Petrotrin refinery shut down

[Monkey Man]

No i am not employed by petrotrin. My background is in negotiating workers salaries and benefits in a technical dept ranging from engineers electricians and technicians. We work with risk factors work conditions economic climate as well as job descriptions outlined by the employer to determine how we negotiate. Temperary and contract positions are ways in which an employer keeps cost down. The other option would be to subcontract these positions to an outside company instead which in the long run will cost the company less. Easy termination of contract for non performance and there is always a long list of other companies willing to take up the contract.

Buh ent you a is a judge in d car show and dem

[Gladiator]

I wonder if the peddlers of (mis)information on both sides have considered the impact this may have on workers' safety? A labourer interviewed on CNC3 yesterday said in addition to the stress of losing his job, he was now concerned about people targeting him because they will think "he have money"...

You fliking feel them dunce failures at media houses care about people safety?

They will whore out their own wives/mothers/babymamas to sell a story. Bunch of pathetic low lives if you ask me

Yeah boy Hema Ramkisoon ent realise she red panties showing for the past 2 mornings.....

[Redman]

What would be the position if the refinery is sold or a management contract arranged....and it is brough back on stream,right sized and possible?

Cuz allyuh know that is the point here

[wing]

[nervewrecker]

No i am not employed by petrotrin. My background is in negotiating workers salaries and benefits in a technical dept ranging from engineers electricians and technicians. We work with risk factors work conditions economic climate as well as job descriptions outlined by the employer to determine how we negotiate. Temperary and contract positions are ways in which an employer keeps cost down. The other option would be to subcontract these positions to an outside company instead which in the long run will cost the company less. Easy termination of contract for non performance and there is always a long list of other companies willing to take up the contract.

Buh ent you a is a judge in d car show and dem

Sr has more than one job.
Honestly I donno where he even finds time to post here.

[nervewrecker]

What would be the position if the refinery is sold or a management contract arranged....and it is brough back on stream,right sized and possible?

Cuz allyuh know that is the point here

Nothing wrong with that.
But what if its sold to a certain set of people and we get scraps? Why should it not belong to the people of trinidad and tobago?

[nervewrecker]

I wonder if the peddlers of (mis)information on both sides have considered the impact this may have on workers' safety? A labourer interviewed on CNC3 yesterday said in addition to the stress of losing his job, he was now concerned about people targeting him because they will think "he have money"...

You fliking feel them dunce failures at media houses care about people safety?

They will whore out their own wives/mothers/babymamas to sell a story. Bunch of pathetic low lives if you ask me

As is, two employees have been attacked, robbed and beaten..
People claim they are robbing the country and have the country in this state.
Others have been jeered on and met hostility at gunpoint.

[ary1]

I wonder if the peddlers of (mis)information on both sides have considered the impact this may have on workers' safety? A labourer interviewed on CNC3 yesterday said in addition to the stress of losing his job, he was now concerned about people targeting him because they will think "he have money"...

You fliking feel them dunce failures at media houses care about people safety?

They will whore out their own wives/mothers/babymamas to sell a story. Bunch of pathetic low lives if you ask me

Yeah boy Hema Ramkisoon ent realise she red panties showing for the past 2 mornings.....

Her body language and tone also changes everytime she speaks to a union or about govt workers. Just my observation.

[nervewrecker]

Normal day of temps.
24/7 operations.
#run_it_down_and_contract_it_out

First location on the right after the T-junction?

So I was told..

[teems1]

IMG-20180907-WA0001.jpg

So does Petrotrin run at a profit or not?

[sMASH]

Imagine, in may, finance ministry was boasting that energy sector thriving and everything is going swimmingly, and by August is pressure.

When the petrotrin is privatized, there will be minimal labor hired, lower wages, and less profit return to the country.

[nervewrecker]

Study measures being put into place making cng readily available so they can justify raising fuel prices.

Wait for it.

Dem petchocin men salaree too hiii! Fyah dem, close it dong, leh dem suffah!

$10.00 doubles here we come.

[Redman]

What would be the position if the refinery is sold or a management contract arranged....and it is brough back on stream,right sized and possible?

Cuz allyuh know that is the point here

Nothing wrong with that.
But what if its sold to a certain set of people and we get scraps? Why should it not belong to the people of trinidad and tobago?

Im all in favor of retaining ownership of the assets and letting some one work the assets for a fair share.

If that cant happen-then we need to sell it to some one who has the TECHNICAL ability to run it profitably and the money.
in that order of priority.

You mention 1% -or 13000 in a population of 1.3M
while the country is being asked to continue funding an entity that is losing billions per year...in order to keep 5000 working.

[Triniak47]

Check out this bit of info from fb: "Petrotrin. Some of the information you need to be aware of, before you come to an opinion. The closure of the refinery here in Trinidad, has left many within the industry asking if there was a better way of managing the poor finances of the refinery in question.
1. Clarity - The refinery is one of three major business units that Petrotrin owns. The other two being Off-Shore Exploration and Production (Trinmar) and On-Shore Exploration and Production.
2. Facts - Some of the poor decisions that led to a heavy finance burden for the refinery, included the failed WGTL Unit, and Civil issues with the ULSD and a court case with Samsung EPC. Together, these were over $4B TTD. There were methods introduced to mitigate these losses when they happened. These also happened under various management / boards / governments.
3. Facts – 1700 employees are too much. Most refineries of this size and complexity use between 200 – 450 employees.
4. Facts – Petrotrin purchases 166K BPD of Oil. 25K refined is sold to the Government. The remaining is sold to overseas markets. By simple math, you can see it’s a net neutral / positive firm on Fx. If you import, you now need to pay in Fx on a daily basis. It must also be noted that Petrotrin refinery was NOT designed to use local crude. The design was for sweet and not sweet / sour, or sour as we produce here in TT.
5. Misinformation - Most of Petrotrin refinery are NEW units – ISOM, Acid / Alky, CCR and a rebuilt FCCU. These are not obsolescent / old, as are the E&P platforms off-shore.
6. Facts – Even to shut-down, there is a great cost in emptying the process and this is time consuming and high cost.
7. Facts - The scope increases in the GOP Upgrade, were primarily driven by market forces at that time, and no great amount of blame should be given the Refinery managers, as the upgrades needed to be completed on time to ensure a period of time to capture the market on particular product lines.
8. Misinformation - $3 B owed in taxes and royalties! The refinery was actually owed money by the Government as a result of the subsidy, and paid no royalties, as royalties are a payment on E&P side, and not the refinery.
9. Misinformation - $12B in debt. This debt was carried and was allowed to be carried. Yes it was high, but not impossible to manage. Additionally, even if the refinery is shut-in, the debt remains viable for payment.
10. Facts – Petrotrin has more than 5000 pensioners. Who will be taking up this bill?
11. Facts – Petrotrin Augustus Long Hospital treats 20,000 patients per year, most being family, staff and environ persons. Who continues this?
12. Facts – There are 5000+ persons involved in the downstream of the refinery directly. This is in addition to the 1700 direct staff. Who do they serve now?
13. Facts – There are other high priced areas of the refinery – Terminal Opps, Docks etc. There are opportunity costs here not being considered.
My humble opinion being a Senior Manager, in the Oil and Gas industry for more than 20 years now, is that the Government has included a lot of misinformation to the public, to the point of even trying to sell this as a great idea to many. You have to ask – why push to sell this asset, when the opportunity costs and stated facts, suggest multiple other approaches to managing this going into the future."

[nervewrecker]

What would be the position if the refinery is sold or a management contract arranged....and it is brough back on stream,right sized and possible?

Cuz allyuh know that is the point here

Nothing wrong with that.
But what if its sold to a certain set of people and we get scraps? Why should it not belong to the people of trinidad and tobago?

Im all in favor of retaining ownership of the assets and letting some one work the assets for a fair share.

If that cant happen-then we need to sell it to some one who has the TECHNICAL ability to run it profitably and the money.
in that order of priority.

You mention 1% -or 13000 in a population of 1.3M
while the country is being asked to continue funding an entity that is losing billions per year...in order to keep 5000 working.

Why not restructure it, fix it and work it?
Why give it away?
We fight to take our assets from the white man and now we fighting to give it back?

[airuma]

The question is did Petrotrin ever required 5000 staff members to effectively function though? Why were there so many staff members and such little output? What was the optimum amount of employees that the refinery could operate with.

Did the union ever seek to decrease employment and have the refinery operating efficiently? Oh wait

All that boasting about salary, range rover, millions and a man in a suit in an office somewhere sign a peace of paper and everybody get send home.

Ah wonder how much bush that man face in he life before he sign that paper. Some of alluh really have a warped sense of importance yes.

That looking like a hard labour prison sentence.

This is the point that seems to evade the "defenders of petrotrin". If you HAD incapable managers, then the plant was not run effectively or efficiently! I could pay 10 men to scrub my yard with toothbrushes or one man to scrub it with a yard broom..... the results in both cases would be acceptable to me but one method would require much more expenditure.
The issue here is that the toothbrush method provides for employment of more people which means more union members, hence more union fees...... herein lies the conflict!
Those pictures and scary stories should have been the source of nightmares for the union leader if these former petrotrin employees really wanted the best for themselves!

[airuma]

Measures putting into place to raise fuel prices. Good reason to justify it..
1% smiling all now..

Fuel prices were raised every budget for the last 3 years iirc, and petrotrin was in operation..... so what's your point?

[neilsingh100]

Why not restructure it, fix it and work it?
Why give it away?
We fight to take our assets from the white man and now we fighting to give it back?

What is the point of owning assets when it not generating any income for us? We get more money from BPTT than Petrotrin? Oil going the way of coal in the next couple of decades so now is actually a good time to start maximizing the return we can get from whatever oil we have left.

[sMASH]

yet the carpenter drain the company dry

the reason to keep the company going is to secure jobs at this low point.
but if u keep that same administration on board, with those same friends, then u would end up with the same results. a painter signing his own payslip for 10s of thousands of dollars.

[randolphinshan]

I wonder if the peddlers of (mis)information on both sides have considered the impact this may have on workers' safety? A labourer interviewed on CNC3 yesterday said in addition to the stress of losing his job, he was now concerned about people targeting him because they will think "he have money"...

You fliking feel them dunce failures at media houses care about people safety?

They will whore out their own wives/mothers/babymamas to sell a story. Bunch of pathetic low lives if you ask me

As is, two employees have been attacked, robbed and beaten..
People claim they are robbing the country and have the country in this state.
Others have been jeered on and met hostility at gunpoint.

While I will never condone violence against a fellow human being, Petrotrin workers will never get pity from most Trinidadians. The workers, management and union knew they were the highest pain relative to the majority of the workforce in this country, all the while being very inefficient. The raping of the treasury had to stop some day, and it took too long to close Petrotrin down.

Let them look for work elsewhere now and understand what the average worker makes.

[sMASH]

Never get pity u say...

[Gladiator]

yet the carpenter drain the company dry

the reason to keep the company going is to secure jobs at this low point.
but if u keep that same administration on board, with those same friends, then u would end up with the same results. a painter signing his own payslip for 10s of thousands of dollars.

That is a whole different level of corruption..... this whole Petrotrin fiasco screams of coverup and sabotage. Take a last dip in the barrel, fill your pockets and ride out!!!

[sMASH]

top to bottom was milking it, but workers dont sign their own cheques. and the ones at the top dealing with millions and billions of dollars.


so, rather than prosecute mismanagement and condemn urself(cause every body shading everybody else coco) they would rather demonize the little worker, and shut down the place.

[Ben_spanna]

Fake oil? whats that??? A V Dril- huh??? its been over 6 weeks, the whole country done forget about that ……………...

[agent007]

I don't normally post in this forum but there appears to be a lot of misinformation spreading all over the place. I can't believe we have so much pundits and specialists in the field of money management and oil and gas management right in this forum. It just shows that the talent the country requires right now is located in trinituner. I am asking or begging, please fellow knowledgeable tuners, if you all truly know how to go about dealing with Petrotrin, don't just sit behind the anonymity of your keyboard and make suggestions. Please present yourself to the OWTU and deliver your reports. Outside of that, there are two major clashes happening in the country right now. There are those pro PNM supporters who are supporting the decision and then there are the pro UNC supporters who finally figure that the pro Petrotrin crowd is on their side. Let's wind the clock back to 2010. We got rid of Manning to welcome KPB then we as a country got fed up of her and put back PNM with Rowley. What you guys think is the next move? Obviously UNC want to come back and then when the unions find something to hate about, they will return to PNM again. Back and forth politics. People use parties for their benefit and don't think about country. I am reading comments in this thread and it's all about self not about country. Less than 5000 employees could engage a corrupt and unethical union such as the OWTU to make the rest of the country sink because of false info spreading. The issue of Petrotrins demise was a topic of discussion more than a decade ago it's just that no one had the guts to make the decision. One good thing the PNM did and people instilling anarchy and civil unrest. So be it as it may, as a firm believer in democracy and since a lot of us want to shut the country down to continue the status quo then I say, let the OWTU have it their way. Let Petrotrin continue as is but will not get a cent from the state and the AG will bring court action to Petrotrin to find the money to pay royalties owed to the state etc etc. Watch and see they won't last 1 month. When T&T is rated as junk status by international rating agencies and your precious $100. Bill turns out to be worthless and the country collapses and a price of kiss loaf bread is $12000. Then we will wake up. Do Not be fooled by friends and fellow tuners, ask yourself a question. Do you have an exit plan should all hell break loose? These corrupt politicians on both sides have theirs. So unless you're a 1 or 2% in this country, if a collapse occurrs, they on the next flight to a first world nation cashing in on their hidden billions in Swiss accounts etc. While we have to fight with each other for loot.

[pete]

Interested to know the breakdown of salaries at Petrotrin.

If senior operators get 21-25 and all the smaller workers are getting less than that(the majority of the workforce?) then how many are getting way more than that to raise the average salary to 45k/month?

Is the plan to completely trim the fat and get rid of the ones making substantially more?

This is something the union has been suggesting for a long time - That the refinery and field workers are not the problem. So if they came out and said this is the plan I'm sure the union would be on board.

[Gladiator]

I don't normally post in this forum but there appears to be a lot of misinformation spreading all over the place.

I can't believe we have so much pundits and specialists in the field of money management and oil and gas management right in this forum. It just shows that the talent the country requires right now is located in trinituner.

I am asking or begging, please fellow knowledgeable tuners, if you all truly know how to go about dealing with Petrotrin, don't just sit behind the anonymity of your keyboard and make suggestions. Please present yourself to the OWTU and deliver your reports. Outside of that, there are two major clashes happening in the country right now. There are those pro PNM supporters who are supporting the decision and then there are the pro UNC supporters who finally figure that the pro Petrotrin crowd is on their side.

Let's wind the clock back to 2010. We got rid of Manning to welcome KPB then we as a country got fed up of her and put back PNM with Rowley. What you guys think is the next move? Obviously UNC want to come back and then when the unions find something to hate about, they will return to PNM again. Back and forth politics.

People use parties for their benefit and don't think about country. I am reading comments in this thread and it's all about self not about country. Less than 5000 employees could engage a corrupt and unethical union such as the OWTU to make the rest of the country sink because of false info spreading. The issue of Petrotrins demise was a topic of discussion more than a decade ago it's just that no one had the guts to make the decision.

One good thing the PNM did and people instilling anarchy and civil unrest. So be it as it may, as a firm believer in democracy and since a lot of us want to shut the country down to continue the status quo then I say, let the OWTU have it their way. Let Petrotrin continue as is but will not get a cent from the state and the AG will bring court action to Petrotrin to find the money to pay royalties owed to the state etc etc.

Watch and see they won't last 1 month. When T&T is rated as junk status by international rating agencies and your precious $100. Bill turns out to be worthless and the country collapses and a price of kiss loaf bread is $12000. Then we will wake up.

Do Not be fooled by friends and fellow tuners, ask yourself a question. Do you have an exit plan should all hell break loose? These corrupt politicians on both sides have theirs. So unless you're a 1 or 2% in this country, if a collapse occurrs, they on the next flight to a first world nation cashing in on their hidden billions in Swiss accounts etc. While we have to fight with each other for loot.

Ok since you don't normally post here i edited it a little to make it easier for others to read.....

[agent007]

Where you got that 45k a month avg From?

Btw much thanks for the edit

[gastly369]

Where you got that 45k a month avg From?

Btw much thanks for the edit

De gubbdament say so...so is so

[agent007]

At $45k per month avg means that the annual wage bill is not the $2.19B as indicated but instead it’s at $2.7B. This is still unacceptable but carry on...