Would we have been better off with PNM?

[Country_Bookie]

I cant agree with this. People did not vote for PP nor against the PNM. What was seen was a demonstration against Manning. He thought that he was the father of the nation and treated himself as such, even when everyone was laughing at that suggestion. He was surrounded by a bunch of 'yes' folk who were not telling him to take his head out his anus. As a result, HE lost touch with reality and the people and as a result the election was lost.

Now there is a different leader of the party who has recognized that things has to be done differently so a PR firm was hired to rebrand the party and the leader's image. That is a good start I think so in my opinion, things are different now and hopefully would be different WHEN the PNM wins at the next general elections.

I appreciate your opinion, but I have to disagree with your assessment.

Honestly I laugh at the assertion by PNMites that "PNM loss de election becuase of Manning". The PNM has a General Council (GC) which elects the Political Leader(PL) and to which the PL is accountable. No reasonable person will believe that they didn't know what was going on between 2001-2010. If they thought he was that much of a liability, why didn't they remove him? Perhaps they chose to look the other way because they were receiving political favours? Who knows. But the fact remains they failed in their responsibility to reign in a PL who had run amok. That makes them just as culpable for their failure at the polls in my book.

IMO Mr. Manning was made the sacrificial lamb so that at least one element of the PNM's leadership (the GC) could maintain some semblance of credibility. For if the council members also had to resign, that would have destroyed the party.

What would make this party better is if they got rid of the old delegate system which currently sustains its power structure. Dr. Rowley, on the face of it, appeared to have recognized the defects in the current schema and tried to move the party toward the more democratic 'one man one vote system'. But three years after their defeat, there's still no actionable plan. Some party insiders claim that the process is being stymied by the aforementioned GC whose members see their positions being undermined by this proposal.

In the end, all this talk of re-branding is really the PNM spin doctors way of throwing sugar on sh!t and hoping that the electorate swallows it whole. Because as of this writing nothing substantive about the the party has changed.

And If they win the next election it'll be due to the crap the PP is doing. It definitely will not be because they have anything better to offer.


P.S. Like you, I do not blindly support any party. I simply call things as I see them.

Yuh see, I would agree with what you said. I think that if you looked at what I wrote about who to blame, I said that Manning is to blame; I also put some blame on the GC as I mentioned that he was surrounded by a team of yes men and women. So I think that we see things in a similar light expect that you think that Manning is less culpable that I think. In any case, if the PNM is to show that they are ready to really govern this country, they have to demonstrate that it would not be the same old khaki pants as of past PNM administrations. The days of nepotism and curry favoring should be long gone: standing up for what is right across the board is what is needed but sadly, according to the Great Silver Fox, politics has its own morality

Agreed, they need to communicate what is their vision and plan for the country if they get elected. It can't be the same build tall buildings to give the illusion of development while using CEPEP to placate the urban areas. That's what led to the spiralling crime rate.

[rfari]

I am trying to listen to the PM (CNMG using a Nokia 1100 to broadcast the audio), and I see she is using the same tactic of some in this thread: demonising a future Rowley lead govt. It is quite reminiscent of a former PM seeing the winds of change, demonising a future Kamla lead govt.

Unc getting desperate. As it stands they running the risk of being a perpetual opposition once rowley upholds his political ethics. If its one thing about trinbagoians, you could do what in government; u see theefing and playing ppl for fool? We don't take that lightly. We don't forget that. Kpb will learn that first hand

lolwhut??

we as a ppl doh care abt who teefing

Yes we do. It irks us when there is unfair allocation of resources.

[shogun]

How many more terms must the people of Trini give PNM to get things right?

How many has the UNC had now?

How many times has PNM lead us to the brink of being a bankrupt nation only to saved by NAR, UNC & PP?

Talking out of your ass.

Under PNM people get more lazy ,rude ,hostile, angry and uneasy .

Well, you're 4 outta that 5 aren't you? ...and the PNM aren't even in office. What's your excuse?

And the ONLY reason i can't attest to your laziness, is the fact that i don't know you personally. But you don't seem that productive from where i sit.

PNM has always dropped the standard of living when they are in power.

In the mid 00's the PNM oversaw economic growths of up to 12%+

And during the crash of 2008, managed to keep us fairly insulated from fallout, while most of the rest of the world burnt.

You're just talking out of your ass, as usual.

What has this administration done? ..call a SOE to further strangle an already weak economy. Talk about fiscal common sense.

Look at the list of PNM, Rowley, Hinds, marlee and cox. U want these people to run your affairs?

Agreed, the PNM roster, could use improvement......

Suruj Rambachan, Tim Gopeesingh, Anil Roberts, Ganga Singh, Chandresh Sharma.

Maybe you prefer those?

Difference between you and me rader, is i'm not stuck to any particular party. I'd give anyone a chance, if i thought they had the country's well being, as the goal.

I voted to give this administration a chance (C.O.P. in particular) .... this administration turned out to be an abject failure.

[RIPEBREDFRUIT]

peeneem has absolutely NO one in their party that can be a competent prime minister, hell they cant even function as an opposition.

[Habit7]

Difference between you and me rader, is i'm not stuck to any particular party. I'd give anyone a chance, if i thought they had the country's well being, as the goal.

THIS

peeneem has absolutely NO one in their party that can be a competent prime minister, hell they cant even function as an opposition.

I dont think you have displayed the competency to vote, far less assess anyone as PM.

[RIPEBREDFRUIT]

i dont need to assess anyone- just look and you will see everything and if you cant see it then youre blinded by racism and stupidity............then again i wouldnt be surprised

[kurpal_v2]

peeneem has absolutely NO one in their party that can be a competent prime minister, hell they cant even function as an opposition.

I agree




[/slits wrist]

[Habit7]

I was trying to make you aware of yourself, especially after comments like this

if you all were really serious about National security, put me as the minister , and i assure you, the first order of business would be a Huge cargo ship heading out of Trinidad waters FILLED with beethamites, laventillians and sea-lotions bound for " Destination Unknown".

And if you you think I am "blinded by racism and stupidity" yet you judge people based on their geographical location, it saddens me that you are part of the electorate.

[RIPEBREDFRUIT]

I was trying to make you aware of yourself, especially after comments like this

if you all were really serious about National security, put me as the minister , and i assure you, the first order of business would be a Huge cargo ship heading out of Trinidad waters FILLED with beethamites, laventillians and sea-lotions bound for " Destination Unknown".

And if you you think I am "blinded by racism and stupidity" yet you judge people based on their geographical location, it saddens me that you are part of the electorate.

Yes YES, im definitely part of the reason this country did not fall back into a Dictatorship and im damn proud of it!

[firstchoicett]

PNM was a waste being there, look at how much crime went up and food prices doubled. Look at the Brain Lara stadium billions of dollars spent thing still like a ghost town.

The PP they went into power with so many promising in there manifesto but all what going on with them is fighting for power and not working together . The PM going on trips like she going out of style, I bet if NASA have a trip going to the moon she go to. Look at what take place with JW and she still left the country to go to Canada.

Trinidad and Tobago need better people who's honest , hard working and willing to go the extra mile. I don't know when that will happen yes . Maybe in Generation Next.

[Rooki3]

Trinidad and Tobago need better people who's honest , hard working and willing to go the extra mile.

jack warner was all of those things, well, besides honest

[ilove3]

I cant agree with this. People did not vote for PP nor against the PNM. What was seen was a demonstration against Manning. He thought that he was the father of the nation and treated himself as such, even when everyone was laughing at that suggestion. He was surrounded by a bunch of 'yes' folk who were not telling him to take his head out his anus. As a result, HE lost touch with reality and the people and as a result the election was lost.

Now there is a different leader of the party who has recognized that things has to be done differently so a PR firm was hired to rebrand the party and the leader's image. That is a good start I think so in my opinion, things are different now and hopefully would be different WHEN the PNM wins at the next general elections.

I appreciate your opinion, but I have to disagree with your assessment.

Honestly I laugh at the assertion by PNMites that "PNM loss de election becuase of Manning". The PNM has a General Council (GC) which elects the Political Leader(PL) and to which the PL is accountable. No reasonable person will believe that they didn't know what was going on between 2001-2010. If they thought he was that much of a liability, why didn't they remove him? Perhaps they chose to look the other way because they were receiving political favours? Who knows. But the fact remains they failed in their responsibility to reign in a PL who had run amok. That makes them just as culpable for their failure at the polls in my book.

IMO Mr. Manning was made the sacrificial lamb so that at least one element of the PNM's leadership (the GC) could maintain some semblance of credibility. For if the council members also had to resign, that would have destroyed the party.

What would make this party better is if they got rid of the old delegate system which currently sustains its power structure. Dr. Rowley, on the face of it, appeared to have recognized the defects in the current schema and tried to move the party toward the more democratic 'one man one vote system'. But three years after their defeat, there's still no actionable plan. Some party insiders claim that the process is being stymied by the aforementioned GC whose members see their positions being undermined by this proposal.

In the end, all this talk of re-branding is really the PNM spin doctors way of throwing sugar on sh!t and hoping that the electorate swallows it whole. Because as of this writing nothing substantive about the the party has changed.

And If they win the next election it'll be due to the crap the PP is doing. It definitely will not be because they have anything better to offer.


P.S. Like you, I do not blindly support any party. I simply call things as I see them.

Yuh see, I would agree with what you said. I think that if you looked at what I wrote about who to blame, I said that Manning is to blame; I also put some blame on the GC as I mentioned that he was surrounded by a team of yes men and women. So I think that we see things in a similar light expect that you think that Manning is less culpable that I think. In any case, if the PNM is to show that they are ready to really govern this country, they have to demonstrate that it would not be the same old khaki pants as of past PNM administrations. The days of nepotism and curry favoring should be long gone: standing up for what is right across the board is what is needed but sadly, according to the Great Silver Fox, politics has its own morality

Agreed, they need to communicate what is their vision by h they get elected. It can't be the same build tall buildings to give the illusion of development while using CEPEP to placate the urban areas. That's what led to the spiralling crime rate.

CEPEP by itself is a crime. Most employed are single mothers desperate for a means out yet still the governments playing politics with their livelihood. Sad but true

[nemisis]

I cant agree with this. People did not vote for PP nor against the PNM. What was seen was a demonstration against Manning. He thought that he was the father of the nation and treated himself as such, even when everyone was laughing at that suggestion. He was surrounded by a bunch of 'yes' folk who were not telling him to take his head out his anus. As a result, HE lost touch with reality and the people and as a result the election was lost.

Now there is a different leader of the party who has recognized that things has to be done differently so a PR firm was hired to rebrand the party and the leader's image. That is a good start I think so in my opinion, things are different now and hopefully would be different WHEN the PNM wins at the next general elections.

I appreciate your opinion, but I have to disagree with your assessment.

Honestly I laugh at the assertion by PNMites that "PNM loss de election becuase of Manning". The PNM has a General Council (GC) which elects the Political Leader(PL) and to which the PL is accountable. No reasonable person will believe that they didn't know what was going on between 2001-2010. If they thought he was that much of a liability, why didn't they remove him? Perhaps they chose to look the other way because they were receiving political favours? Who knows. But the fact remains they failed in their responsibility to reign in a PL who had run amok. That makes them just as culpable for their failure at the polls in my book.

IMO Mr. Manning was made the sacrificial lamb so that at least one element of the PNM's leadership (the GC) could maintain some semblance of credibility. For if the council members also had to resign, that would have destroyed the party.

What would make this party better is if they got rid of the old delegate system which currently sustains its power structure. Dr. Rowley, on the face of it, appeared to have recognized the defects in the current schema and tried to move the party toward the more democratic 'one man one vote system'. But three years after their defeat, there's still no actionable plan. Some party insiders claim that the process is being stymied by the aforementioned GC whose members see their positions being undermined by this proposal.

In the end, all this talk of re-branding is really the PNM spin doctors way of throwing sugar on sh!t and hoping that the electorate swallows it whole. Because as of this writing nothing substantive about the the party has changed.

And If they win the next election it'll be due to the crap the PP is doing. It definitely will not be because they have anything better to offer.


P.S. Like you, I do not blindly support any party. I simply call things as I see them.

Yuh see, I would agree with what you said. I think that if you looked at what I wrote about who to blame, I said that Manning is to blame; I also put some blame on the GC as I mentioned that he was surrounded by a team of yes men and women. So I think that we see things in a similar light expect that you think that Manning is less culpable that I think. In any case, if the PNM is to show that they are ready to really govern this country, they have to demonstrate that it would not be the same old khaki pants as of past PNM administrations. The days of nepotism and curry favoring should be long gone: standing up for what is right across the board is what is needed but sadly, according to the Great Silver Fox, politics has its own morality

Agreed, they need to communicate what is their vision by h they get elected. It can't be the same build tall buildings to give the illusion of development while using CEPEP to placate the urban areas. That's what led to the spiralling crime rate.

CEPEP by itself is a crime. Most employed are single mothers desperate for a means out yet still the governments playing politics with their livelihood. Sad but true

the crime was the foreman racket

[kaylex]

CPEP still being used to mobilize the masses... Poor,educated and dependent ... same as food card, disability allowance etc...
both of the political giants use these mechanisms to get votes.. never about empowerment...

[prav316]

all political parties in this country are out to fill their own pockets......anyone who says different is either stupid , disillusioned or they collecting some of the money too. If ppl put back PNM in power and expect to see change you all really stupid.........time for new blood to step up.

[prav316]

edit: double post...

[kaylex]

No new blood stepping up palos... we dont like new in this country.. COP had a great chance.. but now all they are is another version of UNC...

MSJ seems like the only one who had some spine to stand up.. whether they will remain relevant remains to be seen...

[prav316]

Sadly true, no new blood.....and I loath the old parties......so much corruption

[Mr. Red Sleeper]

Since all ah allyuh so brite, why not form a party ?
Even if its a ten yr work plan?

[rocknrolla]

well id like to. figured by the next 5 years id be sure and start putting together my cabinet. no friend ting. all my ministers have to work like dog to better this country. but then.. maybe all they have to do is NOT THIEF and things will be a whole lot better.

[Mr. Red Sleeper]

well id like to. figured by the next 5 years id be sure and start putting together my cabinet. no friend ting. all my ministers have to work like dog to better this country. but then.. maybe all they have to do is NOT THIEF and things will be a whole lot better.

We see why you wont make it

[firstchoicett]

Trinidad and Tobago need better people who's honest , hard working and willing to go the extra mile.

jack warner was all of those things, well, besides honest

We all know that .

[Dizzy28]

In Trinidad & Tobago the non "Till a Dead" voters are left with a choice of the lesser of two evils. Discerning such is very difficult though.

[kaylex]

You could start a new party.. but you need financing ... and who give you financing to fool up the population clearly expects a ROI ( Return on Investment)

Wolf in Sheep Clothing..

[firstchoicett]

I say don't vote yes

[kaylex]

I say don't vote yes

I saw you said something about .. the PM going to Canada and our affairs in T&T,...
She was invited.... and arrangements made long time.. these sort of arrangements almost impossible to pullout of just so... Protocol dictates same and its good for International Relations>>>>>

[De Dragon]

I almost,(almost eh) wish some ah dese people actually get into power that ollour rating up. When allyuh hadda go outside and graze fuh someting tuh eat, mebbe then ollour go see. Kams not a strong forceful leader, Rowley overforceful and unstatesmanlike. Equally distressing are the heirs apparent who are just clones of the maximum leaders

[rocknrolla]

well id like to. figured by the next 5 years id be sure and start putting together my cabinet. no friend ting. all my ministers have to work like dog to better this country. but then.. maybe all they have to do is NOT THIEF and things will be a whole lot better.

We see why you wont make it

i see y u see it i wont make it. because maybe u along with many others believe in brown nosing to get ur way in politics. noone said u cant compromise. but one should not compromise ethics and morality when it is undisputedly in the right. Government has a job to do. whether they like it or not they are public servants. they SERVE the public. it is supposed to be a selfless position!

[nareshseep]

Lest we forget, somebody make a list of achievements for the PP nah,

Ah see this circulating on facebook, ah must say ah did forget bout most ah these things, not sure if all is correct.

DON'T FORGET WHAT ROWLEY CONDONED UNTIL HE WAS FIRED

1. Nepotism, Patrick Manning making his wife Hazel Manning a Minister

2. Planting Missiles and Cocaine in MP Sadiq Baksh Water Tank

3. Granting Brian Manning a Gun License in 24 hours and disregarding all rules and procedures

4. Giving Brian Manning $9 million for a basketball competition ……(Has it start yet?)

5. The scandal and embarrassment of the $2 million legacy flag

6. $50 million dollars Boat that never Float

7. $45 million secret skullarship fund

8. John Rahael as Minister of Agriculture lease a house and parcel of land belonging to Caroni 1975 Ltd. To his sister

9. John Rahael as Minister of Health give his sons the contract to provide drugs for the CDAP programme

10. Penelope Beckles father got CEPEP contracts while she was an MP

11. Barry Sinanan law firm get government briefs while he was speaker of the house

12. Patrick Manning rented a house from Lenny Saith brother for $38,000 per month while the Palace was building

13. Jerry Narace Company got the contract to provide insurance for T&TEC

14. Kerwyn Garcia, husband of Christine Kangaloo, gets $530,000.brief from government

15. PNM Chairman Franklyn Khan wife get a $60 million contract days before the 2010 election

16. $5 million worth of materials from the Tobago Hospital went to develop Dr. Keith Rowley wife private project

17. Robinson-Regis husband $50,000 per month job at WASA

18. Tobago Hospital going from $136 million to over $800 million in overrun

19. Tarouba Stadium going from $275 million to over $1 billion in overrun

20. Patrick Manning call to the Marabella Police Station demanding his driver be released

21. Cocaine found in diplomatic pouch

22. Patrick Manning $240 million Palace with $3 million drapes

23. Calder Hart$368 million contract to his brother-in-law

24. $2 billion summit of no return

25. Camille Robinson-Regis credit card scandal

26. Maco Manning SIA spying on law abiding citizen

27. $650 million incomplete Legal Affairs Tower

28. $700 million incomplete Chancery Lane Complex

29. $500 million incomplete South Academy for the Performing Arts (SAPA)

30. $576Million Rapid Rail feasibility study scandal

31. Dustbin Terrorist a.k.a Mr. Big still at large

32. Bombardier jet joyride

33. A condo for the Profitess/Prophetess at UTT

34. $30 million mystery Guanapo church

35. $30 Million Bamboo Networks Scandal

36. EMBD Chairman Uthara Rao using $400,000 of taxpayers’ money to pay for sexual harassment claims

37. Manning/Bakr Land Deal for Election support

38. Manning giving CJ Sat Sharma an ultimatum to “resign or else”

39. Former PNM Tresurer Andre Monteil Scandalous $110 million HMB Shares

40. T&TEC Street Lighting Scandal

41. $1.8 billion overrun on Waterfront Project

42. John Rahael connected to the Monos Island drug bust

43. Karen Nunez-Tesheira conflict of interest when she withdrew her monies from CLICO

44. Udecott Calder Hart scandal

45. Patrick Manning bolting into a Radio Station demanding 2 announcers be fired

46. Petrotrin $12 billion world GTL, Scandal

47. Making former murder accused David "Buffy" Millard coordinator of a $250 million NHA refurbishing project

48. Appointed Mark Guerra as national adviser to the URP

49. $50 Million Blimp that always Limp

50. $500,000 Skullarship grant to Louis Lee Sing daughter-in-law, Laurel Lezama-Lee Sing

51. Radio License for Louis Lee Sing in 24 hours

52. $55,000 bribery to the former occupants of the Guanapo Church Land

53. Cleaver Heights $10 million attempted fraud

54. Patrick Manning calling Tobago Police Station and ordering 4 Bajan fishermen be released

55. Discrimination against Feroza Ramjohn, Ganga Persad Kissoon and Harridath Mahara

56. Discrimination against the Maha Saba Radio License

57. Rushed to bailout their financier CLICO with billions of taxpayers money

58. “Female” Minister calling the Point Fortin Police Station demanding her son be released after he was caught in a drug bust with 2 Venezuelans

59. Calder Hart as NIB Chairman buying back the $110 million HMB Shares for $130 Million giving former PNM Tresurer Andre Monteil a $20 Million profit

60. $126 Million Broadgate Place Tower Scandal

61. Chaguanas Corporation Administrative Complex—$10 million over-budget and 24 months' delay;

62. Government campus, Legal Affairs Towers—$300 million over-budget

63. Ministry of Education Towers—$300 million over budget

64. NAPA (PoS)—$234 million over-budget

65. NAPA (San Fernando)—$238 million over-budget

66. Beverly Hills Housing—$106 million over-budget

67. Three questionable payments to Bouygues days before the Election, payments were made on May 14 ($3.6 million), May 14 ($10 million) and May 19 ($5 million)

68. Sunway Construction $300 million quarry contract Scandal

69. $100 million to fix shoddy work done EMBD with Water pipes and Electricity together

70. $150 Million to repair poorly constructed houses under Dr. Rowley watch

71. The closure of Caroni 1975 Ltd. And Destruction of Thousands of Lives who depended on Caroni to feed their family

72. Auditor-Generals Report stated $1.6 billion spent on CEPEP between 2002-2007 with lack of accountability

73. How was Landate reclassified from agricultural lands to lands for residential use and where the money came from to build that development project?

74. Tobago Financial Complex $81 million cost overrun

75. Tobago Library $80 million cost overrun

76. Patrick Manning use of a licence plate bearing the nation's Coat of Arms on the Prime Minister car.

77. DAWI Services Ltd ( Dane Wilson ) awarded $4 Million to construct Bagatelle Community Center. NO CENTER BUILT!

78. DAWI Services Ltd ( Dane Wilson ) awarded $250,000.00 Cocorite project. Wall COLLAPSE

A Careful check will show almost $25 Billion in Scandal under the PNM 2002-2010

[rocknrolla]

You could start a new party.. but you need financing ... and who give you financing to fool up the population clearly expects a ROI ( Return on Investment)

Wolf in Sheep Clothing..

if i were to run a campaign, i wont rely on corporate financing. any corporate financing will have to acknowledge the goal of bettering the country, and that they cant get special treatment like they have for so long when there are so much ppl in need. if as a result i get no corporate sponsors, the choice will be left up to the ppl. the intentions will be pure. the integrity will be absolute.

vote with ur brain not ur pocket. that said.. corporate sponsors could get some form of returns if and when available. but not when there are more important areas to divert resources for progress of the nation as a whole. considering all the work that needs to be done. i can see myself very honestly letting them know there is a chance they may not get any returns during my term. a donation is a donation.