The Religion Discussion

[Habit7]

But what makes everything else besides what you believe "a cult"?
Faith?

A Christian cult is a group that denies one or more of the fundamental truths of Christianity, while still claiming to be Christian. The two most common teachings of cults are that Jesus was not God and that salvation is not by faith alone.

http://www.gotquestions.org/cult-definition.html

In Christian theology when we refer to the cults, it most often refers to the Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons and other sects that especially distort the biblical Christ.

It doesn't mean that they have tin foil on their head and they are waiting for the mothership to return.


Btw, kudos on that feature too, as if I already didn't find I was posting too much on tuner

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

But what makes everything else besides what you believe "a cult"?
Faith?

A Christian cult is a group that denies one or more of the fundamental truths of Christianity, while still claiming to be Christian. The two most common teachings of cults are that Jesus was not God and that salvation is not by faith alone.

http://www.gotquestions.org/cult-definition.html

In Christian theology when we refer to the cults, it most often refers to the Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons and other sects that especially distort the biblical Christ.

It doesn't mean that they have tin foil on their head and they are waiting for the mothership to return.

I was hoping for the latter

but don't Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons and other sects think that you are the ones distorting the biblical Christ?

Btw, kudos on that feature too, as if I already didn't find I was posting too much on tuner

that's the idea! to get you posting more!

[JStaples]

Lolll

[Habit7]

but don't Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons and other sects think that you are the ones distorting the biblical Christ?

Well in order for them to start believing that they have to believe the 1800 years of Christianity that preceded them was wrong until they came, out of NY.

Then to overcome their teachings contradicting the Bible, it helps to either create some new scripture or create a bible translation that no credible Greek or Hebrew scholar can endorse.

Nevertheless, I am committed to the biblical Christ.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

but don't Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons and other sects think that you are the ones distorting the biblical Christ?

Well in order for them to start believing that they have to believe the 1800 years of Christianity that preceded them was wrong until they came, out of NY.

Then to overcome their teachings contradicting the Bible, it helps to either create some new scripture or create a bible translation that no credible Greek or Hebrew scholar can endorse.

Nevertheless, I am committed to the biblical Christ.

what of Catholics?

[Habit7]

https://carm.org/comparison-grid

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

https://carm.org/comparison-grid

So Catholics are cult followers

what percentage of the word is actually Christian then?

[Habit7]

https://carm.org/comparison-grid

So Catholics are cult followers

what percentage of the word is actually Christian then?

Do I think Catholicism is a cult? No.

https://carm.org/comparison-grid

[Slartibartfast]

https://carm.org/comparison-grid

Just jumping back in to say this actually clears up a lot of misconceptions I had about Christians Vs. Catholics.

So just for further clarification (and reiterating Duane's questions)
Are you saying that all Catholics are cult followers?

The World Factbook gives the population as 7,095,217,980 (July 2013 est.) and the distribution of religions as Christian 31.50% (of which Roman Catholic 16.85%, Protestant 6.15%, Orthodox 3.96%, Anglican 1.26%)

Also what percentage of the world's population do Christians (by your definition) represent?

Btw feel free to correct any inaccuracies I made.

[Habit7]

Honestly I am not sure. Only God knows who are true His. He tells how to know who are truly His, but I am not sure if these quantifiers used that as a standard.

All we have to rely on in a general sense is what these people profess to be.

[Slartibartfast]

Understandable. I just find it really funny that, at best, Christians only form a minority of the world's population. They have also only existed for 1/100th of the time humans have walked the Earth (unless you believe in the 6000 year old thing).

I just don't see how an all powerful being could be so bad at getting His message across. Especially a message so important that it will affect how you spend your eternity.

Some numbers for comparison. Assume all non-Roman Catholics are Christian
(31.5%-16.85%) x 7,095,217,980 = 1.039 Billion people <--- we could both agree that's a huge over estimation. I am still catholic according to all of my records.

Psy got Gangam Style across to twice as many people as that just on youtube <---- also an over estimation because people watched it multiple times.

Anyway, my point is that if God did exist then he is pretty bad at being God if he created everything in existence and can be outdone by just one of his seven billion creations in this corner of the world.

[Habit7]

Firstly, God gives every man a general revelation of Himself (Romans 1:18-23). Theologians call this the sensus divinitatis, there is no indigenous atheist tribe. However while this is enough to know there is a God, it is not enough to know who is the God, for that why we need special revelation.

Secondly, God revealed Himself to many including one man Abraham that through his descendants, God will have a special relationship that will eventually bless the whole earth. By the end of the Old Testament we see that those descendants wanted nothing to do with God.

Nevertheless, God still made them a vessel to bless the whole earth in that out of them God came in the flesh as the Son to die for sins of whoever put their faith in Him. Consistent with their rejection of God, they killed the Son, He rose again to bless the whole in His atoning work, thus begins Christianity.

From 12 peasants in a tiny insignificant corner of the Roman Empire, their message subsumed the Roman Empire, Europe and North Africa, populated the New World and today has the largest amount of self professed adherents.

Is God bad at getting is message across? We have the sensus divinitatis, the Bible (best selling book of all time), Christmas (the most celebrate religious holiday of Christ coming into the world) and the gospel message which is found within arm's length in the West and missionaries carry to hostile countries with the risk of loss of life. I wouldn't say it is equal for everyone but I would agree with Romans 1:18-23 no one is "without excuse" for not knowing there is a God and that they are not in right standing with Him

Also Jesus and the apostles warned many times for professing Christians to self analyse because many who say the are Christians aren't.

Matthew 7:13-14 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’



All that to say, in the same you have heard the message and rejected it, so have others. Some reject it while still remaining religious, others do it as heathens.

[Slartibartfast]

I would go through and reply to all your points but it's Friday. Also, most of what I will reply will just dig up old discussions. The only thing I will point out is that a lot of the popularity you talk about has to do with marketing and commercialism. But I guess you can argue that is the vessel God is using to get his point across.

I agree with the point that many who say they are Christians aren't. Roman Catholicism is like Hotel California, so there are good Catholics and Bad Catholics but once a Catholic, always a Catholic according to them, even if you say you aren't, lol.

I would say at least all atheists are what they say they are, but I know there is an argument about semantics that we could get into over that so I won't push it.

Anyway, thanks for the reply. I'm jumping back out there.

[RBphoto]

I would go through and reply to all your points but it's Friday.

It is Sunday

[York]

Understandable. I just find it really funny that, at best, Christians only form a minority of the world's population. They have also only existed for 1/100th of the time humans have walked the Earth (unless you believe in the 6000 year old thing).

I just don't see how an all powerful being could be so bad at getting His message across. Especially a message so important that it will affect how you spend your eternity.

Some numbers for comparison. Assume all non-Roman Catholics are Christian
(31.5%-16.85%) x 7,095,217,980 = 1.039 Billion people <--- we could both agree that's a huge over estimation. I am still catholic according to all of my records.

Psy got Gangam Style across to twice as many people as that just on youtube <---- also an over estimation because people watched it multiple times.

Anyway, my point is that if God did exist then he is pretty bad at being God if he created everything in existence and can be outdone by just one of his seven billion creations in this corner of the world.

Catholic news from 9 years ago...from the Vatican.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/storie ... 801726.htm

[RBphoto]

9 years kinda makes an article outdated.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

that is comparing apples to oranges because Catholicism is a denomination of the religion of Christianity, whereas Islam is the entire religion inclusive of all Muslim denominations.

Adherent estimates
Size of Major Religious Groups, 2012
Christianity 31.5%
Muslim 23.2%
Unaffiliated 16.3%
Hindu 15.0%
Buddhist * 7.1%
Folk 5.9%
Other 0.8%
Jewish 0.2%
Pew Research Center, 2012

Adherents.com says "Sizes shown are approximate estimates, and are here mainly for the purpose of ordering the groups, not providing a definitive number".

Religion Adherents
Christianity 2.2 billion
Islam 1.8 billion
Secular[a]/Nonreligious[b]/Agnostic/Atheist ≤ 1.1 billion
Hinduism 1 billion
Chinese traditional religion[c] 394 million
Buddhism 376 million
Ethnic religions excluding some in separate categories 300 million
African traditional religions 100 million
Sikhism 23 million
Juche[d] 19 million
Spiritism 15 million
Judaism 14 million
Bahá'í 7 million
Jainism 4.2 million
Shinto 4 million
Cao Dai 4 million
Zoroastrianism 2.6 million
Tenrikyo 2 million
Neo-Paganism 1 million
Unitarian Universalism 800,000
Rastafarianism 600,000

[York]

Interesting but really could put a very good perspective on the group called "christianity". I mean in Trinidad there are so many small churches / non-Catholic denominations and gravitation of people away from Catholicism that we may think that globally there are very few catholics. However, the statistics reveal otherwise.

Christians as a whole are 35% more than muslims and since muslims = Catholics, then Non-catholics are only that 1/3rd more. One-third of muslims.

And since non-catholics may share the view with muslims that catholics are paganistic idol worshippers (the reason they left it?), then muslims are three times as strong as non-catholics (in number at least).

[York]

9 years kinda makes an article outdated.

No amount of time can change that we are slaves of God, either believing or disbelieving, obedient or disobedient, accepting or in denial.

[RBphoto]

9 years kinda makes an article outdated.

No amount of time can change that we are slaves of God, either believing or disbelieving, obedient or disobedient, accepting or in denial.

Some people need to be a slave to feel they have worth, even if that worth means they are someone else property.

[Dizzy28]

Interesting but really could put a very good perspective on the group called "christianity". I mean in Trinidad there are so many small churches / non-Catholic denominations and gravitation of people away from Catholicism that we may think that globally there are very few catholics. However, the statistics reveal otherwise.

Christians as a whole are 35% more than muslims and since muslims = Catholics, then Non-catholics are only that 1/3rd more. One-third of muslims.

And since non-catholics may share the view with muslims that catholics are paganistic idol worshippers (the reason they left it?), then muslims are three times as strong as non-catholics (in number at least).

[RBphoto]

Mohammed=Pope.

[The Paleontologist]

ISIS=Vatican?

[RBphoto]

Goat=Alter boy?

[ruffneck_12]

ayesha=mary?

[RBphoto]

ISIS=Vatican?

ISIS = Crusades.

*fixored.

Carib=Stag?

[The Paleontologist]

God=Satan?

[York]

ISIS=Vatican?

certainly not far-fetched...quite possible.

[RBphoto]

Earliest reference describes
Christ as 'magician'
Bowl dated between late 2nd century B.C. and the early 1st century A.D.


http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26972493/ns/t ... PmkLvnF_Tr


By
Jennifer Viegas
updated 10/1/2008 10:23:37 AM ET
A team of scientists led by renowned French marine archaeologist
Franck Goddio recently announced that they have found a bowl, dating
to between the late 2nd century B.C. and the early 1st century A.D., that
is engraved with what they believe could be the world's first known
reference to Christ.
If the word "Christ" refers to the Biblical Jesus Christ, as is speculated,
then the discovery may provide evidence that Christianity and paganism
at times intertwined in the ancient world.
The full engraving on the bowl reads, "DIA CHRSTOU O GOISTAIS,"
which has been interpreted by the excavation team to mean either, "by
Christ the magician" or, "the magician by Christ."
"It could very well be a reference to Jesus Christ, in that he was once the primary exponent of white magic," Goddio, co­founder of the Oxford
Center of Maritime Archaeology, said.
He and his colleagues found the object during an excavation of the underwater ruins of Alexandria's ancient great harbor. The Egyptian site also
includes the now submerged island of Antirhodos, where Cleopatra's palace may have been located.
Both Goddio and Egyptologist David Fabre, a member of the European Institute of Submarine Archaeology, think a "magus" could have practiced
fortune telling rituals using the bowl. The Book of Matthew refers to "wisemen," or Magi, believed to have been prevalent in the ancient world.
According to Fabre, the bowl is also very similar to one depicted in two early Egyptian earthenware statuettes that are thought to show a
soothsaying ritual.
"It has been known in Mesopotamia probably since the 3rd millennium B.C.," Fabre said. "The soothsayer interprets the forms taken by the oil
poured into a cup of water in an interpretation guided by manuals."
He added that the individual, or "medium," then goes into a hallucinatory trance when studying the oil in the cup.
"They therefore see the divinities, or supernatural beings appear that they call to answer their questions with regard to the future," he said.
The magus might then have used the engraving on the bowl to legitimize his supernatural powers by invoking the name of Christ, the scientists
theorize.
Weird science: Top unexplained mysteriesGoddio said, "It is very probable that in Alexandria they were aware of the existence of Jesus" and of his
associated legendary miracles, such as transforming water into wine, multiplying loaves of bread, conducting miraculous health cures, and the
story of the resurrection itself.
While not discounting the Jesus Christ interpretation, other researchers have offered different possible interpretations for the engraving, which was
made on the thin­walled ceramic bowl after it was fired, since slip was removed during the process.
Bert Smith, a professor of classical archaeology and art at Oxford University, suggests the engraving might be a dedication, or present, made by a
certain "Chrestos" belonging to a possible religious association called Ogoistais.
Klaus Hallof, director of the Institute of Greek inscriptions at the Berlin­Brandenburg Academy, added that if Smith's interpretation proves valid,
the word "Ogoistais" could then be connected to known religious groups that worshipped early Greek and Egyptian gods and goddesses, such as
Hermes, Athena and Isis.
Hallof additionally pointed out that historians working at around, or just after, the time of the bowl, such as Strabon and Pausanias, refer to the
god "Osogo" or "Ogoa," so a variation of this might be what's on the bowl. It is even possible that the bowl refers to both Jesus Christ and Osogo.
Earliest reference describes
Christ as 'magician'
Bowl dated between late 2nd century B.C. and the early 1st century A.D.
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Recommend 14kFabre concluded, "It should be remembered that in Alexandria, paganism, Judaism and Christianity never evolved in isolation. All of these forms of
religion (evolved) magical practices that seduced both the humble members of the population and the most well­off classes."
"It was in Alexandria where new religious constructions were made to propose solutions to the problem of man, of God's world," he added. "Cults
of Isis, mysteries of Mithra, and early Christianity bear witness to this."
The bowl is currently on public display in the exhibit "Egypt's Sunken Treasures" at the Matadero Cultural Center in Madrid, Spain, until
November 15.
© 2012 Discovery Channel

[Habit7]

Matthew 24:5 “For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.