PCH Lancer CS3 series, 56,000 plus km cutting off problems

[madchinee]

Dear all

This lancer was bought brand new from Diamond motors about a year and a half ago. Vehicle have been serviced by them every 10,000 km to date. The engine is a 4G18. Everything is stock no add ons.

The problem Cut off on more than ten times. Drop it by diamond to solve but keeps happening.

Vehicle would cut off when at a stand still e.g. at a traffic light. I have noticed that the rpm would drop when the air con cycles.

On the last cut off i sent it to diamond and the kept it for a week and say it was de fuel pump clog and they replaced it ! (well free of charge as car still under warranty)

Anyone have similar problem ? Also anyone can clarify that this model lancer have no fuel filter.

I've been running the car for a day now and still getting de fluctuation with de rpm.


any help would be greatly appreciated.

[anthonyanthony]

Had my vehicle brand new from them (2005) and did not get this problem.
Althouht some people complained about getting this problem with their lancers.

This model has no in line fuel filter, it has a filter in the tank which is built into the fuel pump. The filter loks like as one tuner describes it as a teabag. Look at a post labelled 'CS lancer' and some one put a pic of the fuel pump with the filter attached.

May be its the ISC (idel speed control ) stepper motor giving trouble (sticking ) or the ISC port in the throttle body needs claeaning.
Or maybe the Idle needs adjusting or you have an electrical problem with the harness from the ECU to the ISC motor. The signal not reaching the ISC motor for it to adjust the idle in time. Could be a loose / faulty connection or a faulty ECU.

Carry it back by DM , let them see about it , if you carry it by anybody else the warranty will become void and DM will not accept responsablity.

If they replaced the pump , then the next step is for them to replace the ISC motor , clean the throttle body, reset the idle speed and see what happens.

If the problem still exists then check the connections from the ECU harness to the ISC connector, secure , replace if necessary.

If the problem is their still then the next thing is to replace the ECU.

From what you said the problem seems intermittent so it will take some trial processes, they will have to change things until problem can be isolated. At least they can keep track of what is done until problem is sloved.

If you carry it by someone else and problem is not slove then DM will not be able to tell what was done and my not know how to proceed next. The vehicle is under warranty make use of DM for this, let them give you a new 2009 model for your inconveience.

Keep us posted and hopefully men who repairs lancers for a living will give you better advice and soloutions on this forum than me.

I notice your name , you was not the fella who was talking to me and the salesamn at DM where we make him openup one of the lancers in the showroom for us to see the location of the ISC stepper motor and other parts in the engine?

[madchinee]

Yes you are correct we met at DM, recently. They said they adjust and recalbrate and it should be fine. It happen three weeks after. I went in cussing as usual, this time I told the salesman that I am calling my lawyer to draft something for them with the words selling a defective product, endangering human life, etc.
Within fifteen min a man claiming to be the GM called and was inquiring about the problem and to bring in de vehicle. You see where you have to say and do just to get what you paid for. And I told them about what you mentioned but i don't think they listened. So as you say I try it out and see whats next.

[Anil_Sooknanan]

idle valve needs cleaning

[anthonyanthony]

This is nonsense.
Put some pressure on DM for they to rectify this problem asap.
Ask them questions because this is a new car.

Questions like : you adjusted and recalibrated what ?
how is this adjustment done?
Then why am I getting this problem, what next if it continues ?
what timeframe you looking at to slove this problem?
from your experience what can be done?
how will I be compensated for time loss?

If you serious about getting a layer then docoument the questions you asked and their answers!!

They may want to tell you ' is the type/ quality of gas we getting ' , 'change the service station where you buy your gas' etc....

Well then if the gas quality is poor then every vehicle or most vehicles in this county should start giving problems.

We throwing out idears here , but they may not want to listen to us , since who are we to tell them how to do their jobs?!!!!
You ever went to the doctor and tell him what sickness you have ?
The same for DM

As I said I have my cs3 from new and also switched from premium to super and no problems.

I never experience any problems with DM but you need to have your head on with their service persons ( who may convince that you need a PhD in rocket science to work on these cars)

Well I had a problem between them and the insurance, I put up a post on this , but unfortunately I called too much of names so it was deleated, I was emotional back then.

Mr Anil may have a soloution but DM with their factory trained techs should have done this first!
As I am writing this I just remenber some other things :

A leaking gasket/ gaskets or vacum hoses in throttle body area causing air to be sucked in from elsewhere resulting in cutting off similar to a carburated vehicle.

A sticking or leaking PCV valve or purge control valve/ solenoid causing in weak mixture at low/ idle speeds resulting in cutting off.

Also the valve between the brake booster and tappet pan hose.

Also checkfor kinked hoses, tubings etc. but then again this is a new car.

keep us posted and good luck

Again DM should have the tools (a vacume pump /gauge ) to check this as described in the service manual.

[JUS4SHO]

ISCV

[madchinee]

DM just pissing me more and more.

Today Mr. Brash called and asked how is de vehicle running and if I am still experiencing de problem. I told him yes the problem is still there. i.e. rpm fluctuating and stuttering when the compressor cycles. He told me to bring it in, but unfortunately i couldn't . I told him i'll pass through tomorow. Mr. man then tell me that i have an outstanding to settle. so i though to myself, what i could be owing. Fuel pump was replaced by DM no charge, it just don't ring a bell.
CHECK WHAT PISSED ME THE F OFF

Mr. Man telling me that i have $ 100.00 in fuel money for them. It was replaced when they took out de fuel tank for cleaning. I was like what de F*** you talking about. I got de car with 1/4 tank, how de hell all ya charge me for that. and on top of that i left them with 3/4 tank of fuel.

My question is why should I pay for de fuel especially on a brand vehicle that is giving trouble.

LORD GIVE ME PATIENCE AND STRENGTH TO CUSS THEM muffler bearings TOMORROW WHEN I get there.

[venum]

i feel your frustration man

I have a roro 02 CS3 that currently giving idle control problems that you describe

But mine also revvs high at idle in N and P only in addition to revving low

I got both symptoms, buy more on the revving high side

The suggestion on the vacuum line is also valid

What u can do is take it to a knowldegeable mech who can do a non-intrusive diagnosis - scan, visual/audible inspection of the engine (so DM won't know) and get a second opnion, so you can determine if DM BSing u

You should also talk to the service manager, not the sales ppl or the service techs. Do not talk to the service coordinator - go to the manager

Sales manager can tell a person who don't know nutten bout car, so if u don't, walk with someone who does, u less likely to get BSed that way

A letter from a lawyer isn't a bad thing, but should be a last resort

Any story bout bad gas quality etc that is an environmental variable is not your problem or fault - it is theirs, they sold you the car to work in the current environment

And for all the inconvenience u seeing, demand a courtesy car for the time they keeping your vehicle. U buy a car to avoid taking taxi and fighting up with public transport in the hot sun and rain.

[idlemind]

So wait a sec.

I keep getting high idle in N and P, close to 1500rpm
in D and R i get normal rpm of roun 800-1000rpm

I sprayed everywhere for vacuum leaks to effectively eliminate points 1, 3 and 4 anthonyanthony mentioned.

Will have to check on:

A sticking or leaking PCV valve or purge control valve/ solenoid causing in weak mixture at low/ idle speeds resulting in cutting off.

but could this be the ISCV too?

and take note of the kms when u drop off the car madchinee

[madchinee]

well guys i think DM solved the problem (knock on wood) I went in today and told them about de idle problem i am still having. The tech and I went for a road test so i can pin point de problem. when we got back he told me de valves need changing. They replaced it within half an hour right in front of me. Also they told me they changed the following other than the fuel pump.

1. Step up motor
2. Battery

Note they said i have a bad mount that need changing too (GM said he will honour it under de warranty)


And yes Venum I dealt with the General Manager, who i must say is trying his best to solve this problem and yes they provided me a courtesy car although it in a mess it still better than travelling.

So I told him i'll run de car until monday next and see what happens.

[anthonyanthony]

madchinee , I hope this is the end of your nightmares.

Mr. Man telling me that i have $ 100.00 in fuel money for them

But come on man, after all this inconvience these mother f#@kers so low to charge you for gas. Give me a break, SHAME ON DM.
I HOPE YOU DID NOT PAY FOR THE FUEL.

I have a few questions:
The valves need changing ? (the intake & exhaust valves ?)
This is strange , what could be wrong with the valves (new car ) ?
Did they change each individual valve which in total is 16 ?

They replaced the step up motor which is the ISC motor which most men said is the problem most of the time. They should have done this first instead of giving you this run around.

They replaced the battery ?
Strange ..... hmmm..

Sounds like they not sure what the problem is and just changed things until it went away.
As I said I hope this is the end but keep us posted.


From reading and talking to men most of the times with these idle problems the soloution in in the ISC valve or motor section as Mr Anil and JUS4SHO mentioned.

Their are service manuals available for the vehicles on this site (not entirely for the CS3 but for the cedia ). Download them and study them.

I studied them specially for the section that deals with the throttle body and idle section , compared and traced the diagrams using my car and also talked to other people who suggested various soloutions as mentioned in previous posts.

You need to educate yourselves since you can clearly see that at time the "experts " (DM) themselves are not sure.

By the way their is a fuel injected course level 1 & 2 being offered at charapacina school. It lookes intresting ,anyone took it and can comment on it

[venum]

The valves cud become defective over the short time if there was another problem with the head

I hope ure probs really and truly are over

As anthonyanthony said, the experts didn't treat the problem properly

I disagree with the statement that they don't know what is going on, I believe that they just didn't take the time to diagnose and treat it properly

They just did a series of of quick fixes

These cars and engines being serviced by them for the last 8 to 9 years, I believe that they know enough bout them, they just didn't dedicate the appropriate time to your problem, for whatever reason - too many other vehicles to service, whatever.

This is still a shame on them

What is the content of that course

Sounds interesting

[madchinee]

so far so good .... no complaints.

[anthonyanthony]

glad to know you get through

[ZeroOne]

I fed up hear about people getting this kinda run around from different dealers another advantage of RoRo

[venum]

RORO is da sh!tz man

Can't wait for late 2010 when the CY's start coming RORO

[Anil_Sooknanan]

madchinee , I hope this is the end of your nightmares.

Mr. Man telling me that i have $ 100.00 in fuel money for them

But come on man, after all this inconvience these mother f#@kers so low to charge you for gas. Give me a break, SHAME ON DM.
I HOPE YOU DID NOT PAY FOR THE FUEL.

I have a few questions:
The valves need changing ? (the intake & exhaust valves ?)
This is strange , what could be wrong with the valves (new car ) ?
Did they change each individual valve which in total is 16 ?

They replaced the step up motor which is the ISC motor which most men said is the problem most of the time. They should have done this first instead of giving you this run around.

They replaced the battery ?
Strange ..... hmmm..

Sounds like they not sure what the problem is and just changed things until it went away.
As I said I hope this is the end but keep us posted.


From reading and talking to men most of the times with these idle problems the soloution in in the ISC valve or motor section as Mr Anil and JUS4SHO mentioned.

Their are service manuals available for the vehicles on this site (not entirely for the CS3 but for the cedia ). Download them and study them.

I studied them specially for the section that deals with the throttle body and idle section , compared and traced the diagrams using my car and also talked to other people who suggested various soloutions as mentioned in previous posts.

You need to educate yourselves since you can clearly see that at time the "experts " (DM) themselves are not sure.

By the way their is a fuel injected course level 1 & 2 being offered at Carapichima Senior secondary school. It lookes intresting ,anyone took it and can comment on it

Mr yuh say.. i not to long left that school offering that course.. so maybe the fellas who wanna get a good idea of fuel injected could give it a shot!

[anthonyanthony]

Is the school good wrt teaching the course anil

[Anil_Sooknanan]

i never did any courses in mechanical nor auto electrical so i can't say.. . every thing i know came from working on the cars we got home..

[madchinee]

anthonyanthony,

Did you ever had engine mount problems ?

[madchinee]

ppl imagine engine mount buss already !

[anthonyanthony]

Sorry to take so long to respond.
I reinstalled my OS on d computer and thus forget all and had to reset my passwords

wow you really getting problems with this car.
One of my engine mount , the one on the firewall will be replaced next week, but remember my vehicle is almost 5 yrs old and over 105K.

If your vehicle is under warranty let DM replace it or you can source it outside and let a mechanic replace it .
But an engine mount is no big thing once replaced as soon as possible .... if left it can put a strain on the other 3 and shorten their life

[madchinee]

tell me about it. I made noise and they replaced all four.

[anthonyanthony]

good for you but you really getting problems with them.

Question would you recommend someone to purchase a new lancer or to do business with diamond motors ?

[madchinee]

well thats a a really good question. To buy a new lancer yes as I have known quite a few ppl that never had problems with it including yourself. Service suck though.

[jcrew]

Try taking out the injectors and cleaning them real good , had the same problem some time back and that was the cause rel gunk...

[lancer1929]

I had the same problem as madchinee, thought it was the injectors that needed cleaning. carried it dm, the car worked like a dream after picking it up. next day same problem. the car powered down while i was driving. after that, the same problem re-started. however, my lancer is a local 2001. carried it to dm that same morning and they suggested that the stepper motor or the immobiliser could be the problem. i have another lancer (2004 model) with the same engine. I switched the stepper motor between the cars and the 2001 lancer is still giving the same problems and the 2004 lancer is working perfectly. so i think that this rules out the stepper motor itself. i want to try disabling the immobiliser but dont know how...any suggestions??
by the way how can i access the service manual for the cedia?