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Which sub fow lows?

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby ruffneck_12 » February 7th, 2023, 9:42 am

nervewrecker wrote:
sMASH wrote:
nervewrecker wrote:
sMASH wrote:I don't understand lyrics in songs much, but u see noise in the plant, I pick up the slightest deviation in pitch, tone, level, pattern... Even if is background. Like I monitor is subconsciously and pick up on it like dogs.



But what I was trying to show, is that rovin ability to hear the difference in full bridge and half bridge, has some explanation.

I personality don't have enough exposure to different systems, to detect any difference.

Once it eh buzzing, I usually gud.
Listen off one amp for a long while and then swap for another. You will hear differences.

As a younger guy in the hobby everything sounded the same. After graduating to higher end stuff when I took a listen to the stuff I had before it was night and day.

You will not hear it right away or you swap a week apart.

I thought was just me does pick up on differences in sounds from motors and turbines amongst all the noise on the plant. Even the tone of the sound emanating from a power transformer says a lot.
Nah nah nah. Every moving part has its signature.

Some are more distinct than others.



If u ever watch the series 'the expanse', that mechanical quirk plays a significant part in the show.
Finally someone I can converse with. When I tell people if you listen carefully the machines speak to you they think I'm crazy. But as of late a lot of people have me questioning my sanity and they tend to be in large numbers.

Truth be told, I don't even recall the last time I watched tv or seen a movie. Only this week a friend took me out to see a movie but prior to that, I can't recall when last.


Even powersupplies have a sound.

I have a phone charger that makes a different faint high pitch whine depending on the load. Inductor whine.
And some graphics cards have inductor whine issues at high load as well.

I kinda on the fence with this, everything really does have a characteristic sound. But I believe a good manufacturer can engineer out those things. Maybe I hadda listen to more amps.

I just have experience with material resonances and speakers/boxes themselves having distinctive timbres due to how the material itself resonates.
A paper cone speaker sounds more natural than a plastic cone.
Silk/plastic dome tweeters are less harsh than metal diaphragm.
Metal guitar strings have more upper end zing than nylon.


timelapse wrote:
rollingstock wrote:I rate the Pyle driver with the bump on the motor more than the funky pop. Cerwin Vega did the orange surround better too.
Two words my guy:
Nippon America


Fax as well.
I had a ten inch with the opaque white cone, Purple foam surround.... Suspension was loose as a MF but that FS was low as hell dread.

Had it in a 2cft box on like 10watts of power and it used to shake my groove ply wall VISIBLY

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby sMASH » February 7th, 2023, 11:44 am

ruffneck_12 wrote:
nervewrecker wrote:
sMASH wrote:
nervewrecker wrote:
sMASH wrote:I don't understand lyrics in songs much, but u see noise in the plant, I pick up the slightest deviation in pitch, tone, level, pattern... Even if is background. Like I monitor is subconsciously and pick up on it like dogs.



But what I was trying to show, is that rovin ability to hear the difference in full bridge and half bridge, has some explanation.

I personality don't have enough exposure to different systems, to detect any difference.

Once it eh buzzing, I usually gud.
Listen off one amp for a long while and then swap for another. You will hear differences.

As a younger guy in the hobby everything sounded the same. After graduating to higher end stuff when I took a listen to the stuff I had before it was night and day.

You will not hear it right away or you swap a week apart.

I thought was just me does pick up on differences in sounds from motors and turbines amongst all the noise on the plant. Even the tone of the sound emanating from a power transformer says a lot.
Nah nah nah. Every moving part has its signature.

Some are more distinct than others.



If u ever watch the series 'the expanse', that mechanical quirk plays a significant part in the show.
Finally someone I can converse with. When I tell people if you listen carefully the machines speak to you they think I'm crazy. But as of late a lot of people have me questioning my sanity and they tend to be in large numbers.

Truth be told, I don't even recall the last time I watched tv or seen a movie. Only this week a friend took me out to see a movie but prior to that, I can't recall when last.


Even powersupplies have a sound.

I have a phone charger that makes a different faint high pitch whine depending on the load. Inductor whine.
And some graphics cards have inductor whine issues at high load as well.

I kinda on the fence with this, everything really does have a characteristic sound. But I believe a good manufacturer can engineer out those things. Maybe I hadda listen to more amps.

I just have experience with material resonances and speakers/boxes themselves having distinctive timbres due to how the material itself resonates.
A paper cone speaker sounds more natural than a plastic cone.
Silk/plastic dome tweeters are less harsh than metal diaphragm.
Metal guitar strings have more upper end zing than nylon.


timelapse wrote:
rollingstock wrote:I rate the Pyle driver with the bump on the motor more than the funky pop. Cerwin Vega did the orange surround better too.
Two words my guy:
Nippon America


Fax as well.
I had a ten inch with the opaque white cone, Purple foam surround.... Suspension was loose as a MF but that FS was low as hell dread.

Had it in a 2cft box on like 10watts of power and it used to shake my groove ply wall VISIBLY
Aiming fur that effect, but with 3krms

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby Rovin » February 7th, 2023, 11:54 am

15yrs ago i used to shake d ground with d 15 in my wagon on 2500rms ... tonal & smooth, no crix pan bass bisnis

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby sMASH » February 7th, 2023, 1:32 pm

The xxx?

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby Rovin » February 7th, 2023, 2:26 pm

no name , had it custom order built in d usa ...

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby sMASH » February 7th, 2023, 4:22 pm

When yuh big yuh large.

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby Rovin » February 7th, 2023, 6:25 pm

at d time us$ was readily available & iirc was around tt5 to 1 so it was worked out better to bring in compared to d local prices & variety ...

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby ruffneck_12 » February 10th, 2023, 1:09 pm

Rovin wrote:at d time us$ was readily available & iirc was around tt5 to 1 so it was worked out better to bring in compared to d local prices & variety ...



Rovin, I try to view prices from 2003 and it was still >$6 :lol:

U in this game long boi :'(

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby Rovin » February 10th, 2023, 1:30 pm

i cant remember if was $5-6, dise over 15yrs ago ...

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby sMASH » February 20th, 2023, 12:13 pm

Proof of Concept.
For an 8"

1/4 wave/ flared horn.

8ft path length.
IMG_20230220_121015.jpg

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby ruffneck_12 » February 22nd, 2023, 9:10 am

What sub and what environment it's going in?

Also you have a graph of the expected output?

Also your toe rel long hoss :lol:

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby sMASH » February 22nd, 2023, 9:23 am

In a y12

5.4 cuft.

Not loud, but shaking the tailgate and wiper,
And traveling.


It wired to 2ohm, but running it on a bridged 2 Chanel... That suposed to only be seeing 4ohm

It getting only 200rms, but it reaching a good amount xmax easy. So not over doing it. Driver spec says 300rms.

The Amp not giving any problems, so not sure if the Amp reall good at the lower than recommended impedance or that the driver is coupled well enough that I getting impedance rise.

It not impressive. But the bass traveling.



Mixed results,

I played with the lpf and slope on the deck and got it to behave a bit more.
I hadda put a bass Amp with a subsonic filter to properly protect it. And then I'll see if I can send it a bit more.


When I get the next Amp in, I'll do a vid, and u can get an idea with headphones.


IMG_20230221_145250.jpg
IMG_20230221_143531.jpg

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby ruffneck_12 » February 22nd, 2023, 10:31 am

Looks good tho dawg, plus it thin so it can just act as the floor for the trunk

However Are you getting good highbass? Because I had a case with a y12 where the sweetspot for the sub was behind the front passenger seat on the floor. (for max bandwidth)

If I put the box in the back it would get loud at 30-50 Hz, then I would get literally NOTHING from 60-85Hz.
Talking perfect cancelation, all you hearing is port noise.

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby sMASH » February 22nd, 2023, 12:30 pm

First try out, I had fur gotten I had set the sub channel to full range. And that ting was annoying.

The problem was that these tings operate in band passes, and the high bass was outside that range and was moving excessively, so played around with the lpf and got the high bass dropped off.
It sounding cleaner now, but not impressive cause not much high bass.
But I was able to Raise the volume up more, as it set closer to its tuned range.

Expected that befure hand and my idea was to let the Midbass pick up on that part of the bandwidth.

But this system right now don't have that...
Midbass reproduction.



Also, I really feel it is unloading. So would be better off in a loading chamber.


But, I had seen someone post up a CT sounds 8" that is 800rms.
So, prolly I coukd sell back this elektra and let the CT sounds dump that energy into the enclosure .

When I get the subsonic and lpf set properly, I will see where missing, and look to fill that gap.

Door speakers crossed at 120hz, so, no hope there




I tried it behind the back seat but didn't like it.

Put it in the trunk and getting better cabin gain effect.


Again, this isn't meant to be full range.. Merely to see what range I can effectively get.

And is not meant to be a permanent set up. Just a try on a folded horn. With spare ply.

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby Rovin » February 22nd, 2023, 1:10 pm

its a fun learning experience playing with t-lines\horn something

did it around d mid 2000s with 2 10 re se i had, sounded good for lows & nice output on only 1000rms but took up d whole trunk in my ad y11 so its not a practical enclosure unless u dont care about taking up plenty trunk space

same about 15yrs back when i had 4 10s pio with aeroports built for daily use, sounded very good but more than half ur trunk space gone & all d added weight to ur ride too, won 4 trophies with it though

thats why majority of my daily basslines is\was a single sub ...

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby sMASH » February 22nd, 2023, 8:59 pm

Not seeing the CT sounds again.

If u all come across a high powered 8" send me a link.



Jamming a bit today and clothes shaking, with 200rms for the most.

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby Dave » February 23rd, 2023, 6:33 am

Memphis Mojo's are very powerful subs and they have an 8" application.

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby rollingstock » February 23rd, 2023, 10:22 am

DD 608 for the win

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby sMASH » February 23rd, 2023, 11:07 am

Nice suggestion.
Atomic and dc audio was in mind so far.
I saw elektra has a high powered version as well.
I will be on the look out

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby Rovin » February 23rd, 2023, 11:46 am

i carry db drive G5 8s 900rms $1495 ...

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby sMASH » February 23rd, 2023, 6:13 pm

Rovin wrote:i carry db drive G5 8s 900rms $1495 ...
I have noticed something about the db drives. I see many very new ones second hand.
So, thst leading me to think that peolle not satisfied with the output.


If anything, if u have a dd8", any model, we can do a side by side on teh same power and box and see the performance difference.


I know is chalk and cheese, but I want to see how close they are to their stated sensitivity.

If the db saying 84 sensitivity and the dd saying 80 sensitivity, but the dd louder, then then dB lying and might be lying about the other T/S specs.

If it comparable then yeah. If not then it nah make sense.


At that price, the db sounding like an plan..
So tentative.

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby david12 » February 23rd, 2023, 6:38 pm

You're gonna get alot of suggestions thrown at you but for me I'll say the DC M3, DD 608, 1508 or 2508, Resilient Sounds RS 8 and the DB Drive G5. All are really capable of digging deep and handling tons of power. All of those should be in the 700 RMS and up range.

Sundown SA and up as well.

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby rollingstock » February 23rd, 2023, 7:34 pm

The dB drive doesn't sound bad at all, build quality is not as good as the DD though. The DD will still dig low for an 8", the dB wdx got low also but will less control imo.

I want to play with a audiopipe bdc4 8"

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby Rovin » February 23rd, 2023, 7:43 pm

i believed we discussed this on here sometime b4, i not a shareholder in any car audio company but i dont like to brand compare cause each 1 is somebody bread n butter, what i will say being a user\seller of numerous brands over d yrs i will put db drive up against alot of d more popular names

no matter what brand, subs needs to be broken in [some takes mths & ppl wrongfully judge b4 it break in] , alot are put into an unsuitable enclosure & powered by amp\s not tuned properly .... so ppl quick to jump & say ay dis\dat sub eh good - is sh1t, it eh loud, it cant play low or high tones, it does smell\burn\damage easy , etc - all kinda toots especially with d way locals operate they will frig up even d best most expensive brand

i see all kinda top brands on fb & tuner selling back, besides what i said above ppl want to change up size\downsize no of subs, try next brand, going to higher model, dont have power or too much power, changed vehicles so dont have space etc ...

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby sMASH » March 10th, 2023, 7:11 pm

Update:

I put in my 1500rms Amp with the subsonic and lpf.
I was able to tame the low end and high end of the bass signal.
It playing in a very narrow range.

But because of that I was able to send a lot more power to the sub than the 200rms before.

I was able to get that elecktra 8" moving at least 2" peak to peak and only smelling glue.
So backed down the gain a Lil ting.

Songs within that bass range sound amazing.

A-MA-ZING.

My suspicion seems to be corect, in that dumping a lot more energy was able to load it up more and d ting performing!




I have 2 more experiments with this.

One is to get the higher power sub to dump even more energy and see what goes on.
This sub wired to 2 ohms, so a 1ohm sub should be able. To allow a heap more power.


The second is to find the spot for the driver to make it is to a t line. Seal off the driver hole here and see how it performs t line.

It will dig deeper, but how much deeper.
It will play higher, but I not interested in highs.
Just enough high bass to be polite is enough for me.




But, This box playing too high for my liking. It touching the high part of the bass I want realllllll Good.
I really want lower tho... In the 20hz range.
For what I looking for, I will need 3 feet more path length, but the box liek 3 feet tall already. So, Verrrrrry impractical.

But I want lower frequencies.
Hopefully the t line will give that.

But if t line not hitting as hard as this hard enough as this horn, might just do a lf horn and a high bass/mid bass tline.




So, I am Getting really good personal knowledge and experience with this.
Last edited by sMASH on March 10th, 2023, 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby sMASH » March 10th, 2023, 7:13 pm

Another note.
The frequencies I looking at, it would be better to use a lager diaphragm driver to get... The 8 just not moving enough air


The 8 really would be happier at a higher frequency... Like 60 hz.

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby rollingstock » March 10th, 2023, 7:49 pm

Just build a 4th order. Tune the ported section around 45-50hz

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby nervewrecker » March 10th, 2023, 7:50 pm

Told yah, ain't no replacement for displacement.

15" or silence.

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby sMASH » March 10th, 2023, 8:27 pm

No no no.

I KNOW that...
But this is jusssst an experiment.




The port is 8" x 10" and flared put even more.
And ur getting a lot push from it.
It's working, just outside my personal preference.


I'm doing this to see what results I would get





I know the 4th order thing, but it's just a sealed with playing at the resonance frequency of the cabin(enclosure).


When I get the higher power 8, I will see how the t line performs. I'm hoping it jams close enough to this right now..

I'll make a proper line for the frontier and
Come out for RS....
8" against 8"

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Re: Which sub fow lows?

Postby sMASH » March 10th, 2023, 8:30 pm

This horn not having this 8 sound like an 8.. It sounding more like proper 12.
May not make the output as a 12, but it sounding like a proper 12 at lower volume.


And shaking every ting. Me likes tha shake.

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