Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

[De Dragon]

Agree with zoom on this, this govt has been negotiating in bad faith to support the sector.
That energy minister has no foresight on where the sector needs to be or even how to support a transition to a green economy and the steps needed to be taken.
Right now we should be investing heavily in green hydrogen and the support facilities for such.
From an energy roadmap prospective there is little hope for this country in the next 5-10 years

Red government killed Pt lisas.

Eric Williams must be a UNC

If I remember correctly they recently signed a deal for thr trinigen 1 facility to spear head a hydrogen plant.
After the reform the gas, wonder what the process will be to take the carbon out of the loop after they extract thr hydrogen

OR they can can just run the ammonia process Inefficiently to recover excess hydrogen in the purge gas recovery

Hydrogen plants typically thrive when the plants they are supposed to supply have no reformers of their own from conception. A reformer is typically 1/4 of the cost of a plant, so if a greenfield plant can avoid this cost, and receive a reliable, cheaper source of hydrogen, then they go that route. No one really cares whether the hydrogen is green or not, cost is, and will always be, the overriding factor.

but when they reform the methane and extract the h2, what going to go on with the carbon?
a reformer may be the most economical way to extract h2 due to economies of scale, but how green it will be will be determined by the path of the carbon... unless, they plan to send the carbon to the methanol plants to improve their process... and in that case, letting m4 and 5 shut down might not be the best state to let happen.

the cgcl and methanex plants burn methane to generate the extra carbon they need to further the process. they might want to look at installing a purge gas recovery system at methanol plants and just extract the excess h2 from their front ends, and balance by h2 removal, rather co2 addition. u might just suffer with ur steam production, so just increase ur aux boiler capacity.


why i fretting about this is, cause i experienced some 'test projects' with pie in the sky logics used justify them. yeah they got the financiers to put out millions of dollars to go ahead but when i read the process, it didnt make sense and kept thinking that i missing sumting. so said so done, waste of times and monies.



they going to push a project tru, that will not be viable and taint the whole concept for all the people that not familiar but still need to buy into it. like most govt projects.

i just need to know what going on with the carbon. they shouldnt burn methane to produce h2 unless they have a very good use for the carbon.

If the hydrogen project is using electrolysis, then the only byproduct will be Oxygen, and some water.
AFAIK, the IPSL, now Proman methanol plants got their CO2 from PCS, now Nutrien. With the idling of the biggest plants M5 and M4, the CO2 not used by the Urea plants in Nutrien, will be vented to atmosphere thus contributing further to green house gas emissions.

but u dont need to strike a deal with tringen to do electroysis route. so, hence my presumption that they want to use tringen1 reformer to do the h2 generation.

the extra 400mt of meoh that m5000 used to make, used the purge gas from the loops of the other plants. as a further means of economies/ecology, as that gas simply burnt in the reformer. so what used to be chaching, went back to jess going up in flames.
400mt by 400us is 160,000 US per day

y? cause rowley want lng train 1 to survive.

The purge gas, mainly hydrogen, used as fuel for the M2/3/4 reformers would have been substantially less as M2/M3 were running sporadically at best in an effort to keep the big money spinner M5 on line. Alas through JUHN Scarfy and Goebbel's fackery, now the mighty M5 has also been brought to its knees. Never thought I'd see that.
Red Colostomy Bag must be happy and proud, because according to him, only 20% of FOUR LNG trains is our saviour. Liquify a dwindling resource, add ZERO value, and let the multinationals control the entire value chain, LFD RFD PNM economics. Then again JUHN Scarfy and Guy Smiley business fix, so fack ollour and ollour Estate.

[sMASH]

what he fail to see, pnm big wigs going the route of becoming renters. all dem following alwaris. dem aint business bout oil and gas again.

[DreamWeaver]

Titan Timeline:
2019 December 31st - Titan's gas contract expired and they get interim extensions until April 1st, 2020.
2020 April 1st - Methanex idles Titan due to Covid and the inability to get a long term gas contract with NGC.
2021 January 7th - Methanex announces they are shuttering Titan and retrenching workers.

M5000 Timeline:
2020 September 22nd - M5000's gas contract expired and they get interim extensions until April 1st, 2021.
2021 April 1st - MHTL idles M5000 due to the inability to get a long term gas contract with NGC.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________


...... the similarities are uncanny. Fill in the blank. I havent even considered M4 since their contract would have expired a while ago and NGC has been giving them interim supplies for quite some time. If MHTL does get a contract, I imagine Methanex will be interested in knowing the terms. Seeing as Atlantic Train 1 needs gas and the govt is eager to make good on their Train 1 TAR funding and their "better returns" agreeement for Train 1, I dont expect MHTL or Methanex to have their plants back online anytime soon.

[zoom rader]

These plants can disassemble their assets and move to another favorable country in months. They always have a second avenue and I think they gave the red government enough time .

They did the same when they came here.

Who's loosing, certainly not the plants.

This Red government don't know how to run a county , their behaviour is immature. They are chasing away industry.

If you folks cant see that we are, now an island of waiters and store clerks then you all need help and are very stupid people .


Dumbass Banana Republic

[widdyphuck]

These plants can disassemble their assets and move to another favorable country in months. They always have a second avenue and I think they gave the red government enough time .

They did the same when they came here.

Who's loosing, certainly not the plants.

This Red government don't know how to run a county , their behaviour is immature. They are chasing away industry.

If you folks cant see that we are, now an island of waiters and store clerks then you all need help and are very stupid people .


Dumbass Banana Republic

Yea things getting worse and worse under them and they always have an excuse to fool the population.
The companies however won't be fooled by no Golf Course Groomer and his half dead energy minister. If the price ain't right they will pack their bags and go. No mercy from them.
Point Lisas is crumbling before our eyes and we can't do anything about it.. Sad times in T&T.

[SuperiorMan]

These plants can disassemble their assets and move to another favorable country in months. They always have a second avenue and I think they gave the red government enough time .

They did the same when they came here.

Who's loosing, certainly not the plants.

This Red government don't know how to run a county , their behaviour is immature. They are chasing away industry.

If you folks cant see that we are, now an island of waiters and store clerks then you all need help and are very stupid people .


Dumbass Banana Republic

Just curious, do you think things will get better if UNC win the next election? or is it like unrecoverable?

[De Dragon]

These plants can disassemble their assets and move to another favorable country in months. They always have a second avenue and I think they gave the red government enough time .

They did the same when they came here.

Who's loosing, certainly not the plants.

This Red government don't know how to run a county , their behaviour is immature. They are chasing away industry.

If you folks cant see that we are, now an island of waiters and store clerks then you all need help and are very stupid people .


Dumbass Banana Republic

Just curious, do you think things will get better if UNC win the next election? or is it like unrecoverable?

No, it will take many years to halt the slide in gas production, and years to get back that level of FDI. A plant isn't like a burger cart, once it is moved out of T&T, that's it, especially as gas prices will not significantly reduce in the short term. For this we can thank JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels, who "negotiated" us right out of our previously envious position of being a major attraction for FDI.

[SuperiorMan]

These plants can disassemble their assets and move to another favorable country in months. They always have a second avenue and I think they gave the red government enough time .

They did the same when they came here.

Who's loosing, certainly not the plants.

This Red government don't know how to run a county , their behaviour is immature. They are chasing away industry.

If you folks cant see that we are, now an island of waiters and store clerks then you all need help and are very stupid people .


Dumbass Banana Republic

Just curious, do you think things will get better if UNC win the next election? or is it like unrecoverable?

No, it will take many years to halt the slide in gas production, and years to get back that level of FDI. A plant isn't like a burger cart, once it is moved out of T&T, that's it, especially as gas prices will not significantly reduce in the short term. For this we can thank JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels, who "negotiated" us right out of our previously envious position of being a major attraction for FDI.

So if you could migrate get out now? what you think?

[De Dragon]

These plants can disassemble their assets and move to another favorable country in months. They always have a second avenue and I think they gave the red government enough time .

They did the same when they came here.

Who's loosing, certainly not the plants.

This Red government don't know how to run a county , their behaviour is immature. They are chasing away industry.

If you folks cant see that we are, now an island of waiters and store clerks then you all need help and are very stupid people .


Dumbass Banana Republic

Just curious, do you think things will get better if UNC win the next election? or is it like unrecoverable?

No, it will take many years to halt the slide in gas production, and years to get back that level of FDI. A plant isn't like a burger cart, once it is moved out of T&T, that's it, especially as gas prices will not significantly reduce in the short term. For this we can thank JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels, who "negotiated" us right out of our previously envious position of being a major attraction for FDI.

So if you could migrate get out now? what you think?

Yes, industry is dead, forex shortages killing local businesses that are not already well established and manufacturing is similarly dead. I pity those youths doing PPO, Mech/Elec Eng etc.

[widdyphuck]

These plants can disassemble their assets and move to another favorable country in months. They always have a second avenue and I think they gave the red government enough time .

They did the same when they came here.

Who's loosing, certainly not the plants.

This Red government don't know how to run a county , their behaviour is immature. They are chasing away industry.

If you folks cant see that we are, now an island of waiters and store clerks then you all need help and are very stupid people .


Dumbass Banana Republic

Just curious, do you think things will get better if UNC win the next election? or is it like unrecoverable?

No, it will take many years to halt the slide in gas production, and years to get back that level of FDI. A plant isn't like a burger cart, once it is moved out of T&T, that's it, especially as gas prices will not significantly reduce in the short term. For this we can thank JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels, who "negotiated" us right out of our previously envious position of being a major attraction for FDI.

So if you could migrate get out now? what you think?

Yes, industry is dead, forex shortages killing local businesses that are not already well established and manufacturing is similarly dead. I pity those youths doing PPO, Mech/Elec Eng etc.

Some of them youth paying to do it too...Not the best use of money at this time.

[SuperiorMan]

These plants can disassemble their assets and move to another favorable country in months. They always have a second avenue and I think they gave the red government enough time .

They did the same when they came here.

Who's loosing, certainly not the plants.

This Red government don't know how to run a county , their behaviour is immature. They are chasing away industry.

If you folks cant see that we are, now an island of waiters and store clerks then you all need help and are very stupid people .


Dumbass Banana Republic

Just curious, do you think things will get better if UNC win the next election? or is it like unrecoverable?

No, it will take many years to halt the slide in gas production, and years to get back that level of FDI. A plant isn't like a burger cart, once it is moved out of T&T, that's it, especially as gas prices will not significantly reduce in the short term. For this we can thank JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels, who "negotiated" us right out of our previously envious position of being a major attraction for FDI.

So if you could migrate get out now? what you think?

Yes, industry is dead, forex shortages killing local businesses that are not already well established and manufacturing is similarly dead. I pity those youths doing PPO, Mech/Elec Eng etc.

what about those that do med?

[alfa]

These plants can disassemble their assets and move to another favorable country in months. They always have a second avenue and I think they gave the red government enough time .

They did the same when they came here.

Who's loosing, certainly not the plants.

This Red government don't know how to run a county , their behaviour is immature. They are chasing away industry.

If you folks cant see that we are, now an island of waiters and store clerks then you all need help and are very stupid people .


Dumbass Banana Republic

Just curious, do you think things will get better if UNC win the next election? or is it like unrecoverable?

No, it will take many years to halt the slide in gas production, and years to get back that level of FDI. A plant isn't like a burger cart, once it is moved out of T&T, that's it, especially as gas prices will not significantly reduce in the short term. For this we can thank JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels, who "negotiated" us right out of our previously envious position of being a major attraction for FDI.

So if you could migrate get out now? what you think?

Yes, industry is dead, forex shortages killing local businesses that are not already well established and manufacturing is similarly dead. I pity those youths doing PPO, Mech/Elec Eng etc.

what about those that do med?

Could never go wrong with the classics of med and law. There'll always be sick people to treat and scumbags to defend/prosecute

[De Dragon]

These plants can disassemble their assets and move to another favorable country in months. They always have a second avenue and I think they gave the red government enough time .

They did the same when they came here.

Who's loosing, certainly not the plants.

This Red government don't know how to run a county , their behaviour is immature. They are chasing away industry.

If you folks cant see that we are, now an island of waiters and store clerks then you all need help and are very stupid people .


Dumbass Banana Republic

Just curious, do you think things will get better if UNC win the next election? or is it like unrecoverable?

No, it will take many years to halt the slide in gas production, and years to get back that level of FDI. A plant isn't like a burger cart, once it is moved out of T&T, that's it, especially as gas prices will not significantly reduce in the short term. For this we can thank JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels, who "negotiated" us right out of our previously envious position of being a major attraction for FDI.

So if you could migrate get out now? what you think?

Yes, industry is dead, forex shortages killing local businesses that are not already well established and manufacturing is similarly dead. I pity those youths doing PPO, Mech/Elec Eng etc.

what about those that do med?

Well the LFD RFD PNM PM said that there was no staff for the Couva Hospital, so maybe it is a good option

[sMASH]

pnm: not enough staff at hospitals
graduates: not enough vacancies, so we hadda try it outside.

[ScHoolboySoloQ]

Massive brain drain incoming.

[alfa]

How come habit7 not white knighting it for the pnm as yet?

[De Dragon]

How come habit7 not white knighting it for the pnm as yet?

He prolly following instructions and in Tobago

[sMASH]

are all the nutrien plants up and running?

[jhonnieblue]

Not all

[carluva]

I fail to see the link between the Atlantic investment and failure to renew gas contracts in Pt. Lisas.

Atlantic is supplied with gas from different upstream sources via a dedicated pipeline whereas Pt. Lisas gas originates from other upstream sources and is fed via another pipeline. To suggest that gas is preferentially being sent to Atlantic is a baseless argument as this is not possible under the current system configuration.

Titan Timeline:
2019 December 31st - Titan's gas contract expired and they get interim extensions until April 1st, 2020.
2020 April 1st - Methanex idles Titan due to Covid and the inability to get a long term gas contract with NGC.
2021 January 7th - Methanex announces they are shuttering Titan and retrenching workers.

M5000 Timeline:
2020 September 22nd - M5000's gas contract expired and they get interim extensions until April 1st, 2021.
2021 April 1st - MHTL idles M5000 due to the inability to get a long term gas contract with NGC.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________


...... the similarities are uncanny. Fill in the blank. I havent even considered M4 since their contract would have expired a while ago and NGC has been giving them interim supplies for quite some time. If MHTL does get a contract, I imagine Methanex will be interested in knowing the terms. Seeing as Atlantic Train 1 needs gas and the govt is eager to make good on their Train 1 TAR funding and their "better returns" agreeement for Train 1, I dont expect MHTL or Methanex to have their plants back online anytime soon.

[zoom rader]

How come habit7 not white knighting it for the pnm as yet?

He's one of those jump and wave pastors, the new breed of the red government churches to hook idiots in their cult. Easter

[DreamWeaver]

When you get a chance, check out the gas master plan:
https://www.energy.gov.tt/wp-content/up ... n-2015.pdf

Look on page 1-9 for figure 1-6. It'll show the NGC piping infrastructure. Also, check out page 1-11 figure 1-7 for a gas supply schematic.

I fail to see the link between the Atlantic investment and failure to renew gas contracts in Pt. Lisas.

Atlantic is supplied with gas from different upstream sources via a dedicated pipeline whereas Pt. Lisas gas originates from other upstream sources and is fed via another pipeline. To suggest that gas is preferentially being sent to Atlantic is a baseless argument as this is not possible under the current system configuration.

Titan Timeline:
2019 December 31st - Titan's gas contract expired and they get interim extensions until April 1st, 2020.
2020 April 1st - Methanex idles Titan due to Covid and the inability to get a long term gas contract with NGC.
2021 January 7th - Methanex announces they are shuttering Titan and retrenching workers.

M5000 Timeline:
2020 September 22nd - M5000's gas contract expired and they get interim extensions until April 1st, 2021.
2021 April 1st - MHTL idles M5000 due to the inability to get a long term gas contract with NGC.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________


...... the similarities are uncanny. Fill in the blank. I havent even considered M4 since their contract would have expired a while ago and NGC has been giving them interim supplies for quite some time. If MHTL does get a contract, I imagine Methanex will be interested in knowing the terms. Seeing as Atlantic Train 1 needs gas and the govt is eager to make good on their Train 1 TAR funding and their "better returns" agreeement for Train 1, I dont expect MHTL or Methanex to have their plants back online anytime soon.

[sMASH]

I fail to see the link between the Atlantic investment and failure to renew gas contracts in Pt. Lisas.

Atlantic is supplied with gas from different upstream sources via a dedicated pipeline whereas Pt. Lisas gas originates from other upstream sources and is fed via another pipeline. To suggest that gas is preferentially being sent to Atlantic is a baseless argument as this is not possible under the current system configuration.

Titan Timeline:
2019 December 31st - Titan's gas contract expired and they get interim extensions until April 1st, 2020.
2020 April 1st - Methanex idles Titan due to Covid and the inability to get a long term gas contract with NGC.
2021 January 7th - Methanex announces they are shuttering Titan and retrenching workers.

M5000 Timeline:
2020 September 22nd - M5000's gas contract expired and they get interim extensions until April 1st, 2021.
2021 April 1st - MHTL idles M5000 due to the inability to get a long term gas contract with NGC.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________


...... the similarities are uncanny. Fill in the blank. I havent even considered M4 since their contract would have expired a while ago and NGC has been giving them interim supplies for quite some time. If MHTL does get a contract, I imagine Methanex will be interested in knowing the terms. Seeing as Atlantic Train 1 needs gas and the govt is eager to make good on their Train 1 TAR funding and their "better returns" agreeement for Train 1, I dont expect MHTL or Methanex to have their plants back online anytime soon.

i seeing there are tie-ins at the beachfield and picton valve stations.

[carluva]

And this proves what? That there is a gas pipeline network in Trinidad and Tobago as well as jumpovers. This does not demonstrate that gas is being preferentially redirected.

[sMASH]

well, when there is a jump over from one line to the other, and they keep that closed, it shows that gas kept to one site, in preference to the other site.

[DreamWeaver]

And this proves what? That there is a gas pipeline network in Trinidad and Tobago as well as jumpovers. This does not demonstrate that gas is being preferentially redirected.

This proves that the current system configuration allows for the redirection of gas if NGC decides it and hence the argument is not baseless.

[carluva]

Dreamweaver, redirecting of gas is not as simple as opening a jumpover valve between the domestic lines and CIP. System pressures have to be considered to allow for gas to move from one line to another.

The largest hurdle is actually the commercial and legal requirements for this to take place. It is just not as easy as many think.

On the other hand, what is wrong if NGC invests in local assets to maximise returns to the country as opposed to returns being gained from foreign shareholders?

These arguments are typical Trinidadian mentality to always complain and find fault. Isn't it conceivable that NGC saw the issues with domestic gas supplies and contracts and in an effort to maintain revenue stream, they invested elsewhere to offset the loss of revenue?

For years Trinidadians have complained that the government has minimal shareholdings in the energy industry, but now that it is being done, people are finding other reasons to complain.

Imagine the loss to the national economy if no investments were done in Atlantic by NGC.

NGC have actually adapted over the last few years to expand the investment portfolio to ensure revenues remain in the country.

Your arguments are baseless as they myopically focus on one aspect of the system and are not looking at the other elements from a holistic view.


.

And this proves what? That there is a gas pipeline network in Trinidad and Tobago as well as jumpovers. This does not demonstrate that gas is being preferentially redirected.

This proves that the current system configuration allows for the redirection of gas if NGC decides it and hence the argument is not baseless.

[sMASH]

Dreamweaver, redirecting of gas is not as simple as opening a jumpover valve between the domestic lines and CIP. System pressures have to be considered to allow for gas to move from one line to another.

The largest hurdle is actually the commercial and legal requirements for this to take place. It is just not as easy as many think.

On the other hand, what is wrong if NGC invests in local assets to maximise returns to the country as opposed to returns being gained from foreign shareholders?

These arguments are typical Trinidadian mentality to always complain and find fault. Isn't it conceivable that NGC saw the issues with domestic gas supplies and contracts and in an effort to maintain revenue stream, they invested elsewhere to offset the loss of revenue?

For years Trinidadians have complained that the government has minimal shareholdings in the energy industry, but now that it is being done, people are finding other reasons to complain.

Imagine the loss to the national economy if no investments were done in Atlantic by NGC.

NGC have actually adapted over the last few years to expand the investment portfolio to ensure revenues remain in the country.

Your arguments are baseless as they myopically focus on one aspect of the system and are not looking at the other elements from a holistic view.


.

And this proves what? That there is a gas pipeline network in Trinidad and Tobago as well as jumpovers. This does not demonstrate that gas is being preferentially redirected.

This proves that the current system configuration allows for the redirection of gas if NGC decides it and hence the argument is not baseless.

any ting to do with pressures and flows, a couple guys in the field, or really just one, and one guy in a control room will handle dat. thats a non issue so long as the physical tie-ins are there. even if the tie-ins werent there, just hadda issue some hot tap permits and viola, jump over!

the actual tricky part is the agreements that are in place, correct. and just like with any thing oil and gas, they just have to have the will, and negotiate their way towards it.

just like we negotiated to saddle ngc with the complete 300m TAR budget for lng train 1, even tho there wasnt gas to run it to recoup that cost, and if u left it down till 2025, when gas does become available, u will be able to recoup ur 10% share of the TAR in less time than u will now.
and just like u negotiated ur way to tringen1 shut down, methanex titan plant shut down and proman m4 and 5 shut down.

u can negotiate any thing if u really want it.

[sMASH]

and i find it highly hypocritical that people touting propping up lng train1 cause we have shares in it, also condemned the idea of govt taking shares in the petrotrin refinery, since they looking to sell it to restart it.

in one breath allyuh saying govt getting out of the business of oil and gas so selling out the businesses. and in the second breath defending the lng tr1 cause govt have shares in it.

allyuh keep on defending nonsense while people getting put on the bread line. by the time they done the only wuk would be kfc, police of government

[DreamWeaver]

Dreamweaver, redirecting of gas is not as simple as opening a jumpover valve between the domestic lines and CIP. System pressures have to be considered to allow for gas to move from one line to another.

The largest hurdle is actually the commercial and legal requirements for this to take place. It is just not as easy as many think.

On the other hand, what is wrong if NGC invests in local assets to maximise returns to the country as opposed to returns being gained from foreign shareholders?

These arguments are typical Trinidadian mentality to always complain and find fault. Isn't it conceivable that NGC saw the issues with domestic gas supplies and contracts and in an effort to maintain revenue stream, they invested elsewhere to offset the loss of revenue?

For years Trinidadians have complained that the government has minimal shareholdings in the energy industry, but now that it is being done, people are finding other reasons to complain.

Imagine the loss to the national economy if no investments were done in Atlantic by NGC.

NGC have actually adapted over the last few years to expand the investment portfolio to ensure revenues remain in the country.

Your arguments are baseless as they myopically focus on one aspect of the system and are not looking at the other elements from a holistic view.


.

And this proves what? That there is a gas pipeline network in Trinidad and Tobago as well as jumpovers. This does not demonstrate that gas is being preferentially redirected.

This proves that the current system configuration allows for the redirection of gas if NGC decides it and hence the argument is not baseless.

But you said it wasn't possible before. Now you're saying it isn't as simple? Please make up your mind. The Atlantic Train 1's renegotiated contract and the pending Atlantic unitisation contract have lots of details that none of us are privy to. Anything is possible. The infrastructure is there.

And did I say it was a problem that we send gas to Atlantic? I said things bad for Point Lisas. There's a difference. If the returns are better for the govt then great. It all seems to be working out that way. If it heads that way then we'll be getting more profits as a country. Can you not agree to that? Point Lisas might be screwed though so the workers need to be aware of what is coming.

So calm down.