatically derive by purchasing the non-hybrid version over the hybrid version is 5 years worth of gas (based on high usage). For someone who may do 15k kms a year, it gets even better. You're talking about 10 years worth of gas difference. Also take note, in those 5-10 years I just mentioned, the hybrid unit racks up gas bills too so if one wants to get even more granular, it still not working in favour of the hybrid.

I am also willing to bet, the resale value of the non hybrid would be better than the hybrid simply because potential owners might be asking 5+ years down the road, what about battery life? The ICE might last longer in the hybrid due to less wear and tear but when the HSD system does call for intervention, that won't be a pretty bill.

So, I join with Joshie and others to really find out what is TTTL's strategy? Buying the hybrid because it has a sunroof? You can get a third world Indian made 2 airbag Kia Seltos right now for what $217k? And it comes with leather and sunroof etc.

Perhaps TTTL's strategy is to cater for the clientele in this country who happen to be successful business owners, doctors, lawyers and for salaried people that clock some decent 6 figure numbers monthly.

For regular working class people, the value proposition on said Corolla Cross is not there. A sales rep can gargle reliability and resale value all they want to gullible clients, but at the end of the day, the way how we know the world to be in 2021 and beyond, all vehicles would depreciate badly whether it be a Toyota or a Kia.

That Seltos I just mentioned above at $217k (I don't know how much of you all noticed but it is basically half the price of the Corolla Cross hybrid). Both can seat 5 and both will last through the loan period of up to 8 years.

Let's use some past data. Since we don't have any for the Corolla Cross and Seltos, both being new entries to the market, let's use what we can to closely match.

Consider an 8 year old fully loaded PCY 2013 RAV4 2.5 AWD vs an 8 year old PCY 2013 fully loaded Sportage 2.0. Assuming both are in mint condition and are with their first owners (dealer maintained with zero accidents). The Kia can fetch about $80k for the very least? A PCY 2013 RAV4 can fetch what $150k for the very least? The Sportage lost $200k in resale over those 8 years and the RAV4 lost $260k in resale. Some may be asking at this point, "so you knew the cost of a fully loaded Sportage and RAV4 back in 2013?" The answer is yes!

If you all look at the pricing of Hyundai and Kia crossovers/"SUVs" locally, within the price gap from $200-$275k, you would realize for the average salaried person with a permanent job who can obtain a job letter, 2 forms of ID, some pay slips and a utility bill as well as the BIR number can literally walk into most financial institutions and qualify for an 8 year loan with zero percent down and drive away with 1 out of the following (Venue, Creta, Tucson, Sonet, Niro, Seltos, Sportage). Watch how popular those 7 crossovers are. Hyundai and Kia are dominating the sales charts here in T&T for years. That says something about their strategy and that adopted by the dealers.

In TTTL's corner, they have the Rush and RAV4 and whilst both are getting customers, it is not at the phenomenal rate in which SS and Massy get theirs. Now, what is likely is that the profit margin for every Rush and RAV4 sold (and soon to be Corolla Cross) could very well be equal to or more than what SS and Massy can squeeze from their Korean crossover lineup. Who is to say? This is all speculation mixed with facts and assumptions.

Food for thought. Now, if my POV is flawed, I welcome corrections and feedback.

Very nice thesis. Makes a lot of common sense - One thing to note a lot of what goes into a vehicle purchase is emotional and logic/common sense takes a back seat else. That's why people take a loan for 7/8 years to buy car that would depreciate like crazy.

[drchaos]

Really interested to see what the foreign new price would be for that Corolla Cross hybrid.

[aaron17]

New civic looks nice

[ALady4ALady]

Well look thing...they say they gonna bring the corolla cross.

So in typical TTTL fashion we can look forward to an overpriced under featured vehicle in the future??

I have to admit, that Dizzy28 called it accurately.
Nothing impressive, really to see there.
Just a larger version of a wagon.

[2WNBoost]

Pricing is set for the target market.

EURO brands offer everything as options and they get sales.

Pick what suits you and give others the courtesy of doing the same.

[agent007]

For those who are interested in the 2021+ Nissan NP300 Frontier PRO-4X (D23):

Please see the following info in relation to the original 2014-2020 Nissan NP300 Frontier LE (D23):

1. The engine, transmission, suspension and braking system is carried over
2. The bonnet, grill, head lamps, fog lamps and bumper is completely redesigned
3. The entire tray, tailgate, tail lights and rear bumper is re-designed
4. The rims are re-designed
5. The dash board design and frame remains except that the P4X does not have the cup holders by the outboard AC vents and the head unit has been upgraded from a 5” non-touch to an 8” touch screen with smart phone integration (for X-Gear people, this is like a carry over feature). Also, the pocket indentation to the top with the power port has been removed and thus is no longer present for the P4X
6. The front heated seats has been deleted
7. Although the leather is branded as “Pro-4X”, the quality itself feels like it was upholstered locally by sticking a shiny vinyl over some fabric and they threw some sponge in between to make it soft. It’s worse than the perforated leather in the LE version which is firmer and offers better back support.
8. The drivers seat in the P4X is not powered but in the previous LE it was
9. The rear view mirror had a digital compass built into it previously, however in the P4X, this is absent
10: The LE came with 18” wheels (I know between 2015 to 2017), LE’s came with 16” wheels but this was upgraded eventually to 18” by Nissan. The X-Gear model also had an 18” wheel. Anyway, the P4X has 17” rims
11. The P4X now comes with partial LED tail lights
12. The redesigned rear bumper now includes factory fitted parking sensors with a disable button outfitted on the dash board
13. The rear tailgate is also fitted with a torsion bar for easier raising and lowering of the tailgate itself
14. The tray is slightly shorter but it is deeper now. The tray also has built-in slideable cargo hooks/tie down points. In other words it’s on a track now for improved securing
15. The in-tray power plug is now absent
16. The tray lip spoiler is now integrated into the tailgate as a 1 piece design. The plastic covering is no longer there so the new integrated lip is just bare painted metal which would eventually be scratched unless protected (like it was before)
17. The back seat now has 3 adjustable head rests as opposed to 2 from before and there is a center arm rest with 2 cup holders now
18. The P4X has 7 airbags now as opposed to 2 from before
19. The fog lights are now LED
20. The rear AC vents in the P4X now has a USB port to the left for back seat occupants to use
21. The TFT display on the instrument cluster is bigger in the P4X and includes a digital speedometer option as well
22. The P4X now has front and rear mud guards as opposed to the previous trims having rear mud guards only
23. The P4X has a much nicer looking steering wheel which is completely redesigned
24. The wing mirrors have an automatic close option now when the key fob holder presses lock
25. The P4X now includes an automatic wipers function
26. The P4X now includes the AVM - Around View Monitor aka 360 camera system
27. The P4X has black protective trim on each fender liner with a reflector built-in

Disappointing:

1. I did not observe the crash avoidance features, blind spot and lane sensing features that is found in the Mitsubishi L200 Sportero and to some extent, the Chevrolet Colorado
2. No front parking sensors as observed in both Sportero and Colorado
3. No electric power steering as seen in Ranger 3.2 and Colorado
4. Still no telescopic steering adjustment
5. Front rotors still can’t match the 4 piston setup found in the Hilux
6. Don’t be fooled by marketing, the P4X is not an upgraded off road version. It’s just aesthetics just like the X-Gear. The Warrior version whilst better suited off road would still be no match for the Ranger Raptor

Conclusion:

If you like the blacked out trims as seen in the previous X-Gear which now got more pronounced with the P4X, then I see this as your next ride. If you like the chrome trims and the electric drivers seat etc then your version should be the LE. For me personally, I’ll take the LE as the blacked out look is way too juvenile.

Page 1 pricing has been updated.

As usual, if any errors were made on my part, do let me know so that I can correct where applicable.

NB. In other markets, there are options that we don’t get such as: powered sunroof, powered back glass and rear disc brakes

[agent007]

Note: pics belong to their respective owner(s)

[nick639v2]

Good recap as usual agent...I'm so happy I copped my LE late last year for that discount price came with the xgear headlights and headunit too...My only regret in the newer variant is steering wheel and 7 air bag setup. Other than that it's cosmetics, I despise that new grill alot too so I'm chilling.


(Side note, those who were ever curious about the Mazda CX30, I urge you to get a test drive. Those newer Mazdas are truly gorgeous and their drivability is top tier!)

[Gladiator]

What about the 4 cameras with 360 deg viewing. I saw one agent list that in the pro4X specs...???

[agent007]

Nick, you purchased at the right time! I also wish we had the full compliment of airbags previously, oh well.

Gladiator, you’re right! It’s an oversight on my part. I included it as #26, thanks.

[Gladiator]

Nick, you purchased at the right time! I also wish we had the full compliment of airbags previously, oh well.

Gladiator, you’re right! It’s an oversight on my part. I included it as #26, thanks.

I must say though... it catches your eye. It has that agresive look...

[agent007]

This is the LE version. It has more features than the P4X, has a cleaner more mature look and it’s $14K cheaper. Choice is clear here!

[Gladiator]

IMG_4342.JPG
This is the LE version. It has more features than the P4X, has a cleaner more mature look and it’s $14K cheaper. Choice is clear here!

Hey... do you mind listing the features that the LE has that the P4X does not. The only thing i am seeing is a rim size difference.

[Habit7]

All this hate for Toyota. Their price strategy as odious as it may be is working for them. Any company would like to have customer satisfaction and maximise profits. Local Toyota and Honda brands are doing that thus they can call their own price. And when it is time to resell, a RAV4 and CRV driver would get a better and faster offer than a Tuscon or Sportage. This is not unique to TT it is all over the world.

[nick639v2]

IMG_4342.JPG
This is the LE version. It has more features than the P4X, has a cleaner more mature look and it’s $14K cheaper. Choice is clear here!

Hey... do you mind listing the features that the LE has that the P4X does not. The only thing i am seeing is a rim size difference.

And better seats with heating function

[triniboi49]

IMG_4342.JPG
This is the LE version. It has more features than the P4X, has a cleaner more mature look and it’s $14K cheaper. Choice is clear here!

Hey... do you mind listing the features that the LE has that the P4X does not. The only thing i am seeing is a rim size difference.

And better seats with heating function

Why is the P4X more?

[nick639v2]

IMG_4342.JPG
This is the LE version. It has more features than the P4X, has a cleaner more mature look and it’s $14K cheaper. Choice is clear here!

Hey... do you mind listing the features that the LE has that the P4X does not. The only thing i am seeing is a rim size difference.

And better seats with heating function

Why is the P4X more?

Because people love eye catching trims and the matte black off road boy look I guess.

[Gladiator]

IMG_4342.JPG
This is the LE version. It has more features than the P4X, has a cleaner more mature look and it’s $14K cheaper. Choice is clear here!

Hey... do you mind listing the features that the LE has that the P4X does not. The only thing i am seeing is a rim size difference.

And better seats with heating function

Why is the P4X more?

Because people love eye catching trims and the matte black off road boy look I guess.

[zando]

IMG_4342.JPG
This is the LE version. It has more features than the P4X, has a cleaner more mature look and it’s $14K cheaper. Choice is clear here!

Hey... do you mind listing the features that the LE has that the P4X does not. The only thing i am seeing is a rim size difference.

And better seats with heating function

Why is the P4X more?

Because people love eye catching trims and the matte black off road boy look I guess.

Navara.jpg

For that price I'd rather get the new d-max.

[wing]

IMG_4342.JPG
This is the LE version. It has more features than the P4X, has a cleaner more mature look and it’s $14K cheaper. Choice is clear here!

Hey... do you mind listing the features that the LE has that the P4X does not. The only thing i am seeing is a rim size difference.

And better seats with heating function

Why is the P4X more?

Because people love eye catching trims and the matte black off road boy look I guess.

Navara.jpg

Those prices.....wow. Also lol at what they highlight as features are standard on many vehicles.since 2012.

[agent007]

It appears the 2021 Mitsubishi Xpander is on its way to local showrooms. In your inevitable googling of this vehicle, if you find that it looks familiar, it’s because it was sold here since 2019 in the form of the Nissan Livina. Of course, it’s really a Mitsubishi product as the Livina was just badging.

ANSA wants a piece of that 7 seater market because I’m not sure if Massy still imports said Livina but TTTL still has the Rush and LSM still has the XL-7.

[ProtonPowder]

Gross, it looks like a Toyota Rush, a vehicle with the back silhouette of spongebob squarepants.

[Dave]

Xpander and Livinia come like the BRZ and the 86.

[zando]

Xpander and Livinia come like the BRZ and the 86.

Which one faster?

[Dave]

Same mitsubishi 4a91 engine. Boils down to weight I guess

[agent007]

ROFL @ Proton.

I actually think all 3 look pretty OK, what do you all think?

Common attributes:
7 seats, 1.5 port injected engines with 4AT torque converter transmissions, 2wd, LED lights, fog lights, touch screen head units, rear camera, alloy rims, front disc and rear drum brakes.

Unique attributes:
1. XL7 has 16" rims. The other 2 has 17".
2. Rush is based on a body on frame chassis. The other 2 are unibody.
3. Rush is front engined with rear wheel drive. The engine is mounted longitudinally as in a pickup. The other 2 are front engined, front wheel drive. The engine is transverse mounted as in a car.
4. Rush has 6 airbags. The other 2 has just 2 airbags.
5. Xpander Cross has 225mm ground clearance. The Rush is rated at 220mm and the XL-7 is rated at 200mm.

To put the aforementioned ground clearance claims into perspective, Subaru claimed that their crossover lineup has the best ground clearance in their respective classes, rated at 220mm. This is in fact true, so for Mitsubishi to unleash 225mm, is very impressive. However, that impression can only go so far since a simple Subaru XV with SAWD and X-Mode would take you places those 3 vehicles would only dream to go.

[agent007]

Are you all tired of the word "cross" appearing on a vehicle? Take a look at this snapshot of vehicles with such a word included in its name below. The count is 25 and whilst some are discontinued, I foresee that this trend will continue:

Toyota Yaris Cross
Toyota Corolla Cross
Nissan Dualis Cross Rider
Datsun Cross
Honda Crosstour
Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross
Mitsubishi Xpander Cross
Suzuki Across
Suzuki SX4 S-Cross
Subaru XV Crosstrek
Isuzu D-Max V-Cross
Isuzu VehiCross
Hyundai i20 Cross Sport
Kia KX Cross
Volkswagen T-Cross
Volkswagen Cross Polo
Volkswagen Atlas Cross Sport
Seat Leon Cross Sport
Fiat Panda Cross
Opel/Vauxhall Crossland
Citroen C3 Aircross
Citroen C5 Aircross
Chrysler Crossfire
Ford Figo Cross
Lada X-Ray Cross

[ALady4ALady]

Yes, granted many companies are "lazy" with naming their vehicles, but that is what the public understands.

Crossovers need to be labelled CROSS so the consumer will not call it a "regular uplifted wagon" for more money.

This little contender isn't named "cross"...

[youtube]https://youtu.be/g5JqjNDla_E[/youtube]

This is the BASE model.