Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

[Dohplaydat]

All I'm saying is that Carnival is a huge part of our economy and job creation and in these times, it's not something we can just disregard and throw away.

Carnival has the potential to be one of our biggest export products and contributors to our economy.

[adnj]

All I'm saying is that Carnival is a huge part of our economy and job creation and in these times, it's not something we can just disregard and throw away.

Carnival has the potential to be one of our biggest export products and contributors to our economy.

The number that you are desperately grasping for is right around 7.5% of GDP. The contribution of all tourism to GDP is dropping and settling in on 7% in the long term.

That means that all tourism is about TT$12B.
Carnival GDP is about TT$1.1B.
Foreign Traveler spending for carnival is about TT$340M.

https://knoema.com/atlas/Trinidad-and-T ... ent-of-GDP

All of this was posted earlier with sources.

[Ben_spanna]

Anyone who’s willing to sign up for carnival 2021 should also sign a contract that after carnival they have to be put into quarantine for a month after and if during that time you have COVID -19 you would have waived your right to any health care... if you think carnival is more important than everyone’s life then you should be willing to risk your own stupid death.

[Chimera]

Anyone who’s willing to sign up for carnival 2021 should also sign a contract that after carnival they have to be put into quarantine for a month after and if during that time you have COVID -19 you would have waived your right to any health care... if you think carnival is more important than everyone’s life then you should be willing to risk your own stupid death.

i like this idea

if you partake in fetes and play mas etc, you should sign a waiver saying you not going to any public health facility for care if you get covid or something similar to it.

[Gladiator]

All I'm saying is that Carnival is a huge part of our economy and job creation and in these times, it's not something we can just disregard and throw away.

Carnival has the potential to be one of our biggest export products and contributors to our economy.

The number that you are desperately grasping for is right around 7.5% of GDP. The contribution of all tourism to GDP is dropping and settling in on 7% in the long term.

That means that all tourism is about TT$12B.
Carnival GDP is about TT$1.1B.
Foreign Traveler spending for carnival is about TT$340M.

https://knoema.com/atlas/Trinidad-and-T ... ent-of-GDP

All of this was posted earlier with sources.

... and you can't just look at what we make alone but what we spend. The difference in the two figures would really be what monetary contributions we gain.

[Cantmis]

Take that carnival money an invest it in agriculture, to much unused land.

[K74T]

Grenada’s Carnival 2020 cancelled

[redmanjp]

Anyone who’s willing to sign up for carnival 2021 should also sign a contract that after carnival they have to be put into quarantine for a month after and if during that time you have COVID -19 you would have waived your right to any health care... if you think carnival is more important than everyone’s life then you should be willing to risk your own stupid death.

even so that only takes care of the Monday & Tuesday- what about all the fetes before? covid go be spreading in all dem fetes then when a fete done u going home to infect your family?

[Gladiator]

Take that carnival money an invest it in agriculture, to much unused land.

You want riot...

A phrase used by a Roman writer to deplore the declining heroism of Romans after the Roman Republic ceased to exist and the Roman Empire began: “Two things only the people anxiously desire — bread and circuses.” The government kept the Roman populace happy by distributing free food and staging huge spectacles.

[redmanjp]

A stitch in time saves nine.

There is no denying that carnival does have its economic place in our calendar.
However given what we are dealing with and the conspiracy theories surrounding we had it this carnival when it was relatively young in it's infectious stages on this side of the world, one can only think what would have should have and could have happened if certiris paribus.

I can categorically say absolutely no. The Forex never makes it way to Trinidad and Tobago in the sums that they maybe proporting to imply.

them carnival band and ting does inject back the USD they make from foreign masqueraders and party goers ?
they all throw same them parties in other countries too and ear forex.
asking for a friend

boy you asking hard questions
i always thought the same but was shame to ask them questions

Lol

Prove it, I'm very involved in the carnival industry and can tell you that you have no idea how much wealth and prosperity carnival creates for tens of thousands of citizens.

Won't it make more sense to keep those tens of thousands of citizens safe from infection next Carnival so you can have them there to spend money for many many future carnivals?

all that wealth and prosperity would be cancelled out by the massive wave of infections afterwards which would then result in a complete shutdown of the country for weeks- to say nothing of the amount of hospitalizations and deaths. so which is worse- a few thousand citizens losing out on a few days income or several 10s of thousands losing their jobs or at least their income for weeks?

[Dohplaydat]

A stitch in time saves nine.

There is no denying that carnival does have its economic place in our calendar.
However given what we are dealing with and the conspiracy theories surrounding we had it this carnival when it was relatively young in it's infectious stages on this side of the world, one can only think what would have should have and could have happened if certiris paribus.

I can categorically say absolutely no. The Forex never makes it way to Trinidad and Tobago in the sums that they maybe proporting to imply.

them carnival band and ting does inject back the USD they make from foreign masqueraders and party goers ?
they all throw same them parties in other countries too and ear forex.
asking for a friend

boy you asking hard questions
i always thought the same but was shame to ask them questions

Lol

Prove it, I'm very involved in the carnival industry and can tell you that you have no idea how much wealth and prosperity carnival creates for tens of thousands of citizens.

Won't it make more sense to keep those tens of thousands of citizens safe from infection next Carnival so you can have them there to spend money for many many future carnivals?

all that wealth and prosperity would be cancelled out by the massive wave of infections afterwards which would then result in a complete shutdown of the country for weeks- to say nothing of the amount of hospitalizations and deaths. so which is worse- a few thousand citizens losing out on a few days income or several 10s of thousands losing their jobs or at least their income for weeks?

Yea a big part of my livelihood is tied to Carnival, but I am saying for sure we CANNOT have Carnival in 2021, it is too risky and too many uncertainties surrounding the lead up to it.

[shake d livin wake d dead]

Banks and credit unions will be vex. No carnival loans

[matr1x]

My grandfather used to work in ministry of finance and even in the 80s-90s the actual economic contribution from carnival is negligible. Less so now

[pugboy]

it circulates into private profits and secondary employment

but is not a direct contributor as many seem to think , ie it’s no oil and gas

My grandfather used to work in ministry of finance and even in the 80s-90s the actual economic contribution from carnival is negligible. Less so now

[zoom rader]

My grandfather used to work in ministry of finance and even in the 80s-90s the actual economic contribution from carnival is negligible. Less so now

It is used to fund money laundering , that's all carnival is use for.

Feed the natives wine and jam and tote the money out .

[No_Name]

It circulates into private profits and secondary employment

But is not a direct contributor as many seem to think , ie it’s no oil and gas

My grandfather used to work in ministry of finance and even in the 80s-90s the actual economic contribution from carnival is negligible. Less so now

Egg-zackly...!!!
So let anything that revolves around it be self sufficient, in other words "fend fuh yuh damn self..."

[pugboy]

yes, it doesn’t help the nation or other taxpayers per se

sure it brings in some tourists and freshwater trinis

It circulates into private profits and secondary employment

But is not a direct contributor as many seem to think , ie it’s no oil and gas

My grandfather used to work in ministry of finance and even in the 80s-90s the actual economic contribution from carnival is negligible. Less so now

Egg-zackly...!!!
So let anything that revolves around it be self sufficient, in other words "fend fuh yuh damn self..."

[Dizzy28]

yes, it doesn’t help the nation or other taxpayers per se

sure it brings in some tourists and freshwater trinis

It circulates into private profits and secondary employment

But is not a direct contributor as many seem to think , ie it’s no oil and gas

My grandfather used to work in ministry of finance and even in the 80s-90s the actual economic contribution from carnival is negligible. Less so now

Egg-zackly...!!!
So let anything that revolves around it be self sufficient, in other words "fend fuh yuh damn self..."

Ent the Greatest Show on Earth supposed to be ramming out Hotels?
But not when its mostly the Diaspora coming back and staying by family.
Once again for edification meem have no issue with Carnival per se. My issue is Daran biggin it up economically. It has to stay but not in the form it is.

Source: Review of the Economy, 2019 Page 70

[MDtuner70]

My grandfather used to work in ministry of finance and even in the 80s-90s the actual economic contribution from carnival is negligible. Less so now

It is used to fund money laundering , that's all carnival is use for.

Feed the natives wine and jam and tote the money out .

I 100 concur with this, I don't think people fathom the extent of money laundering that takes place during the carnival season far less for the laundering that takes place on a whole, but carnival time is heavy gravy...

I liked carnival, played a few years. Some fetes I simply wouldn't miss annually due to awesome past experiences eg the Soakas and one or two of the all inclusives. But at the same time I don't care for it... the years I don't play, I don't miss it at all. More than happy to fly out or hit a north coast etc. One thing I cannot do is not play in a band and still go in town Monday and Tuesday, that is serious pain if you've been a masquerader before lol

On the flip side you can't deny carnival's positive effects as listed by other tuners, as well it's cultural link.

As I get older, I find myself finding more and more negatives about it, grumbling about this and that, finding reasons not to play while chaining up others around me to do the same lol

Based on the uncertainty of covid, my take is NO carnival for 2021

[rspann]

We were certain about it this year and still held Carnival .

[shake d livin wake d dead]

Last night I listening to two band leaders on cnc3. One man actually say every year they incur a loss but they still continue with it nonetheless. My good lord...most amout ah sheit I have ever heard

[pugboy]

haha
it have fete promoters claiming losses for years too
don’t get me wrong throwing a big fete requires a lot of upfront capital but to says years of losses..,

Last night I listening to two band leaders on cnc3. One man actually say every year they incur a loss but they still continue with it nonetheless. My good lord...most amout ah sheit I have ever heard

[Dave]

Most businesses incur known losses. But no one stays in business knowing they would be making losses.
I heard what they said last night, utter Rubbish about staying in business even though they are making losses.

[zoom rader]

Last night I listening to two band leaders on cnc3. One man actually say every year they incur a loss but they still continue with it nonetheless. My good lord...most amout ah sheit I have ever heard

They say that to advoid taxes

[Dohplaydat]

Hotel occupancy was probably down due to rising Airbnb listings. But I know on the whole carnival visitors are becoming less and less. Multitude of reasons, it is rediculously expensive to play mas in Trinidad vs other islands. Better and cheaper flights, hotels in other places as well etc. Many other islands and places are gaining a lot from their carnivals. There is competition, we are definitely not a tourist friendly destination, hence why it's mainly the Trini dispora and other rich islanders who come here for mas.

We need to be better, we need more comfortable mas times, routes, later hours and sexier costumes. Other islands have some wicked parties and mas days. Many trinis already admitting Jamaica carnival could become better than ours.

Only thing that keeps us ahead is soca and our fetes. We are still the Carnival capital. But we are losing ground fast.

Many of you are not Carnival people, I get that. But there's a huge community involved in this and we do need your support, not negativity.

As for the money laundering, ZR should know better. It is very very hard to launder big money through fetes or mas compared to simply a few bars or casinos.

I know it's hard to measure the economic benefits of carnival. But given that it keeps so many people gainly employed and garners a lot of Forex for us, it can't be bad.

Lastly, them businesses who say they in a loss are doing so to avoid corporate taxes. But literally all businesses do so. They still end up paying taxes if they paid themselves big salaries though, remember that.

[Dizzy28]

^ Anecdotally and in support of what you said. One of my co workers who is a dual Trini Canadian lives for Carnival. Every year he hosts US and Canadian diaspora friends/friends of friends (not in his house but he picks them up in the airport, drops them off to where they staying, gets tickets, organize coolers and thing).
He said this year 50 ppl who normally come down or Carnival came for Bachanal Road weekend and didn't bother with Carnival it self as they said it really was too expensive. Not just the costume but the hotel and airfare prices for Carnival week was prohibitive

But further to a point of yours above you still can't prove how it earns us Forex or quantify it?
Earning Daran, Jules and Dean Forex is not the same as earning Trinidad and Tobago Forex.

[pugboy]

Plenty of the usd staying outside
Some of them fetes cater mainly to the freshwater trinis who buy their tickets abroad
Eg brainwash, vale vibe

^ Anecdotally and in support of what you said. One of my co workers who is a dual Trini Canadian lives for Carnival. Every year he hosts US and Canadian diaspora friends/friends of friends (not in his house but he picks them up in the airport, drops them off to where they staying, gets tickets, organize coolers and thing).
He said this year 50 ppl who normally come down or Carnival came for Bachanal Road weekend and didn't bother with Carnival it self as they said it really was too expensive. Not just the costume but the hotel and airfare prices for Carnival week was prohibitive

But further to a point of yours above you still can't prove how it earns us Forex or quantify it?
Earning Daran, Jules and Dean Forex is not the same as earning Trinidad and Tobago Forex.

[SR]

While we debate about carnival and tourism

Do you think the travellers will have money to spend to come to trinidad for carnival?

Expats maybe because they crashing by some family or friends.
But the rest of the real tourists...how many do you think will be able to afford it when economies world wide are taking big dips and people are being laid off or salary cuts....

[jhonnieblue]

Hotel occupancy was probably down due to rising Airbnb listings. But I know on the whole carnival visitors are becoming less and less. Multitude of reasons, it is rediculously expensive to play mas in Trinidad vs other islands. Better and cheaper flights, hotels in other places as well etc. Many other islands and places are gaining a lot from their carnivals. There is competition, we are definitely not a tourist friendly destination, hence why it's mainly the Trini dispora and other rich islanders who come here for mas.

We need to be better, we need more comfortable mas times, routes, later hours and sexier costumes. Other islands have some wicked parties and mas days. Many trinis already admitting Jamaica carnival could become better than ours.

Only thing that keeps us ahead is soca and our fetes. We are still the Carnival capital. But we are losing ground fast.

Many of you are not Carnival people, I get that. But there's a huge community involved in this and we do need your support, not negativity.

As for the money laundering, ZR should know better. It is very very hard to launder big money through fetes or mas compared to simply a few bars or casinos.

I know it's hard to measure the economic benefits of carnival. But given that it keeps so many people gainly employed and garners a lot of Forex for us, it can't be bad.

Lastly, them businesses who say they in a loss are doing so to avoid corporate taxes. But literally all businesses do so. They still end up paying taxes if they paid themselves big salaries though, remember that.

Probably the most accurate post here. Seems most of tuner are not mas people. Fine, may not be for you but don't bash it. There is a whole circular economy around it. It doesn't need the negativity from people like ZR etc.
I've played mas for over 15 years straight and enjoy all aspects of it. Yes the model isn't sustainable at this rate but it up to the various interests groups and stakeholders to set the path correct.
As with covid-19, it's highly unlikely there will be a carbival next year, but perhaps that is needed to set the industry on a better path.

[Dohplaydat]

While we debate about carnival and tourism

Do you think the travellers will have money to spend to come to trinidad for carnival?

Expats maybe because they crashing by some family or friends.
But the rest of the real tourists...how many do you think will be able to afford it when economies world wide are taking big dips and people are being laid off or salary cuts....

Yes I definitely expect this, which is why I'm saying carnival next year doesn't make much sense.