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Armoured vehicles necessary?

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby Type Rated » September 11th, 2014, 7:42 pm

To add to what stock said.. The question is are these relevant? The threats which this vehicle claims to repel... High powered rifles, grenades, rpg's, missiles.

How many of these items have been found in Trinidad already?
Not because the haven't been used doesn't mean we shouldn't prepare. This is a pro active measure so people who already have these weapons will think twice about using them.

5 years ago how prevalent was the use of high powered assault rifles? Today how prevalent is it? Imagine what they'll be using in 5 years time?

Remember the Police and TTDF are Trinbagonians and they MUST be afforded as much safety as possible! They have families to go home to as well. Those of us who work in Oil and Gas how much safety is afforded by our employers?

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby Spitfir3 » September 11th, 2014, 7:48 pm

nah trinidadians rather wait for the disaster to happen then cry out why we didn't do xyz or have xyz

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby 1UZFE » September 11th, 2014, 10:04 pm

Waits for trini selfies with these vehicles.

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby Who need enemy » September 12th, 2014, 4:52 am

Them nasty badmind head #stuckinhell

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby Soul Collector » September 12th, 2014, 5:15 am

Type Rated wrote:To add to what stock said.. The question is are these relevant? The threats which this vehicle claims to repel... High powered rifles, grenades, rpg's, missiles.

How many of these items have been found in Trinidad already?
Not because the haven't been used doesn't mean we shouldn't prepare. This is a pro active measure so people who already have these weapons will think twice about using them.

5 years ago how prevalent was the use of high powered assault rifles? Today how prevalent is it? Imagine what they'll be using in 5 years time?

Remember the Police and TTDF are Trinbagonians and they MUST be afforded as much safety as possible! They have families to go home to as well. Those of us who work in Oil and Gas how much safety is afforded by our employers?

Proactive? How so? We know fully well what some of these guys have here. Even RS said so himself too rfari. That we have about 2 50 cal sniper rifles that RS was sure one of us may have passed in close proximity of at some point. Criminals here are smart. They will find a way around those vehicles, providing they don't already have the means to do so.

I look at this as a reactive approach by the govt. They know what's causing these problems - the white collar crimes which allow us to have places we ridicule such as Laventille for example. By attacking those issues, only then will they make a dent in crime, the REAL crime. Armored vehicles? Sure, distract the population even more. Make them feel we doing this in their best interests!

If they had our best interests at heart, they would tackle the real crime and look for a better solution to lead to the betterment of our country. In that deal for the 63 million just to acquire the vehicles, I wonder how much ppl pockets got fatter? See what I mean? False sense of security they are trying to give. They try to portray certain areas such as Laventile for example as being the problem, when in fact, who really has that place the way it is? Not the local and foreign drug cartels and our own govt ministers and large investors? All the drugs and guns coming in, all these under privileged ppl. Anyone even care WHY the place is how it is? WHO is responsible for it being that way and being portrayed that way? Yes, there is a shitload of scary stuff in Laventille, but again whose allowing it to happen?

If you grow up in that environment well what are you going to expect? The same image we portray of them in Laventille is what seems to be adopted by some. It's the way the human mind works. Plus I think the media and govt love to portray Laventille (just one example) as a cause for national concern and project onto us that we are living in fear, and they govt is just trying to protect us for example with the acquisition of these vehicles.

Now yes, we have the really idiotic ppl who send a bad msg for the entire group but I'm saying, we could avoid ALL this. Provide the basic fundamental things we need as human beings to the people of your country. Some ppl don't even have WATER! But we spending 63m on these vehicles. If the people of the country felt as one, as equals, with the same opportunities as us in "privilege", this could be a better place.

Mind you, I do agree we need these vehicles for the safety of the protective services out there risking their lives, no doubt. All I'm saying is, we should not have even had to waste more money doing this had we been doing things properly all along.

This is why I say it's more reactive than proactive as some ppl think. The govt knows where sheit goes down. They know who owns what and where its located. They won't act because too many people's interests would be interfered with, including their own.

It's my take on the situation. It's always nice to see different opinions on one matter, it's exciting to me!

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby Who need enemy » September 12th, 2014, 5:39 am

Like thas d most excitement yuh is geh

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby Les Bain » September 12th, 2014, 7:02 am

Question now is where the papers got the quantity of 52 from.

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby zoom rader » September 12th, 2014, 7:03 am

Les Bain wrote:Question now is where the papers got the quantity of 52 from.


PNM

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby Les Bain » September 12th, 2014, 7:15 am

Oh. That clears things up then.

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby UML » September 12th, 2014, 7:35 am

9/11 13th anniversary
Islamic links keep T&T under watch



Terrorism proves complex regional situation
Gail Alexander
Published:
Thursday, September 11, 2014

After the failed 1990 coup attempt in T&T and the attack on the US on September 11, 2001—the 13th anniversary of which is today—the Caribbean’s situation where the growth of Islamic fundamentalism and threat of terrorism is concerned has remained as high a subject of scrutiny as elsewhere in the world.

The arguments on the religious aspects of the Islamic issue have ranged far and wide for years, even centuries, argue some leaders of T&T’s Middle East-descended society, and the western presence over decades has further fuelled the debate. And some say the action by some international quarters has continued the fragmentation of the Middle Eastern landscape, with all its repercussions on the West.

A recent T&T security report on the issue has said, for instance: “The profound chasm between the Sunnis and the Shi’ites, or even the clash between the moderates and fundamentalists, both need exploration.” The report concluded that the struggle in the Islamic world has implications for the rest of the globe.

Any assessment on perception of growing threats to T&T and Caribbean would have to consider, among other factors, geopolitics and economic interests of key global players, T&T’s energy economy and religio-directions in the region, as well as situations in Latin America and neighbouring islands. T&T, Guyana and Suriname have the largest Muslim populations. Guyana and Suriname have been members of the Organisation of Islamic Conference since the 1990s.

Saudi-born Adnan El Shukrijumah, whose father is Guyanese, remains on the US’s 2014 Counterterrorism Calendar for Al Qaeda involvement and activities. The US had sought him since 2002 after he passed through T&T and Canada between 2001 and 2006 after visits to Panama and Honduras in 2001 and 2004. Known to hold T&T, US and Canadian passports, he entered T&T on a Guyanese passport for a “six-day stay with friends,” and stayed in central Trinidad, where he had ties to an Islamic institute.

His Guyanese father, Gulshair, brought the family to live in T&T in the mid-1980s, when he taught in mosques. Family members now live in South Florida. A US$5 million reward is still out for El Shukrijumah, described in 2010 as Al Qaeda’s operations head. Questions on the issue to T&T’s US Embassy didn’t receive a reply.

Al Qaeda, now under pressure to reclaim its status following the emergence of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (Isis), also known as Isil (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant), disclosed last week it would open units in India. T&T’s record in various reports have also cited the history of fundamentalism here with the failed 1990 coup attempt and extradition to the US of T&T and Guyanese nationals on terrorism charges, as well as arrest of other T&T nationals in the US on gun and bombing plot charges.

T&T’s profile has also been marked since 2002 by increasing gangs, aided by US deportee statistics, guns and drug turf wars. Government’s Life Sport programme, halted by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar after revelations of misuse by criminal elements, has now been added to the profile.

The foiled attack by a group in New York on the JFK Airport’s fuel system increased concerns about the growing presence of radical Islamic groups in the southern Caribbean, since three of the four charged came from Guyana and the other from Trinidad, and were Muslim converts showing the susceptibility of some to the influence of radical Islamic strains.

Eye on Caribbean
Intelligence reports note the regional presence of certain high profile Middle East fundamentalist groups in various South American territories, including Margarita, and their involvement in various aspects of the underground “economy”, organised trans-national crime. At least one report states some have been known to travel to Trinidad under false documents.

Experts confirm that any Islamic fundamentalism and/or terrorist activity in the region will more than likely have connections to what may be occurring in the Middle East. They also note that if culprits attempt to use the Caribbean for a hideaway or to obtain financial support through illicit activities, this would usually occur near followers of the religion.

Muslims are estimated to comprise about eight or nine per cent of T&T’s population, with healthy memberships in various organisations and a majority of moderates, though an increasing fundamentalist strip of fringe elements in recent decades. A report on the situation added that T&T is the only Caribbean country where radical Islam has been in the open since the 1980s.

The Jamaat al-Muslimeen was described as being formed in the mid-1980s. The assessment noted other small groups in T&T involving converts, including named figures described as extremists. Concern was expressed about recruitment among the poor and travel of some between T&T and certain Middle Eastern locations, as well as the courting in recent years of various Afro-Caribbean sectors by leaders of Middle East terrorist groups.

Various agencies have credited T&T’s law enforcement fraternity with keeping terrorism at bay thus far. Also, an advanced passenger information system and maritime/airspace cooperation agreements have facilitated capture of several people on international watch lists attempting to enter the region.

Recommendations have been emphasised, including the need to strengthen the level of migration and border security concerns in several areas like the south western peninsula, plus increased monitoring and surveillance systems, particularly concerning arrivals at ports of entry.

Deepening of co-ordination, agreements and resources among regional states and international partners on the issue has also been underscored, as well as attention on understanding the presence of various Middle East radical groups in and around Latin America and their ability to enter states, including T&T, via false documents.

T&T National Security officials said emphasis is also being placed on strengthening legislation, counter-terrorism capacity building and monitoring the transport of goods, as well as intelligence sharing.

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby UML » September 12th, 2014, 8:11 am

Soul Collector wrote:
Type Rated wrote:To add to what stock said.. The question is are these relevant? The threats which this vehicle claims to repel... High powered rifles, grenades, rpg's, missiles.

How many of these items have been found in Trinidad already?
Not because the haven't been used doesn't mean we shouldn't prepare. This is a pro active measure so people who already have these weapons will think twice about using them.

5 years ago how prevalent was the use of high powered assault rifles? Today how prevalent is it? Imagine what they'll be using in 5 years time?

Remember the Police and TTDF are Trinbagonians and they MUST be afforded as much safety as possible! They have families to go home to as well. Those of us who work in Oil and Gas how much safety is afforded by our employers?

Proactive? How so? We know fully well what some of these guys have here. Even RS said so himself too rfari. That we have about 2 50 cal sniper rifles that RS was sure one of us may have passed in close proximity of at some point. Criminals here are smart. They will find a way around those vehicles, providing they don't already have the means to do so.

I look at this as a reactive approach by the govt. They know what's causing these problems - the white collar crimes which allow us to have places we ridicule such as Laventille for example. By attacking those issues, only then will they make a dent in crime, the REAL crime. Armored vehicles? Sure, distract the population even more. Make them feel we doing this in their best interests!

If they had our best interests at heart, they would tackle the real crime and look for a better solution to lead to the betterment of our country. In that deal for the 63 million just to acquire the vehicles, I wonder how much ppl pockets got fatter? See what I mean? False sense of security they are trying to give. They try to portray certain areas such as Laventile for example as being the problem, when in fact, who really has that place the way it is? Not the local and foreign drug cartels and our own govt ministers and large investors? All the drugs and guns coming in, all these under privileged ppl. Anyone even care WHY the place is how it is? WHO is responsible for it being that way and being portrayed that way? Yes, there is a shitload of scary stuff in Laventille, but again whose allowing it to happen?

If you grow up in that environment well what are you going to expect? The same image we portray of them in Laventille is what seems to be adopted by some. It's the way the human mind works. Plus I think the media and govt love to portray Laventille (just one example) as a cause for national concern and project onto us that we are living in fear, and they govt is just trying to protect us for example with the acquisition of these vehicles.

Now yes, we have the really idiotic ppl who send a bad msg for the entire group but I'm saying, we could avoid ALL this. Provide the basic fundamental things we need as human beings to the people of your country. Some ppl don't even have WATER! But we spending 63m on these vehicles. If the people of the country felt as one, as equals, with the same opportunities as us in "privilege", this could be a better place.

Mind you, I do agree we need these vehicles for the safety of the protective services out there risking their lives, no doubt. All I'm saying is, we should not have even had to waste more money doing this had we been doing things properly all along.

This is why I say it's more reactive than proactive as some ppl think. The govt knows where sheit goes down. They know who owns what and where its located. They won't act because too many people's interests would be interfered with, including their own.

It's my take on the situation. It's always nice to see different opinions on one matter, it's exciting to me!


$63 million for 6 vehicles? :shock: :|

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby SR » September 12th, 2014, 8:29 am

Fair price for what it is....... it aint no toyota prado

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby bluefete » September 12th, 2014, 8:31 am

UML wrote:$63 million for 6 vehicles? :shock: :|


Man hadda eat a food.

Wha' wrong wid yuh to arsk dat question??

Ent a man geh $36 million for zilch!

Yuh shud be happy yuh getting something in return fuh yuh $63 million!!!

How much Jack Warner charge to pull out de firetruck again? $10 million?

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby UML » September 12th, 2014, 8:37 am

SR wrote:Fair price for what it is....... it aint no toyota prado


i guess...i forget a million is nun nowadays :|

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby Habit7 » September 12th, 2014, 10:00 am

This gov't is eat the bread the devil knead because when Opposition they raise a great uproar when the gov't was acquiring new security assets. Now in the same position they find themselves defending these expenses when other fundamental items remain absent. That being said:

The release added that the ministry “will also be acquiring 20 armoured cars (SUVs) type vehicles. These armoured cars will be assigned to the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service (Special Branch) and the NOC, and will be used solely for escort duties for the security detail of His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago, and other Government officials, as well as for providing security for any visiting Head of State or dignitaries.

“These vehicles will carry the same appearance as any car or SUV one may see on the nation’s roads, with the exception that these vehicles have been modified to provide a level of security for the officers of the TTPS.”

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Gov ... 42281.html

VIPs getting 20 armoured cars/SUVs now, how did they ever live without it up until now???

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby kjaglal76v2 » September 12th, 2014, 10:09 am

well done PPG, these would fulfill a purpose.

unlike MV Su

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby rfari » September 12th, 2014, 10:13 am

Personal protection huh

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby Habit7 » September 12th, 2014, 10:15 am

MV Su fulfilling its purpose as a ferry in the French Caribbean after the govt sold it for a whistle.

The public are the ones who need to be protected from the govt who hits and run, drive intoxicated, have their drivers speed for no reason and crash while they not where seatbelts. In the end we get shafted with the bill.

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby eliteauto » September 12th, 2014, 10:21 am

zoom rader wrote:
Les Bain wrote:Question now is where the papers got the quantity of 52 from.


PNM


I had a mind Larry Howai was a PNM, considering HE said the request made by the MONS was for 52 vehicles and he told them he could not allocate that much funding, hence the cut back. But hey you know better right?

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby kjaglal76v2 » September 12th, 2014, 10:40 am

Habit7 wrote:MV Su fulfilling its purpose as a ferry in the French Caribbean after the govt sold it for a whistle.

The public are the ones who need to be protected from the govt who hits and run, drive intoxicated, have their drivers speed for no reason and crash while they not where seatbelts. In the end we get shafted with the bill.


why did PNM purchase a leaking ship & have it park up dey doin nothing!!

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby UML » September 12th, 2014, 10:52 am

Habit7 wrote:MV Su fulfilling its purpose as a ferry in the French Caribbean after the govt sold it for a whistle.

The public are the ones who need to be protected from the govt who hits and run, drive intoxicated, have their drivers speed for no reason and crash while they not where seatbelts. In the end we get shafted with the bill.


source?

no one wanted to buy it!

...as scrap metal it was worth one million dollars.

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby Coppershot » September 12th, 2014, 11:44 am

Jamaica had armored vehicles back in 06/07 when i visited.
According to wiki, they have 12 of these
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushmaster_Protected_Mobility_Vehicle
Image

previously they had these Cadillac Gage V150
Image

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby bluefete » September 12th, 2014, 12:18 pm

kjaglal76v2 wrote:well done PPG, these would fulfill a purpose.

unlike MV Su


That vessel wasn't named after a PNM politician's wife????

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby Habit7 » September 12th, 2014, 12:32 pm

UML wrote:
Habit7 wrote:MV Su fulfilling its purpose as a ferry in the French Caribbean after the govt sold it for a whistle.

The public are the ones who need to be protected from the govt who hits and run, drive intoxicated, have their drivers speed for no reason and crash while they not where seatbelts. In the end we get shafted with the bill.


source?

no one wanted to buy it!

...as scrap metal it was worth one million dollars.
yeah my bad, all the rest in Guadeloupe, MV SU was sold for scrap.

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby UML » September 12th, 2014, 12:34 pm

UML wrote:
Soul Collector wrote:
Type Rated wrote:To add to what stock said.. The question is are these relevant? The threats which this vehicle claims to repel... High powered rifles, grenades, rpg's, missiles.

How many of these items have been found in Trinidad already?
Not because the haven't been used doesn't mean we shouldn't prepare. This is a pro active measure so people who already have these weapons will think twice about using them.

5 years ago how prevalent was the use of high powered assault rifles? Today how prevalent is it? Imagine what they'll be using in 5 years time?

Remember the Police and TTDF are Trinbagonians and they MUST be afforded as much safety as possible! They have families to go home to as well. Those of us who work in Oil and Gas how much safety is afforded by our employers?

Proactive? How so? We know fully well what some of these guys have here. Even RS said so himself too rfari. That we have about 2 50 cal sniper rifles that RS was sure one of us may have passed in close proximity of at some point. Criminals here are smart. They will find a way around those vehicles, providing they don't already have the means to do so.

I look at this as a reactive approach by the govt. They know what's causing these problems - the white collar crimes which allow us to have places we ridicule such as Laventille for example. By attacking those issues, only then will they make a dent in crime, the REAL crime. Armored vehicles? Sure, distract the population even more. Make them feel we doing this in their best interests!

If they had our best interests at heart, they would tackle the real crime and look for a better solution to lead to the betterment of our country. In that deal for the 63 million just to acquire the vehicles, I wonder how much ppl pockets got fatter? See what I mean? False sense of security they are trying to give. They try to portray certain areas such as Laventile for example as being the problem, when in fact, who really has that place the way it is? Not the local and foreign drug cartels and our own govt ministers and large investors? All the drugs and guns coming in, all these under privileged ppl. Anyone even care WHY the place is how it is? WHO is responsible for it being that way and being portrayed that way? Yes, there is a shitload of scary stuff in Laventille, but again whose allowing it to happen?

If you grow up in that environment well what are you going to expect? The same image we portray of them in Laventille is what seems to be adopted by some. It's the way the human mind works. Plus I think the media and govt love to portray Laventille (just one example) as a cause for national concern and project onto us that we are living in fear, and they govt is just trying to protect us for example with the acquisition of these vehicles.

Now yes, we have the really idiotic ppl who send a bad msg for the entire group but I'm saying, we could avoid ALL this. Provide the basic fundamental things we need as human beings to the people of your country. Some ppl don't even have WATER! But we spending 63m on these vehicles. If the people of the country felt as one, as equals, with the same opportunities as us in "privilege", this could be a better place.

Mind you, I do agree we need these vehicles for the safety of the protective services out there risking their lives, no doubt. All I'm saying is, we should not have even had to waste more money doing this had we been doing things properly all along.

This is why I say it's more reactive than proactive as some ppl think. The govt knows where sheit goes down. They know who owns what and where its located. They won't act because too many people's interests would be interfered with, including their own.

It's my take on the situation. It's always nice to see different opinions on one matter, it's exciting to me!


$63 million for 6 vehicles? :shock: :|



just as i thought...misinformation easy to come by and spread to the blind eh?!! :roll:
No supplier has yet been selected, he said, and costs have not been quantified, though one vehicle is estimated to cost around $1 million.
http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2014-09- ... ive-troops
:|




Habit7 wrote:
UML wrote:
Habit7 wrote:MV Su fulfilling its purpose as a ferry in the French Caribbean after the govt sold it for a whistle.

The public are the ones who need to be protected from the govt who hits and run, drive intoxicated, have their drivers speed for no reason and crash while they not where seatbelts. In the end we get shafted with the bill.


source?

no one wanted to buy it!

...as scrap metal it was worth one million dollars.
yeah my bad, all the rest in Guadeloupe, MV SU was sold for scrap.

as i was saying...misinformation easy to come by and spread to the blind eh?!! :roll:

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby Soul Collector » September 12th, 2014, 4:52 pm

The post that contained it came from one of those local news groups on facebook or some article in the papers. I was just going with that. If you even read my post, you should realize that is the least of our worries.

As for the amount, I read in the express today down to Kams was like WTF 50 of dem thing? We never order dat! She said they had 6 for the regiment and then those SUV's.

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby UML » September 12th, 2014, 9:27 pm

Coppershot wrote:Image


Just imagine snipers in the hills of laventille trying to shoot at the police with this. Police go have dem scampering lol

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby rollingstock » September 12th, 2014, 10:31 pm

From what I've gathered so far the APC's will be given to the TTDF and the armoured SUV's to Special Branch to conduct high profile escorts, so salt for Police officers on the frontline.

Leh me go pour cement in some x-trail doors yes.

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby j.o.e » September 12th, 2014, 10:35 pm

rollingstock wrote:From what I've gathered so far the APC's will be given to the TTDF and the armoured SUV's to Special Branch to conduct high profile escorts, so salt for Police officers on the frontline.

Leh me go pour cement in some x-trail doors yes.


High profile escorts? Yuh mean like d Sacha girl? *kidding, kidding*

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Re: Armoured vehicles necessary?

Postby DVSTT » September 13th, 2014, 5:10 am

rollingstock wrote:From what I've gathered so far the APC's will be given to the TTDF and the armoured SUV's to Special Branch to conduct high profile escorts, so salt for Police officers on the frontline.

Leh me go pour cement in some x-trail doors yes.


Army tends to be able to keep their vehicles in working order.

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