The Religion Discussion

[mamoo_pagal]

^ By ya'll you referring to Hindus right? I have stated before within this thread I believe in a oneness/singularity of God. This one god doesn't care that you call him Jesus, Yahweh, Krishna, Allah, Flying Spaghetti monster. But he is dissapointed when you take his any of his names and wage hate, ignorance, fear and wars all in the name of who is right. But just as with any of the established religions thats an opinion though. (My opinion)

What you are saying sounds very ecumenical and inclusive and is uttered by many in society. But if you are to call "God" by any name, attached to that name would be the requisite teaching that goes along with it. So when you have the God of the Bible saying He is the only way, the Allah of the Quran saying the same, Sikhs, Mormon, etc. while Hindus technically say the monotheists are wrong, their gods are apart of our polytheism. The fact is most religions are mutual exclusive. To say that there is one all embracing god who doesnt regard names would be creating your own god and religion, while passively saying all who dont believe like you, are wrong.

while you constantly come down on AdamB for not understanding the Christian interpretation of your Bible, and his Islamic view is incorrect, why do you choose to do the same to another that you know nothing about?

[Habit7]

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God"

Can a Hindu say the Bible is right when it says this?

[mamoo_pagal]

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God"

Can a Hindu say the Bible is right when it says this?

why only point to hindu's, can any other have a claim, btw that line you quoted only has the terms "Lord" "Me". Where is the particular name you refer too?
If you are to ask such a question, it simply indicates that you know nothing of their philosophy......
plz don't ask questions in ignorance

[Dizzy28]

^ By ya'll you referring to Hindus right? I have stated before within this thread I believe in a oneness/singularity of God. This one god doesn't care that you call him Jesus, Yahweh, Krishna, Allah, Flying Spaghetti monster. But he is dissapointed when you take his any of his names and wage hate, ignorance, fear and wars all in the name of who is right. But just as with any of the established religions thats an opinion though. (My opinion)

What you are saying sounds very ecumenical and inclusive and is uttered by many in society. But if you are to call "God" by any name, attached to that name would be the requisite teaching that goes along with it. So when you have the God of the Bible saying He is the only way, the Allah of the Quran saying the same, Sikhs, Mormon, etc. while Hindus technically say the monotheists are wrong, their gods are apart of our polytheism. The fact is most religions are mutual exclusive. To say that there is one all embracing god who doesnt regard names would be creating your own god and religion, while passively saying all who dont believe like you, are wrong.

Hence there is a difference between Religion and spirituality!! One can choose to believe in a higher presence and can also reject the premise of organized religion.

[Kasey]

If one religion is being called a joke, then all have to be called a joke. But I choose to respect my bretherens' beliefs rather than tell them what they believe is a joke.

[Kasey]

^ By ya'll you referring to Hindus right? I have stated before within this thread I believe in a oneness/singularity of God. This one god doesn't care that you call him Jesus, Yahweh, Krishna, Allah, Flying Spaghetti monster. But he is dissapointed when you take his any of his names and wage hate, ignorance, fear and wars all in the name of who is right. But just as with any of the established religions thats an opinion though. (My opinion)

What you are saying sounds very ecumenical and inclusive and is uttered by many in society. But if you are to call "God" by any name, attached to that name would be the requisite teaching that goes along with it. So when you have the God of the Bible saying He is the only way, the Allah of the Quran saying the same, Sikhs, Mormon, etc. while Hindus technically say the monotheists are wrong, their gods are apart of our polytheism. The fact is most religions are mutual exclusive. To say that there is one all embracing god who doesnt regard names would be creating your own god and religion, while passively saying all who dont believe like you, are wrong.

You say no other text is more substatiated than the bible, but by making this statement, you CLEARLY only know the bible. How can one take your point seriously? Making that statement says that you do not know the MOST SIMPLEST teachings of hinduism...........that THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD.

If you do not have a clue about other teachings, how can you say your belief is 'righter' than the others?

[Kasey]

by logic.. nothing can be infinite. and that is proven by the limitation of calculators. they cant handle a calculation with infinity in it.

Yunno I now see this? Laawwwd!!!!
Tusty, your English is ok, but statements like these really begs one to question the seriousness of your arguments, not to mention the IQ level.

[Habit7]

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God"

Can a Hindu say the Bible is right when it says this?

why only point to hindu's, can any other have a claim, btw that line you quoted only has the terms "Lord" "Me". Where is the particular name you refer too?
If you are to ask such a question, it simply indicates that you know nothing of their philosophy......
plz don't ask questions in ignorance

Hinduism is the world largest polytheistic religion, that is why I reference them. LORD in uppercase in the Bible refers to God's Hebrew name YHWH. I am sorry if I caused any undue offence, but if there is any truth in Hinduism, it would render Judaism, Christianity and Islam false. My question was meant to lead to that conclusion. Most questions are asked in ignorance.

[Dizzy28]

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God"

Can a Hindu say the Bible is right when it says this?

why only point to hindu's, can any other have a claim, btw that line you quoted only has the terms "Lord" "Me". Where is the particular name you refer too?
If you are to ask such a question, it simply indicates that you know nothing of their philosophy......
plz don't ask questions in ignorance

Hinduism is the world largest polytheistic religion, that is why I reference them. LORD in uppercase in the Bible refers to God's Hebrew name YHWH. I am sorry if I caused any undue offence, but if there is any truth in Hinduism, it would render Judaism, Christianity and Islam false. My question was meant to lead to that conclusion. Most questions are asked in ignorance.

So you have formulated a Hypothesis and then a Null hypothesis based on a topic you have very limited knowledge off?

AFAIK Hinduism is itself a term that is controversial. The term Hindu and even the name India came originally from the word Indus (river now in Pakistan). It was eventually used in mainstream to mean most anything attributed to the people of the subcontinent. Today Hinduism encompasses much more than a religion but it is an entire way of life - customs, culture and behaviour.

A more proper term should be based on what school of thought one follows. There are essentially the schools of Vaishnavism, Shaivism, Shaktism, and Smartism. In Trinidad and Tobago you may be aware of one type of representation of Hinduism because most Trinidad Hindus are Vaishnavites (worship Vishnu and his various forms) hence the importance of the Ramayana here.

However do not mistake this for a representation of Hinduism as a whole. The literature guiding Hinduism should be attributed more to the Vedas, Puranas and Upanishads (Some of these books predates the Bible and Quran by at least 1,000+ years)

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ some interesting reads here

Carl Sagan, in his book, Cosmos asserts that the Dance of Nataraja (Tandava) signifies the cycle of evolution and destruction of the cosmic universe (Big Bang Theory): "It is the clearest image of the activity of God which any art or religion can boast of." Modern physics has shown that the rhythm of creation and destruction is not only manifest in the turn of the seasons and in the birth and death of all living creatures, but also the very essence of inorganic matter.
For modern physicists, then, Shiva's dance is the dance of subatomic matter. Hundreds of years ago, Indian artist created visual images of dancing Shiva's in a beautiful series of bronzes. Today, physicist have used the most advanced technology to portray the pattern of the cosmic dance. Thus, the metaphor of the cosmic dance unifies, ancient religious art and modern physics. The Hindus, according to Monier-Williams, were Spinozists more than 2,000 years before the advent of Spinoza, and Darwinians many centuries before Darwin and Evolutionists many centuries before the doctrine of Evolution was accepted by scientists of the present age.
"The Hindu religion is the only one of the world's great faiths dedicated to the idea that the Cosmos itself undergoes an immense, indeed an infinite, number of deaths and rebirths. It is the only religion in which the time scales correspond, to those of modern scientific cosmology. Its cycles run from our ordinary day and night to a day and night of Brahma, 8.64 billion years long. Longer than the age of the Earth or the Sun and about half the time since the Big Bang. And there are much longer time scales still."

Huston Smith - "While the West was still thinking, perhaps, of 6,000 years old universe – India was already envisioning ages and eons and galaxies as numerous as the sands of the Ganges. The Universe so vast that modern astronomy slips into its folds without a ripple.”

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Vedic_science

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Regarding the chronology of religious texts:

The oldest known religious texts are Pyramid texts of Ancient Egypt that date to 2400-2300 BCE. The earliest form of the Phoenician alphabet found to date is the inscription on the sarcophagus of King Ahiram of Byblos. ( The Sumerian Temple Hymns ). The Epic of Gilgamesh from Sumeria is also one of the earliest literary works dating to 2150-2000 BCE, that includes various mythological figures. The Rigveda of Hinduism is proposed to have been composed between 1700–1100 BCE making it possibly the world's oldest religious text still in use.

The oldest portions of the Zoroastrian Avesta are believed to have been transmitted orally for centuries before they found written form, and although widely differing dates for Gathic Avestan (the language of the oldest texts) have been proposed, scholarly consensus floats at around 1000 BCE.[citation needed]

The majority of scholars agree that the Torah's composition took place over centuries. From the late 19th century there was a general consensus around the documentary hypothesis, which suggests that the five books were created c.450 BCE by combining four originally independent sources, known as the Jahwist, or J (about 900 BCE), the Elohist, or E (about 800 BCE), the Deuteronomist, or D, (about 600 BCE), and the Priestly source, or P (about 500 BC).

The first scripture printed for wide distribution to the masses was The Diamond Sutra, a Buddhist scripture, and is the earliest recorded example of a dated printed text, bearing the Chinese calendar date for 11 May 868 CE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_text

[Habit7]

Dizzy28 that being understood...what are the theological (study of God) views of Hinduism that are reconcilable with Christianity?

[MG Man]

habit7, sorry to burst your bubble, but hinduism teaches monotheism

[Dizzy28]

Dizzy28 that being understood...what are the theological (study of God) views of Hinduism that are reconcilable with Christianity?

Comparative Theology is not my field of study so you have asked a question I do not have easy answers for. However based on MY experiential learning having gone to a Hindu primary school and a Presbyterian secondary school I can only state one similarity, that being the oneness of God.

[Habit7]

*bubble burst*

Hinduism’s Many Gods
Published: Thursday, September 13, 2012
Sat Maharaj



The 7th Annual Hindu Mandir Executives’ Conference was held in San Jose California, USA on August 17—19, 2012. Out of this conference many Hindu publications have emerged. In one publication Mandir Vani, (The Voice of Hindu Temples,) the message of the Maha Sabha of T&T is published. It reads: “A temple is not a building. It is the abode of the Lord. A temple’s strength is not in the bricks. Its fortitude comes from the dedication of its members. A temple is not held together by plaster and mud. Its glue is the piety and devotion of the community. A temple is not simply a place we visit. It should be the axis around which our lives revolve,” wrote Swami Chidananda Saraswati.

“By coming together and working together to ensure that programmes are implemented within the temples and also between/amongst the temples for the youth, you will bring even greater benefit to all Hindus living in the USA. “Creating an environment where the youth understand, appreciate and love their Hindu culture is a crucial need today, as is uniting all Hindu temples under one umbrella. When we are all united in the name of Sanatan Dharma, we can truly bring the message of peace, harmony and universal brotherhood to the world.”

Many aspects of Hinduism seem to confuse the average westerner who is steeped in the Christian traditions. The conference provided answers to some of these questions and we produce hereunder answers to the perception that there are numerous Gods in Hinduism: “Hindus believe in one Supreme God who created the universe. He is all-pervasive. He created many Gods, highly advanced spiritual beings, to be His helpers.

Contrary to prevailing misconceptions, Hindus all worship a one Supreme Being, though by different names. This is because the peoples of India with different languages and cultures have understood the one God in their own distinct way. Through history there arose four principal Hindu denominations—Saivism, Shaktism, Vaishnavism and Smartism. For Saivites, God is Siva. For Shaktas, Goddess Shakti is supreme. For Vaishnavites, Lord Vishnu is God. For Smartas—who see all Deities as reflections of the One God—the choice of Deity is left to the devotee.

This liberal Smarta perspective is well known, but it is not the prevailing Hindu view. Due to this diversity, Hindus are profoundly tolerant of other religions, respecting the fact that each has its own pathway to the one God. One of the unique understandings in Hinduism is that God is not far away, living in a remote heaven, but is inside each and every soul, in the heart and consciousness, waiting to be discovered. This knowing that God is always with us gives us hope and courage. Knowing the One Great God in this intimate and experiential way is the goal of Hindus spiritually.

Hinduism is both monotheistic and henotheistic. Hindus were never polytheistic, in the sense that there are many equal Gods. Henotheism (literally “one God”) better defines the Hindu view. It means the worship of one God without denying the existence of other Gods.

We Hindus believe in the one all-pervasive God who energises the entire universe. We can see Him in the light shining out of the eyes of humans and all creatures. This view of God as existing in and giving life to all things is called panentheism. It is different from pantheism, which is the belief that God is the natural universe and nothing more.

It is also different from strict theism which says God is only above the world, apart and transcendent. Panentheism is an all-encompassing concept. It says that God is both in the world and beyond it, both immanent and transcendent. That is the highest Hindu view.

Hindus also believe in many Gods who perform various functions, like executives in a large corporation. These should not be confused with the Supreme God. These Divinities are highly advanced beings who have specific duties and powers—not unlike the heavenly spirits, overlords or archangels revered in other faiths. Each denomination worships the Supreme God and its own pantheon of divine beings.

What is sometimes confusing to non-Hindus is that Hindus of various sects may call the one God by many different names, according to their denomination or regional tradition. Truth for the Hindu has many names, but that does not make for many truths. Hinduism gives us the freedom to approach God in our own way, encouraging a multiplicity of paths, not asking for conformity to just one.

There is much confusion about this subject, even among Hindus. Learn the right terms and the subtle differences in them, and you can explain the profound ways Hindus look at divinity. Others will be delighted with the richness of the Indian concepts of God.

You may wish to mention that some Hindus believe only in the formless Absolute Reality as God. Others believe in God as personal Lord and Creator. This freedom makes the understanding of God in Hinduism, the oldest living religion, the richest in all of earth’s existing faiths.”

Satnarayan Maharaj
Secretary General
Sanatan Dharma Maha Sabha

http://www.guardian.co.tt/columnist/201 ... -many-gods

Uncle Sat explains it well

But henotheism is still irreconcilable with:

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God"
Can a Hindu say the Bible is right when it says this?

[MG Man]

dude, the bible is irreconcilable with itself
your god so effing clueless, he built World 1.0 with so many inherent bugs, he had to wipe it clean and come back with a reboot..............then had to install the Jesus 1.0 patch to try and fix World 1.0.1

[djaggs]

I have avoided this discussion for a long time because to me its really senseless especially when you give someone a red apple and they turn around and tell you its green. Anyway, the quoranwas written long after the bible no one writing the quoran had any contact with anyone who was present during the life of Jesus and so have no merit to claim any knowledge of the events that took place. The quoran wasnt written until 200 years passed since Muhammed's death. The Quoran has been subject to a process known as abrogation where it is re written and changed, these changes could be to serve political ends or other reasons. This means that what is written is not necessarily wht Mohammed said. Arabic was not a written language during the life of Mohammed. This is contrary to the Bible where it was forbidden to change anything in it.

Revelations 22:18 says - 18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming quickly." Amen.

Look at this video below about the oldest copy of the quoran that was found. I dont know how to paste these videos from You tube, it doesnt seem to be working, but you can copy and paste the link here:

[Kasey]

dude, the bible is irreconcilable with itself
your god so effing clueless, he built World 1.0 with so many inherent bugs, he had to wipe it clean and come back with a reboot..............then had to install the Jesus 1.0 patch to try and fix World 1.0.1

Now thats funny.

But seriously, Not to sound offensive like metalgear, Christianity and the Bible does have MANY inconsistencies.

Any of you remember 'darklordtnt'?

[Habit7]

Jesus coming to earth wasn't an ambulance rushing to the scene of an accident. Everything is a according to His ordained plan, so that He will display His attributes ranging from love, peace and forgiveness to justice, holiness and wrath. Nothing has ever caught God by surprise.

[Daran]

LOL at this conversation.

Turbo Tusty is holding my old view that all religions can be reconciled and essentially be beneficial if we take them as more analogous as opposed to rigid. Therefore, allowing scientific principles to not be impaired by religious myths.

However, for this to be done since it relegates religions to the "wise old fairy tale" status which our fundamentalist will rebel, perhaps violently.

When you look at religious teachings, you see a fundamental part of their propaganda is for you to reject all others and obey this one 'true' religion. How can a religion like Hinduism (which I somewhat respect) be accepted by Shiites or Pentecostals?

Off topic now..

AdamB, Habit7 and others.....in your own brief words, why does a modern society need Religion?

[rocknrolla]

yup. theyre all right. all hold the meat of the truth. but the majority of their followers are misguided due to poor interpretation and not doing their own homework.

ill have to include the local spiritual shouter baptiste as well. they are on to something. they understand a core component which i think they follow very well to accessing divine revelations. not all of them of course. but that core component is devotion and reverance in prayer. allowing the spirit to flow stronger thru the body.

remember spirit and flesh is said to be at war. the key is bringing a harmony between the 2. there are a variety of ways to do this. meditation is one. devoting ur entire being in prayer while reaching out to ur higher power is another.. among others. but they all accomplish the same process.. at least a temporary ceasefire between flesh and spirit where more is revealed to u for opening ur mind and ur eyes to perceive. in eastern religions there is a term called samadhi, buddha's enlightenment.. all the same thing, referred to in the jewish torah in codified form, which makes the connection permanent.

check out the video i posted earlier from manly p hall. it's a sort of audiobook. but in it he explains the concepts as scholars of the past have deciphered. at the very least on listening to his speech.. u will have an understanding of how the flesh and spirit interact. u might have to listen to it more than once. but the general premise places u directly on the path. an initiation for those who choose to walk it. it is difficult, challenging, but also fun and rewarding path. it is above religious dogma. it will favour no religion over another.

it really is not very important which name u call ur God. just as long as the symbolic reference that is conjured in ur mind when u say it is of ur creator. the supreme being.

[Daran]

dude, the bible is irreconcilable with itself
your god so effing clueless, he built World 1.0 with so many inherent bugs, he had to wipe it clean and come back with a reboot..............then had to install the Jesus 1.0 patch to try and fix World 1.0.1

doh forget Noah_x40 antivirus which had to be run to rid the world of the spyware and sh*t that the own programmer supposedly created.

[MG Man]

Jesus coming to earth wasn't an ambulance rushing to the scene of an accident. Everything is a according to His ordained plan, so that He will display His attributes ranging from love, peace and forgiveness to justice, holiness and wrath. Nothing has ever caught God by surprise.

ah yes, I see...so god knows when that woman is going to be brutally raped or that child abducted and sold as a sex slave
gotcha

[rocknrolla]

yeah.. but we cant even create a buggy version like he did. he is still a boss.

[Daran]

yup. theyre all right. all hold the meat of the truth. but the majority of their followers are misguided due to poor interpretation and not doing their own homework.

ill have to include the local spiritual shouter baptiste as well. they are on to something. they understand a core component which i think they follow very well to accessing divine revelations. not all of them of course. but that core component is devotion and reverance in prayer. allowing the spirit to flow stronger thru the body.

remember spirit and flesh is said to be at war. the key is bringing a harmony between the 2. there are a variety of ways to do this. meditation is one. devoting ur entire being in prayer while reaching out to ur higher power is another.. among others. but they all accomplish the same process.. at least a temporary ceasefire between flesh and spirit where more is revealed to u for opening ur mind and ur eyes to perceive. in eastern religions there is a term called samadhi, buddha's enlightenment.. all the same thing, referred to in the jewish torah in codified form, which makes the connection permanent.

check out the video i posted earlier from manly p hall. it's a sort of audiobook. but in it he explains the concepts as scholars of the past have deciphered. at the very least on listening to his speech.. u will have an understanding of how the flesh and spirit interact. u might have to listen to it more than once. but the gereal premise places u directly on the path. an initiation for those who choose to walk it. it is difficult, challenging, but also fun and rewarding path. it is above religious dogma. it will favour no religion over another.

it really is not very important which name u call ur God. just as long as the symbolic reference that is conjured in ur mind when u say it is of ur creator. the supreme being.

I honestly, like this approach. Jus sayn it won't sit well with religious folk.

What are your views on Rastafarianism, Wiccans, Satanist and Scientology?

[MG Man]

yeah.. but we cant even create a buggy version like he did. he is still a boss.

why would we want to?
Only a sick, demented, perverse mind could conjure up this

[rocknrolla]

by logic.. nothing can be infinite. and that is proven by the limitation of calculators. they cant handle a calculation with infinity in it.

Yunno I now see this? Laawwwd!!!!
Tusty, your English is ok, but statements like these really begs one to question the seriousness of your arguments, not to mention the IQ level.

i know a few in the thread want to single that out. but i stand by that statement and the rest associated with it. ur perception of my point has missed the nail. if u like i can explain it to u. ill have to type out a mini crash course in the basic flaws of mathematics, it's relation to logical thinking and its lack of consciousness.

regarding my iq... let's just assume that im not stupid.

[Habit7]

ah yes, I see...so god knows when that woman is going to be brutally raped or that child abducted and sold as a sex slave
gotcha

Yeah He also sees you insulting Him and He doesnt respond in unbridled anger as you or I might, but He is slow to anger, giving you more time to repent. However, we all will die and face judgement: rapist, abductor, blasphemer, etc. sins will either be paid for by Jesus on the cross or by themselves in Hell.

[16 cycles]

what be the judgement for the victims of crimes on judgment day?

are they judged equally as the perpetrators & everyone else or rewarded for keeping faith?

[tardissubie]

So all the talk of the universe being light years wide and so many other solar systems and whether or not they know of a "God"... Is it expected that one would blindly believe the estimation of the universe and entertain the believe that it is as vast and expansive, without proof. How is one certain that mankind is simply being deluded just as many assume religion and God to be fiction or a mental conception of man?

Seeing is believing, have you ever been in outer space or seen a manifestation of God?

Sent from 1500 lightyears away using God's Creation App!