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Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Health

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Habit7
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Re: Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Hea

Postby Habit7 » January 30th, 2013, 10:12 am

~*Pãñdorą*~ wrote:Me eh even mention God and I don't think Habit7 did either.
All I'm saying is.. If you know that you get burns from touching the hot stove, then stop touching it!! If you know sex is gonna get you a disease somewhere abouts, be smart and abstain for a bit.

^^^leave him, his reasoning mirrors the current trend which allows the thinking: if I condomize, if I use birth control, if I vaccinate, etc. I can magically avoid the negative effects of a promiscuous lifestyle. However our sexuality problems just keep get worst and I wonder why?
Last edited by Habit7 on January 30th, 2013, 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Hea

Postby netsket » January 30th, 2013, 10:14 am

how effective have the previous abstinence and HIV programmes been?

spend more money? or do something about it?

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Re: Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Hea

Postby nemisis » January 30th, 2013, 11:05 am

netsket wrote:how effective have the previous abstinence and HIV programmes been?

spend more money? or do something about it?

its actually been pretty damn effective, i don't know anyone who abstained from sex suddenly developing aids...

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Re: Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Hea

Postby netsket » January 30th, 2013, 11:12 am

nemisis wrote:
netsket wrote:how effective have the previous abstinence and HIV programmes been?

spend more money? or do something about it?

its actually been pretty damn effective, i don't know anyone who abstained from sex suddenly developing aids...


:|

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Re: Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Hea

Postby RBphoto » January 30th, 2013, 12:46 pm

~*Pãñdorą*~ wrote:
crossdrilled wrote:
Habit7 wrote:
crossdrilled wrote:
~*Pãñdorą*~ wrote:I think we should throw the money behind encouraging and giving young people out there incentives to abstain seeing as HPV is a sexually transmitted virus.

Prevention is better than cure!!


Who are you to legislate how people should live their lives? You were a vigin when you got married?

Yeah with your logic lets not get rid of illegal guns, lets give out bulletproof vests. Because rather than grow up my daughter with sexual responsibility, at 12 years old I am going to throw my arms up in the air and say "she is going to do it anyway!"



Ok, let's say your daughter lives a pristine virgin life till marriage, then gets infected from her loving husband who never horn her but got it unknowingly from another relationship, then she gets cancer?

Where's ya god now beyotch?

Allyuh kinda men does bawl when they dawtha bruk out. All I have to say if my baby girl (if I ever have one) get preggers and a man want to tell me *who is the father* all I have to say is "I know who the mother is". There is a time for innocence and there is a time to let them go to be adults.

Moral issues aside, the purpouse of the shot is to prevent death from a common bug. I applaude the efforts to vaccinate them.

And what is the chances of geting shot from an illegal gun in Trinidad? the chaces of getting cancer from HPV is about 80%. I think this is even more important than getting rid of illegal guns if we use that metric.


Me eh even mention God and I don't think Habit7 did either.
All I'm saying is.. If you know that you get burns from touching the hot stove, then stop touching it!! If you know sex is gonna get you a disease somewhere abouts, be smart and abstain for a bit.



And what I am asking is did you touch the stove or did you touch multiple stoves and out of those times did you get burnt?..... Go back to your kitchen and touch a stove.... in the litteral sense.

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Re: Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Hea

Postby netsket » January 30th, 2013, 12:51 pm

Is a female still a virgin if front burner unlit but the back burner bun out? Just asking.

:?:

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Re: Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Hea

Postby nemisis » January 30th, 2013, 2:26 pm

netsket wrote:Is a female still a virgin if front burner unlit but the back burner bun out? Just asking.

:?:

she is a virgin to u unless u was d man packing d fudge

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Re: Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Hea

Postby Hook » January 30th, 2013, 3:55 pm

Habit7 wrote:CD all I am saying, giving my daughter a vaccine for a sexually transmitted at the age of 12 could be interpreted as tasset approval of sexual behaviour. When she is ready to begin sexual activity we will talk about all the precautions and morals she needs to bring to the table. But at 12 years old, HELL NO.


With all the other STDs floating around, parents need to educate their children to deter them from irresponsible sexual practices and instill in them the knowledge that the vaccine is not permission to mash up d place.

If the issue is that of age, bear in mind that children are being bombarded with adult issues in the news and entertainment media all the time. Everything from sex to early mortality due to disease, crime, murder and AIDs, to gender issues and same sex couples, all issues that young ones who can barely read are being faced with. Even in the classrooms, unsupervised children are engaging in sex acts!

I fully understand your position and the fact that the age of innocence had been reduced dramatically in the last decade, but as rightfully said, she could run from it her whole life and very well get it from the man she marries. We can't fight this one, so adapt. Adapt and inform.

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Re: Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Hea

Postby Habit7 » January 30th, 2013, 4:11 pm

Point taken, but I am not an internet PhD claiming that vaccines cause autism. All I am saying is that I am not going to be fatalistic and say "she going and do it anyway..." and give her a vaccine, 2 condoms and a coupon for a guesthouse of her choice. When she is ready for sexual behaviour we will talk and all the options would be put on the table. But at 12? Hell no.

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Re: Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Hea

Postby Hook » January 30th, 2013, 4:35 pm

:lol: thas one hell of a birthday shopping list for a pre-teen

But yeh, the stance that "dey gonna do it anyway" is very defeatist. I'd hope they'd have a little more faith in their own parenting skills.

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Re: Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Hea

Postby toyota2nr » January 31st, 2013, 11:39 am

netsket wrote:The fact remains that children are having sex. When you want another opportunity like this programme to happen? When pnm in power? :lol: :lol: :lol:

They dont think outside the box (as u can see from habit7's comment) they dont do programmes like this because they dont care about kids or the people and they only care about stealing while in power


Lol you starting to sound like me there man....... :oops:

But seriously how many drugs are recalled by the FDA every year? How many are the subjects of class action lawsuits? All that rigourous testing and clinical trials that maj.tom speaks of are not independent and are subject to bias.

Anyone familiar with Dr. Robert Gallo? He was charged with scientific misconduct for misrepresenting the results of his original research.

I agree with the parents calling for the vaccinations to be stopped. We need more independent reviews of Gardasil.

:evilbat:

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Re: Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Hea

Postby toyota2nr » January 31st, 2013, 11:43 am

Habit7 wrote:Point taken, but I am not an internet PhD claiming that vaccines cause autism. All I am saying is that I am not going to be fatalistic and say "she going and do it anyway..." and give her a vaccine, 2 condoms and a coupon for a guesthouse of her choice. When she is ready for sexual behaviour we will talk and all the options would be put on the table. But at 12? Hell no.


If you not gonna give her can I have that guesthouse coupon please kind sir........ :twisted:

:evilbat:

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Re: Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Hea

Postby Habit7 » January 31st, 2013, 12:20 pm

^^^you want me to adopt you as my daughter, sure :D

ask your MP to do the surgery though, make sure you all agree on the depth first.

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Re: Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Hea

Postby toyota2nr » January 31st, 2013, 12:22 pm

No dread I just want the coupon..........keep the rest.

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Re: Gardasil & the 20,000 intended "Vaccines" by Min. of Hea

Postby bluefete » February 8th, 2013, 7:06 am

Should Boys Be Given the HPV Vaccine? The Science Is Weaker than the Marketing
By Jeanne Lenzer | November 14, 2011 3:20 pm


Merck’s promotion of Gardasil, its vaccine against the human papilloma virus (HPV), has a complicated history. First there was the exuberant claim about its reputedly great effectiveness in preventing cervical cancer. Now comes the recommendation last month from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, that all 11- and 12-year-old boys should be given the vaccine.

Of Science and Truthiness

The vaccine for boys is important, say advocates, because reducing HPV in boys will reduce transmission to girls and women—only 32 percent of whom have been getting the shots to date. Giving the shots to boys, they say, promotes gender equity. As a bonus, the vaccine may protect against oral and anal cancers in men who have sex with men.

Since a key part of the rationale for vaccinating boys is to protect girls, it’s worth a moment to examine the claims about reducing cervical cancer deaths. Merck won approval for Gardasil from the Food and Drug Administration in June 2006. On May 10, 2007, Merck published the results of a study in the New England Journal of Medicine that claimed an astounding 98 percent efficacy in preventing changes in the cervix used as a marker for cervical cancer.

But that statistic begs closer examination.

To achieve the 98 percent efficacy claim, Merck excluded from analysis anyone who “violated” the study protocol. In other words, all real-world problems that arose were excluded from analysis. Problems like girls who refused to take a second or third shot after they became sick and (correctly or incorrectly) blamed the vaccine. Or doctors who incorrectly gave the vaccine to someone who shouldn’t have received it. While it’s worth knowing how effective the vaccine is when it’s used exactly as it should be, for a public-health decision, it’s not as relevant as its real-world effectiveness.

To Merck’s credit, they reported that when all women in the study were analyzed, the vaccine’s efficacy dropped to 44 percent. Still, 44 percent might be considered a smashing success when you’re talking about saving lives. Except for one thing: the numbers get worse. The 44 percent benefit included only those women with the two specific cancer-causing HPV strains found in the vaccine. But when the researchers looked at negative cervical changes from any causes, they found that changes occurred in unvaccinated women at a rate of 1.5 events per 100 person-years, while vaccinated women had 1.3 events—dropping the benefit to 17 percent.

Moreover, most of the cervical changes tracked by the researchers weren’t even indicative of cervical cancer in the first place. Most were innocent cellular abnormalities that either disappear entirely on their own, or never progress to cancer. In fact, when they looked more closely at advanced cervical changes most likely to progress to cancer versus more innocent changes that go away spontaneously, it was the innocent changes that accounted for the decline.

Whether Gardasil will reduce cervical cancer deaths in real-world conditions has simply never been answered. It might—but that would take a long-term study, and one that should be done before it’s widely promoted.

A Cure in Need of a Disease

Now, come the boys. If cervical cancer prevention and gender equity don’t have you jumping out of your seat to grab every preteen boy to get a shot, what about the claim that Gardasil might prevent anal and oral cancers men may get from having sex with other men?

Merck says that in males, the vaccine is 89 percent effective against genital warts and 75 percent effective against anal cancer. On closer inspection, some of the numbers don’t just deflate, they evaporate. First off, let’s define the problem: The annual number of deaths from anal-rectal cancer among all men in the U.S. is 300. And how did Merck get its happy statistics on efficacy? Once again, they reported an idealized benefit by excluding from analysis 1,250 study violators out of 4,055 total test subjects. When the real-world analysis was conducted, the numbers plunged—right down to plum nothing. After evaluating tissue changes in male genitalia that were suggestive of a cancer precursor, Merck reported that vaccine efficacy against such lesions “was not observed.”

Given this, is it worth the risk of exposing millions of youth to the as yet uncertain harms of the vaccine? The CDC states that in rare instances, some vaccines may trigger the potentially fatal and paralyzing condition Guillain-Barré, and Nizar Souayah, MD, of the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey in Newark, says he and his colleagues found “clear evidence from our database of an increased incidence of Guillain-Barré syndrome in the first six weeks, especially the first two weeks, after [HPV] vaccination.” Guillain-Barré is very rare, even among people who are HPV vaccinated, but the problem is emblematic of the downsides of subjecting millions of people to any medical treatment.

Mo’ Money, Mo’ Money, Mo’ Money


So how did the HPV vaccine become a multi-billion-dollar winner for Merck? Well you might not be surprised to hear that the company happily lavished money on doctors, professional societies, and over 100 legislators. Of course, there is no tie between the recipients of this largesse and their promotion of the vaccine, say beneficiaries like presidential candidate and current Texas governor Rick Perry. In 2007, Perry signed an executive decree mandating that all girls in Texas receive the vaccine. The $28,500 Perry received was minor compared to his other connection to Merck: Perry’s chief of staff, Mike Toomey, became a lobbyist for Merck, championing the HPV vaccine. Once in that position, announced his plans to raise over $50 million for Perry’s presidential campaign.

In any case, the marketing certainly doesn’t seem to have hurt the adoption of Gardasil, which has been administered to millions of girls around the country. Caught up in the joy, some 41 state legislatures have initiated bills to promote or mandate the shots for all girls. With the CDC’s new recommendation for boys, one can imagine that promotion or mandates for them might come next.

Fortunately, some researchers don’t believe the hype. Dr. Diane Harper, one of the lead researchers in the development of the HPV vaccine, recently told the Kansas City Star, the vaccine for boys is “pie in the sky…We’re short of health care dollars. Why should we spend it on that?”

Indeed. There are better ways to spend the billions of dollars currently being spent on HPV vaccines. First, we already have a pretty terrific way to prevent most cervical cancer deaths, and it’s called the Pap smear. Since poor women are less likely to get Pap smears and more likely to die from cervical cancer, we could start by extending medical services to them. Second, many oral cancers are caused by smoking, and men and women who smoke are more likely to die of oral and cervical cancer, so we could invest in smoking cessation efforts.

As Angela Raffle, a specialist in cervical cancer screening, told the New York Times‘ Elisabeth Rosenthal, “Oh, dear. If we give it to boys, then all pretense of scientific worth and cost analysis goes out the window.”

Unfortunately, the hope that we would undertake low-tech, high-yield public health efforts might be the real pie in the sky thinking.



Full disclosure: I am not anti-vaccine. I’m happy to sport that little scar on my thigh from the smallpox vaccine I received as a kid. Smallpox is a scourge I can live without. Nor do I believe that every claim of calamity occurring after a vaccine is due to the vaccine. What I question is the promotion of vaccines, drugs and medical devices that aren’t backed up by solid clinical evidence and shown to be cost-effective in the real world.



Jeanne Lenzer is a medical investigative journalist and frequent contributor to the British medical journal BMJ. Her work has been published in The Atlantic, The New York Times Magazine, Newsweek Japan, and many other outlets.


http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/ ... marketing/

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