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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby pugboy » November 30th, 2021, 9:38 am

first stop to banana is silk fig

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby VexXx Dogg » November 30th, 2021, 1:49 pm

pugboy wrote:first stop to banana is silk fig

doh be on silk fig dan.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby ProtonPowder » November 30th, 2021, 6:10 pm

^^

Is a PNM plot to have the nation believe that they cant measure their own properties.

In Panday and KPB days people used to learn to calculate area of compound shapes by standard 3 in school, not like Mrs breakfastses and Mr. Sleepy Garcia and whoever irrelevant in there now

Only PNM people refusing to submit forms out of laziness because they want govament workers to come by their house to do it for them so they can bribe them one time

^^

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby ProtonPowder » November 30th, 2021, 10:32 pm

http://newsday.co.tt/2021/11/30/propert ... s-through/

An actually insightful opinion. Boomboom raider take note, this is what you should do instead of roleplay.

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
Property tax – thinking things through

THE EDITOR: With today being the deadline for registering one’s property for tax, I cannot help but be bemused by this ridiculous attempt to raise additional funding for the Government. If there is any doubt that the advisers of the Government are bereft of ideas, this property tax endeavour should confirm one’s suspicion.

It is clear to any sensible thinking person that five years have past since this government came into service without a cent coming in from property tax, as I predicted. Another five years will pass without a proper structure in place to assess and implement a proper property tax system. Why? one may ask. It just is not possible under this convoluted system.

Let’s think this through. There are more than 500,000 properties in TT. But for argument’s sake let’s say there were 400,000. Each form submitted must be read by someone, evaluated for errors, perhaps have someone visit the site for confirmation and then finally arrive at a value for that property. If one public servant was to complete two forms a day that would be plenty.

If 100 public servants were to be dedicated to only working on processing property tax it would take them 2,000 workdays or seven and a half years to complete the processing exercise. No time is added for site visits, days when site visits are attempted, and no one is present, or travelling to far-off areas. In the meantime, not a cent would be collected and property tax would be the burden of another administration.

Why is it so difficult for the Government to take one’s last property tax that was paid “x” years ago and add to it a percentage “y” that represents the percentage of economic growth? Thus, one’s new property tax will be the old tax plus a percentage increase in tandem with economic growth? Perhaps that would be too easy, it would not allow for the employment of temporary assessors and wastage of taxpayers’ money.

The citizens ought not to be concerned about new property taxes soon. Under the proposed system such a tax cannot happen for years. Citizens should however be concerned about registering their properties as the fines that can emanate from non-registration could make proposed property tax revenue look like pocket change.

STEVE ALVAREZ

via e-mail

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby Rayden6 » December 1st, 2021, 9:01 am

Is only they followers are blind to fill out the form and well the scared.

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zoom rader
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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby zoom rader » December 1st, 2021, 9:21 am

ProtonPowder wrote:http://newsday.co.tt/2021/11/30/property-tax-thinking-things-through/

An actually insightful opinion. Boomboom raider take note, this is what you should do instead of roleplay.

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
Property tax – thinking things through

THE EDITOR: With today being the deadline for registering one’s property for tax, I cannot help but be bemused by this ridiculous attempt to raise additional funding for the Government. If there is any doubt that the advisers of the Government are bereft of ideas, this property tax endeavour should confirm one’s suspicion.

It is clear to any sensible thinking person that five years have past since this government came into service without a cent coming in from property tax, as I predicted. Another five years will pass without a proper structure in place to assess and implement a proper property tax system. Why? one may ask. It just is not possible under this convoluted system.

Let’s think this through. There are more than 500,000 properties in TT. But for argument’s sake let’s say there were 400,000. Each form submitted must be read by someone, evaluated for errors, perhaps have someone visit the site for confirmation and then finally arrive at a value for that property. If one public servant was to complete two forms a day that would be plenty.

If 100 public servants were to be dedicated to only working on processing property tax it would take them 2,000 workdays or seven and a half years to complete the processing exercise. No time is added for site visits, days when site visits are attempted, and no one is present, or travelling to far-off areas. In the meantime, not a cent would be collected and property tax would be the burden of another administration.

Why is it so difficult for the Government to take one’s last property tax that was paid “x” years ago and add to it a percentage “y” that represents the percentage of economic growth? Thus, one’s new property tax will be the old tax plus a percentage increase in tandem with economic growth? Perhaps that would be too easy, it would not allow for the employment of temporary assessors and wastage of taxpayers’ money.

The citizens ought not to be concerned about new property taxes soon. Under the proposed system such a tax cannot happen for years. Citizens should however be concerned about registering their properties as the fines that can emanate from non-registration could make proposed property tax revenue look like pocket change.

STEVE ALVAREZ

via e-mail
My problem is not the collection if house taxes. I will gladly pay the tax.

My problem is where and what the money is being used for.

Clearly it has been shown and spoken by a red government MP that the plan is to move the monies to other areas rather that where u live.

That is my problem, there is no accountability

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » January 14th, 2022, 1:52 pm

Court of Appeal rules 2017 Property Tax Mandatory Data Collection was Illegal and Unconstitutional

The Court of Appeal has ruled that the Government’s brief move to implement a mandatory data collection exercise for the implementation of property tax in 2017 was illegal and breached citizens’ constitutional rights.

Delivering a written judgement, earlier this morning, Appellate Judges Peter Rajkumar, Charmaine Pemberton and Vasheist Kokaram reversed the decision of High Court Judge Jacqueline Wilson, who dismissed civic activist Devant Maharaj’s lawsuit on the issue in 2018.

Justice Rajkumar, who wrote the substantive judgement, ruled that the Commissioner of Valuations had no legal authority under Section 6 of the Valuation of Land Act to require Maharaj and other property owners to submit a valuation return form on or before June 10, 2017 and that property owners were under no corresponding obligation to do so.

Rajkumar and his colleagues stated that Maharaj was only entitled to declarations over the policy, which was clarified by the Government after Maharaj brought his lawsuit.

“Because the Commissioner reversed course at the first opportunity , and the evidence suggests inadvertence rather than highhanded conduct or intent to breach statute or the Constitution, declarations of breaches will therefore suffice,” Rajkumar said.

He was also careful to note that the judgement did not extend to the Government’s current data collection exercise which is being done under a different statutory regime. The current deadline for submission under the new policy, which is yet to be challenged, is January 31.

“Nothing herein is intended to be construed as affecting that exercise which is not before this court on this appeal,” Rajkumar said.

While the decision in the case means that the forms that property owners, who would have submitted them on the basis of the previous mandatory nature of the policy before it was reversed, cannot now be used, the panel suggested that some affected persons may wish to leave their data in the system for use under the current policy.

“Some persons may be content to have their information remain with the Commissioner even though they provided it on the basis that it was mandatory that they do so rather than go through the entire exercise at such future time if required,” Rajkumar said.

As a secondary issue in the case, the appeal panel ruled that previous policy breached Maharaj’s constitutional rights to protection of the law and respect for his private life.

Justice Kokaram, who dealt specifically with the latter, noted that mandatory policy for the disclosure of personal information such as telephone numbers and email addresses caused the breach.

“The unlawful demand for this private information robs the interaction between the individual and the State of its legitimacy. An illegitimate power to make the request places the demand in the sphere of exclusion,” Kokaram said.

Maharaj was represented by Anand Ramlogan, SC, Renuka Rambhajan, Kent Samlal , Jayanti Lutchmedial, Jared Jagroo, and Vishaal Siewsaran.

https://www.cnc3.co.tt/court-of-appeal- ... stitional/

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby zoom rader » January 14th, 2022, 2:08 pm

Jah bless the right thinking Court and curse the red government MC

The MC AG looses yet another case
Last edited by zoom rader on January 14th, 2022, 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby Dizzy28 » January 14th, 2022, 2:10 pm

So that's another L for Faris seeing as AG Office was 2nd Defendant!!

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zoom rader
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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby zoom rader » January 14th, 2022, 2:13 pm

Dizzy28 wrote:So that's another L for Faris seeing as AG Office was 2nd Defendant!!
Yup,

I blame Kamala for his losses

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby Mmoney607 » January 14th, 2022, 2:19 pm

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:Court of Appeal rules 2017 Property Tax Mandatory Data Collection was Illegal and Unconstitutional

The Court of Appeal has ruled that the Government’s brief move to implement a mandatory data collection exercise for the implementation of property tax in 2017 was illegal and breached citizens’ constitutional rights.

Delivering a written judgement, earlier this morning, Appellate Judges Peter Rajkumar, Charmaine Pemberton and Vasheist Kokaram reversed the decision of High Court Judge Jacqueline Wilson, who dismissed civic activist Devant Maharaj’s lawsuit on the issue in 2018.

Justice Rajkumar, who wrote the substantive judgement, ruled that the Commissioner of Valuations had no legal authority under Section 6 of the Valuation of Land Act to require Maharaj and other property owners to submit a valuation return form on or before June 10, 2017 and that property owners were under no corresponding obligation to do so.

Rajkumar and his colleagues stated that Maharaj was only entitled to declarations over the policy, which was clarified by the Government after Maharaj brought his lawsuit.

“Because the Commissioner reversed course at the first opportunity , and the evidence suggests inadvertence rather than highhanded conduct or intent to breach statute or the Constitution, declarations of breaches will therefore suffice,” Rajkumar said.

He was also careful to note that the judgement did not extend to the Government’s current data collection exercise which is being done under a different statutory regime. The current deadline for submission under the new policy, which is yet to be challenged, is January 31.

“Nothing herein is intended to be construed as affecting that exercise which is not before this court on this appeal,” Rajkumar said.

While the decision in the case means that the forms that property owners, who would have submitted them on the basis of the previous mandatory nature of the policy before it was reversed, cannot now be used, the panel suggested that some affected persons may wish to leave their data in the system for use under the current policy.

“Some persons may be content to have their information remain with the Commissioner even though they provided it on the basis that it was mandatory that they do so rather than go through the entire exercise at such future time if required,” Rajkumar said.

As a secondary issue in the case, the appeal panel ruled that previous policy breached Maharaj’s constitutional rights to protection of the law and respect for his private life.

Justice Kokaram, who dealt specifically with the latter, noted that mandatory policy for the disclosure of personal information such as telephone numbers and email addresses caused the breach.

“The unlawful demand for this private information robs the interaction between the individual and the State of its legitimacy. An illegitimate power to make the request places the demand in the sphere of exclusion,” Kokaram said.

Maharaj was represented by Anand Ramlogan, SC, Renuka Rambhajan, Kent Samlal , Jayanti Lutchmedial, Jared Jagroo, and Vishaal Siewsaran.

https://www.cnc3.co.tt/court-of-appeal- ... stitional/


We have a little bit of hope, as long as non-pnm judges hear matters, the court system actually works

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby Dizzy28 » January 14th, 2022, 2:25 pm

Fyard Hosein real making bank under Faris. See he's listed on the 2018 judgement and wasn't he on the Cremation case against Maha Sabha yesterday as well.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby bluefete » January 14th, 2022, 4:50 pm

So somebody file a constitutional motion before January 31, 2022 for this new exercise, nah, please.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby VexXx Dogg » January 14th, 2022, 7:10 pm

It has no bearing on the current exercise, so is it really a hollow victory?

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby bluefete » January 14th, 2022, 7:21 pm

VexXx Dogg wrote:It has no bearing on the current exercise, so is it really a hollow victory?


It can be a launch pad for someone to challenge the current exercise.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby Phone Surgeon » January 14th, 2022, 7:37 pm

VexXx Dogg wrote:It has no bearing on the current exercise, so is it really a hollow victory?
Them lawyers counting them hundreds of thousands in fees all the way to the bank

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby 88sins » January 14th, 2022, 9:35 pm

VexXx Dogg wrote:It has no bearing on the current exercise, so is it really a hollow victory?

Yes and no
Current exercise can continue as usual, but I suspect its probable that they will not be able to use the data collected previously.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby De Dragon » January 14th, 2022, 9:50 pm

JUHN Scarfy, Impsy and Arse Wari could kiss my seeds!. I eh filing no MC declaration, EVER!

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby zoom rader » January 15th, 2022, 2:07 am

De Dragon wrote:JUHN Scarfy, Impsy and Arse Wari could kiss my seeds!. I eh filing no MC declaration, EVER!
How much marble tiles you have on ur floor?

Dem MC want to see what you have in ur bedroom

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby zoom rader » January 15th, 2022, 2:10 am

88sins wrote:
VexXx Dogg wrote:It has no bearing on the current exercise, so is it really a hollow victory?

Yes and no
Current exercise can continue as usual, but I suspect its probable that they will not be able to use the data collected previously.
They still want to see your bedroom

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby 88sins » January 15th, 2022, 7:11 am

zoom rader wrote:
88sins wrote:
VexXx Dogg wrote:It has no bearing on the current exercise, so is it really a hollow victory?

Yes and no
Current exercise can continue as usual, but I suspect its probable that they will not be able to use the data collected previously.
They still want to see your bedroom

That may be
But at least now, if they can't use the data they collected previously, they gonna be even farther from the 50% target they need to start.
And once people continue to refuse to submit, I don't see them having much of a chance at reaching that goal

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby death365 » January 15th, 2022, 8:21 am

Oh people in trinituner sounding like b4 covid reach trini ....


Saying it go never reach trini ... etc


Facts are that sooner rather than later it will reach the threshold and will be implemented....

That's the inconvenient truth!

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby timelapse » January 15th, 2022, 9:16 am

To put it nicely...
Firetruck the red party.

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zoom rader
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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby zoom rader » January 15th, 2022, 11:55 am

timelapse wrote:To put it nicely...
Firetruck the red party.
And Rowlee MC.

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Re: Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

Postby 88sins » January 15th, 2022, 12:19 pm

death365 wrote:Oh people in trinituner sounding like b4 covid reach trini ....


Saying it go never reach trini ... etc


Facts are that sooner rather than later it will reach the threshold and will be implemented....


That's the inconvenient truth!

Keep telling yourself that, just remember that you have to keep adjusting your definition of "sooner"

Because if it's as I suspect, that they can't use the data collected previously, that alone removes a sizeable chunk of the percentage impsbutt claims that they have, and sets them back significantly.
And once the current trend of non-compliance continues, (and it probably will, because in reality they strapped for resources to track down and prosecute that many people, and it takes forever and two weeks to get government employees to do anything other than scratch their behinds) it go take years for them to reach 50%

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