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FrankChag
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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 14th, 2022, 5:31 pm

bluefete wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:
FrankChag wrote: Singing songs however is haram, but it isn't shirk (blasphemy), unless the song itself is blasphemous.

Make sense of this for me please.
What kind of songs? Songs to Allah? Pop songs? Non-religious islamic songs?
What about playing of certain musical instruments?
Is playing the steelpan haram?
Are there some drums you cannot play because of the material used?


There is a good book on this: https://darussalamstore.com/en/singing-and-music-eng
Basically, as far as I know, singing, instruments, etc. are all generally impermissible, except for the duff in weddings.
https://abdurrahman.org/2015/06/04/a-great-piece-of-advice-to-the-men-and-women-who-listen-to-music/


Nah, I do not believe what I just read there.

I advise all men and women not to listen to music, because they bring about evil consequences.

So when staunch, fundamentalist Muslim, Inshan Ishmael is playing Arabic music on IBN, he is doing something that is haram.

Did anyone ever tell him that? Or is it that the people are not singing but chanting? Is there a difference?

So singing songs of praise to Allah is haram as well?

And this as well:

And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, or the Verses of the Qur’ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire). (Surah Luqman, 31: 6)

How do the scholars interpret "idle talks" as music and singing?

Commentators of the Qur’an interpret “idol talk” to mean singing and it is equally applied to every sound produced by musical instruments and diversions. This is the view held by most scholars of the Qur’an (may Allah have mercy on them).

Do people blindly follow whatever the "scholars" say? Sounds much like other religions to me. Whatever, the priest, imam, pundit says is the gospel truth. Really?


The rulings are not derived by what Inshan Ishmael does or doesn't do, or what anyone else including Scholars of Islaam do or don't do, other than what is in the Quran and the Sunnah (practices) of the Messenger Muhammad, salAllahu alaihi was sallam. So no one is supposed to blindly follow anyone except him (i.e., the Messenger of Allah). Shaykh bin Baz is no ordinary fellow though. He was the Chairman of the Permanent Committee on Fatwa, which is one of the most senior scholarly positions you can attain, so his statements are not given or taken lightly. And, the evidence (citations, etc) from which the rulings are derived are usually given, or well known.

If this helps though:
AFAIK, there is NO evidence in the Quran or Sunnah for music, chanting or singing as a form of worship or praise, and the one who says so should bring his evidence for it.
Singing is a form of speech (melodic speech), so singing would fall under the category of idle speech.

This is a difficult one for many people; music, singing is everywhere. But it is what it is (haram).

A brother said to me once: The heart is like a vessel, so why would you fill that vessel with the voice of the Shaytan (the devil) when you can fill it with the Speech of Allah (i.e. the Quran).


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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby abducted » January 14th, 2022, 5:51 pm

FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:
FrankChag wrote: Singing songs however is haram, but it isn't shirk (blasphemy), unless the song itself is blasphemous.

Make sense of this for me please.
What kind of songs? Songs to Allah? Pop songs? Non-religious islamic songs?
What about playing of certain musical instruments?
Is playing the steelpan haram?
Are there some drums you cannot play because of the material used?


There is a good book on this: https://darussalamstore.com/en/singing-and-music-eng
Basically, as far as I know, singing, instruments, etc. are all generally impermissible, except for the duff in weddings.
https://abdurrahman.org/2015/06/04/a-great-piece-of-advice-to-the-men-and-women-who-listen-to-music/


Nah, I do not believe what I just read there.

I advise all men and women not to listen to music, because they bring about evil consequences.

So when staunch, fundamentalist Muslim, Inshan Ishmael is playing Arabic music on IBN, he is doing something that is haram.

Did anyone ever tell him that? Or is it that the people are not singing but chanting? Is there a difference?

So singing songs of praise to Allah is haram as well?

And this as well:

And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, or the Verses of the Qur’ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire). (Surah Luqman, 31: 6)

How do the scholars interpret "idle talks" as music and singing?

Commentators of the Qur’an interpret “idol talk” to mean singing and it is equally applied to every sound produced by musical instruments and diversions. This is the view held by most scholars of the Qur’an (may Allah have mercy on them).

Do people blindly follow whatever the "scholars" say? Sounds much like other religions to me. Whatever, the priest, imam, pundit says is the gospel truth. Really?


The rulings are not derived by what Inshan Ishmael does or doesn't do, or what anyone else including Scholars of Islaam do or don't do, other than what is in the Quran and the Sunnah (practices) of the Messenger Muhammad, salAllahu alaihi was sallam. So no one is supposed to blindly follow anyone except him (i.e., the Messenger of Allah). Shaykh bin Baz is no ordinary fellow though. He was the Chairman of the Permanent Committee on Fatwa, which is one of the most senior scholarly positions you can attain, so his statements are not given or taken lightly.

If this helps though:
AFAIK, there is NO evidence in the Quran or Sunnah for music, chanting or singing as a form of worship or praise, and the one who says so should bring his evidence for it.
Singing is a form of speech (melodic speech), so singing would fall under the category of idle speech.

This is a difficult one for many people; music, singing is everywhere. But it is what it is (haram).

A brother said to me once: The heart is like a vessel, so why would you fill that vessel with the voice of the Shaytan (the devil) when you can fill it with the Speech of Allah (i.e. the Quran).


Inshan Ishmael is an idiot, and only uses Islam to his financial advantage, he is obnoxious and coniving which is not Islamic at all, but concerning what you said, why is the duff the only instrument allowed?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Phone Surgeon » January 14th, 2022, 6:12 pm

FrankChag wrote:
Phone Surgeon wrote:If you know about it and accept it then you are intentionally profiting from it.

You aren't being forced to accept it. You can decide to refuse it



Retirement pension
The first question of Fatwa no. 7121.

Q 1: I was enrolled in the Egyptian Armed Forces as a volunteer from September 1967 A.D. Till January of 1981 A.D., and served in the Army for approximately thirteen years. They used to deduct part of my monthly salary to cover insurance and pensions. This was obligatory. After Allah guided me to understand Islam, I resigned, and thanks to Allah, my resignation was accepted. However, they started paying me 56.54 pounds as a monthly pension. A brother told me that the money of this pension is Riba (usury) and that I must refuse it. Is this correct? What is the correct ruling concerning this pension?

A: If the reality is as you mentioned, it is permissible for you to take the retirement pension as it is a reward for the period you served in the government.


May Allah grant us success. May peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions.


The Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta'
`Abdullah ibn Qa`ud, Member
`Abdullah ibn Ghudayyan, Member
`Abdul-Razzaq `Afify, Deputy Chairman
`Abdul-`Aziz ibn `Abdullah ibn Baz, Chairman


Source: https://www.alifta.gov.sa/En/IftaConten ... 1&BookID=7

Loopholes galore.

Doesn't make sense though. If it as straightforward as they say. Once you profit from something haram you going to burn in the fires of hell

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bluefete » January 14th, 2022, 6:43 pm

FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:
FrankChag wrote: Singing songs however is haram, but it isn't shirk (blasphemy), unless the song itself is blasphemous.

Make sense of this for me please.
What kind of songs? Songs to Allah? Pop songs? Non-religious islamic songs?
What about playing of certain musical instruments?
Is playing the steelpan haram?
Are there some drums you cannot play because of the material used?


There is a good book on this: https://darussalamstore.com/en/singing-and-music-eng
Basically, as far as I know, singing, instruments, etc. are all generally impermissible, except for the duff in weddings.
https://abdurrahman.org/2015/06/04/a-great-piece-of-advice-to-the-men-and-women-who-listen-to-music/


Nah, I do not believe what I just read there.

I advise all men and women not to listen to music, because they bring about evil consequences.

So when staunch, fundamentalist Muslim, Inshan Ishmael is playing Arabic music on IBN, he is doing something that is haram.

Did anyone ever tell him that? Or is it that the people are not singing but chanting? Is there a difference?

So singing songs of praise to Allah is haram as well?

And this as well:

And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, or the Verses of the Qur’ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire). (Surah Luqman, 31: 6)

How do the scholars interpret "idle talks" as music and singing?

Commentators of the Qur’an interpret “idol talk” to mean singing and it is equally applied to every sound produced by musical instruments and diversions. This is the view held by most scholars of the Qur’an (may Allah have mercy on them).

Do people blindly follow whatever the "scholars" say? Sounds much like other religions to me. Whatever, the priest, imam, pundit says is the gospel truth. Really?


The rulings are not derived by what Inshan Ishmael does or doesn't do, or what anyone else including Scholars of Islaam do or don't do, other than what is in the Quran and the Sunnah (practices) of the Messenger Muhammad, salAllahu alaihi was sallam. So no one is supposed to blindly follow anyone except him (i.e., the Messenger of Allah). Shaykh bin Baz is no ordinary fellow though. He was the Chairman of the Permanent Committee on Fatwa, which is one of the most senior scholarly positions you can attain, so his statements are not given or taken lightly. And, the evidence (citations, etc) from which the rulings are derived are usually given, or well known.

If this helps though:
AFAIK, there is NO evidence in the Quran or Sunnah for music, chanting or singing as a form of worship or praise, and the one who says so should bring his evidence for it.
Singing is a form of speech (melodic speech), so singing would fall under the category of idle speech.

This is a difficult one for many people; music, singing is everywhere. But it is what it is (haram).

A brother said to me once: The heart is like a vessel, so why would you fill that vessel with the voice of the Shaytan (the devil) when you can fill it with the Speech of Allah (i.e. the Quran).



But don't people use melodic speech to recite the Qu'ran?

Isn't that haram?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bluefete » January 14th, 2022, 6:56 pm

Phone Surgeon wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
Phone Surgeon wrote:If you know about it and accept it then you are intentionally profiting from it.

You aren't being forced to accept it. You can decide to refuse it



Retirement pension
The first question of Fatwa no. 7121.

Q 1: I was enrolled in the Egyptian Armed Forces as a volunteer from September 1967 A.D. Till January of 1981 A.D., and served in the Army for approximately thirteen years. They used to deduct part of my monthly salary to cover insurance and pensions. This was obligatory. After Allah guided me to understand Islam, I resigned, and thanks to Allah, my resignation was accepted. However, they started paying me 56.54 pounds as a monthly pension. A brother told me that the money of this pension is Riba (usury) and that I must refuse it. Is this correct? What is the correct ruling concerning this pension?

A: If the reality is as you mentioned, it is permissible for you to take the retirement pension as it is a reward for the period you served in the government.


May Allah grant us success. May peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions.


The Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta'
`Abdullah ibn Qa`ud, Member
`Abdullah ibn Ghudayyan, Member
`Abdul-Razzaq `Afify, Deputy Chairman
`Abdul-`Aziz ibn `Abdullah ibn Baz, Chairman


Source: https://www.alifta.gov.sa/En/IftaConten ... 1&BookID=7

Loopholes galore.

Doesn't make sense though. If it as straightforward as they say. Once you profit from something haram you going to burn in the fires of hell


To get around the "usury" concept, they add on a "fee" to your loan which is tantamount to interest, but not called interest.

However, it comes down to six of one and a half dozen of the other. Spin it how you want.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 14th, 2022, 7:13 pm

abducted wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:
FrankChag wrote: Singing songs however is haram, but it isn't shirk (blasphemy), unless the song itself is blasphemous.

Make sense of this for me please.
What kind of songs? Songs to Allah? Pop songs? Non-religious islamic songs?
What about playing of certain musical instruments?
Is playing the steelpan haram?
Are there some drums you cannot play because of the material used?


There is a good book on this: https://darussalamstore.com/en/singing-and-music-eng
Basically, as far as I know, singing, instruments, etc. are all generally impermissible, except for the duff in weddings.
https://abdurrahman.org/2015/06/04/a-great-piece-of-advice-to-the-men-and-women-who-listen-to-music/


Nah, I do not believe what I just read there.

I advise all men and women not to listen to music, because they bring about evil consequences.

So when staunch, fundamentalist Muslim, Inshan Ishmael is playing Arabic music on IBN, he is doing something that is haram.

Did anyone ever tell him that? Or is it that the people are not singing but chanting? Is there a difference?

So singing songs of praise to Allah is haram as well?

And this as well:

And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, or the Verses of the Qur’ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire). (Surah Luqman, 31: 6)

How do the scholars interpret "idle talks" as music and singing?

Commentators of the Qur’an interpret “idol talk” to mean singing and it is equally applied to every sound produced by musical instruments and diversions. This is the view held by most scholars of the Qur’an (may Allah have mercy on them).

Do people blindly follow whatever the "scholars" say? Sounds much like other religions to me. Whatever, the priest, imam, pundit says is the gospel truth. Really?


The rulings are not derived by what Inshan Ishmael does or doesn't do, or what anyone else including Scholars of Islaam do or don't do, other than what is in the Quran and the Sunnah (practices) of the Messenger Muhammad, salAllahu alaihi was sallam. So no one is supposed to blindly follow anyone except him (i.e., the Messenger of Allah). Shaykh bin Baz is no ordinary fellow though. He was the Chairman of the Permanent Committee on Fatwa, which is one of the most senior scholarly positions you can attain, so his statements are not given or taken lightly.

If this helps though:
AFAIK, there is NO evidence in the Quran or Sunnah for music, chanting or singing as a form of worship or praise, and the one who says so should bring his evidence for it.
Singing is a form of speech (melodic speech), so singing would fall under the category of idle speech.

This is a difficult one for many people; music, singing is everywhere. But it is what it is (haram).

A brother said to me once: The heart is like a vessel, so why would you fill that vessel with the voice of the Shaytan (the devil) when you can fill it with the Speech of Allah (i.e. the Quran).


Inshan Ishmael is an idiot, and only uses Islam to his financial advantage, he is obnoxious and coniving which is not Islamic at all, but concerning what you said, why is the duff the only instrument allowed?


I don't know. And it's only in specific situations, like weddings. There is a narrow permissibility for the singing of women (in private) at weddings.

Question: What is the ruling of women dancing amongst themselves during a wedding or other than that? May Allaah reward you.
Answer: There is no harm in the dancing of women on the ocassion of marriage and the beating of the duff (a simple drum) along with some singing of virtuous songs (not containing sinful speech) - because this is from the announcement of the marriage that has been commanded by the sharee'ah - However with the condition that this is done in the company of women only, with voices that are not raised so that they pass outside of the venue, and with the condition that there is complete seclusion and screening. Also that the awrah (the areas of the body that should be concealed) are not revealed whilst dancing, such as her legs, or her arms or her upper arms - and that which is shown from these is in accordance with the customs/habits of the Muslim women in the presense of (other) women.

Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan
"Al-Muntaqaa", ash-Shaykh al-Allaamah al-Fawzaan, 2/172,172.
Translated by Abu Khadeejah




There is also the permissibility for beneficial poetry.
These do not fall under the category of lahu (idle speech).

They are not sung or chanted, such as the famous poem below which made Imaam Ahmad (Islamic Scholar from the 9th century CE) cry..







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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bluefete » January 14th, 2022, 7:16 pm

This has some stuff but it still makes absolutely no sense.

How can something be haram and permissible at the same time?

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1377/me ... recitation

This making the voice melodious in recitation should be done in a natural manner, not by means of teaching and training according to the rules of music.

Ibn al-Qayyim mentioned that reciting Qur’aan with a tune and in a melodious voice, if it is done naturally with no exaggeration or special teaching or training, then it is permissible. If extra effort is added to the natural tone to make it more beautiful, such as when Abu Moosa al-Ash’ari said to the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “If I had known (you were listening), I would have made it more beautiful for you,” then that is OK. But if the reciting in a melodious voice is done in an artificial manner, with special training and musical rhythms, this is something which the salaf despised, and which they criticized and condemned. It is known that the salaf used to recite the Qur’aan in a sad tone, making their voices beautiful and giving it a sad tone sometimes and a joyful tone sometimes. This is something natural.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 14th, 2022, 7:23 pm

Phone Surgeon wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
Phone Surgeon wrote:If you know about it and accept it then you are intentionally profiting from it.

You aren't being forced to accept it. You can decide to refuse it



Retirement pension
The first question of Fatwa no. 7121.

Q 1: I was enrolled in the Egyptian Armed Forces as a volunteer from September 1967 A.D. Till January of 1981 A.D., and served in the Army for approximately thirteen years. They used to deduct part of my monthly salary to cover insurance and pensions. This was obligatory. After Allah guided me to understand Islam, I resigned, and thanks to Allah, my resignation was accepted. However, they started paying me 56.54 pounds as a monthly pension. A brother told me that the money of this pension is Riba (usury) and that I must refuse it. Is this correct? What is the correct ruling concerning this pension?

A: If the reality is as you mentioned, it is permissible for you to take the retirement pension as it is a reward for the period you served in the government.


May Allah grant us success. May peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions.


The Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta'
`Abdullah ibn Qa`ud, Member
`Abdullah ibn Ghudayyan, Member
`Abdul-Razzaq `Afify, Deputy Chairman
`Abdul-`Aziz ibn `Abdullah ibn Baz, Chairman


Source: https://www.alifta.gov.sa/En/IftaConten ... 1&BookID=7

Loopholes galore.

Doesn't make sense though. If it as straightforward as they say. Once you profit from something haram you going to burn in the fires of hell


The ruling of a group of senior scholars on a matter that they have studied all their lives seem to carry more weight tbh.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 14th, 2022, 7:30 pm

bluefete wrote:
Phone Surgeon wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
Phone Surgeon wrote:If you know about it and accept it then you are intentionally profiting from it.

You aren't being forced to accept it. You can decide to refuse it



Retirement pension
The first question of Fatwa no. 7121.

Q 1: I was enrolled in the Egyptian Armed Forces as a volunteer from September 1967 A.D. Till January of 1981 A.D., and served in the Army for approximately thirteen years. They used to deduct part of my monthly salary to cover insurance and pensions. This was obligatory. After Allah guided me to understand Islam, I resigned, and thanks to Allah, my resignation was accepted. However, they started paying me 56.54 pounds as a monthly pension. A brother told me that the money of this pension is Riba (usury) and that I must refuse it. Is this correct? What is the correct ruling concerning this pension?

A: If the reality is as you mentioned, it is permissible for you to take the retirement pension as it is a reward for the period you served in the government.


May Allah grant us success. May peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions.


The Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta'
`Abdullah ibn Qa`ud, Member
`Abdullah ibn Ghudayyan, Member
`Abdul-Razzaq `Afify, Deputy Chairman
`Abdul-`Aziz ibn `Abdullah ibn Baz, Chairman


Source: https://www.alifta.gov.sa/En/IftaConten ... 1&BookID=7

Loopholes galore.

Doesn't make sense though. If it as straightforward as they say. Once you profit from something haram you going to burn in the fires of hell


To get around the "usury" concept, they add on a "fee" to your loan which is tantamount to interest, but not called interest.

However, it comes down to six of one and a half dozen of the other. Spin it how you want.


Not sure exactly of what you're referring to, but if the seller charges 'profit' on a sale, then that is part of the sale, and not usury.

"Those who eat Ribâ (usury) will not stand (on the Day of Resurrection) except like the standing of a person beaten by Shaitân (Satan) leading him to insanity. That is because
they say: "Trading is only like Ribâ (usury)," whereas Allâh has permitted trading and forbidden Ribâ (usury). So whosoever receives an admonition from his Lord and stops eating Ribâ (usury) shall not be punished for the past; his case is for Allâh (to judge); but whoever returns [to Ribâ (usury)], such are the dwellers of the Fire - they will abide therein."
https://quran.com/2/275


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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Phone Surgeon » January 14th, 2022, 7:33 pm

Seems like they are interpreting the rules in a way so that the followers can benefit even though in their hearts and minds they know what they are doing is wrong.

I find that religion not sounding as clear cut as yuh say franky.

If men hadda interpret things that haram but sometimes permissible but other times not permissible. Is either it haram or not.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Phone Surgeon » January 14th, 2022, 7:36 pm

I not sure if you understand what I said though.

I talking about pensions that come about from investments in haram businesses.

If trinidad government invests in witco or they use nlcb money to pay pensions etc....

Isn't that haram?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 14th, 2022, 7:48 pm

bluefete wrote:This has some stuff but it still makes absolutely no sense.

How can something be haram and permissible at the same time?

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1377/me ... recitation

This making the voice melodious in recitation should be done in a natural manner, not by means of teaching and training according to the rules of music.

Ibn al-Qayyim mentioned that reciting Qur’aan with a tune and in a melodious voice, if it is done naturally with no exaggeration or special teaching or training, then it is permissible. If extra effort is added to the natural tone to make it more beautiful, such as when Abu Moosa al-Ash’ari said to the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “If I had known (you were listening), I would have made it more beautiful for you,” then that is OK. But if the reciting in a melodious voice is done in an artificial manner, with special training and musical rhythms, this is something which the salaf despised, and which they criticized and condemned. It is known that the salaf used to recite the Qur’aan in a sad tone, making their voices beautiful and giving it a sad tone sometimes and a joyful tone sometimes. This is something natural.


"...And recite the Qur’ân (aloud) in a slow, (pleasant tone and) style." https://quran.com/73/4

The Quran is recited in with tarteel (slow, pleasant melodious tone). It is not simply read on flatly. This is different from singing a song, with hooks, which contains lyrics with: "evil and immorality, haram relationships between men and women, stirs desires of yearning and love, stirs desires that lead to fornication", etc. (from the Book referenced above).

This is the recitation of the chapter 20 of the Quran (Surah Ta Ha), with tarteel, or the halaal ghina mention by Imaam bin Qayyim you cited.


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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 14th, 2022, 7:53 pm

Phone Surgeon wrote:Seems like they are interpreting the rules in a way so that the followers can benefit even though in their hearts and minds they know what they are doing is wrong.

I find that religion not sounding as clear cut as yuh say franky.

If men hadda interpret things that haram but sometimes permissible but other times not permissible. Is either it haram or not.


No. Ezpz..

The general principles of jurisprudence are:
* Regarding worship: Everything is forbidden (haram), except what is specifically permitted (in the Quran and Sunnah)
* Regarding normal daily stuff: Everything is halaal, except what is specifically haram (like alcohol, pork, etc)
* Where there is hardship, the ruling is ease (eg, there's a pandemic and you can't congregate in the masjid, so pray home)

There are others, but those are the basics.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 14th, 2022, 7:55 pm

Phone Surgeon wrote:I not sure if you understand what I said though.

I talking about pensions that come about from investments in haram businesses.

If trinidad government invests in witco or they use nlcb money to pay pensions etc....

Isn't that haram?


I really don't know.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bluefete » January 14th, 2022, 9:12 pm

If this helps though:

AFAIK, there is NO evidence in the Quran or Sunnah for music, chanting or singing as a form of worship or praise, and the one who says so should bring his evidence for it.


I like to go directly to the source so I am asking you:

Where EXACTLY in the Qu'ran does Allah forbid singing? I am sure you would not be able to point it out.

If it is not explicitly stated in the Qu'ran then anything someone says to the contrary is haram.

It seems to me that you are a follower of one type of Islam. Just as there are many sects in Christianity and Hinduism, so there are in Islam. These sects follow different aspects of their religion.

The sect you follow considers singing to be haram.

Other sects do not follow that especially if the Qu'ran does not forbid it.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Phone Surgeon » January 14th, 2022, 9:18 pm

What you saying? That the quaran and Islam has many interpretations and isn't clear cut and people warp it for their own uses or or benefit from it when need be?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby mamoo_pagal » January 15th, 2022, 12:41 am

bluefete wrote:If this helps though:

AFAIK, there is NO evidence in the Quran or Sunnah for music, chanting or singing as a form of worship or praise, and the one who says so should bring his evidence for it.


I like to go directly to the source so I am asking you:

Where EXACTLY in the Qu'ran does Allah forbid singing? I am sure you would not be able to point it out.

If it is not explicitly stated in the Qu'ran then anything someone says to the contrary is haram.

It seems to me that you are a follower of one type of Islam. Just as there are many sects in Christianity and Hinduism, so there are in Islam. These sects follow different aspects of their religion.

The sect you follow considers singing to be haram.

Other sects do not follow that especially if the Qu'ran does not forbid it.
One of the most amazing form of worship I ever heard, actually started exploring Islam upon discovering this:

https://youtu.be/4rVG9oKEvME




There's a magic that Islam carries, an underlying current that unifies man's ego to the heart of the soul. Just as the Christ demonstrated......the sanatan dharma.

https://youtu.be/FKV2oeS4vw8


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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 15th, 2022, 1:54 am

bluefete wrote:If this helps though:

AFAIK, there is NO evidence in the Quran or Sunnah for music, chanting or singing as a form of worship or praise, and the one who says so should bring his evidence for it.


I like to go directly to the source so I am asking you:

Where EXACTLY in the Qu'ran does Allah forbid singing? I am sure you would not be able to point it out.

If it is not explicitly stated in the Qu'ran then anything someone says to the contrary is haram.

It seems to me that you are a follower of one type of Islam. Just as there are many sects in Christianity and Hinduism, so there are in Islam. These sects follow different aspects of their religion.

The sect you follow considers singing to be haram.

Other sects do not follow that especially if the Qu'ran does not forbid it.


"And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, or the Verses of the Qur’ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire)." https://quran.com/31/6

And, commenting on the above Ayah (Qur’anic verse), Abdullah Ibn Mas`ud (radhiAllahu anhu) swore: “By Allah! The reference in this Ayah is to singing.”


It's easy for someone to write this off as an "interpretation"-thing (especially since there is so much singing and chanting in "sufism", which btw should never be taken as Islam by default).. until you come to understand the following:

- Rulings are taken both from the Quran, AND the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah, salallahu alayhiwassallam (by the Command of Allah in the Quran here: https://quran.com/3/31); the interpretation of these comes from the three generations of Companions (disciples) of the Prophet (for example: see Sahih al-Bukhari 6429).

- Idle speech above, incorporates singing, not out of whim, but because this was the statement of Abdullah ibn Masud (radhiallahu anhu), who was a Scholar-Companion (disciple) of the Prophet, salallahu alaihi was sallam; we take our rulings and interpretation of the Quran and Sunnah from the Companions because they were with the Messenger day in and day out. That alone should suffice any Muslim in any sect. (alas of course, it doesn't)

- There is no evidence in the Sunnah of using singing for worship, remembrance or anything like that, and as mentioned, for worship, everything is haram unless there is some evidence for it. In Islam, we don't just invent ways of worship like some religions (e.g. jogging for Jesus...). Worship has to have a textual basis or else it is rejected {{He who innovates something in this matter of ours [Islam] that is not of it will have it rejected [by Allah [Bukhari & Muslim]}} So if someone is claiming we can use music, singing, chanting as a form of remembrance and worship, let him bring his proof from the Quran and the Sunnah. The proof is on the claimant.

- reciting the Quran in a melodious voice does not mean you can take verses of the Quran and make songs with them, that cause euphoria, etc, like the sufis for example. This is forbidden; Lot's of examples here: https://www.sayingsofthesalaf.net/recit ... ke-a-song/

In case you haven't realized, I've reached the limit of my knowledge regarding this topic. I only tried to say what the scholars have said regarding it. For me, these are sufficient evidence for singing and music, etc., to be haram. If you need more convincing out of fear of Allah, I suggest the book I mentioned above, which goes into the topic in some serious depth, including ringtones, etc. If you're unconvinced, and you wish to continue with what you're doing (listening to music, singing, playing musical instruments), you should fear Allah, and ask Him sincerely for guidance.

And Allaah knows best.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 15th, 2022, 2:03 am

mamoo_pagal wrote:...


پاگل پن Paagalpan for sure, Mamoo.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bluefete » January 15th, 2022, 5:12 am

FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:If this helps though:

AFAIK, there is NO evidence in the Quran or Sunnah for music, chanting or singing as a form of worship or praise, and the one who says so should bring his evidence for it.


I like to go directly to the source so I am asking you:

Where EXACTLY in the Qu'ran does Allah forbid singing? I am sure you would not be able to point it out.

If it is not explicitly stated in the Qu'ran then anything someone says to the contrary is haram.

It seems to me that you are a follower of one type of Islam. Just as there are many sects in Christianity and Hinduism, so there are in Islam. These sects follow different aspects of their religion.

The sect you follow considers singing to be haram.

Other sects do not follow that especially if the Qu'ran does not forbid it.


"And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, or the Verses of the Qur’ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire)." https://quran.com/31/6

And, commenting on the above Ayah (Qur’anic verse), Abdullah Ibn Mas`ud (radhiAllahu anhu) swore: “By Allah! The reference in this Ayah is to singing.”


It's easy for someone to write this off as an "interpretation"-thing (especially since there is so much singing and chanting in "sufism", which btw should never be taken as Islam by default).. until you come to understand the following:

- Rulings are taken both from the Quran, AND the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah, salallahu alayhiwassallam (by the Command of Allah in the Quran here: https://quran.com/3/31); the interpretation of these comes from the three generations of Companions (disciples) of the Prophet (for example: see Sahih al-Bukhari 6429).

- Idle speech above, incorporates singing, not out of whim, but because this was the statement of Abdullah ibn Masud (radhiallahu anhu), who was a Scholar-Companion (disciple) of the Prophet, salallahu alaihi was sallam; [size=150]we take our rulings and interpretation of the Quran and Sunnah from the Companions because they were with the Messenger day in and day out. That alone should suffice any Muslim in any sect
. (alas of course, it doesn't)

- There is no evidence in the Sunnah of using singing for worship, remembrance or anything like that, and as mentioned, for worship, everything is haram unless there is some evidence for it. In Islam, we don't just invent ways of worship like some religions (e.g. jogging for Jesus...). Worship has to have a textual basis or else it is rejected {{He who innovates something in this matter of ours [Islam] that is not of it will have it rejected [by Allah [Bukhari & Muslim]}} So if someone is claiming we can use music, singing, chanting as a form of remembrance and worship, let him bring his proof from the Quran and the Sunnah. The proof is on the claimant.

- reciting the Quran in a melodious voice does not mean you can take verses of the Quran and make songs with them, that cause euphoria, etc, like the sufis for example. This is forbidden; Lot's of examples here: https://www.sayingsofthesalaf.net/recit ... ke-a-song/

In case you haven't realized, I've reached the limit of my knowledge regarding this topic. I only tried to say what the scholars have said regarding it. For me, these are sufficient evidence for singing and music, etc., to be haram. If you need more convincing out of fear of Allah, I suggest the book I mentioned above, which goes into the topic in some serious depth, including ringtones, etc. If you're unconvinced, and you wish to continue with what you're doing (listening to music, singing, playing musical instruments), you should fear Allah, and ask Him sincerely for guidance.

And Allaah knows best.
[/size]


I do appreciate your explanations. However, you clearly stated that the belief that singing is haram is an "INTERPRETATION" by the Companions of the Prophet.

Did Prophet Muhammed ban singing? That is a moot point if the Qu'ran does not state so explicitly.

Interpretations of scripture by any religion can be a dangerous thing.

That is why, for example, we have people in Christianity who take one line from the Bible and make their own religion from it. Then, when you do read the entire passage, it has totally different meaning.

Good discussion though. Thanks.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby timelapse » January 15th, 2022, 9:10 am

^This is the issue I have with followers of Hadith or the KJB.Once something is subject to human interpretation,it will be subject to the whims of humans

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 15th, 2022, 6:29 pm

bluefete wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:If this helps though:

AFAIK, there is NO evidence in the Quran or Sunnah for music, chanting or singing as a form of worship or praise, and the one who says so should bring his evidence for it.


I like to go directly to the source so I am asking you:

Where EXACTLY in the Qu'ran does Allah forbid singing? I am sure you would not be able to point it out.

If it is not explicitly stated in the Qu'ran then anything someone says to the contrary is haram.

It seems to me that you are a follower of one type of Islam. Just as there are many sects in Christianity and Hinduism, so there are in Islam. These sects follow different aspects of their religion.

The sect you follow considers singing to be haram.

Other sects do not follow that especially if the Qu'ran does not forbid it.


"And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, or the Verses of the Qur’ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire)." https://quran.com/31/6

And, commenting on the above Ayah (Qur’anic verse), Abdullah Ibn Mas`ud (radhiAllahu anhu) swore: “By Allah! The reference in this Ayah is to singing.”


It's easy for someone to write this off as an "interpretation"-thing (especially since there is so much singing and chanting in "sufism", which btw should never be taken as Islam by default).. until you come to understand the following:

- Rulings are taken both from the Quran, AND the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah, salallahu alayhiwassallam (by the Command of Allah in the Quran here: https://quran.com/3/31); the interpretation of these comes from the three generations of Companions (disciples) of the Prophet (for example: see Sahih al-Bukhari 6429).

- Idle speech above, incorporates singing, not out of whim, but because this was the statement of Abdullah ibn Masud (radhiallahu anhu), who was a Scholar-Companion (disciple) of the Prophet, salallahu alaihi was sallam; [size=150]we take our rulings and interpretation of the Quran and Sunnah from the Companions because they were with the Messenger day in and day out. That alone should suffice any Muslim in any sect
. (alas of course, it doesn't)

- There is no evidence in the Sunnah of using singing for worship, remembrance or anything like that, and as mentioned, for worship, everything is haram unless there is some evidence for it. In Islam, we don't just invent ways of worship like some religions (e.g. jogging for Jesus...). Worship has to have a textual basis or else it is rejected {{He who innovates something in this matter of ours [Islam] that is not of it will have it rejected [by Allah [Bukhari & Muslim]}} So if someone is claiming we can use music, singing, chanting as a form of remembrance and worship, let him bring his proof from the Quran and the Sunnah. The proof is on the claimant.

- reciting the Quran in a melodious voice does not mean you can take verses of the Quran and make songs with them, that cause euphoria, etc, like the sufis for example. This is forbidden; Lot's of examples here: https://www.sayingsofthesalaf.net/recit ... ke-a-song/

In case you haven't realized, I've reached the limit of my knowledge regarding this topic. I only tried to say what the scholars have said regarding it. For me, these are sufficient evidence for singing and music, etc., to be haram. If you need more convincing out of fear of Allah, I suggest the book I mentioned above, which goes into the topic in some serious depth, including ringtones, etc. If you're unconvinced, and you wish to continue with what you're doing (listening to music, singing, playing musical instruments), you should fear Allah, and ask Him sincerely for guidance.

And Allaah knows best.
[/size]


I do appreciate your explanations. However, you clearly stated that the belief that singing is haram is an "INTERPRETATION" by the Companions of the Prophet.

Did Prophet Muhammed ban singing? That is a moot point if the Qu'ran does not state so explicitly.

Interpretations of scripture by any religion can be a dangerous thing.

That is why, for example, we have people in Christianity who take one line from the Bible and make their own religion from it. Then, when you do read the entire passage, it has totally different meaning.

Good discussion though. Thanks.


Allow me to clarify, in case this is not clear. The matter is not as simple as that.
Everything in Islaam is very structured, and based on Evidence (adillah). The religion (its beliefs, rulings, etc) is taken from 3 sources, in this order:

(1) The Quran

(2) The Sunnah[1] of the Prophet (ﷺ), narrated as a Hadith (pl. ahadeeth): Allah commands us in the Quran to follow the Messenger[2]. So one cannot say he's "following the Quran only", because in the Quran Allah commands us to follow the Messenger ﷺ. These ahadeeth are graded and collected by different scholars of hadith, the most prominent of them being Imaam Bukhari (from the 9th century) and Imaam Muslim (also from the 9th century CE).

(3) The 3 "generations" of Companions of the Prophet ﷺ (the "Salaf-us-Saleheen"): i.e., his Compaions who were with him (called his Sahaabah), the Sahabah's Companions (who didn't meet the Prophet ﷺ, called the Taabi'ee), and the Companions of the Taabi'ee (ie those who didn't meet the Prophet ﷺ or a Sahabah). The Prophet ﷺ said, "The best people are those of my generation, and then those who will come after them (the next generation), and then those who will come after them (i.e. the next generation),.." [Bukhari]. These 3 generations (radhiallahu anhum) are called the "Salaf-us-Saleheen", or rightly guided generations, based on the Prophet's ﷺ statement above.

Some of the Companions though, were Scholars in their own right, such as Abdullah ibn Masud. So when noble Companion Abdullah ibn Masud (radhiallahu anhu) makes a statement about the Quran, (such as above where 'idle talk' in the Quran includes singing).. this is not just an opinion of a regular Musilm.. this was ibn Masud clarifying that which needed clarifying, and to go against ibn Masud's interpretation would require a differing statement from another Companion.

Further, and perhaps more importantly, to say that singing and chanting is an acceptable form of worship, requires evidence from either (1), (2) or (3) above, for it to be halaal. If someone can present an authentic hadith showing that the Prophet ﷺ and his companions engaged in singing songs to praise Allaah, then you'd find this a very different discussion.

Allahul Musta'aan.


tl;dr The religion is taken from the 3 sources above, in that order, each linking to the next. So to take from one only (e.g. from the Quran only) without the others is haram. Abdullah ibn Mas'ud was a Companion/Sahabah (in (3)(i) above), and a Scholar himself among them, so if he says 'idle talk' in the Quran refers to singing also, then that is what it is in Islaam. It's not simply an interpretation by some regular frank or joe (or "Zaid or Ubayd" they say in the Arabic)

But, yes. Blue, good discourse. /nosarc


[1] "Sunnah meaning what he said, did, and permitted (i.e. allowed or disallowed).

[2] Say (O Muhammad ﷺ to mankind): "If you (really) love Allâh then follow me (i.e. accept Islâmic Monotheism, follow the Qur’ân and the Sunnah), Allâh will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." https://quran.com/3/31

EDIT: for completeness, added 'hadeeth' to (2) the Sunnah, and references for Imaam Bukhari and Imaam Muslim.
Last edited by FrankChag on January 16th, 2022, 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby nismotrinidappa » January 15th, 2022, 8:49 pm

Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 16th, 2022, 11:35 am

nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?

Don't know what you're referring to, and not finding anything meaningful with google.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Bad Dog » January 16th, 2022, 12:01 pm

nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?


Nismo are you referring to this:
https://backtojerusalem.com/one-world-r ... next-year/

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby nismotrinidappa » January 16th, 2022, 5:57 pm

That's is one link yes. Also there are many smaller sections worldwide. What are your thoughts?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby FrankChag » January 16th, 2022, 11:13 pm

nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?

Bad Dog wrote:
nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?

Nismo are you referring to this:
https://backtojerusalem.com/one-world-r ... next-year/

nismotrinidappa wrote:That's is one link yes. Also there are many smaller sections worldwide. What are your thoughts?


So that's NOT a one-world religion anything. It's just UAE project to house a Masjid, a Church and a Synagogue in three different structures on the same compound. On the face of it, seems like an interesting idea from the UAE King; and, it's sanctioned by the Pope and probably a leading Rabbi. IMHO, not seeing the problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_Family_House
https://www.mediaoffice.abudhabi/en/art ... struction/

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby timelapse » January 17th, 2022, 8:24 am

FrankChag wrote:
nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?

Bad Dog wrote:
nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?

Nismo are you referring to this:
https://backtojerusalem.com/one-world-r ... next-year/

nismotrinidappa wrote:That's is one link yes. Also there are many smaller sections worldwide. What are your thoughts?


So that's NOT a one-world religion anything. It's just UAE project to house a Masjid, a Church and a Synagogue in three different structures on the same compound. On the face of it, seems like an interesting idea from the UAE King; and, it's sanctioned by the Pope and probably a leading Rabbi. IMHO, not seeing the problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_Family_House
https://www.mediaoffice.abudhabi/en/art ... struction/
My prediction is that they will kill each other in the first year.Muslims in the east don't play well with neighbouring religions.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby York » January 17th, 2022, 10:51 am

bluefete wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
bluefete wrote:If this helps though:

AFAIK, there is NO evidence in the Quran or Sunnah for music, chanting or singing as a form of worship or praise, and the one who says so should bring his evidence for it.


I like to go directly to the source so I am asking you:

Where EXACTLY in the Qu'ran does Allah forbid singing? I am sure you would not be able to point it out.

If it is not explicitly stated in the Qu'ran then anything someone says to the contrary is haram.

It seems to me that you are a follower of one type of Islam. Just as there are many sects in Christianity and Hinduism, so there are in Islam. These sects follow different aspects of their religion.

The sect you follow considers singing to be haram.

Other sects do not follow that especially if the Qu'ran does not forbid it.


"And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing, etc.) to mislead (men) from the Path of Allâh without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allâh, or the Verses of the Qur’ân) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire)." https://quran.com/31/6

And, commenting on the above Ayah (Qur’anic verse), Abdullah Ibn Mas`ud (radhiAllahu anhu) swore: “By Allah! The reference in this Ayah is to singing.”


It's easy for someone to write this off as an "interpretation"-thing (especially since there is so much singing and chanting in "sufism", which btw should never be taken as Islam by default).. until you come to understand the following:

- Rulings are taken both from the Quran, AND the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah, salallahu alayhiwassallam (by the Command of Allah in the Quran here: https://quran.com/3/31); the interpretation of these comes from the three generations of Companions (disciples) of the Prophet (for example: see Sahih al-Bukhari 6429).

- Idle speech above, incorporates singing, not out of whim, but because this was the statement of Abdullah ibn Masud (radhiallahu anhu), who was a Scholar-Companion (disciple) of the Prophet, salallahu alaihi was sallam; [size=150]we take our rulings and interpretation of the Quran and Sunnah from the Companions because they were with the Messenger day in and day out. That alone should suffice any Muslim in any sect
. (alas of course, it doesn't)

- There is no evidence in the Sunnah of using singing for worship, remembrance or anything like that, and as mentioned, for worship, everything is haram unless there is some evidence for it. In Islam, we don't just invent ways of worship like some religions (e.g. jogging for Jesus...). Worship has to have a textual basis or else it is rejected {{He who innovates something in this matter of ours [Islam] that is not of it will have it rejected [by Allah [Bukhari & Muslim]}} So if someone is claiming we can use music, singing, chanting as a form of remembrance and worship, let him bring his proof from the Quran and the Sunnah. The proof is on the claimant.

- reciting the Quran in a melodious voice does not mean you can take verses of the Quran and make songs with them, that cause euphoria, etc, like the sufis for example. This is forbidden; Lot's of examples here: https://www.sayingsofthesalaf.net/recit ... ke-a-song/

In case you haven't realized, I've reached the limit of my knowledge regarding this topic. I only tried to say what the scholars have said regarding it. For me, these are sufficient evidence for singing and music, etc., to be haram. If you need more convincing out of fear of Allah, I suggest the book I mentioned above, which goes into the topic in some serious depth, including ringtones, etc. If you're unconvinced, and you wish to continue with what you're doing (listening to music, singing, playing musical instruments), you should fear Allah, and ask Him sincerely for guidance.

And Allaah knows best.
[/size]


I do appreciate your explanations. However, you clearly stated that the belief that singing is haram is an "INTERPRETATION" by the Companions of the Prophet.

Did Prophet Muhammed ban singing? That is a moot point if the Qu'ran does not state so explicitly.

Interpretations of scripture by any religion can be a dangerous thing.

That is why, for example, we have people in Christianity who take one line from the Bible and make their own religion from it. Then, when you do read the entire passage, it has totally different meaning.

Good discussion though. Thanks.
1. There is overwhelming evidence from the sayings of the Companions of the Prophet concerning that "laghw" idle talks IS music and singing. They lived with the prophet in the established Islamic State and knew when and the reason / application for each verse of the Quran revealed.

2. Poetry is the thing of the day but singing was not! Men did not stand in front of ppl beautifying his voice with the objective of nowadays songs / music. It was for the content of the poetry itself. Like extempo without musical instruments!

3. Muslims like Inshan Ishmael do wrong by using music and don't represent the ideals of the religion as mentioned above. There is no difference of opinion by the scholars that INSTRUMENTS are impermissible ie sinful to use.

4. People were modest and music / singing was not an issue at that time. However, the evidences for rulings derived for passing judgment later on is there. That's the purpose of the scholars.

5. Singing and music is common in churches today but is there any evidence that Jesus or his immediate disciples used and encouraged them in preaching and worship? I don't think so. Bluefete?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Bad Dog » January 17th, 2022, 11:18 am

timelapse wrote:
FrankChag wrote:
nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?

Bad Dog wrote:
nismotrinidappa wrote:Frank chag are you aware of the Pope and Imam one world chrislam religion? Are you partaking? What are your thoughts?

Nismo are you referring to this:
https://backtojerusalem.com/one-world-r ... next-year/

nismotrinidappa wrote:That's is one link yes. Also there are many smaller sections worldwide. What are your thoughts?


So that's NOT a one-world religion anything. It's just UAE project to house a Masjid, a Church and a Synagogue in three different structures on the same compound. On the face of it, seems like an interesting idea from the UAE King; and, it's sanctioned by the Pope and probably a leading Rabbi. IMHO, not seeing the problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_Family_House
https://www.mediaoffice.abudhabi/en/art ... struction/
My prediction is that they will kill each other in the first year.Muslims in the east don't play well with neighbouring religions.

The Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are of the same monotheistic faiths. However, the Jews the chosen people want to be superior to the others. The designation of being chosen is not to be superior but a responsibility. The Jews denied Christianity who in turn denied and demonized Islam. If you look at these religions from a historical perspective you will see that it is a continuum from the Old Testament, New Testament and The Quran. The Quran teaches us that Allah sent the Scriptures, Gospel and the Quran.
The Quran Surah 3: 67 Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian...
Quran Surah5:46...We sent Jesus the son of Mary...
Quran Surah 5: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein.
The Quran Surah 2:62: Those who believe in the Quran and those who follow the Jewish scriptures and the Christians and Sabians, -and who believe in Allah and the Last Day and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord. on them shall be no fear, nor grieve.
Most people who argues about religion are clueless and also, those who profess to have exclusive rights to God,

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