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Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby DVSTT » March 25th, 2013, 8:11 pm

Just watched the CNC3 news report on the event. Powell said he averaged over 130mph :O. Imagine what those WRC cars were clocking!

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby turbohead » March 25th, 2013, 8:27 pm

if them eh have license for rum then close the flecking bar and allow the event. i really made a good choice, i stayed and watched meh f1...

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby foss » March 25th, 2013, 8:30 pm

turbohead wrote:if them eh have license for rum then close the flecking bar and allow the event. i really made a good choice, i stayed and watched meh f1...


you weren't missed :wink:

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby Aaron 2NR » March 25th, 2013, 8:48 pm

my personal fav shot of RT13

Image

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby Shifter Kart » March 25th, 2013, 8:54 pm

DVSTT wrote:Just watched the CNC3 news report on the event. Powell said he averaged over 130mph :O. Imagine what those WRC cars were clocking!

WRC cars are typically geared much shorter than grp n cars, so i'd say they were getting around 100-120mph

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby dumplin » March 25th, 2013, 8:59 pm

Good night folks...as is the typical TnT culture to bump our gums on matters that are unclear and have limited facts and details involved. I have been a staunch supporter of the TTRC for the last few years and what happened yesterday can't be taken lightly,this is an international event that has for years been a major source of sports tourism. Imagine fans,rally enthusiasts,teams and there crews from Jamaica,the Uk,Barbados and other nations have come here and spent 10's of thousands of dollars on our local economy in less than a week,whatever the issue may have been it is absolutely intolerable what the Police Service has done here,u can go on and say the police did there job,the ttrc and/or bar was at fault,but lets wait to get the facts before we continue with idiotic comments.Lets not forget what this sport teaches to society:

Teamwork: Drivers,Navigators,Mechanics,Crews and Sponsors all working in sync,all whom depend on each-others services.

Unity:The sport brings teams and fans from different nations together of which the universal goal is having a great and safe event. Over the last 3 years i have built friendships from right here in the Caribbean islands to as far as Ireland,this could not be accomplished if it was not for the TTRC! Furthermore look at Betts Motorsport who borrowed parts from different competitors to complete the event,UNITY!

Its easy to sit behind a computer screen and type away,we are all heartbroken and angered at the situation,this doesn't warrant some of the statements that the public has made. If u only knew what the executive of the Rally Club has to do for this event to take place,behind the final result there is months of long days and late nights of planning and organization,so please keep the lambasting to a minimum and wait to hear what took place,if i was a betting man i would say something more was definitely involved that a simple bar license issue,dont u think its funny they waited for the very last moment to take this action?

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby dante1986 » March 25th, 2013, 9:11 pm

same thing I saying say what everything is politics

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby kurpal_v2 » March 25th, 2013, 9:16 pm

Aaron 2NR wrote:my personal fav shot of RT13

Image





Quite simply the best pic I've seen from rtnt this year

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby csl » March 25th, 2013, 9:17 pm

well said dumplin

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby nere » March 25th, 2013, 9:18 pm

So very true dumplin it easy for some this clowns to just type away and lambast the club who do not know what takes place in planning and organising and also trying to have a full crew of marshals to work the stages to keep everyone as safe as possible.
So instead of lambasting the club wait for an explaination from them and how they plan to deal with situation in the best possible way.

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby ryno_sounds » March 25th, 2013, 9:47 pm

I found that to be so embarrassing for us Trinidadians......We really need to stand up for ourselves more....An international event shut down because of a bar license??......The Police treated the TTRC as if they were criminals....... You should of seen them coming in with their guns and loud sirens as the event was going to start......If they could only be as responsive like that concerning actual crime in T&T.....I wonder what Anil Roberts have to say about this matter?? As far as i can see he hasn't done anything to support Motorsports In Trinidad and Tobago.

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby nere » March 25th, 2013, 10:05 pm

And i sure he will not...not till the cars could hold ah bat and ball or kick one then maybe he will

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby gas brainz » March 25th, 2013, 10:48 pm

rcadiz wrote:Ok, well as i can see the rumour mill has started and although i welcome all the opinions and feedback from everyone let's get a few things cleared up.

Firstly the TTRC will be making a full statement when we can get all the facts. i have just spent the last 3 hours in Marabella Police Station and we have still not gotten the full story. Let's go with what we know. The Police shut the event down due to an issue with the strength and bar license. From what we have been told there were a few courses of action that could have taken place:
- Shut the bar down and let the event continue - under normal circumstances
- Shut the event down if the safety of the event is compromised and there is an obvious lack of resources in which to deal with problems that may arise - also under normal circumstances.
- Ask no questions, walk in shut down walk out - slightly harsh course of action given the nature of the event (i.e sporting event, not a concert with bad language from the artiste and violent patrons)

We have been hosting events with an almost perfect safety record for a number of years and today there were very few safety concerns - further to that the racing hadn't even started as yet to even allow for a safety concern to become apparent. On the note of the public toilet, you may have seen that our sponsored toilets - 15 scattered around the venue were all light brown and from JQ and the one being referred to was in fact a UDECOTT rented Toilet which was locked and not part of our setup and behind a concrete culvert (just to clarify). It was also in an area requiring the complete slow down of the car due to the tight turn (after the pic of course)

No fights, no violence, a crowd made up of mostly families and friends liming on the outskirts does not suggest a risk of crowd or drunk partygoers who need to be dealt with. With respect to the bar license, we have never had an issue like this in the years of Rally Trinidad and i would like to assure all who are wondering that it was not an oversight nor forgetting. In fact the bar license was applied for both Friday and Sunday night at the same time. Rather there was a misunderstanding which we are looking into. The fact is that the Police were well within their right to allow the event to continue, but shut the whole event down without so much as options being considered.

6 jeeps of riot gear heavily armed Police were sent in to deal with a 20x20 tented bar (staff of 5) in a crowd of mostly people simply wanting to enjoy the afternoon of racing. They arrived and jumped out of the vehicles loading weapons like if it was a bank heist. If you don't think that is excessive then it's entirely your opinion but i think most would agree.

On the door charge. I think all would agree that the TTRC has began to offer more to our patrons with the event infrastructure and logistics (i.e. National Stadium on Friday night) and we simply charge a small fee to help offset the cost. Anyone who has experience with events would know the cost of stage, lighting, sound, fencing, signage etc etc. Furthermore a $100 per carload (roughly $20 per head) is in no way a 'big money ting' as some would say. How many $20-$40 events by comparison do issue receipts? Refunding was not possible today but that does not mean that we do not intend to make it up somehow.

What we can say however is that we will be getting to the bottom of what can be described as an excessive decision by the TTPS, and looking ahead we will be planning an event with the same level of logistics with no door charge and do our best to make amends to the spectators that came out and supported us in somewhat vain.

There will be critics but i think they are limited. We have a great sport and an even greater spectator base who i think will understand that we were powerless to change the course of events today but can only promise to make it up.

On the stages today being cancelled. We were met with 3 large loads of garbage in 'Jack and Jill while setting up this morning (probably dumped last night) and ran late trying to get equipment to move it. We needed to get the cars to Tarouba and the only decision that we had was to cancel the stages. If we put any of you in the same situation i am sure the result would be the same. Disappointing yes but an unavoidable logistical issue.

To close we would like everyone to be reassured that we will bounce back from this and we will make it up to everyone. We can only ask for your understanding.

well said couldnt b better

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby rollingstock » March 26th, 2013, 9:40 am

Aaron 2NR wrote:
SR wrote:So rollin stock shows his true colors.....and runs off to personal attacks


nothing new. when ppl cant find validity in their statements and cannot support a point, they get emo and beat up


And a lot of the fools that disagree with what i posted have no idea how the licensing procedure works but will bump their gums, and worst yet fail to see that the police acted with a degree of compassion by not prosecuting anyone for the offence.

I attended the rally and enjoyed myself, sad that at the eleventh hour something as this happened, but the blame lies squarely at the feet of the organisers, and even this they must be commended for still holding a successful and entertaining rally, but why the demonising of the police?

But anyway i digress from the topic so my apologies to all the perfect people on tuner.

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby ~*Pãñdorą*~ » March 26th, 2013, 9:50 am

Nah RS..
Yuh edited yuh post before I could quote!!

I knew we had little boys on the forum, but I didn't realise they were that petty!!

Kicking up a girl's car and cursing at her?! He does wife beat too nah?!

De Phoq!!

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby TriTime » March 26th, 2013, 9:51 am

gas brainz wrote:
rcadiz wrote:Ok, well as i can see the rumour mill has started and although i welcome all the opinions and feedback from everyone let's get a few things cleared up.

Firstly the TTRC will be making a full statement when we can get all the facts. i have just spent the last 3 hours in Marabella Police Station and we have still not gotten the full story. Let's go with what we know. The Police shut the event down due to an issue with the strength and bar license. From what we have been told there were a few courses of action that could have taken place:
- Shut the bar down and let the event continue - under normal circumstances
- Shut the event down if the safety of the event is compromised and there is an obvious lack of resources in which to deal with problems that may arise - also under normal circumstances.
- Ask no questions, walk in shut down walk out - slightly harsh course of action given the nature of the event (i.e sporting event, not a concert with bad language from the artiste and violent patrons)

We have been hosting events with an almost perfect safety record for a number of years and today there were very few safety concerns - further to that the racing hadn't even started as yet to even allow for a safety concern to become apparent. On the note of the public toilet, you may have seen that our sponsored toilets - 15 scattered around the venue were all light brown and from JQ and the one being referred to was in fact a UDECOTT rented Toilet which was locked and not part of our setup and behind a concrete culvert (just to clarify). It was also in an area requiring the complete slow down of the car due to the tight turn (after the pic of course)

No fights, no violence, a crowd made up of mostly families and friends liming on the outskirts does not suggest a risk of crowd or drunk partygoers who need to be dealt with. With respect to the bar license, we have never had an issue like this in the years of Rally Trinidad and i would like to assure all who are wondering that it was not an oversight nor forgetting. In fact the bar license was applied for both Friday and Sunday night at the same time. Rather there was a misunderstanding which we are looking into. The fact is that the Police were well within their right to allow the event to continue, but shut the whole event down without so much as options being considered.

6 jeeps of riot gear heavily armed Police were sent in to deal with a 20x20 tented bar (staff of 5) in a crowd of mostly people simply wanting to enjoy the afternoon of racing. They arrived and jumped out of the vehicles loading weapons like if it was a bank heist. If you don't think that is excessive then it's entirely your opinion but i think most would agree.

On the door charge. I think all would agree that the TTRC has began to offer more to our patrons with the event infrastructure and logistics (i.e. National Stadium on Friday night) and we simply charge a small fee to help offset the cost. Anyone who has experience with events would know the cost of stage, lighting, sound, fencing, signage etc etc. Furthermore a $100 per carload (roughly $20 per head) is in no way a 'big money ting' as some would say. How many $20-$40 events by comparison do issue receipts? Refunding was not possible today but that does not mean that we do not intend to make it up somehow.

What we can say however is that we will be getting to the bottom of what can be described as an excessive decision by the TTPS, and looking ahead we will be planning an event with the same level of logistics with no door charge and do our best to make amends to the spectators that came out and supported us in somewhat vain.

There will be critics but i think they are limited. We have a great sport and an even greater spectator base who i think will understand that we were powerless to change the course of events today but can only promise to make it up.

On the stages today being cancelled. We were met with 3 large loads of garbage in 'Jack and Jill while setting up this morning (probably dumped last night) and ran late trying to get equipment to move it. We needed to get the cars to Tarouba and the only decision that we had was to cancel the stages. If we put any of you in the same situation i am sure the result would be the same. Disappointing yes but an unavoidable logistical issue.

To close we would like everyone to be reassured that we will bounce back from this and we will make it up to everyone. We can only ask for your understanding.

well said couldnt b better


well said!

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby rollingstock » March 26th, 2013, 10:02 am

~*Pãñdorą*~ wrote:Nah RS..
Yuh edited yuh post before I could quote!!

I knew we had little boys on the forum, but I didn't realise they were that petty!!

Kicking up a girl's car and cursing at her?! He does wife beat too nah?!

De Phoq!!


I did not edit my post.

All i posted was the truth (which offends)

Sorry that people have a problem with police tactics but when dealing with a crowd,especially one where persons were consuming alcohol, it is best to approach it with a show of force to forego anyone wanting to cause trouble instead of using a diplomatic approach and having a few persons rile up a crowd of hundreds because they see you as soft or a pushover.

In an instance like this no bribe had to pass, police just did what they had to and most likely were following instructions.

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby AutoSport » March 26th, 2013, 10:25 am

Officer Rollinstock, Must pay full compliments to your team, especially strategy.

This is Rallying and the timing was perfect, down to the second, just before the first Rally cars were to set off in competition.

But never could understand how in so many big drug raids, the Police always able to get kilos of illegal drugs, and the suspect always manage to escape.

Your point “to forego anyone wanting to cause trouble instead of using a diplomatic approach”. Why did this team not come at 1:00 pm, or 2:00pm or 3pm, longggggg before the crowds started to build up?

“Police just did what they had to and most likely were following instructions.”
This is so accurate. Instructions from whom? How high up? Again I remind allo f the Arima Gran Prix in 2011.

It is already confirmed that similar situations have occurred in the past, especially at fetes, and the senior officer simply spoke to the Bar management, when no licence was produced, they just shut down the bar.

The team looked real great, best display of force and arms. Really impressive.
This has done a ton of good for MotorSport in Trinidad and Tobago.
Will do great things to build Sports Tourism.
And surely make us look even better amongst our Caribbean brothers.

Send our best wishes to your Team Officer Rollingstock!

I sincerely believe this to be the truth, so it should not offend.....

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby rollingstock » March 26th, 2013, 10:27 am

Your condescending tone is not lost on me.

All i can say is that you are an ass and hard luck.

Best wishes in the future with your endeavors.

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby AutoSport » March 26th, 2013, 10:32 am

Oh my, but why are you offended?

Another great display and fine example of what exists in our "To protect and Serve" security system.

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby tr1ad » March 26th, 2013, 10:35 am

easy there stock

that's the polite and politically correct response to your post

and he's spot on

if you have chosen to represent the protective services in this situation, or voice how it was handled, there will be questions, condescending tone or not

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby rollingstock » March 26th, 2013, 10:35 am

Not offended just stating a fact as i garner from your post.

If you knew me you would know that i am forthright and unafraid to say what is on my mind, but am rarely miffed. This has worked best for me in the geological area i operate from. Excuse me for being blunt but that is the way i am.

It seems you are hurting from the cancellation of the event dbu

edited: this is directed at autosport.

Again triad i have nothing against the organisers of the rally and in no way do i represent the police service. I felt compelled to defend the service from the misrepresentation of uneducated users.

Maybe my direct and what may be construed as offensive way of replying may need some work ( i do recognise my shortfalls) may have offended some persons but they can pick the sense from nonsense and try to understand what i posted and the pertinent information within.

Seems persons were more angry with the police for doing their jobs and not with the organisers for their grave oversight which was the primary cause of the problem.

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby AutoSport » March 26th, 2013, 11:00 am

rollingstock wrote:Not offended just stating a fact as i garner from your post.

If you knew me you would know that i am forthright and unafraid to say what is on my mind, but am rarely miffed. This has worked best for me in the geological area i operate from. Excuse me for being blunt but that is the way i am.

It seems you are hurting from the cancellation of the event dbu

edited: this is directed at autosport.

Again triad i have nothing against the organisers of the rally and in no way do i represent the police service. I felt compelled to defend the service from the misrepresentation of uneducated users.

Maybe my direct and what may be construed as offensive way of replying may need some work ( i do recognise my shortfalls) may have offended some persons but they can pick the sense from nonsense and try to understand what i posted and the pertinent information within.

Seems persons were more angry with the police for doing their jobs and not with the organisers for their grave oversight which was the primary cause of the problem.


Seems as though only you have the right to be offended when other are also blunt and direct.

Please do not over look my statement of what has occurred in the past re no bar licence - shut the bar down. Police still doing their work.

And the facts will eventually reveal that there was absolutely no intent on the organizers of breaching or deceiving anyone or any official or any legal entity. An oversight occurred and in this instance it became fatal. And this has happened many times before all over the world.

Look at the great Panton from Jamaica. Best team, best equipment, best crew. Several years ago, leading Rally Jamaica overnight. First stage next morning, out like a bullet, and then the car shut down. The mechanic checked everything, adjust everything, tighten up everything, and then took a rest. And forgot to gas up the car!

You have fallen into the trap of not too many here, of shooting your mouth off without fully understanding the issues being raised.

The organizers politely dialoged with the officers on their arrival, but they were not in "listening mode", and herein lies a lot of the problem with our protective services - and you just confirmed it again.

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby Computerman » March 26th, 2013, 11:08 am

rollingstock wrote:Seems persons were more angry with the police for doing their jobs and not with the organisers for their grave oversight which was the primary cause of the problem.
I don't think ppl would be angry with the police if they did their jobs! :!:

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby rollingstock » March 26th, 2013, 11:14 am

And maybe you can't read and understand?

Where did i blame the organisers, as i previously stated, i attended and was impressed and entertained, hated to see it ended like that. But the attack on the officers were unwarranted.They don't just take it on themselves to carry out that action.

If there are any nefarious reasons i cannot comment on that just what is presented and can be proven. No liquor licence = immediate cancellation of event and arrest of organisers and persons offering it for sale.

I thought it commendable that if the officers detected an offence but may have recognised that an oversight may have occurred that they took just the action that they did.


I may be guilty of ascribing my own attitude on others. I do not take anything personally especially on a website, and am aware that i post in a manner that may be construed as offensive. I should recognise that persons here would not know me personally. I had a few 'run ins' with tr1ad but never took it personally even the bans, and have assisted many users here with personal matters for no gain.

Take it as you all may, i wasn't offended but felt compelled to try to defend teh police, but have come to realise that no matter what, persons hate the police, rightfully in most cases but hate to see them face a bum rap undeservedly.

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby AutoSport » March 26th, 2013, 11:35 am

Breds if you go and read over your last post you will see, where YOU are now agreeing with most of the critical comments being made against your own team- slowly coming down off your high horse.

Just look at what you are now saying..."persons hate the police, rightfully in most cases"

But yuh very wrong in saying no bar licence shut down the event. But that is the standard show of force.

Anyway, moving forward, the TTRC will continue to receive the fullest support of all Genuine Motorsport lovers within the Motorsport Community!

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby rollingstock » March 26th, 2013, 11:49 am

AutoSport wrote:Breds if you go and read over your last post you will see, where YOU are now agreeing with most of the critical comments being made against your own team- slowly coming down off your high horse.

You must be reading something else.

Just look at what you are now saying..."persons hate the police, rightfully in most cases"

But yuh very wrong in saying no bar licence shut down the event. But that is the standard show of force.

And pray tell what did? I'm not into motorsport for the politics so that doesn't concern me, i'm just going by what was reported. If you have information to the contrary and keep it to yourself, how can i be blamed for my stance?

Anyway, moving forward, the TTRC will continue to receive the fullest support of all Genuine Motorsport lovers within the Motorsport Community!

Are you insinuating that i am not a 'genuine' motor sport lover? I was never critical of the TTRC, i just defended the officers on the facts reported.


It is apparent that there is no winning fighting a losing conversation with a clique with ulterior political motives wrt motorsport.

So in closing i agree fcuk the police.

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby Computerman » March 26th, 2013, 12:16 pm

rollingstock wrote:It is apparent that there is no winning fighting a losing conversation with a clique with ulterior political motives wrt motorsport.

So in closing i agree fcuk the police.
Your attitude, as it relates to your posts in this thread, has been utterly disgraceful.


rollingstock wrote:Take it as you all may, i wasn't offended but felt compelled to try to defend teh police, but have come to realise that no matter what, persons hate the police, rightfully in most cases but hate to see them face a bum rap undeservedly.

Special weapons and tactics team ideas grew out of anti-terrorism efforts in the 60’s & 70′s. It is about using overwhelming force in police work when there is a perceived threat. This is a a tactic more appropriate to soldiers on an actual battlefield. SWAT tactics mentality has no place on public streets, where it places “officer safety” above the duty to protect the innocent. This impression is reinforced when the officers and officials behind the raids are not held to account when things go wrong! Do the police have more value than that of a citizen? Do we distinguish between citizens in their own environment and foreign nationals? Do the police, as agents of the state, deserve special privileges denied to citizens? The militarized attitudes and lack of accountability that fosters an “us versus them” divide between police and public must change if law enforcement is to regain the trust and respect the profession once had (if it ever did) in the eyes of the public.

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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby AutoSport » March 26th, 2013, 12:50 pm

Computerman wrote:
rollingstock wrote:It is apparent that there is no winning fighting a losing conversation with a clique with ulterior political motives wrt motorsport.

So in closing i agree fcuk the police.
Your attitude, as it relates to your posts in this thread, has been utterly disgraceful.


rollingstock wrote:Take it as you all may, i wasn't offended but felt compelled to try to defend teh police, but have come to realise that no matter what, persons hate the police, rightfully in most cases but hate to see them face a bum rap undeservedly.

Special weapons and tactics team ideas grew out of anti-terrorism efforts in the 60’s & 70′s. It is about using overwhelming force in police work when there is a perceived threat. This is a a tactic more appropriate to soldiers on an actual battlefield. SWAT tactics mentality has no place on public streets, where it places “officer safety” above the duty to protect the innocent. This impression is reinforced when the officers and officials behind the raids are not held to account when things go wrong! Do the police have more value than that of a citizen? Do we distinguish between citizens in their own environment and foreign nationals? Do the police, as agents of the state, deserve special privileges denied to citizens? The militarized attitudes and lack of accountability that fosters an “us versus them” divide between police and public must change if law enforcement is to regain the trust and respect the profession once had (if it ever did) in the eyes of the public.

Mr. Computerman, I wish what you said could really be understood by Mr. Rollingstock.

And look at how he again goes off on another assumption.... "with a clique with ulterior political motives wrt motorsport."

The ulterior political motives were unleashed on all of MotorSport at the Arima Gran Prix, Easter 2011. That will never be forgotten. Where were you then?

Even worse making statements on what he perceived, and then asking if my comments are on facts not stated here. My statements are based on facts, that the Police know.

Again when he can't comprehend even what he is saying, look at his proud final statement towards his own. We shall pray for him and his team.

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rebound
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Re: Rally Trinidad 22-24th March 2013

Postby rebound » March 26th, 2013, 1:13 pm

Yes, let us pray for the soul who believes deep down that he is fighting for a cause against the "demonising" of the police, but makes threatening, classless comments that exposes his qualities
AutoSport wrote:
Computerman wrote:
rollingstock wrote:It is apparent that there is no winning fighting a losing conversation with a clique with ulterior political motives wrt motorsport.

So in closing i agree fcuk the police.
Your attitude, as it relates to your posts in this thread, has been utterly disgraceful.


rollingstock wrote:Take it as you all may, i wasn't offended but felt compelled to try to defend teh police, but have come to realise that no matter what, persons hate the police, rightfully in most cases but hate to see them face a bum rap undeservedly.

Special weapons and tactics team ideas grew out of anti-terrorism efforts in the 60’s & 70′s. It is about using overwhelming force in police work when there is a perceived threat. This is a a tactic more appropriate to soldiers on an actual battlefield. SWAT tactics mentality has no place on public streets, where it places “officer safety” above the duty to protect the innocent. This impression is reinforced when the officers and officials behind the raids are not held to account when things go wrong! Do the police have more value than that of a citizen? Do we distinguish between citizens in their own environment and foreign nationals? Do the police, as agents of the state, deserve special privileges denied to citizens? The militarized attitudes and lack of accountability that fosters an “us versus them” divide between police and public must change if law enforcement is to regain the trust and respect the profession once had (if it ever did) in the eyes of the public.

Mr. Computerman, I wish what you said could really be understood by Mr. Rollingstock.

And look at how he again goes off on another assumption.... "with a clique with ulterior political motives wrt motorsport."

The ulterior political motives were unleashed on all of MotorSport at the Arima Gran Prix, Easter 2011. That will never be forgotten. Where were you then?

Even worse making statements on what he perceived, and then asking if my comments are on facts not stated here. My statements are based on facts, that the Police know.

Again when he can't comprehend even what he is saying, look at his proud final statement towards his own. We shall pray for him and his team.

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