the universe ... chance? or does it have a creator ?

[megadoc1]

actually I am using a Holman Cristian standard bible (HCSB) ...great stuff yo!

I know a guy named Cristian. If you meant Christian, what is the reason for using the HCSB over the KJV and others?

it have a very good rendering of the language

looks good written down, Got any proof??? can I see it?

same could be said of the things you believe in

ahhh exactly!!!! you now catching where I am coming from?

Google abiogenesis or biopoesis - you will find alot of proof

yuh mean you cannot prove it here? or even explain it?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ I am pretty sure if an atheist said "oh God!" it would be as an expression and not a genuine reference to God. No different from "jeez" which perhaps came from a shortened form of "Jesus Christ!" which was also used as an expression.

Don't confuse an expression or colloquial figure of speech as a genuine reference to God.

Oh and an atheist doesnt necessarily have anything to do with an evolutionist and vice versa.
You can be an atheist and also not even know about evolution or you can perfectly understand evolution and not be an atheist.

the reality of all of this though is that a religious fanatic cannot prove there is a god any more than an atheist can prove there isn't a God.

[turbohead]

[nareshseep]

oh gawd oye @ thread...

[turbohead]

[megadoc1]

I was merely showing up most of the people on here,
who are always trying to declare evolution as fact and then use it to argue against religion, which actually is a "faith thing" I just think they need alot more faith to believe in such
something that isn't proven to be fact, just as the religious folks do.

That's the thing there. This forum has one self proclaimed atheist as far as I've seen. MG Man. he is maybe the most honest of all

Everyone else deals with facts.
oh really?


You have a theory, you set out to prove it. When it's proven it becomes a fact.
agreed!!

But Christians feel threatened by these found facts because to them it contradicts their faith system, While scientists set out to prove these facts just for the sake of having knowledge. what facts are Christians threaten by? facts are not proven ,its proven theories that become facts, you are confused, which I find strange because you stated it clearly above....incoherence??

You know what happens to a scientist when his theory is proven wrong? He goes home and tomorrow's another day. Know what happens to a Christian when he feels like what he believes is wrong? His life and way of living is over. His promise of the afterlife is over.
you need to understand, that you, just described two separate issues!
because a christian can be a scientist,
and a scientist can be a christian...duh!!!! that never occurred to you?
science and faith (religion) can interact with one another but not where you are trying to apply it


Scientists have nothing against any religion.
not gonna dispute that but maybe, just maybe, it is a religion for some(who are not even scientists)
They just believe what they do. They also live and let live, something I've never heard of any religion doing. here you are mixing the two again
..........let me ask you something ,did you know that the scientists who reject evolution becomes a "nobody" in the scientific world?

You wanna talk about throwing words and little boys, but you set out to do the same thing in this thread, show people up. And you'll ignore me because I have a different belief from you right? Nah don't take me seriously, then talk about maturity. And still you failed because of your "scientific sources". You may not agree with my religion, but I don't need all those arguments to support my belief
neh neh neh neh neh????? whats all this about?


D Spike never renounced Christianity, or questioned it for that matter. He refined the belief with knowledge. But you prefer the ignorant way, so you call him a demon.
You have a very long way to go, and you haven't even started the journey. You just put on the sandals and boast about the journey, while turning your nose up at others.
wow man you got an axe to grind huh!!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ megadoc1 show us some facts then. Show us that the earth is 6000 years old. Show us that dinosaurs and humans roamed the earth together. Show us the facts, the empirical evidence.

turbohead, doesn't nur/nuur/noor just mean "light" in Arabic? - all translations I search for don't mention it as meaning borrowed light or reflected light. All the translation sites have it as "light" only.

[devrat]

Date: Eternity

From: GOD

To: My Children on Earth

Re: Idiotic religious rivalries

My Dear Children (and believe me, that's all of you),

I consider myself a pretty patient Guy. I mean, look at the Grand Canyon. It took millions of years to get it right. And how about evolution? Boy, nothing is slower than designing that whole Darwinian thing to take place, cell by cell and gene by gene. I've even been patient through your fashions, civilizations, wars and schemes, and the countless ways you take Me for granted until you get yourselves into big trouble again and again.

But on this occasion of My Son's birthday, I want to let you know about some things that are starting to tick me off.

First of all, your religious rivalries are driving Me up a wall. Enough already! Let's get one thing straight: These are your religions, not Mine. I'm the Whole Enchilada; I'm beyond them all. Every one of your religions claims there's only one of Me (which, by the way, is absolutely true). But in the very next breath, each religion claims it's My favorite one. And each claims its bible was written personally by me, and that all the other bibles are man-made. Oh, Me. How do I even begin to put a stop to such complicated nonsense?

Okay, listen up now: I'm your Father and Mother, and I don't play favorites among My Children. Also, I hate to break it to you, but I don't write. My longhand is awful, and I've always been more of a "doer" anyway. So all your books, including the bibles, were written by men and women. They were inspired, remarkable people, but they also made mistakes here and there. I made sure of that, so that you would never trust a written word more than your own living Heart.

You see, one Human Being to me -- even a Bum on the street -- is worth more than all the holy books in the world. That's just the kind of Guy I Am. My Spirit is not an historical thing, It's alive right here, right now, as fresh as your next breath.

Holy books and religious rites are sacred and powerful, but not more so than the least of You. They were only meant to steer you in the right direction, not to keep you arguing with each other, and certainly not to keep you from trusting your own personal connection with Me.

Which brings Me to My next point about your nonsense: You act like I need you and your religions to stick up for Me or "win souls" for My Sake. Please, don't do Me any favors. I can stand quite well on my own, thank you. I don't need you to defend Me, and I don't need constant credit. I just want you to be good to each other.

And another thing: I don't get all worked up over money or politics, so stop dragging My name into your dramas. For example, I swear to Me that I never threatened Oral Roberts. I never rode in any of Rajneesh's Rolls Royces. I never told Pat Robertson to run for president, and I've never ever had a conversation with Jim Bakker, Jerry Falwell, or Jimmy Swaggart! Of course, come Judgement Day, I certainly intend to...

The thing is, I want you to stop thinking of religion as some sort of loyalty pledge to Me. The true purpose of your religions is so that you can become more aware of Me, not the other way around. Believe Me, I know you already. I know what's in each of your hearts, and I love you with no strings attached. Lighten up and enjoy Me. That's what religion is best for.

What you seem to forget is how mysterious I Am. You look at the petty little differences in your scriptures and say, "Well, if this is the Truth, then that can't be!" But instead of trying to figure out My Paradoxes and Unfathomable Nature -- which, by the way, you never will -- why not open your hearts to the simple common threads in every religion?

You know what I'm talking about: Love and respect everyone. Be kind. Even when life is scary or confusing, take courage and be of good cheer, for I Am always with you. Learn how to be quiet, so you can hear My Still, Small Voice (I don't like to shout). Leave the world a better place by living your life with dignity and gracefulness, for you are My Own Child. Hold back nothing from life, for the parts of you that can die will surely die, and the parts that can't, won't. So don't worry, be happy (I stole that last line from Bobby McFerrin, but he stole it from Meher Baba in the first place.)

Simple stuff. Why do you keep making it so complicated? It's like you're always looking for an excuse to be upset. And I'm very tired of being your main excuse. Do you think I care whether you call me Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, Wakantonka, Brahma, Father, Mother, or even The Void or Nirvana? Do you think I care which of My Special Children you feel closest to -- Jesus, Mary, Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed or any of the others? You can call Me and My Special Ones any name you choose, if only you would go about My business of loving one another as I love you. How can you keep neglecting something so simple?

I'm not telling you to abandon your religions. Enjoy your religions, honor them, learn from them, just as you should enjoy, honor, and learn from your parents. But do you walk around telling everyone that your parents are better than theirs? Your religion, like your parents, may always have the most special place in your heart; I don't mind that at all. And I don't want you to combine all the Great Traditions into One Big Mess. Each religion is unique for a reason. Each has a unique style so that people can find the best path for themselves.

But My Special Children -- the ones your religions revolve around -- all live in the same place (My Heart) and they get along perfectly, I assure you. The clergy must stop creating a myth of sibling rivalry where there is none.

My Blessed Children of Earth, the world has grown too small for your pervasive religious bigotry and confusion. The whole planet is connected by air travel, satellite dishes, telephones, fax machines, rock concerts, diseases, and mutual needs and concerns. Get with the program! If you really want to help Me celebrate the birthday of My Son Jesus, then commit yourselves to figuring out how to feed your hungry, clothe your naked, protect your abused, and shelter your poor. And just as importantly, make your own everyday life a shining example of kindness and good humor. I've given you all the resources you need, if only you abandon your fear of each other and begin living, loving, and laughing together.

Finally, My Children everywhere, remember whose birth is honored on December 25th, and the fearlessness with which He chose to live and die. As I love Him, so do I love each one of you. I'm not really ticked off, I just wanted to grab your attention because I hate to see you suffer. But I gave you Free Will, so what can I do now other than to try to influence you through reason, persuasion, and a little old-fashioned guilt and manipulation? After all, I Am the original Jewish Mother. I just want you to be happy, and I'll sit in The Dark. I really Am, indeed, I swear, with you always. Always. Trust In Me.

Your One and Only,

GOD

[megadoc1]

^lol

^ megadoc1 show us some facts then. Show us that the earth is 6000 years old. Show us that dinosaurs and humans roamed the earth together. Show us the facts, the empirical evidence.

Now faith is the reality a of what is hoped for, the proof of what is not seen.

By faith we understand that the universe was created by God’s command, so that what is seen has been made from things that are not visible.

that's the best I can do for you Duane

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ that's it? You have faith so therefore it is true?

[BulletProof]

megadoc1, there is no point arguing either side of the God/no God debate. This has been raging for millenia, in fact Solomon commented on it in the Bible as well, so do you think it will be resolved on an Internet forum (an auto forum of all things). Your energies could be better spent helping the needy or something to show that you believe in God and prove your beliefs through your actions, since words are cheap.

The Bible says that God is a spirit - meaning that His existence cannot be empirically proven in this plane of existence (if you believe such things). This is where your faith comes in.

^lol
Now faith is the reality of what is hoped for, the proof of what is not seen.

By faith we understand that the universe was created by God’s command, so that what is seen has been made from things that are not visible.

This quote from the book of Hebrews shows that "faith" is just a term that represents what we believe exists, and is unprovable.

Science is the study of this Universe, the elements that make it up and the laws by which it functions. No one can lay claim to ultimate knowledge, only that it is being sought, and the more knowledge acquired raises even more questions, ad infinitum.

That said, is there solid proof that there was no need for an Entity to create the Universe? No, science says that a "Prime Mover" was needed to get the Big Bang going (granted this is only one theory - albeit the prevailing one), and at one instant in time there was nothing, and then there was everything. This may be interpreted as a requirement for "God" and then again it might not.

Is evolution real? To some extent, yes (micro-evolution and adaptation), and the rest (macro-evolution as an extrapolation of adaptation) is only a theory that gets thrown around as fact.

Does this matter to us Christians? It shouldn't. We are supposed to look towards the present, helping those in need, and the future, for the return of our Saviour.

The bottom line in my book is that we get so caught up in rhetoric and trying to prove the unprovable, that we forget the basic tenets of the Christian message - Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul. And love your fellow human being as you love yourself.

We don't prove God, we're supposed to show Him in our lives, working through us. Where there is famine, it's because we have a job to do in feeding the hungry. Where there is hate, we are expected to bring peace. Where people are being enslaved/used in the sex trade/are being subjected to all manner of injustice we are expected to do something about it. After all - we are supposed to be the body of Christ, and are supposed to be known by how much we care about our fellow man.

My $0.02.

[megadoc1]

great post bulletproof

^ that's it? You have faith so therefore it is true?

ah boy!! two things, you don't understand or you pretend not to understand.
faith is believing it to be true,having faith does not make it true, as you are trying to imply, we went thru and agreed on that before

megadoc1, believing in something does not make it true

amen!!

[Sky]

I was merely showing up most of the people on here,
who are always trying to declare evolution as fact and then use it to argue against religion, which actually is a "faith thing" I just think they need alot more faith to believe in such
something that isn't proven to be fact, just as the religious folks do.

That's the thing there. This forum has one self proclaimed atheist as far as I've seen. MG Man. he is maybe the most honest of all

Everyone else deals with facts.
oh really?
Yea really. Just because you dismiss a fact doesn't mean it's not a fact.


You have a theory, you set out to prove it. When it's proven it becomes a fact.
agreed!!
Unless you don't like what these facts mean right? Like the bible was wrong in some way.

But Christians feel threatened by these found facts because to them it contradicts their faith system, While scientists set out to prove these facts just for the sake of having knowledge. what facts are Christians threaten by? facts are not proven ,its proven theories that become facts, you are confused, which I find strange because you stated it clearly above....incoherence??
Again, ignoring facts does not change them. The sun is hot weather you like it or not.

You know what happens to a scientist when his theory is proven wrong? He goes home and tomorrow's another day. Know what happens to a Christian when he feels like what he believes is wrong? His life and way of living is over. His promise of the afterlife is over.
you need to understand, that you, just described two separate issues!
because a christian can be a scientist,
and a scientist can be a christian...duh!!!! that never occurred to you?
science and faith (religion) can interact with one another but not where you are trying to apply it

Like the ones you quoted? They have motives and results can be biased. And I'm not trying to apply anything. It's there and it's real. AGAIN, ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

Scientists have nothing against any religion.
not gonna dispute that but maybe, just maybe, it is a religion for some(who are not even scientists)
Not maybe, but for sure. Look up the meaning of religion
They just believe what they do. They also live and let live, something I've never heard of any religion doing. here you are mixing the two again
..........let me ask you something ,did you know that the scientists who reject evolution becomes a "nobody" in the scientific world? They don't reject evolution. They reject the concept of what I stated above and what you agreed with. If a scientist ignores evolution because of their fate or otherwise, they show that they're not following the proven method of science. If you wanna fix computers with a sledge hammer the ICT community would reject you too. It's not the action, but what the action means. You cannot reject ANYTHING in science without being sure.

You wanna talk about throwing words and little boys, but you set out to do the same thing in this thread, show people up. And you'll ignore me because I have a different belief from you right? Nah don't take me seriously, then talk about maturity. And still you failed because of your "scientific sources". You may not agree with my religion, but I don't need all those arguments to support my belief
neh neh neh neh neh????? whats all this about?
This was your typical attitude in the last thread and this one.


D Spike never renounced Christianity, or questioned it for that matter. He refined the belief with knowledge. But you prefer the ignorant way, so you call him a demon.
You have a very long way to go, and you haven't even started the journey. You just put on the sandals and boast about the journey, while turning your nose up at others.
wow man you got an axe to grind huh!!

Simply showing the state you're in now. You claim to cast out demons yet you can't follow a simple rule of letting God be the judge. So I really doubt your claims. Not because I don't believe in such, but because it's you.


And you still don't get it. As a christian you rely on your faith alone. You don't need facts or evidence to back it up. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Yet you're all up in this forum trying to prove God lol. Duane told you that from the beginning. You CANNOT PROVE GOD EXISTS TO OTHERS. ANY GOD. When you read/see/hear about them finding Noah's ark, about the monks in Tibet having a visitor. About all those FACTS that says yes, the bible was right. As a Christian you should just say "heh, well look at that" Because you don't need those facts to reassure you. Your faith is weak and I'm sure you did nothing with any demons.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

megadoc1, you said Bullet proof made a good post, good for who? you?
this is the basis or your thinking. It agrees with what you want to believe and so it is good and right and true.

you bring no proof, just faith and belief - no problem with that.
we are all entitled to believe in what we want to believe in - even if it doesnt make it true.

what is wrong though is galavanting around as being a healer and exorcist and holier than thou and claiming that your way is the only right way and all others are wrong and will burn in hell.

I am asking a simple question
"please prove that your way is the right way"
you always danced around the question and never answered it.
The fact is you can't; no one can.

what it proves though is that your beliefs are no more or less valid than a person of another faith.

[Sky]

Good post Duane 3NE 2NR

[brainchild]

And you still don't get it. As a christian you rely on your faith alone. You don't need facts or evidence to back it up. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Yet you're all up in this forum trying to prove God lol. Duane told you that from the beginning. You CANNOT PROVE GOD EXISTS TO OTHERS. ANY GOD. When you read/see/hear about them finding Noah's ark, about the monks in Tibet having a visitor. About all those FACTS that says yes, the bible was right. As a Christian you should just say "heh, well look at that" Because you don't need those facts to reassure you. Your faith is weak and I'm sure you did nothing with any demons.

[megadoc1]

megadoc1, you said Bullet proof made a good post, good for who? you?
this is the basis or your thinking. It agrees with what you want to believe and so it is good and right and true.

WHAT!!!!! did the guy said something wrong?? he just graced the ched with some positivity,most of which was pointed towards me in a form of correction.
whats the fuss? d spike regularly comes in here and buff me when I go wrong (to him is most of the time though)
and I appreciate that too and I said the same to him many times, raskal posted some stuff and I did the same......
what is your problem?

you bring no proof, just faith and belief - no problem with that.
we are all entitled to believe in what we want to believe in - even if it doesnt make it true.
no one is disputing that!!! I personally will defend anyone's right to believe what ever they want.



what is wrong though is galavanting around as being a healer and exorcist and holier than thou and claiming that your way is the only right way and all others are wrong and will burn in hell.yeah I agree that is wrong, not that it maybe not true but in the way it is done...but what if that's a man's belief, would you tell him he have a wrong one?


I am asking a simple question
"please prove that your way is the right way"
you always danced around the question and never answered it.
The fact is you can't; no one can.
then why ask it? we already know its all by faith.......

what it proves though is that your beliefs are no more or less valid than a person of another faith.ahmmm.... what proves this?,

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ LOL you really do contradict yourself

MG Man, sMash and Sky also graced the thread with their positivity but I don't see you agreeing with them.

You will defend anyone's right to believe what ever they want? LOL
Why start this thread then and claim the scientists are so wrong?
In another thread you claimed Hindu Gods were demons and that you used your powers to cast out those demons from someone.

If a man believes something and he brings it to the public and starts comparing it to other facts, theories and beliefs then YES it is up for scrutiny and he should at that point be able to prove his view over the ones he is comparing to! Otherwise keep your beliefs to yourself!

If it's all by faith then why did you start this thread claiming Creationism is right and Big Bang and Evolution are wrong?

what it proves though is that your beliefs are no more or less valid than a person of another faith

ahmmm.... what proves this?

PLEASE show me something that disproves it!

[turbohead]

^^^the Quran proved big bang if you watched the naik excerpt

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ "the heavens and the earth were joined together, before We clove them asunder" proves big bang theory?

in any case the earth was not around during the big bang.

[Tar Baby]

Removed by Moderator

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ just like Columbus and the Amerindians, first contact for us would more than likely be colonisation and we'd be the Amerindians

[brainchild]

^ just like Columbus and the Amerindians, first contact for us would more than likely be colonisation and we'd be the Amerindians

For real eh...who knows what our great great grand children maybe praying to and referring to our past religions as myths.

The way of the world!!

[DrunkenMaster16]

megadoc1, believing in something does not make it true

Let megadoc1 believe what ever god created the heavens and the earth, he'll argue the point till its no longer worth discussing.

Flying Spaghetti Monster FTW!

[d spike]

We don't prove God, we're supposed to show Him in our lives, working through us. Where there is famine, it's because we have a job to do in feeding the hungry. Where there is hate, we are expected to bring peace. Where people are being enslaved/used in the sex trade/are being subjected to all manner of injustice we are expected to do something about it. After all - we are supposed to be the body of Christ, and are supposed to be known by how much we care about our fellow man.

great post bulletproof

How remarkable. When I was posting this same concept, all megadoc had to say was that I was a liar, and he rebuked and condemned me. Perhaps I was wrong, and megadoc has changed...

megadoc1, you said Bullet proof made a good post, good for who? you?

WHAT!!!!! did the guy said something wrong?? he just graced the ched with some positivity,most of which was pointed towards me in a form of correction.
whats the fuss? d spike regularly comes in here and buff me when I go wrong
and I appreciate that too and I said the same to him many times

"Said the same to him many times" huh? That you certainly did...

with that[spoiler]I rebuke you in the mighty name of Jesus Christ son of the living God[/spoiler]

d spike, is a wicked man just as earlier detected,his posts in this ched are testament to all this .

repent!!! of those wicked ways or your judgment will be greater

do you believe Jesus Christ son of the living GOD alive ? YES or NO

ps telling a man to repent is a very loving thing a man can say to another human being

your purpose is to deceive and to prevent people from coming to know GOd

come to Jesus Christ and stop being a fool for the demonic realm

take win d spike but I have news for you
you are already condemned

(I'll stop here for now, as I'm sure I've made my point.)

After having had to put up with the ignorance, self-imposed blindness, and the antagonistic/misanthropic attitude that has been paraded here as religious fervour on no small part by megadoc, forgive me for finding the following response of his most laughable:

we are all entitled to believe in what we want to believe in

no one is disputing that!!! I personally will defend anyone's right to believe what ever they want.

[Sky]

^^ wheys!

/thread

[[X]~Outlaw]

[megadoc1]

d spike you on a roll yo!!
those were my response to your concept like this???

We don't prove God, we're supposed to show Him in our lives, working through us. Where there is famine, it's because we have a job to do in feeding the hungry. Where there is hate, we are expected to bring peace. Where people are being enslaved/used in the sex trade/are being subjected to all manner of injustice we are expected to do something about it. After all - we are supposed to be the body of Christ, and are supposed to be known by how much we care about our fellow man.

wow!!!!!!

on the other hand it seems like the psuedo scientist can only talk religion

[turbohead]

^ "the heavens and the earth were joined together, before We clove them asunder" proves big bang theory?

in any case the earth was not around during the big bang.

typical trini.... before yuh view the broader picture yuh quick to make out. is the concept of God existing we rappin about here, what about all the other statements they have no right also? Duane yuh is a rell bachannalist ah feel mg man hack yuh porfile.

[megadoc1]

when I started this thread, My purpose at the time was to show up the absurd position that so many others have taken, in religious threads in this forum, that science is solely based on fact, experiments and physical evidence; and, that any religion being based solely on faith is illogical, foolish and stupid....(and eh..they asking for proof too)
if you look through any religious thread, you will see how many times it is claimed that science has all the hard physical evidence
( which is far from true)and religion has none. they totally reject as nonexistent or lies or delusions the thousands of testimonies and witnesses of religious and spiritual phenomena. All saying that we have NO evidence.
yet none of them would investigate such claims..............(yes opportunities were given) "They" are not willing to accept the possibility that there is anything that is not science.
even scientific stuff posted that opposes what they already accepted are disregarded
as biased!!!
because the scientist happens to have a religious belief ?? (yes there are Muslim,Christian,Hindu,Buddhist and atheist scientists) what makes the atheist a better scientist over the others?? I wonder if they think is only atheist scientists out there?
That to me is being closed minded and just the opposite to what any real scientific thinking person should be.
they accuse the religious people of being blind and biased, that we cannot see anything but what we want to see.

but it seems like they are exactly, what they accuse the religious people of ............

the funny part is this

ah man asked "what is your best encounter with God" somebody find it fit to speak about evolution in there
ah man say " sai baba sick" somebody find it fit to speak about evolution in dey

why?