What is the PNM's plan for the economy?

[bluesclues]

only problem boy op.. is that it doesnt seem that you know that austerity measures.. IS a keynesian strategy. sure it has pulled countries out of recesion before. but remember recession is a cyclical pattern and by using the same policies each recession was always worse than the one before.

but evidently the only measures that cut recessions almost immediately is if governments facilitate the people over the corporations and let bad corporations die. too big to fail as a mantra has to be abandoned. corporations that run on policies that bleed a country dry economically need to face the burden of their poor choices when the economy come back around looking to balance their section. corporation do shyt.. take it over, if its too difficult to manage sell to someone else with a new set of restrictions that will prevent them making the same mistakes that led to that situation.

in keynes though the main philosophy IS THERE. they know that they have to get more CIRCULATION going. but they found a shortcut that allowed them to create that circulation within a small circle. leaving out the general population but still representing well in our gdp books. but originally.. increasing circulation means more money in consumer hands so that they dont feel any pinch. that is consumer confidence.. when consumers actually have money. regardless of tough times or not.. ppl with strong finances will spend to keep their quality of life as close as possible to what theyre accustomed to.


but im with you on the austerity for mega projects thing. we really have no business again trying to facilitate the economy by awarding large contractor agency jobs. individual works jobs on our roads alone will have a much greater impact imv.

The Contractors' Association president said that wrt to the housing thrust being contemplated. Spread the contracts and not award mega contracts. I agree as long as the contractor has the resources to do the job safely and properly, Sammy and others have too much contracts for other things to be looking to do housing as well.

since kamla and dem in power i tell them do that. i am glad however that they at least raised the minimum wage.

again.. doesnt affect me i dont work for nobody and wouldnt work for minimum wage anywhere. but i was looking out for my fellow trini and my country's economy when i said it. they didnt want it to go to 15. i wanted it to go to 20.. but they raised it to 12 and then when they see things moving better they raised it to $15. jack warner was the only one said he'd push it to 20 from the getgo.

just give a set a small man contract.. pass real jobs through ministry of works and fix all the road in the country.

might have been about 5-8 years ago i raised a serious topic about the "Living Wage". in fact i calculated it and promoted it before the first government started talking about it publicly. that was just the first step in creating more efficient circulation. we cannot just feed large corporation contracts and devise things for them to do that we truly have no need for. some markets are permanent facilitators of public services.. some are like one hit wonders. u get a big payoff and u have to now try and invest your earnings somewhere else for th next venture.

but what we have is a bunch of one hit wonder wanting to be public service providers and it is totally unfeasible not to mention costly to our economy.

[ingalook]

only problem boy op.. is that it doesnt seem that you know that austerity measures.. IS a keynesian strategy. sure it has pulled countries out of recesion before. but remember recession is a cyclical pattern and by using the same policies each recession was always worse than the one before.

but evidently the only measures that cut recessions almost immediately is if governments facilitate the people over the corporations and let bad corporations die. too big to fail as a mantra has to be abandoned. corporations that run on policies that bleed a country dry economically need to face the burden of their poor choices when the economy come back around looking to balance their section. corporation do shyt.. take it over, if its too difficult to manage sell to someone else with a new set of restrictions that will prevent them making the same mistakes that led to that situation.

in keynes though the main philosophy IS THERE. they know that they have to get more CIRCULATION going. but they found a shortcut that allowed them to create that circulation within a small circle. leaving out the general population but still representing well in our gdp books. but originally.. increasing circulation means more money in consumer hands so that they dont feel any pinch. that is consumer confidence.. when consumers actually have money. regardless of tough times or not.. ppl with strong finances will spend to keep their quality of life as close as possible to what theyre accustomed to.


but im with you on the austerity for mega projects thing. we really have no business again trying to facilitate the economy by awarding large contractor agency jobs. individual works jobs on our roads alone will have a much greater impact imv.

The Contractors' Association president said that wrt to the housing thrust being contemplated. Spread the contracts and not award mega contracts. I agree as long as the contractor has the resources to do the job safely and properly, Sammy and others have too much contracts for other things to be looking to do housing as well.

Keynes did believe in Austerity:

“The boom, not the slump, is the right time for austerity at the Treasury.” So declared John Maynard Keynes in 1937

This approach is as old as the Bible - remember "Pharaoh's Dream" (As I pointed out on tuner about 7 years ago in the midst of the Squandermania)

We are paying for that now - too bad our politicians don't learn from the past

[bluesclues]

so true. keynes measures in that sense are meant to take the advantage when the going is good. but america and those of us following in it's footsteps of a corporate federal reserve got duped into destroying our economies to follow in lock step.

china did it right.. a bit of ingenuity here and there and they achieved just what america has been trying to achieve without going trillions into deficit. printing more dollars so that there is enough for the whole world to use one currency eventually. i mean thats where its going and thats what the race is about. trinidad.. obviously.. has no business in that race lol

our race should be into increasing the value and resilience of our currency, printing less so that when that day does eventually come, we'll be able to command a large value in exchange for our currency.

but Shem was always labelled big brother and they will always be big brother to the world.

[bluesclues]

the possibility heavily lies.. that we could all get the surprise of our lives, if the usd currency starts losing value. this because many investors invested in it as a world currency reserve..but if it cant stretch far enough.. that could lead to a loss in investor confidence.. so next up they will jump on the chinese yuan.. which now takes up 11% of global market share.. even more that UK's 8%. usa still has 40% share but that could start slipping if investors start moving cash to what is obviously.. a more resilient currency. backed by a nation with tonnes of REAL GOLD, no deficit and who other countries are forced to borrow from to sustain their own economies.

[zoom rader]

Reading this chead and the present PNM plans shows that PNM is clueless.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

WTF you guys on about Sheep?

Measure your PNM and UNC penises in your own threads

That is the problem with T&T politics, no one is willing to think on their own, everybody towing the party line - regardless of whether or not it is good for the country

When I came out against UNC policies it was the same thing from the other side

Redman, Habit7, rfari and RASC ALL concede that the VAT reduction was done to benefit DOMA and the corporate fat cats in Trinidad

They ALL concede that it will ultimately hurt poor people and the country BUT - it is a PNM policy and election promise so they are fine with it.

I calling them sheep is an insult to these noble animals

Boss, Aboud come out say he did not say enough.Amcham, Pt Lisas business chamber and chaguanas business chamber said he was spot on. The only thing Dr Hosein was skeptical about was the housing drive. The only thing the Chamber of commerce disagreed with was splitting the H&S fund although economists have been saying to do this for years.

Dont bother Spougla....at times its necessary to seperate the sheep from the GOATS.

Ask Anand....its a vital distinction when driving your...

...uh point home.

Yes, let's just ignore the dissenting opinions.

What do you suggest the Government do as a way forward to improve the economy?

Scrap the rail, diversify the economy, cut wastage by scaling back the mega-projects. Enforce/improve tax collection. Tax gambling heavily. Leave VAT as it is, with some zero rated items. Get more value out of the gas supply chain by partnering with companies in JV's instead of just collecting taxes.

Ok that's a start. How do you propose they diversify the economy?
Manufacturing, agriculture, film industry, shipyards, technology, communications, fashion,

What mega projects can they scale back on currently?
Rapid rail
Partnering in JV to achieve what in your scenario? As in physically collecting of the gas? Or for technology sharing purposes? Both?
No instead of allowing companies to come here and our only involvement is gas sales and tax collection, we should be sharing in the actual profits as wellImproved tax collection was one of the points Imbert mentioned in his budget I believe.
Yes, but there still has to be enforcement of the collection regime and penalties.
Do you agree with property tax?
Yes, but not the proposed property valuation modelPlenty questions yes but they are for clarification purposes.

When I asked how you planned to diversify I meant what would you propose. Listing sectors with no details doesn't really clarify as I don't think it's as simple as waking up and branching out in to those areas or else it would have been done already. Not saying don't diversify but looking to hear actual ideas separate from oversimplifications of what we should do.

I don't see how cutting back on rapid rail helps when nothing has started as yet besides studies? Also if rapid rail was funded via a long term loan how is it a substantial drain on the economy in the short term or long term if the yearly payments are relatively small/manageable? It's not like the money is coming directly as needed from the treasury like the new highway.

Saying that we only involved in gas sales and tax collection is another oversimplification imo. Getting a share of the profits is not just an extension of the same idea? More taxation basically? Would be interesting to attempt to tax foreign companies more when cheap shale is available internationally coupled with the current gas shortages locally that are actually keeping plants from running at max capacities for a few years now. http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Ram ... 32591.html

In what way would you prefer the property tax to be implemented?

[BRZ]

Anyone who owns more than Two properties should be Taxed in a much Higher bracket, say for a third property ownership- with current income-40% tax, 4th property ownership with income -55% tax and so forth, that for sure would encourage the glut of extra income properties being kept to maintain high real estate prices to lower.

[Redman]

I don't see how cutting back on rapid rail helps when nothing has started as yet besides studies? Also if rapid rail was funded via a long term loan how is it a substantial drain on the economy in the short term or long term if the yearly payments are relatively small/manageable? It's not like the money is coming directly as needed from the treasury like the new highway.

I disagree with the RR.
My issue with this is that if it is financed....we are subject to forex and interest rate risk on a substantial level.
The size of the project means that the interest rate payments and the exchange rate can have disproportionate impacts for the life of the loan.

In what way would you prefer the property tax to be implemented?

Properly.

Meaning that the GORTT has to have a clean database of the location whatever specs the property has-rental,commercial,occupancy,etc.
before it can levy taxes.

Based on the specs attach a system that generates taxes/fees based on the usage,occupancy and the services required to support that property....trash,WASA etc.
A home with 40 people should be treated differently to one with 2.

And enforce modernized building codes.
its 2016...all of this is easily done and databased.
Give a 3 year tax benefit to any construction proven to be directly related to modernizing of the property and usage of modern materials and energy efficient systems.

Reward the behavior we want.


Allyuh realize that everything we need to do is already up and running somewhere else?
No need to re invent the wheel.

[Habit7]

I don't see how cutting back on rapid rail helps when nothing has started as yet besides studies? Also if rapid rail was funded via a long term loan how is it a substantial drain on the economy in the short term or long term if the yearly payments are relatively small/manageable? It's not like the money is coming directly as needed from the treasury like the new highway.

I disagree with the RR.
My issue with this is that if it is financed....we are subject to forex and interest rate risk on a substantial level.
The size of the project means that the interest rate payments and the exchange rate can have disproportionate impacts for the life of the loan.

Not quite.

Sen. The Hon. F. Khan: I would not call the name of the person, but let me put on the record, Madam President: a typical IDB loan, listen to me, a typical IDB loan has a five-year moratorium. I am speaking to the national population, not to you, Senators, but a moratorium means you do not pay anything for five years. The interest is approximately 3 per cent to 4 per cent, and the repayment period is between 20 to 30 years. Madam President, this is the closest thing you will ever get to free money; they foregone this, to fund the largest single infrastructural project in this country from the current account

http://www.ttparliament.org/hansards/hs20151208.pdf

You can't even get a mortgage that good.

[Redman]

Agreed. The rates are attractive now....
3-4% now.... if its fixed for the 30 year period....then great. borrow more.
at 6.4 now... if its fixed for the 30 year period...then great borrow more

Are these fixed?????

If they are..borrow and invest in everything we need.

[Trinispougla]

WTF you guys on about Sheep?

Measure your PNM and UNC penises in your own threads

That is the problem with T&T politics, no one is willing to think on their own, everybody towing the party line - regardless of whether or not it is good for the country

When I came out against UNC policies it was the same thing from the other side

Redman, Habit7, rfari and RASC ALL concede that the VAT reduction was done to benefit DOMA and the corporate fat cats in Trinidad

They ALL concede that it will ultimately hurt poor people and the country BUT - it is a PNM policy and election promise so they are fine with it.

I think calling them sheep is an insult to these noble animals

Well make a facking thread that no one could post in, because ALL threads degenerate into PP/PNM bashing, even the road tripping one. Sheep don't like to be called sheep yunno.

Yeah scrap de rail, like we scrap the smelter? Don't scrap it, postpone it until we have the money to pay back the IMF. Now isn't the time to diversify. The time for that, as Harold Ramkissoon said, was in 2012 when the first independent oil companies started to collect their first barrels of shale oil and gas. What this time is about is protecting the gains we have made. If we diversify in now, we are only going to get the proceeds from that in the next 4-5 years, its not going to help us. The unfortunate fact is that oil and gas got us into this mess, and oil and gas is going to get us out,. Diversification should have been taken atleast five to ten years ago. A major project in diversifying the downstream sector, the smelter was cancelled and we are feeling the effects

Getting rid of the smelter was a mistake, I think I said that a few years back - men brought in machinery to make rims (wheels) down her and were left with their dicks in their hands... imagine where we would have been with all those downstream industries

Closing down Caroni was a big mistake as well... it was burning money, but there was so much potential there.

You kinda just glossing over the VAT issue tho... but I doubt that is by accident

Firstly, it became impossible to make any sort of profit from Caroni. Thanks to the Lome Accord in Togo, colonial powers refused to allow in certain products, bananas, sugarcane, baggas(besides its moisture making it inferior as a fuel) etc at preferential rates This is the reason the banana industry in Guatemala and other places collapsed. These measures were meant as pseudo-compensation for colonization and by the time the new millenium dawned, they had had enough. There was nothing Mr Panday or Mr Manning could have done to save the industry. It was finished.

NOW I will get to that VAT issue. Farmers support the reduction in vat. Also, the VAT issue cannot be taken out of context with the other taxes we have to pay. Personal allowance is going to be increased, therefore people will be more willing to pay and measures are being put in place to increase the scope of the tax control structure. If personal income increases, so doers tax collection, exemplified by the last time it increased in 2006, where tax collection increased by 50%

During the 1980s, one of the methods the governments of that time used to increase revenue was to involve the private sector in housing. Clico built hundreds of homes in Tacarigua, Arima and Arouca. The housing issue is really most acute in the east-west corridor so it makes sense they would concentrate there. What you should be concerned about is the fact that those two UWI economists, of which only Dr Hosein is the only one i have serious respect for, said nothing about the cannibalistic funding of the highway, nothing about the insanity of the original budget for 2014/15 being priced at $80 per barrel even though we knew that shale oil and gas was on the verge of making seismic geopolitical and economic events, nothing about the amount of expenditure we were engaging in in contrasts to the paucity of revenue initiatives(i know oil was 114 dollars in September 2014 but our production was declining rapidly since 2011). Especially to criticize without any scientific analysis is intellectually irresponsible and quite frankly, could only be tolerated in this banana republic. And i don't vote, i think the process is pointless, i have no political opinion. I do however have an economic opinion

[RASC]

I don't see how cutting back on rapid rail helps when nothing has started as yet besides studies? Also if rapid rail was funded via a long term loan how is it a substantial drain on the economy in the short term or long term if the yearly payments are relatively small/manageable? It's not like the money is coming directly as needed from the treasury like the new highway.

I disagree with the RR.
My issue with this is that if it is financed....we are subject to forex and interest rate risk on a substantial level.
The size of the project means that the interest rate payments and the exchange rate can have disproportionate impacts for the life of the loan.

Not quite.

Sen. The Hon. F. Khan: I would not call the name of the person, but let me put on the record, Madam President: a typical IDB loan, listen to me, a typical IDB loan has a five-year moratorium. I am speaking to the national population, not to you, Senators, but a moratorium means you do not pay anything for five years. The interest is approximately 3 per cent to 4 per cent, and the repayment period is between 20 to 30 years. Madam President, this is the closest thing you will ever get to free money; they foregone this, to fund the largest single infrastructural project in this country from the current account

http://www.ttparliament.org/hansards/hs20151208.pdf

You can't even get a mortgage that good.

The UNC has a serious lack of technocrats.
That sphere is dominated by the PNM. That is a FACT! Hence this did not surprise me in the least that they took this route...

Within their ranks there aren't even enough good people to post abroad as ambassadors or appoint a well seasoned governor for the central bank!

If it were to fill them with lawyers & medical doctors yeah the UNC would've done extremely well-but given the recent ALARMING state of DR's mal practise ...can we even trust those "professionals".

[Redman]

WTF you guys on about Sheep?

Measure your PNM and UNC penises in your own threads

That is the problem with T&T politics, no one is willing to think on their own, everybody towing the party line - regardless of whether or not it is good for the country

When I came out against UNC policies it was the same thing from the other side

Redman, Habit7, rfari and RASC ALL concede that the VAT reduction was done to benefit DOMA and the corporate fat cats in Trinidad

They ALL concede that it will ultimately hurt poor people and the country BUT - it is a PNM policy and election promise so they are fine with it.

I think calling them sheep is an insult to these noble animals

Well make a facking thread that no one could post in, because ALL threads degenerate into PP/PNM bashing, even the road tripping one. Sheep don't like to be called sheep yunno.

Yeah scrap de rail, like we scrap the smelter? Don't scrap it, postpone it until we have the money to pay back the IMF. Now isn't the time to diversify. The time for that, as Harold Ramkissoon said, was in 2012 when the first independent oil companies started to collect their first barrels of shale oil and gas. What this time is about is protecting the gains we have made. If we diversify in now, we are only going to get the proceeds from that in the next 4-5 years, its not going to help us. The unfortunate fact is that oil and gas got us into this mess, and oil and gas is going to get us out,. Diversification should have been taken atleast five to ten years ago. A major project in diversifying the downstream sector, the smelter was cancelled and we are feeling the effects

Getting rid of the smelter was a mistake, I think I said that a few years back - men brought in machinery to make rims (wheels) down her and were left with their dicks in their hands... imagine where we would have been with all those downstream industries

Closing down Caroni was a big mistake as well... it was burning money, but there was so much potential there.

You kinda just glossing over the VAT issue tho... but I doubt that is by accident

Firstly, it became impossible to make any sort of profit from Caroni. Thanks to the Lome Accord in Togo, colonial powers refused to allow in certain products, bananas, sugarcane, baggas(besides its moisture making it inferior as a fuel) etc at preferential rates This is the reason the banana industry in Guatemala and other places collapsed. These measures were meant as pseudo-compensation for colonization and by the time the new millenium dawned, they had had enough. There was nothing Mr Panday or Mr Manning could have done to save the industry. It was finished.

Yes but Manning and KPB were offered a financed,structured and financially viable project to use the cane for other industries....keeping the farmers and crushing plant in operations
With off take already in place.

Little or no concessions other than the regulatory support.

BOTH chose to seek special narrow interest of friends and family.

[desifemlove]

Reading this chead and the present PNM plans shows that PNM is clueless.

Five years of she...nutten.

I await the standard retort. Doh mean that the policies of she don't have an effect and they magically stop having any effect on the 8th Sept....

[ingalook]

NOW I will get to that VAT issue. Farmers support the reduction in vat. Also, the VAT issue cannot be taken out of context with the other taxes we have to pay. Personal allowance is going to be increased, therefore people will be more willing to pay and measures are being put in place to increase the scope of the tax control structure. If personal income increases, so doers tax collection, exemplified by the last time it increased in 2006, where tax collection increased by 50%

This is still glossing over the VAT issue - Saying farmers support it (who knows their motives or what they THINK will happen) is not a reason to do it when you KNOW it is a malicious attack on poor people and a transfer of funds to the wealthiest in our society

[Trinispougla]

You haven't read my statement properly. I said that the decrease in VAT could not be taken in isolation from the other initiatives(I.e the increase in personal allowance ) and that increases the willingness to to pay taxes as happened in 2006. The products that are zero percent rated right now are luxury items. Even with VAT, those items are going to be cheaper than they were before VAT was taken off when it was 15%. As I said the vast majority of those zero rated items are what is frequently called luxury items. Check de no VAT list provided in 2012. Yogurt. Meats soaked in brine, sweetened biscuits etc. When you go to the market,the first thing you go after do not include those items. Essentially is ah set of imported items which levels the playing field for local producers. Tell me is it necessary to have dates,one of the items on the no VAT list? It is also proven that diligent tax collection stimulates economic activity. As i said to a fellow chuner, Belgium pays 42% in taxes which is why very few people, even professionals and technical persons do not own cars. And the story is very similar all across the EU.This is also the reason why even in times of recession, there is always economic activity in Europe hence the ability to maintain and embark on projects that stimulate economic activity like railway building/maintainance, road building which not only benefits the public but also benefits the coffers especially if done with the help of the private sector. Two years ago,Italy rejected Mario Monti's tax increases especially property tax thinking that he was paying off rich investors without thinking that taxes go towards better roads and schools. Hence 2014 and 2015 were some of the worst years for the Italian economy in decades. Boss you tink I want to pay so much taxes dread? But we are in a recession or it may be a period of stagnation(depends on which side of the lenses you are cause the economists in uwi not calling it a recession whereas technocrats from the CB call it such) but in order to maintain, and that is the operative word, the strides we have made, taxation is necessary. Diversification not going to help us now and every economist knows that. The time for that has passed. If it were possible to access a new market tomorrow, the profits from it would only be reaped in the next 3-5 years. In the meantime what are your options? The answer is obvious. No doubt we need alternative revenue streams, but we have 2016 to tackle and we cannot think beyond that. Which leads me to the next point. Technocrats for years have advocated splitting the H&S fund for exactly situations like these. So taxes increase yes, but you have a buffer to at least soften the impact on the lower middle and lower classes. And of course this is all dependent on what the authorities do with those taxes which would in turn determine whether they are a one or two term government

[De Dragon]

There are people who are involved in all these sectors, seek their views on the way in which these areas can be made to generate income for the country. Aggressively go after the tax evaders. How is joint venture more taxation? I mean get to the level where the State actually gets a share of the profits of the industry. If a company is paying you 25 % tax on profits, then there is 75 % left on the table. Also with regards to the RR, do you take loans that you don't need just because you can?
Listen, I don't have, or pretend to have the nuts and bolts for these ideas, they are not in my area of expertise, but I would think that is what a competent Government would facilitate through consultation and current expertise. That is what they get paid to do.

[Trinispougla]

And that is the thing Dragon, this is a holding measure. Problem with the capitalist system is it encourages individual rights rather than duty to the economic well being of the rest of citizens in the rest of the country. Which is why yuh could have creeps like Trump and Americans telling India they responsible for global warming. But the price ofvoil could yet rise. Events in the mideast to close to Iran entering the market to be coincidental. Just my opinion. But TT really needs to diversify in a major way in truth. The rapid rail could wait until we have enough money. Although the IDB really operates on the proviso of your ability to pay back the loans over years. They don't ask for the money immediately. This is the reason a poor country like Bolivia could have major infrastructural projects handled by the IDB. For decades starting in the 70s, they were in an abusive relationship with IMF and the world bank. But prudent fiscal management has seen them move from there to being one of the few Latin American states that had any sort of meaningful growth last year. Brazil and Argentina in the exact opposite position. Anyway the IDB only dealing with them because now they believe they will be able to pay the loan back. This is also the reason for years, the IDB signed only MOU's in Haiti and never did any real work. When they are doing a project, they bring all the acountants, engineers, technicians etc. Hence the govtt not really spending a heaping set of money initially but will be overtime and hence that project should wait until we have a little more legroom

[De Dragon]

And that is the thing Dragon, this is a holding measure. Problem with the capitalist system is it encourages individual rights rather than duty to the economic well being of the rest of citizens in the rest of the country. Which is why yuh could have creeps like Trump and Americans telling India they responsible for global warming. But the price ofvoil could yet rise. Events in the mideast to close to Iran entering the market to be coincidental. Just my opinion. But TT really needs to diversify in a major way in truth. The rapid rail could wait until we have enough money. Although the IDB really operates on the proviso of your ability to pay back the loans over years. They don't ask for the money immediately. This is the reason a poor country like Bolivia could have major infrastructural projects handled by the IDB. For decades starting in the 70s, they were in an abusive relationship with IMF and the world bank. But prudent fiscal management has seen them move from there to being one of the few Latin American states that had any sort of meaningful growth last year. Brazil and Argentina in the exact opposite position. Anyway the IDB only dealing with them because now they believe they will be able to pay the loan back. This is also the reason for years, the IDB signed only MOU's in Haiti and never did any real work. When they are doing a project, they bring all the acountants, engineers, technicians etc. Hence the govtt not really spending a heaping set of money initially but will be overtime and hence that project should wait until we have a little more legroom

Sadly, I have to agree. Successive Gov'ts have too much special interests to serve and repay at the cost of national development. Sadly too the present, and even upcoming politicians all seem to be like-minded. I sometimes think that the politics will never change.

[Trinispougla]

Reel talk bro

[gt4tified]

Why spend all that money to finish the Tarouba Stadium when the other stadia around the country are being under-utilized? To prove a point? To run racket?

When the PNM was in Opposition they were (and rightfully so) asking about a legislative agenda...what about now? There are so many legislative reforms that are needed yet all the present government seems to be doing in my opinion is laying blame and doing a poor job at making excuses for their seeming inability to run the country.

[Morpheus]

That stadium and rapid rail could very well wait......

[shogun]

Sadly, I have to agree. Successive Gov'ts have too much special interests to serve and repay at the cost of national development. Sadly too the present, and even upcoming politicians all seem to be like-minded. I sometimes think that the politics will never change.

Yup, money is the ubiquitous corrupting factor of politics world wide. We need to remove it from the process completely. Corporate campaign donations, need to stop. Private donations should have limits and be made public. Campaigns should be given spending limits. All political entities and candidate's campaigns should be given a specified amount of free media air-time. Either something along those lines, or we can expect more of the same.

Boy, thaz why i'm hoping that by some miracle Bernie Sanders wins the Democratic nomination and makes Elizabeth Warren VP in the US presidential race. They seem to be the ONLY candidates anywhere that might start going against the status quo, because this sheit needs to stop.

[ingalook]

You haven't read my statement properly. I said that the decrease in VAT could not be taken in isolation from the other initiatives(I.e the increase in personal allowance ) and that increases the willingness to to pay taxes as happened in 2006. The products that are zero percent rated right now are luxury items. Even with VAT, those items are going to be cheaper than they were before VAT was taken off when it was 15%. As I said the vast majority of those zero rated items are what is frequently called luxury items. Check de no VAT list provided in 2012. Yogurt. Meats soaked in brine, sweetened biscuits etc. When you go to the market,the first thing you go after do not include those items. Essentially is ah set of imported items which levels the playing field for local producers. Tell me is it necessary to have dates,one of the items on the no VAT list? It is also proven that diligent tax collection stimulates economic activity. As i said to a fellow chuner, Belgium pays 42% in taxes which is why very few people, even professionals and technical persons do not own cars. And the story is very similar all across the EU.This is also the reason why even in times of recession, there is always economic activity in Europe hence the ability to maintain and embark on projects that stimulate economic activity like railway building/maintainance, road building which not only benefits the public but also benefits the coffers especially if done with the help of the private sector. Two years ago,Italy rejected Mario Monti's tax increases especially property tax thinking that he was paying off rich investors without thinking that taxes go towards better roads and schools. Hence 2014 and 2015 were some of the worst years for the Italian economy in decades. Boss you tink I want to pay so much taxes dread? But we are in a recession or it may be a period of stagnation(depends on which side of the lenses you are cause the economists in uwi not calling it a recession whereas technocrats from the CB call it such) but in order to maintain, and that is the operative word, the strides we have made, taxation is necessary. Diversification not going to help us now and every economist knows that. The time for that has passed. If it were possible to access a new market tomorrow, the profits from it would only be reaped in the next 3-5 years. In the meantime what are your options? The answer is obvious. No doubt we need alternative revenue streams, but we have 2016 to tackle and we cannot think beyond that. Which leads me to the next point. Technocrats for years have advocated splitting the H&S fund for exactly situations like these. So taxes increase yes, but you have a buffer to at least soften the impact on the lower middle and lower classes. And of course this is all dependent on what the authorities do with those taxes which would in turn determine whether they are a one or two term government

No Tun Tun!

Is not that we talking bout boy... its the 2.5 - 3% REDUCTION in VAT

This would cost the country about $1.5 Billion A YEAR! That $1.5b goes largely into the pockets of retailers/merchants/DOMA

The citizenry would then be asked to pick up this bill via increased taxation, $6000 speeding tickets etc.

[zoom rader]

Anyone following Redman advice on financial matters will soon broke.

[Redman]

Ok I will bite...

ZR...why would you say that?

[De Dragon]

Ok I will bite...

ZR...why would you say that?

He'd prolly recommend restoring the Government to the PP, or at least removing all 'groids from the PNM.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

There are people who are involved in all these sectors, seek their views on the way in which these areas can be made to generate income for the country. Aggressively go after the tax evaders. How is joint venture more taxation? I mean get to the level where the State actually gets a share of the profits of the industry. If a company is paying you 25 % tax on profits, then there is 75 % left on the table. Also with regards to the RR, do you take loans that you don't need just because you can?
Listen, I don't have, or pretend to have the nuts and bolts for these ideas, they are not in my area of expertise, but I would think that is what a competent Government would facilitate through consultation and current expertise. That is what they get paid to do.

The way you criticize one would have thought you did know the nuts and bolts to be honest. It's like arguing without understanding sufficient facts.

When I asked you about JV it was also rhetorical as "getting more of the profits" is just more taxation. Why? The government doesn't do drilling with multinationals for example. The government taxes based on how much crude a company produced as well as taxing again (separately) the revenue stream of the said company. For the government to get more of the profits of the company the government would have to tax more e.g. Raise corporate tax from 35 to 40%.

In your scenario you said if they have 75% profit after paying tax there is more on the table implying you should just take it from said company by increasing their tax. Your proposal is the same thing you criticized initially: "just taxation".

I'll have to disagree with you on RR. At this point we don't know if RR is necessary and feasible or if it isn't so I can't agree with you asking about a loan in the context of it not being needed. Also consider the context of the new highway. A loan wasn't "needed" at the time. However look at where paying immediately out of pocket has left us rather than going thru a loan facility with proper checks and balances.

[Redman]

Ok I will bite...

ZR...why would you say that?

He'd prolly recommend restoring the Government to the PP, or at least removing all 'groids from the PNM.

That would be his solution to everything.

I dont expect an answer-ZR s thing is to make these statements while unable to substantiate,or support them.
he enjoys the attention.

[Redman]

No Tun Tun!

Is not that we talking bout boy... its the 2.5 - 3% REDUCTION in VAT

This would cost the country about $1.5 Billion A YEAR! That $1.5b goes largely into the pockets of retailers/merchants/DOMA

The citizenry would then be asked to pick up this bill via increased taxation, $6000 speeding tickets etc.

Ingalook ... are you saying that the merchant that is selling an item for 115 Vat Inclusive will keep his price at 115 but remit $12.5 vs the $15 and pocket the additional $2.5???