T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

[urbandilema]

Amarok 4x4 on sale $299K . It was $350K .
Amarok 4x2 $239K. It was $260K

German engineering .

You can get bed liner, side steps etc. Biggest tray in TT ! Double turbo etc.
It drives like a car when the tray is empty . No side curtains in back though.
Sleek looking .

All international reviews gives it a high rating . Some TT mechanics are saying " no issues "

But not seeing many on the road.

My uncle has one an he say she drives like a beast..full power and best design..if I had cash I would have invest

[drchaos]

Poor resale value would be one of the big things keeping people away.

[RedVEVO]

X-Trail Hybrid $210K to $255K ( Crism )
2 year warranty / 30K KM
AWD or FWD

Drives OK but there is a "rubber band effect" when it moves from electrical to super gas.
When one drives it at 30 km/h or less - you drive in the electric mode. Over that limit then gas mode.
It is not manually switchable.

No one can tell me if there is a problem with the " battery pack " how you can replace, maintain or fix.
All are saying the battery has 8 to 10 years life but no warranty to back up the claim.

Can the battery (lithium-ion battery ) withstand our TT heat ?

And will it perform like the battery in my iPhone ?

Resale value ?

[PariaMan]

Do you really think a rocket scientist will be required to change or fix a battery? Toyota and massy bringing down hybrid meaning that they will be already training their techs who always do work on the side. You are getting a 35% discount on a 350000 vehicle that is about a 100000 in savings. A battery is not gonna cost that much. Massy have the xtrail hybrid and they always keep parts.

Trinidad is not the hottest country in the world far from it.

I still say no brainer to Buy.

[drchaos]

My Li battery died in my wife's nexus 5x after 8 months ...

Trinidad conditions are pretty bad, High heat coupled higher humidity levels which decrease thermal conductivity of the air which means more heat on them batteries. Then the traffic, the hardest thing on your car is traffic. More stop and go would also mean more wear on your Li ion batteries meaning shorter life span as they would be cycling more with discharges and recharges.

[kamakazi]

No brainer.... I need to know how the failsafe mode in these hybrid vehicles work... If and when the electric drive system malfunctions... Cause I want at the very least, to be able to drive it to the nearest dealer.
Besides that
- how long would it take to perform service and repair
- cost involved to perform repair and purchase parts.

Thing is with more components there is the greater possibility of something going wrong.

[PariaMan]

My Li battery died in my wife's nexus 5x after 8 months ...

Trinidad conditions are pretty bad, High heat coupled higher humidity levels which decrease thermal conductivity of the air which means more heat on them batteries. Then the traffic, the hardest thing on your car is traffic. More stop and go would also mean more wear on your Li ion batteries meaning shorter life span as they would be cycling more with discharges and recharges.

My research indicates that the car designers have systems in place to keep the battery cool even when the vehicle is parked (unlike your Nexsus)

These are usually a system of heat sinks and liquid cooling. This again is not new technology.

Remember you engine quickly overheats and destroys itself if not liquid cooled.

[PariaMan]

Tesla for Example

"The reason why Tesla give a warranty of 8 to 10 years for its batteries is mainly due to its ability to maintain the temperature at a desired level. The case is same with the supercharging system as well. To reduce the working temperature of the cables liquid cooling system is utilized."

Nissan Leaf

"The original Nissan LEAF battery tended to degrade quickly, especially in hot, dry climates like Arizona. Even though Nissan redesigned the battery 4 years ago and there have been few complaints since, battery degradation is now an urban legend that continues to haunt the EV marketplace. It’s not unexpected that people might be nervous about the cost of replacing a battery, but experience shows that batteries are far more robust and long lasting than anyone thought a few years ago."

Finally

If you are a belt and suspenders kind of person, you might be wary of a battery operated vehicle still. But the real world data suggests that battery life is mostly a non-issue today. If you want an EV, the best advice you can find comes via Bobby McFerrin: “Don’t worry. Be happy.”

[drchaos]

Like I said Hyundai system seems air cooled so we have to see how it performs in our market.

The two manufacturers you states above are years into this EV/Hybrid game, have had problems and have had time to rectify them. This is Hyundai first foray into a mass market battery operated vehicles. Their previous vehicles with electric/Hybrid drive trains were small numbers and for a few selected markets.

The leaf had an air cooled setup and thats where their problems were, Tesla has always used liquid cooling and the results have been great.

[zando]

Like I said Hyundai system seems air cooled so we have to see how it performs in our market.

The two manufacturers you states above are years into this EV/Hybrid game, have had problems and have had time to rectify them. This is Hyundai first foray into a mass market battery operated vehicles. Their previous vehicles with electric/Hybrid drive trains were small numbers and for a few selected markets.

The leaf had an air cooled setup and thats where their problems were, Tesla has always used liquid cooling and the results have been great.

Just so you kno, hyundai has been developing he ioniq for 10+ years, I'm sure they've learned from others mistakes and made a few new improvements of their own, I for one am confident in the vehicle for at least a 5 or 6 years.

[PariaMan]

Like I said Hyundai system seems air cooled so we have to see how it performs in our market.

The two manufacturers you states above are years into this EV/Hybrid game, have had problems and have had time to rectify them. This is Hyundai first foray into a mass market battery operated vehicles. Their previous vehicles with electric/Hybrid drive trains were small numbers and for a few selected markets.

The leaf had an air cooled setup and thats where their problems were, Tesla has always used liquid cooling and the results have been great.

Careful what you saying Hyundai has been in electric vehicles since 1991 and has sold more than 200000 vehicles

The first pure electric car developed by Hyundai was the Sonata Electric Vehicle in 1991. The car started as a Sonata sedan based model.[103] Hyundai later produced electric vehicles utilizing the Excel, Grace, Accent, Atos and Kia Sportage platforms.

Hyundai planned to have six electric vehicles available for testing by the end of 1992. The company was using batteries from Ovonic Battery Company Inc. in Troy, MI.[104] The Excel and the Sonata were the two different models on which the electric vehicles were based. The vehicles were scheduled to likely be tested in the United States and in Korea.[needs update]

The new hybrid-electric FGV-1 was unveiled at the Seoul Motor Show in 1995. The car featured full-time electric drive technology.[105] The 1995 Hyundai FGV-1 was the result of Hyundai's first experiments with hybrid propulsion systems in 1994.

Hyundai produced its second generation hybrid-electric vehicle in 1999. The company is using the “parallel” type design, which utilizes either the ICE or the electric motor.[105] The FGV-2 was the second vehicle to be produced. Others are the Elantra HEV and the Hyundai Accent HEV, which were unveiled in 1999 and 2000, respectively.[105]

The new hybrid electric Sonata made its debut at the Los Angeles International Auto Show in November 2008. The car featured lithium polymer battery technology.[106] The 2011 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid sales in the U.S. began near the end of February 2011.


The Hyundai BlueOn electric car (Hyundai i10 EV).
Hyundai began producing hybrid electric vehicles in 2009. The company is using Hybrid Blue Drive, which includes lithium polymer batteries, as opposed to lithium-ion.[107][108][109] The Avante was the first vehicle to be produced. Other are the Santa Fe Hybrid, the Elantra, Sonata Hybrid[110] and the Hyundai i20, which will replace the Hyundai Getz.

Hyundai Elantra LPI Hybrid[111] (or Avante in the local market) was launched in the South Korean domestic market in July 2009. The Elantra LPI (Liquefied Petroleum Injected) is the world's first hybrid electric vehicle to be powered by an internal combustion engine built to run on liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) as a fuel. The Elantra PLI is a mild hybrid and the first hybrid to adopt advanced lithium polymer (Li–Poly) batteries.[112][113]

The Hyundai Blue Will plug-in hybrid has made its U.S. debut at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit 2010.[114][115][needs update]

At the 2010 Geneva Motor Show, Hyundai unveiled the i-flow, a concept car using a variant of the BLUE-WILL hybrid system. The i-flow Concept uses a 1.7-liter twin-turbo diesel engine along with electric batteries to achieve fuel economy of 3 litres per 100 kilometres (94 mpg‑imp; 78 mpg‑US). Hyundai says a production car based on the i-flow's design will be in production by 2011.[116]

The Hyundai BlueOn is a subcompact 5-door hatchback electric car produced by Hyundai Motor Company. The prototype, an electric version of i10, was first unveiled at the Frankfurt Motor Show in 2009. The pre-production testing model was unveiled in Seoul in September 2010, when the first of 30 units were delivered to South Korean government agencies for field testing. The carmaker plans to build 2,500 units by the end of 2012. The BlueOn is equipped with a LG 16.4 kWh lithium polymer (Li–Poly) battery pack and charges in 6 hours with a 220 V power outlet and in 25 minutes to 80% with three-phase electric power (in a 380 V outlet). The maximum speed is 130 km/h (81 mph) and 0–100 km/h is achieved in 13.1 seconds. According to Hyundai Motor Company, the total investment to developed the BlueOn, its first production electric car, was around 40 billion won (US$34.3 million).[117][118]

As of March 2014, cumulative global sales totaled 200 thousand hybrids, including both Hyundai Motors and Kia Motors hybrid models.

[drchaos]

Any of those vehicles you listed sold in significantly large numbers in Hot and Humid climates? Not really

Also alot of the vehicles you listed above are prototypes, concept cars, limited production runs and use Ni metal hydride batteries. You real fluff there boy.

This is their first mass production of hybrids and electrics for the world market. So I think caution is advised, but by all means BUY and let us know how you fare sowe can be armed to make better decisions when we decide to buy.

[PariaMan]

Your contention was that this was there first foray is not true.

I think once we have a warranty on the battery change should be embraced and not feared. When I bought my rollon rolloff in 1999 people were full of doubt. Also for the change to fuel injected.

The reality is that while electric and hybrid vehicles are new to Trinidad it is not new to the world

[PariaMan]

So what do we do in Trinidad? Insist on our IC vehicles or do our research and once we are satisfied embrace the new tech.

As I said yes the lesf had initial problems which were sorted out and there is no need to quote that to prove your point

[kamakazi]

If you buy a hybrid in Trinidad now, you will be the tester for the technology and also the dealership and or warranty... BTW anyone know the warranty the local dealerships are offering for their hybrids from the showroom

[drchaos]

Your contention was that this was there first foray is not true.

I think once we have a warranty on the battery change should be embraced and not feared. When I bought my rollon rolloff in 1999 people were full of doubt. Also for the change to fuel injected.

The reality is that while electric and hybrid vehicles are new to Trinidad it is not new to the world

Like you having trouble reading what I posted ... I said this is their first foray into a mass market vehicle meaning worldwide.

You have yet to show where hyundai has done this before the ioniq. What you have listed so far is alot of fluff vehicles they have made. Which is just wasting space on the forum.

[drchaos]

If you buy a hybrid in Trinidad now, you will be the tester for the technology and also the dealership and or warranty... BTW anyone know the warranty the local dealerships are offering for their hybrids from the showroom

Agreed! Thats all I'm saying.

[RedVEVO]

X-trail Hybrid $210K to $255 :
Warranty 2 years , 30,000 Km (Crism)

All I am saying is that the lithium-ion battery located in the cargo area does not carry a warranty like a normal car battery.
The heat in TT especially in traffic and with A/C give the normal battery a beating but it's warranty is 1-3 years and easy to replace and
inexpensive .

The lithium-ion battery in the cargo area is not a simple replace . Where can you get to purchase , if need to replace ?

I asked a salesman & technician to disconnect the lithium-ion battery in the cargo area and let us see how the X-trail performs.

They went into a coma and I still waiting for the demonstration .

Then the resale value . How is a person going to know when that lithium-ion battery going to fail ? And it will fail . It is a battery .

[PariaMan]

Sales of Hyundai and Kia in Hybrid and EV world wide

1. 2011 30600
2.2012 63000
3. 2013 64000
4. 2015 73000

4th placed world wide in terms of total sales.

The Sonata Hybrid was introduced in 2011 in the USA and has been doing very well
2012 2013 2014 2015
30,838 35,680 34,828 30500

THis is not there first foray very far from that.

I think that we have to be concerned about how the dealership deals with the warranty.

What we do not have to be concerned about is

1. First Foray
2. The incident with the nissan leaf

[PariaMan]

[quote="RedVEVO"]X-trail Hybrid $210K to $255 :
Warranty 2 years , 30,000 Km (Crism)

All I am saying is that the lithium-ion battery located in the cargo area does not carry a warranty like a normal car battery.
The heat in TT especially in traffic and with A/C give the normal battery a beating but it's warranty is 1-3 years and easy to replace and
inexpensive .

In my research most manufacturers give a warranty on the battery of around eight years in other countries. Some give warranty on degradation as well some do not.
I understand Massy is bringing down the XTRAIL Hybrid I will call to see what their warranty is

If I was buying the XTRAIL I would buy from MASSY!

[drchaos]

I think paria man drunk? He keep harping on about a hybrid vehicle that Hyundai only released to the US? Real mass market vehicle there boy!

Air cooled li batteries for vehicle application have also been knocked by Elon Musk.

[PariaMan]

What about them being fourth world wide in hybrid and ev sales. As I said there are issues but not the fact that it is a Hyundai. Our bigger issue will be the warranty . Once the warranty is like the rest of The world meaning lifetime of the car and the dealer respects the warranty we are good to go

[drchaos]

What about them being fourth world wide in hybrid and ev sales. As I said there are issues but not the fact that it is a Hyundai. Our bigger issue will be the warranty . Once the warranty is like the rest of The world meaning lifetime of the car and the dealer respects the warranty we are good to go

Yeah agreed on the warranty! That will be a deal maker or deal breaker here.

Where are you getting your statistics from for worldwide hybrids and EV sales that says Hyundai is number 4? Worldwide EV sales Hyundai not even in the top 10. In the states hyundai controls about 4% of the hybrid electric market.

I have been unable to find a credible source making a claim of 4th worldwide in EV/Hybrid sales. Please provide your source.

[PariaMan]

http://www.korea.net/NewsFocus/Business ... eId=132113

[drchaos]

Good stats! Still very low volume.

Any revised stats since 2016 cause the article is about 2015? Tesla sales numbers have been growing through the roof.

[PariaMan]

Tesla 2016 76230

[PariaMan]

Went to see the IONIQ very nice on the outside. I find they could of done more on the inside. Also looked at the Mazda 3. Very classy inside and out. Asked about the hybrid the lady said that there has been some talk but nothing definite yet

[drchaos]

Went to their Test Drive event for the Ioniq in Chaguanas. They were only allowing test drives in the car park.
Battery warranty is 10 years BUT only covers battery failure and not degradation. Probably won't happen .... but if after 6 months your battery only holding 20% of its original charge massy and hyundai don't care. So good and bad there.

Electric mode is eerily smooth and quiet and when the engines comes on you can barely feel it. Could not feel any significant regen braking but I could see power going from the wheels to the battery when foot was off the pedal. Suspension was nice, handled the potholes in the car park well. Drove around the car park for around 7 mins and the battery gauge didn't budge. Also has a nice temp gauge for the Li batteries so you can know if things getting a bit sticky.

Massy reps did make a point to not let anyone outside the firm service your car because they can die if they mess with the high voltage wires and power distribution unit and they could mess up the electronics. Sadly the service interval is still 5000K's as with all Hyundai's and would cost between 1000 to 1300 dollars.

At 170 the low end model seems like a good buy ... Don't know how they gonna sell elantra's at this price point.

[bess almera]

New Ford Focus eco boost.

Looks impressive.

[drchaos]

Ford finally decide to throw us plebs some turbo powah!