***The Official Rapid Rail Thread***

[Fuzzle]

*Coming Soon*

"The Official Train Accident Thread"

[K74T]

Nah

[RASC]

Anti Rapid rail or Anti Light rail people can eat an L
Sub Sahara Africa is passing us by, in technology, innovation, ecommerce, banking and transportation solutions , reducing carbon footprint...all the while having less purchasing power, less reliable energy supplies, less stability in terms of governance and security...

Mean while we have these donkey cart supporting muthafuckers promoting more buss lanes, more congestion and less innovation. Y'all seriously need to leave this country...anyone who wants to go back in time can ship themselves off to some Amazonian back waters of Guyana. The rest can stay and HELP take us forward.

[Daran]

Rasc,calm yourself. I agree in theory with that. Africa will surpass us eventually quite easily too. The trini mindset is doom to fail us when the economy collapsed. I have friends from Africa many who I helped during my MSc. All of them are being funded by they respective governments for PhDs. These are rich countries, these were students from Senegal, Mozambique, Niger and Angola. And their 'primitive' African governments were fully funding them to study any topic they wanted. In Trinidad we over promote undergraduate study while under funding and appreciating post grad work.

These countries will go far. But I digress.

The rapid fail not by any measure will dig us out of our hole. That is argument many are putting forth.

Imo its too late to start this now, we simply cannot afford this mega project. Priorities man.not saying it wasn't needed. it was either that or the highways the PP built. We got what we got.

Right now it is a horrible idea to spend your way out of a recession especially if you have very little to fall back on.

[zoom rader]

Anti Rapid rail or Anti Light rail people can eat an L
Sub Sahara Africa is passing us by, in technology, innovation, ecommerce, banking and transportation solutions , reducing carbon footprint...all the while having less purchasing power, less reliable energy supplies, less stability in terms of governance and security...

Mean while we have these donkey cart supporting muthafuckers promoting more buss lanes, more congestion and less innovation. Y'all seriously need to leave this country...anyone who wants to go back in time can ship themselves off to some Amazonian back waters of Guyana. The rest can stay and HELP take us forward.

2/3 of this population is not anti rapid rail, it just that knowing the history of the PNM on projects they have every right to be anti RACKET RAIL.

[Habit7]

Sorry, Daran but nobody is buying your credentials you keep trying to throw out. I and many others have credentials that we don't need to wave around every time we give our option about something.

Your track record on tuner however is to come out speaking authoritatively on issues and be evidently wrong. Wrong to a point where it is obvious you are feigning knowledge about the subject. I am not saying this to dissuade you from posting but to let you know, it's not working.

[Bezman]

Hahahah

[mero]

Ways boy, nothing worse than getting Ethered on a Monday morning.

habit, that was real cold

[EmilioA]

At 34°C with 90% humidity, ppl will die every week.

And here I was thinking that since most of us black and brown that our bodies evolved to deal with tropical climates.

[sMASH]

The rapid rail only serves to get people to and from work faster. But while the gold standard country of development, the free and the brave America, has debt and deficit as a major talking point nearly every election season, we seek to throw every iota about their implications out the window with respect to the rail.

When oil prices remain low, and we lack the funds to improve the health facilities in this country, hope a trip on the rail, sans subsidised ticket fare, would make your kids feel better.

[pete]

Anti Rapid rail or Anti Light rail people can eat an L
Sub Sahara Africa is passing us by, in technology, innovation, ecommerce, banking and transportation solutions , reducing carbon footprint...all the while having less purchasing power, less reliable energy supplies, less stability in terms of governance and security...

Mean while we have these donkey cart supporting muthafuckers promoting more buss lanes, more congestion and less innovation. Y'all seriously need to leave this country...anyone who wants to go back in time can ship themselves off to some Amazonian back waters of Guyana. The rest can stay and HELP take us forward.

Was in Chicago last week and while I didn't use the train, seeing how much quicker it was as it went by in the middle of the highway and how little space it took up I could now say it looks easier to implement than I thought. Looked like it would be easier to build bridges for a rail to go over all the intersections than to build roads to do the same also.

Might be a good idea to build that first before starting overpasses along the highway so that when they do start to build them people will have an optional form of transport. In the interim I do think that we need more buses and if a rail is implemented the buses could then be used inside the city and to move around on the main roads.

[SR]

Toronto's mass transit system is a good example to compare with on efficiency. Maxis and taxis can be utilised on rural mass transportation. PH.....illegal and should be stopped. Implentation if any rapid rail system will take a minimum of 10 to 15 years in this economic and political environment plus standard of work ethics of locals

[Dizzy28]

Nah

If Duane bans the word "Nah" from use on this forum you really wouldn't have much purpose here!!!

[Daran]

change "Nah" to "i gay so"

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

But Daran is right...

Well regarding the part where the degree programs, we really do fund a lot of useless degrees in this place. I however am in 100% support of a Rail, I think we need it.
What does this country really need? is what we should be asking. I was suggesting a Computer Science industry, we could be developing video games among many other things. Not just software for local industry but to compete with the world.

Perhaps Dr Rowley would look into diversifying our economy away from oil and gas, how about we manufacture and export other stuff? surely there is a ton of other things we can do? Correct me if I am wrong though. Since we have our own oil and gas is it possible we could have manufacturing plants for vehicles? like how Brazil manufactures mercedes benz, volvo etc? Why can't we do this? is the issue being Trinidad is too small?

How about manufacture wind mills etc? are any of these things possible in Trinidad? why all the Euro automobile manufacturers always going to Brazil? why not us? Size? population too small down here?
I dunno but I am always amazed at how Brazil can pull off these kinds of investors.

What exactly does Brazil offer Mercedes Benz and Volvo etc that we cannot?

[RASC]

On another somewhat related note...
There are quite a few Trinbagonian EXPERTS (20+ years experience) in mass transit and rail in particular living, practising abroad who genuinely want to return to help in any which way to make this a success.

Whether it be downstream or upstream there is no shortage of talented citizenry the world over who want to come home and assist in this project.

Alot of you guys not seeing the added benefit of having technically savvy citizens return home and contribute to the KNOWLEDGE transfer. One of the biggest challenges any developing nation has is having its extremely talented nationals returning home to contribute ... Whether it be lecturing part time, being contracted to work on future driven projects, mentoring and of course business activities-this (along with others) is the type of project that will bring them home.

[The_Honourable]

On another somewhat related note...
There are quite a few Trinbagonian EXPERTS (20+ years experience) in mass transit and rail in particular living, practising abroad who genuinely want to return to help in any which way to make this a success.

Whether it be downstream or upstream there is no shortage of talented citizenry the world over who want to come home and assist in this project.

Alot of you guys not seeing the added benefit of having technically savvy citizens return home and contribute to the KNOWLEDGE transfer. One of the biggest challenges any developing nation has is having its extremely talented nationals returning home to contribute ... Whether it be lecturing part time, being contracted to work on future driven projects, mentoring and of course business activities-this (along with others) is the type of project that will bring them home.

Agreed, the brain drain has been going on too long. A lot of the bright minds that decide to stay and try to make the country better are not being appreciated for their efforts.

[Trinispougla]

Rasc,calm yourself. I agree in theory with that. Africa will surpass us eventually quite easily too. The trini mindset is doom to fail us when the economy collapsed. I have friends from Africa many who I helped during my MSc. All of them are being funded by they respective governments for PhDs. These are rich countries, these were students from Senegal, Mozambique, Niger and Angola. And their 'primitive' African governments were fully funding them to study any topic they wanted. In Trinidad we over promote undergraduate study while under funding and appreciating post grad work.

These countries will go far. But I digress.

The rapid fail not by any measure will dig us out of our hole. That is argument many are putting forth.

Imo its too late to start this now, we simply cannot afford this mega project. Priorities man.not saying it wasn't needed. it was either that or the highways the PP built. We got what we got.

Right now it is a horrible idea to spend your way out of a recession especially if you have very little to fall back on.

Firstly, African countries, specifically these three mentioned can afford to fund their post graduates, not because of money or resources. Their education system below this grade is a mess. he people who make it to the post graduate level are either the elite or exceptionally gifted students who gain scholarships throughout their school careers(i.e the pool is extremely small). Angola alone has to have many Chinese engineers and technicians constructing their infrastructure and energy needs much to the chagrin of Western multinationals and governments wanting to make a killing. Simply because these countries despite having the resources, have serious problems with educating the vast majority of their people. Mozambique is seeing the results of a fractured education system(not entirely their fault) with recruiting of illiterate Renamo Armed Bandits. Niger, despite having the world's largest(or one of) uranium deposits has a literacy rate of 28.9%. Equatorial Guinea would be a better example but their system is bolstered by ginormous oil reserves.Has a literacy rate of over 94%
Secondly, the IDB or IADB is not going to demand one lump sum payment. The reason they have lent us the technical expertise and the money is because they believe that we will be in a position to pay it back at some point. I go back to the example of Bolivia. Bolivia as we know, is the poorest country in South America. For decades, starting in the seventies, the country was in the clutches of the IMF and the World Bank. This despite some of the largest silver deposits in Potosi. Bolivia is now a well known example of prudent fiscal management and maximization of resources. Their gdp grew by more six percent last year. That said, Bolivia is WELL behind countries such as Ecuador and slightly behind Paraguay. The reason I mentioned these is these two countries are generally regarded as the other two poor economies on the continent. But the IDB funds almost entirely, all Bolivia's infrastructural projects. Right now, Bolivia has no way of paying back the IDB for those projects. Part of the feasibility study is the country's ability to pay back the loan. This is the reason for years, the organization only signed agreements and MOU'S with countries such as Haiti, Honduras and other poor republics. They are of the view that Bolivia can pay that money back which is why they are involved in the building of Dams, roads, railroads, education, etc. Trinidad will not have to pay for the technical expertise, the IDB sends the engineers, the accountants, the project managers, the technicians. The loan will be repaid over time and the oil price isn't going to remain as low as it is forever

[Redman]

What exactly does Brazil offer Mercedes Benz and Volvo etc that we cannot?

Uh...a domestic market that is large enough to support domestic production.

Yes one of our issues is our size.

buh dont study it...size isnt everything.

[brams112]

Nah

If Duane bans the word "Nah" from use on this forum you really wouldn't have much purpose here!!!

I was under the impression only I noticed this idiot only saying nothing but jumping in all the topics,was going to bring it up,but saw he was going bat out of hell feeling post count have a prize,so I just kept in the shadows laffing at him and the others who got multiple accounts.

[K74T]

Yeah boy I aiming for dat prize, competition real stiff.

[Numb3r4]

I keep hearing about these three African countries but one must mention that they are loaded with natural resources. It must also be said that many of these resource rich countries tend to be taken advantage of by multinationals much to the benefit of the few and at the expense of the general population.

One must also make mention of the fact that these infrastructural projects are deals made with the Chinese, infrastructure in exchange for resources etc., one must be wary of these things and to who the benefit really goes to. Fine we've got a rail but when the Chinese and the resources go can we maintain it on our own?

We have oil and gas and we still have a functionally illiterate population of about 20% of the total. Some people say more....isn't this where the oil and gas money should go first, to the improving of what we already have, to the betterment of policy and the general empowering of the public and achieving a raised standard of government services. Haven't we had enough infrastructural projects, we get one every 5 years...take a break.

With the IDB they will fund you only if you have the potential to pay them back. Which means that yes you can obtain a piece of infrastructure but is it worth the long term cost not just the financial but the IDB measures that may be inflicted upon the populace? Yeah we've got the rail but when the IDB runs the economy would we like? We might have no choice but to like it.

[Redman]

On another somewhat related note...
There are quite a few Trinbagonian EXPERTS (20+ years experience) in mass transit and rail in particular living, practising abroad who genuinely want to return to help in any which way to make this a success.

Whether it be downstream or upstream there is no shortage of talented citizenry the world over who want to come home and assist in this project.

Alot of you guys not seeing the added benefit of having technically savvy citizens return home and contribute to the KNOWLEDGE transfer. One of the biggest challenges any developing nation has is having its extremely talented nationals returning home to contribute ... Whether it be lecturing part time, being contracted to work on future driven projects, mentoring and of course business activities-this (along with others) is the type of project that will bring them home.

All those citizens are gainfully employed because there was a process followed and implemented.


All of them are part of a system with different components that is useful in their location....because it was successfully implemented...

What we have down here is a POLITICAL decision that is now the answer....and we just trying to find the right questions that lead to that answer...


The RR is such a large project...and our history of managing projects sucks such large battam that we need to be double dog sure that its the right thing and we not being handed a justification as an excuse to transfer wealth to a few chosen people.

aaaafakinGAIN.

[RASC]

On another somewhat related note...
There are quite a few Trinbagonian EXPERTS (20+ years experience) in mass transit and rail in particular living, practising abroad who genuinely want to return to help in any which way to make this a success.

Whether it be downstream or upstream there is no shortage of talented citizenry the world over who want to come home and assist in this project.

Alot of you guys not seeing the added benefit of having technically savvy citizens return home and contribute to the KNOWLEDGE transfer. One of the biggest challenges any developing nation has is having its extremely talented nationals returning home to contribute ... Whether it be lecturing part time, being contracted to work on future driven projects, mentoring and of course business activities-this (along with others) is the type of project that will bring them home.

All those citizens are gainfully employed because there was a process followed and implemented.


All of them are part of a system with different components that is useful in their location....because it was successfully implemented...

What we have down here is a POLITICAL decision that is now the answer....and we just trying to find the right questions that lead to that answer...


The RR is such a large project...and our history of managing projects sucks such large battam that we need to be double dog sure that its the right thing and we not being handed a justification as an excuse to transfer wealth to a few chosen people.

aaaafakinGAIN.

All I'm hearing from y'all is:

We not ready
We cyar manage
We too lazy to pull it off
We too small

We used to be leaders, but with y'all in charge we will be destined to be followers.

[brams112]

Like it have a certain tuner have to profit big from this project boi.

[bluesclues]

On another somewhat related note...
There are quite a few Trinbagonian EXPERTS (20+ years experience) in mass transit and rail in particular living, practising abroad who genuinely want to return to help in any which way to make this a success.

Whether it be downstream or upstream there is no shortage of talented citizenry the world over who want to come home and assist in this project.

Alot of you guys not seeing the added benefit of having technically savvy citizens return home and contribute to the KNOWLEDGE transfer. One of the biggest challenges any developing nation has is having its extremely talented nationals returning home to contribute ... Whether it be lecturing part time, being contracted to work on future driven projects, mentoring and of course business activities-this (along with others) is the type of project that will bring them home.

All those citizens are gainfully employed because there was a process followed and implemented.


All of them are part of a system with different components that is useful in their location....because it was successfully implemented...

What we have down here is a POLITICAL decision that is now the answer....and we just trying to find the right questions that lead to that answer...


The RR is such a large project...and our history of managing projects sucks such large battam that we need to be double dog sure that its the right thing and we not being handed a justification as an excuse to transfer wealth to a few chosen people.

aaaafakinGAIN.

All I'm hearing from y'all is:

We not ready
We cyar manage
We too lazy to pull it off
We too small

We used to be leaders, but with y'all in charge we will be destined to be followers.

wups, dont try dat. we is already followers. since d past 50 yrs.

would be interested in a list of unique solutions came up with, to solve local problems, without being followfashion of some other country in political history.

[Trinispougla]

I keep hearing about these three African countries but one must mention that they are loaded with natural resources. It must also be said that many of these resource rich countries tend to be taken advantage of by multinationals much to the benefit of the few and at the expense of the general population.

One must also make mention of the fact that these infrastructural projects are deals made with the Chinese, infrastructure in exchange for resources etc., one must be wary of these things and to who the benefit really goes to. Fine we've got a rail but when the Chinese and the resources go can we maintain it on our own?

We have oil and gas and we still have a functionally illiterate population of about 20% of the total. Some people say more....isn't this where the oil and gas money should go first, to the improving of what we already have, to the betterment of policy and the general empowering of the public and achieving a raised standard of government services. Haven't we had enough infrastructural projects, we get one every 5 years...take a break.

With the IDB they will fund you only if you have the potential to pay them back. Which means that yes you can obtain a piece of infrastructure but is it worth the long term cost not just the financial but the IDB measures that may be inflicted upon the populace? Yeah we've got the rail but when the IDB runs the economy would we like? We might have no choice but to like it.

I think you are confusing the IDB with the IMF or world bank. The later institutions are meant to keep economies afloat. They don't deal with expenditure. They deal with revenue. E.g, in Jamaica, when the bauxite market crashed in the mid seventies, they were forced to bring in the Imf to help pay wages, upkeep healthcare and so on. This is because they had little revenue and they needed a Cash boost. They are still with the imf and have to abide by certain spending regulations. The organization strictly deals with sort of doomsday situations like Greece. The IDB won't impose limitations on you're spending. They simply won't or will stop funding you

[Redman]

On another somewhat related note...
There are quite a few Trinbagonian EXPERTS (20+ years experience) in mass transit and rail in particular living, practising abroad who genuinely want to return to help in any which way to make this a success.

Whether it be downstream or upstream there is no shortage of talented citizenry the world over who want to come home and assist in this project.

Alot of you guys not seeing the added benefit of having technically savvy citizens return home and contribute to the KNOWLEDGE transfer. One of the biggest challenges any developing nation has is having its extremely talented nationals returning home to contribute ... Whether it be lecturing part time, being contracted to work on future driven projects, mentoring and of course business activities-this (along with others) is the type of project that will bring them home.

All those citizens are gainfully employed because there was a process followed and implemented.


All of them are part of a system with different components that is useful in their location....because it was successfully implemented...

What we have down here is a POLITICAL decision that is now the answer....and we just trying to find the right questions that lead to that answer...


The RR is such a large project...and our history of managing projects sucks such large battam that we need to be double dog sure that its the right thing and we not being handed a justification as an excuse to transfer wealth to a few chosen people.

aaaafakinGAIN.

All I'm hearing from y'all is:

We not ready
We cyar manage
We too lazy to pull it off
We too small

We used to be leaders, but with y'all in charge we will be destined to be followers.

well you certainly eh following

Show me a proper study...policy plan....that is based on factual need...not political expedience.

show that ....and do what ever it says.

[Numb3r4]

....

With the IDB they will fund you only if you have the potential to pay them back. Which means that yes you can obtain a piece of infrastructure but is it worth the long term cost not just the financial but the IDB measures that may be inflicted upon the populace? Yeah we've got the rail but when the IDB runs the economy would we like? We might have no choice but to like it.

I think you are confusing the IDB with the IMF or world bank. The later institutions are meant to keep economies afloat. They don't deal with expenditure. They deal with revenue. E.g, in Jamaica, when the bauxite market crashed in the mid seventies, they were forced to bring in the Imf to help pay wages, upkeep healthcare and so on. This is because they had little revenue and they needed a Cash boost. They are still with the imf and have to abide by certain spending regulations. The organization strictly deals with sort of doomsday situations like Greece. The IDB won't impose limitations on you're spending. They simply won't or will stop funding you

Point taken but still what happens if we happen to default on the loan? Do they come in a run the project, do they do it from the start if so do they bring their own contractors and suppliers?

If that is the case how does the project help the local labour market (if they come with their preferred contractors)?

If we do run amok with the project doesn't that mean we will take longer to pay it back? This would still result in measures having to be taken to repay to avoid further penalties, wouldn't it? If not by the IDB but by the government to service the repayment of the loan....wouldn't it?

[Numb3r4]

.........

All I'm hearing from y'all is:

We not ready
We cyar manage
We too lazy to pull it off
We too small

We used to be leaders, but with y'all in charge we will be destined to be followers.

We not ready - True our current mass transit system leaves a lot to be desired, many of the other transit systems require a multi-pronged approach requiring both an effective bus system to compliment the rail mechanism. Think TTC.

We cyar manage - True how many other infrastructural projects were poorly handled; Tarouba, Just recently the Highway (allegations of cost overruns etc.), The NAPA/SAPA auditoriums (poor construction), The Red House (our seat of political power still under maintenance), GTL, poorly managed state companies; Petrotrin, TSTT, WASA, our health care system is in a bit of a rut (to say the least).

We too lazy to pull it off - True our low productivity is well documented.

We too small - True compared to countries like Brazil the size of the domestic market is to a great advantage there. A small country could have chance if it were to corner the market, however it would require a highly skilled/educated and motivated population.

Question when were we leaders, and with/in what?