The Religion Discussion

[Habit7]

At what point did it cease for Muhammad and his followers to kill in the name of Islam to now where those who kill in name of Islam are "misguided"?.

I can't help but feel that my question is not sufficiently answered. Do you know the specific answer?

And dont misunderstand my motives, you might be working very hard in your religion but that does not absolve you from defending the claims you are making. You seemed very ept to regurgitate the arguments of your Islamic apologists (most of whom I havent respond to because it is better to bring the issues one by one and we will address them) without any regard for the apparent ridicule of Christians they may have. This isnt a tea party, this is a discussion, there is no need to be insulting but you have to have thick skin. You cannot want to dish out challenges and cry foul when you get them.

[rocknrolla]

exactly.. we all ridicule eachother.. but we draw the line at killing. i think ppl are right here. the silence on this behaviour in the mulsim world is deafening. lightly defended but only so much as not to be incriminated.

fair enough christianity was spread by the sword. so is it a battle for which religion dominates the globe cuz christianity currently dominates? noone will win.

these are rhetorical questions. so just leave them. islam does seem to have a problem with humility along the path. but yall keep fighting. ur all blind. so some blinds following other blinds to fight the other blinds following other blinds. if u werent blind u would not fight, or kill others because 'they have a lower spiritual inclination than you' or 'they insult ur God'.

ppl should reflect inwardly and live their spiritual life and aspirations personally until attainment. debates and discussions are good for helping to remove contradictions that in one's belief system, helping to bring all involved closer to understanding the final point. while everyone focusses on pointing the finger, theyre all stagnated in growth, or at least not growing as fast as they can if they focussed on themselves and their own flaws. but it would seem we only have eyes for the flaws in others, living in denial and not asking the question

"what are my flaws and how can i become better"

[metalgear2095]

Creation of the Heaven and Earth

Which one was created first? As you will see in the verses below, Allah at one time says that Earth was created first and another time he says that the Heaven was created first.

Quran 2: 29 It is He who hath created for you all things that are on Earth; THEN He turned to the Heaven and made them into seven firmaments (Skies)….

Quran 79: 27 - 30 Are you the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built? He raised the height thereof and ordered it; and He has made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morning thereof. And after that, He spread (flattened) the earth
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[metalgear2095]

Why Allah Created Stars!

Quran gives us further scientific knowledge by telling us that the stars were created by Allah as missiles to throw at the devils:

Quran 67: 5 And We have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans…

Quran 37: 6-8 We have indeed decorated the lower heaven (sky) with beauty (in) the stars, (for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans. So they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side.

Thus, the stars are nothing but missiles to throw at devils so that they may not eavesdrop on the heavenly council. Once again we find how Allah was high on his superstitious weirdness.
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[mamoo_pagal]

I cant speak for those who chose the violent path. Also... The "FEW" are just that if in comparison, there are..as a GUESS lets say 1 billion Muslims but 1 million are terrorists? and please know that i am NOT condoning terrorism or trying to make it seem minuscule. How do you know the number of muslim terrorists will continue to grow and at what rate? Is it the same as saying crime in Trinidad will continue to grow or the race of criminals will continue to be more afro trinis than any other race?

For many people around the world, not just you, many people hear the word JIHAD and make assumptions..i posted a reply on that as well and im sure its been already forgotten but anyway, they hear Muslim and assume they are terrorists, pedophiles, extremists etc...
You believe just as much propaganda about non-muslims by such an ignorant statement as this

I can only imagine how difficult it must be for america muslims who try to exist in america after 9/11 and most recently the Boston bombings.. and i wonder if it is similar to how africans used to feel before people like martin luther king.
Whose fault is that if people from the muslim community is deemed responsible? You can't compare them to africans, the african never terrorize anyone

You think its easy following islam in a world where most people try to change your mind by ridiculing you and your way of life and u constantly have to defend it? You think its easy when they mock you and laugh at u and make jokes about how u are dressed?
when you, AdamB and others constantly come down on this Christians in this thread aren't you not doing the same?
islam is FULL of rules. I gave up alot bc I believe that islam is the truth..life is so much easier if you dont care too much about halaal/ haram and conducting urself in an islamic way, avoiding parties, music, alcohol etc.
Every time I go to the grocery, I check to see if what Im buying is permissable in islam...u think thats fun? it takes up alot of time but I do it bc I want to follow the religion I believe is correct. I believe that there is so much evil in this world and immorality that following a religion that has alot of rules, makes sense to me.

Other people behave like...that scene from the movie 'the 10 commandments where the people just want to free up and have a good time, well if that is your choice, good for u. Similarily, I think the best schools in trini have the most rules..ever wondered about that?
Lol, so what you just automatically judge someone by saying they want to "free up", where have I said I condone that? There are many who don't condone that behavior, it is not limited to Islam. The best schools have the most rules? Please...........they best schools have the most effective rules there is a huge difference! BTW it depends heavily on the quality of students attending

sigh............set your emotions asides and understand the information. You are the one making assumptions of people when they hear the word JIHAD. You are only classing the muslim terrorist, but what about the average muslim in some parts of the world who are very aggressive because of what they were taught? I posted a pic earlier with some women holding a banner, they won't fall under the category of terrorist, they will be seen as a normal follower of Islam, and for some reason they want to kill (aggressive reaction). There seems to be a level of aggressiveness associated with Islam, why is this?

Why do you just automatically assume that because someone takes an objective view of religion they are automatically against it? come on grow up, there are some glaring facts that needs to be addressed. Islam is becoming highly politicized and what is being done from those who know it is wrong? You didn't answer many of the question I posted before, and this is not to bash you or Islam, understand that. Do you think you have the same quality of life you enjoy now if you were in a purely Islamic state? Doesn't the liberties offered to you by being in an independent, republic country assures your quality of life?

[Sacchetto Boutique]

For many people around the world, not just you, many people hear the word JIHAD and make assumptions..i posted a reply on that as well and im sure its been already forgotten but anyway, they hear Muslim and assume they are terrorists, pedophiles, extremists etc...

I can only imagine how difficult it must be for america muslims who try to exist in america after 9/11 and most recently the Boston bombings.. and i wonder if it is similar to how africans used to feel before people like martin luther king.

I think what mamoo_pagal is saying is that black people were not flying planes into buildings and had suicide bombers in the name of the Black Power movement.

Similarily, I think the best schools in trini have the most rules..ever wondered about that?

which school has more rules than which?

Duane, I understand that! but why is it when a person hears the phrase muslim terrorist, they automatically assume ALL msulims are terrorists? bc from all the replies in this thread, i've read, "you people" refering to muslims...just read turbotursty's reply and you will see what im saying.

As for the rules..perhaps I said that wrong..all schools have rules, proable the same rules too, but not all schools ENFORCE the rules. I went to couva sec for 5yrs and then CAPS for 2yrs. When I compare the two schools, Couva Sec was way stricter in enforcing the rules. CAPS was a real party kinda school for the period I went there. My best friend was a convent girl who came into CAPS with 9destinctions but got low grades in CAPS at A'levels. The system was so different. In couva sec, when school was finished at 2:30 u had to find urself home bc if any teacher saw u outside in ur uniform, was real pressure. Now, 4:30 kids still in pos liming

[metalgear2095]

All over the world Muslims are killing innocent people and yet you continue to lie to yourself and try to lie to the rest of us about Islam being about peace. Would you say the same if Trinidad was an Islamic state?

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[16 cycles]

everytime a terrorist act is successful and the perpetrators are identified to belong to a particular faith, that religion takes a hit....its only so much the world would accept before the tipping point....

those belonging to that faith should intervene to stop the terrorism done in the name of their religion to protect such a beautiful religion / culture ....

...that the only thing necessary for evil to exist is for good people to remain silent....

[maj. tom]

All over the world extremists kill innocent people. OK? I doubt very much that the girl above has killed anyone despite her beliefs. I doubt she would get anything but angry and upset if someone wrote something that violated her beliefs. She respects our freedom of speech culture and understands it.

Extremists all over the world use religion as a shallow motive with many underlying psychological, cultural, economic and social problems. There are even atheist extremists, take the entire communist era and the millions imprisoned and murdered across the Soviet bloc since Stalin; take China right now. Islamist extremists are to Islam like the Westboro Baptist Church to the modern Christianity church views.

[Sacchetto Boutique]

At what point did it cease for Muhammad and his followers to kill in the name of Islam to now where those who kill in name of Islam are "misguided"?.

I can't help but feel that my question is not sufficiently answered. Do you know the specific answer?

And dont misunderstand my motives, you might be working very hard in your religion but that does not absolve you from defending the claims you are making. You seemed very ept to regurgitate the arguments of your Islamic apologists (most of whom I haven't respond to because it is better to bring the issues one by one and we will address them) without any regard for the apparent ridicule of Christians they may have. This isn't a tea party, this is a discussion, there is no need to be insulting but you have to have thick skin. You cannot want to dish out challenges and cry foul when you get them.

At the time of Muhammad, verses were revealed even during their times of war. I can only assume that the violent verses in the bible might suggest something similar. Please DO NOT quote one piece of a verse while neglecting the entire verse to understand what the Quran is saying.

I will explain one verse:

Quran 9:5
Islam-critics only post 9:5:
“Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” (PICKTHAL Translation, Quran 9:5)

Let’s read the verse in context 9:1-9:5:
Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty. Travel freely in the land four months, and know that ye cannot escape Allah and that Allah will confound the disbelievers (in His Guidance). And a proclamation from Allah and His messenger to all men on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage that Allah is free from obligation to the idolaters, and (so is) His messenger. So, if ye repent, it will be better for you; but if ye are averse, then know that ye cannot escape Allah. Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve, Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him). Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (PICKTHAL Translation, Quran 9:1-5)

This verses is always quoted out of context, they never post 9:6 or from 9:1 to 9:6. If we read from start it states that there was a treaty, which the Pagans of Arab broke. Thus Allah gave them 4 months as 9:2 states in order to amend the treaty. Verse 9:4 states that the punishment prescribed in 9:5 is ONLY to those who broke the treaty and NOT to those who abided by the treaty. Therefore the context of 9:5 is of war with the pagan Arabs who broke the treaty yet refused to amend it in 4 months.

Naturally, in war violence is expected. If a war is declared between Country A and Country B, because country B broke the treaty and refused to amend, then if president of country A states “wherever you find soldiers of Country B, you kill them and besiege them”, no one would truly find much wrong in that statement.

Killing in war is nothing peculiar, and there is yet to be a war where soldiers hugged and kissed each other. In additions, Dr. Zakir Naik writes in his book “Replies to the most common questions asked by non-muslims“:

“4. Verse 9:5 quoted to boost morale of Muslims during battle
Similarly in Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 5 the Qur’an says, “Kill the Mushriqs [pagans] where ever you find them”, during a battle to boost the morale of the Muslim soldiers. What the Qur’an is telling Muslim soldiers is, don’t be afraid during battle; wherever you find the enemies kill them.”

Islam-critics remain shy of posting the next verse, 9:6, as it contains the answer to their deception:

“And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not. (PICKTHAL Translation, Quran 9:6)

Quran does not only say that you release those who seek protection but it goes even further and states to protect them! In the present international scenario, even a kind, peace-loving army General, during a battle, may let the enemy soldiers go free, if they want peace. But which army General will ever tell his soldiers, that if the enemy soldiers want peace during a battle, don’t just let them go free, but also escort them to a place of security?

Hence even in war Quran promotes peace.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

For many people around the world, not just you, many people hear the word JIHAD and make assumptions..i posted a reply on that as well and im sure its been already forgotten but anyway, they hear Muslim and assume they are terrorists, pedophiles, extremists etc...

I can only imagine how difficult it must be for america muslims who try to exist in america after 9/11 and most recently the Boston bombings.. and i wonder if it is similar to how africans used to feel before people like martin luther king.

I think what mamoo_pagal is saying is that black people were not flying planes into buildings and had suicide bombers in the name of the Black Power movement.

Similarily, I think the best schools in trini have the most rules..ever wondered about that?

which school has more rules than which?

Duane, I understand that! but why is it when a person hears the phrase muslim terrorist, they automatically assume ALL msulims are terrorists? bc from all the replies in this thread, i've read, "you people" refering to muslims...just read turbotursty's reply and you will see what im saying.

no one is saying all muslims are terrorists, but why are there Muslim Terrorists? Why are there no Hindu Terrorists?

As for the rules..perhaps I said that wrong..all schools have rules, proable the same rules too, but not all schools ENFORCE the rules. I went to couva sec for 5yrs and then CAPS for 2yrs. When I compare the two schools, Couva Sec was way stricter in enforcing the rules. CAPS was a real party kinda school for the period I went there. My best friend was a convent girl who came into CAPS with 9destinctions but got low grades in CAPS at A'levels. The system was so different. In couva sec, when school was finished at 2:30 u had to find urself home bc if any teacher saw u outside in ur uniform, was real pressure. Now, 4:30 kids still in pos liming

well if they have the same rules then your point about Islam having more rules makes it better is not coherent.

[Habit7]

All over the world extremists kill innocent people. OK? I doubt very much that the girl above has killed anyone despite her beliefs. I doubt she would get anything but angry and upset if someone wrote something that violated her beliefs. She respects our freedom of speech culture and understands it.

Extremists all over the world use religion as a shallow motive with many underlying psychological, cultural, economic and social problems. There are even atheist extremists, take the entire communist era and the millions imprisoned and murdered across the Soviet bloc since Stalin; take China right now. Islamist extremists are to Islam like the Westboro Baptist Church to the modern Christianity church views.

The difference is the Bible doesnt teach what the Westboro Baptist Church practises, but condemns it.

The Quran and Hadiths teach what Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood, etc practise and promises reward.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

everytime a terrorist act is successful and the perpetrators are identified to belong to a particular faith, that religion takes a hit....its only so much the world would accept before the tipping point....

those belonging to that faith should intervene to stop the terrorism done in the name of their religion to protect such a beautiful religion / culture ....

...that the only thing necessary for evil to exist is for good people to remain silent....

it was stated before, if Muslims treated terrorists who claim to carry out their act in the name of Islam the same way they treat people who draw cartoons of Muhammad, there would be no Muslim Terrorists!

[Sacchetto Boutique]

All over the world Muslims are killing innocent people and yet you continue to lie to yourself and try to lie to the rest of us about Islam being about peace. Would you say the same if Trinidad was an Islamic state?

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see, this is what im talking about..u said 'muslims' but thats incorrect to say that..say 'some muslims'.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

The difference is the Bible doesnt teach what the Westboro Baptist Church practises, but condemns it.

Westboro's biggest fight is against gays and homosexuality.
They also say Catholics, Presbyterians and Anglicans are not really Christians or that they are "doing it wrong"
You supported those same points in this thread. Though you may not have been as vile in the commentary as Fred Phelps is.

[Sacchetto Boutique]

All over the world extremists kill innocent people. OK? I doubt very much that the girl above has killed anyone despite her beliefs. I doubt she would get anything but angry and upset if someone wrote something that violated her beliefs. She respects our freedom of speech culture and understands it.

Extremists all over the world use religion as a shallow motive with many underlying psychological, cultural, economic and social problems. There are even atheist extremists, take the entire communist era and the millions imprisoned and murdered across the Soviet bloc since Stalin; take China right now. Islamist extremists are to Islam like the Westboro Baptist Church to the modern Christianity church views.

The difference is the Bible doesnt teach what the Westboro Baptist Church practises, but condemns it.

The Quran and Hadiths teach what Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood, etc practise and promises reward.

Says who? U made that assumption just like many others who again....have mis-interpreted the verses of the quran. Why are people only quoting parts of a verse and ignoring the whole verse..is it bc they do not want to understand? is it because they feel comfort in ignorance?

There are scholars who are trying to do their part on educating people about islam and NON violence but I cant be held accountable for the ones who decide that they want to be violent. I can only educate myself and others who are willing to understand.

I know that there are non-muslims who are decent human beings and my intention was not to insult anyone. I have not been trying to insult Christianity. I just believe that non-muslims do not really understand islam and thats fine.

My point about the rules is much like this; I believe that Jannah(paradise) is such an amazing place that only the few who are willing to practise the hadith and follow the word of God, will enter there. There are many rules, laws which make this life feel like a prison to the believer but those who do not follow the rules, this life is a paradise to them. Perhaps i am not explaining it proplery but I hope someone will understand.

[bluefete]

If anyone reads both the Bible and the Qu'ran, you will come away feeling that they are very similar in their beliefs. Especially comparing the Old Testament to the Suras in the Qu'ran which deal with reasons for killing people.

There is no doubt that Christianity which started as a persecuted religion became eventually a persecuting religion in the name of God. Just reference the Inquisition for example.

Today the same can be applied to Islam. It is a religion of peace but like the church many years ago, its message, today, has been distorted by Mullahs, Imams and others who each have their own agendas.

[Sacchetto Boutique]

And to Boutique, you are correct, the word alah does appear in the hebrew bible, I looked it up in my Hebrew dictionary and it means curse. It is used in the following verses:

Deut 29:20 & 21

"The LORD will never pardon such people. Instead his anger and jealousy will burn against them. All the curses written in this book will come down on them, and the LORD will erase their names from under heaven. The LORD will separate them from all the tribes of Israel, to pour out on them all the curses of the covenant recorded in this Book of Instruction."

Again your scholars are being deceitful.

And your level of intelligence combined with your superior understanding of everything pertaining to religion as well as your degree in islam, far superseds anything anyone has ever written on the subject.
I am tired...really really tired of explaining that IF A GROUP OF MUSLIMS KILL AND CLAIM ITS IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THEY ARE MISGUIDED!!! NOT EVERY 'so called' scholar teaches teh correct thing. I admire teh teachings of Mufti Menk and Sheikh Yusuf estes so if you show me videos of them saying to kill non-muslims, I will take your posts seriously!

Typing in caps doesnt help..you all ignore what I've written when I've explained countless times that islam does not promote violence..it is the choice few who have used the knowledge to do their own types of evil.

Djaggs, I really didnt know you were an expert in translation and history,...do u even know if ur books are authentic? but continue to spread hate against islam..carry...im fed up of the same points being brough up and i have to constantly explain the SAME things..its so annoying and today is happy friday man!! geeze!

What people are trying to tell you is that the "choice few" is not a few. It is many, many people who behave this way. You love your belief system and that is fine, but where does that love turn into blindness. There is a huge fundamental group of Islam that has emerged and will continue to grow. You have this view of Islam but ask yourself if your view will be accepted by the "choice few" who may see you as a corrupter of the teachings. You enjoy Islam the way you do because you are primarily governed by a constitution that allows you this freedom!! Constitutional rights that are not allowed in your belief system but governs this land, creating a realm of tolerance. You quoted 2 authorities of Islam that you respect, what they say makes you feel good when you hear them speak, but what about all the other learned Muslim scholars who you may not agree with, what makes them wrong? How can they be wrong when thousands of people follow it? The major problem people have with religion is this fundamentalism, how often do you hear followers of Islam who don't agree with the fundamentalist movement speak out against it? sorry but do they quietly agree with it by saying nothing? You associate with darul uloom, how often do they openly condemn the behavior of the "choice few" and try to re-image Islam? This silence say a thousand words!

I have personally thought about if I were living in an islamic state, how it would be. There are many points to consider...

If I were born and raised there, I think i'd be fine with everything as is except for the rules that are not based on hadith or that are too strictly enforced without consideration of technology such as cars instead of camels etc.

I am also aware that the 'western-way' of thinking does infact cause alot of un-necessary problems to those who wish to follow islam correctly. Its like those magazines that make young girls so aware of their physical appearance and place so much emphasis on what is considered appealing to the opposite sex. Leads to girls being overweight or having anorexia. The western world says a woman has a body, show it off!..that makes it tougher when muslims wana cover up so alot of muslim women are seen as oppressed.

[Sacchetto Boutique]

If anyone reads both the Bible and the Qu'ran, you will come away feeling that they are very similar in their beliefs. Especially comparing the Old Testament to the Suras in the Qu'ran which deal with reasons for killing people.

There is no doubt that Christianity which started as a persecuted religion became eventually a persecuting religion in the name of God. Just reference the Inquisition for example.

Today the same can be applied to Islam. It is a religion of peace but like the church many years ago, its message, today, has been distorted by Mullahs, Imams and others who each have their own agendas.

agreed

[Habit7]

The difference is the Bible doesnt teach what the Westboro Baptist Church practises, but condemns it.

Westboro's biggest fight is against gays and homosexuality.
They also say Catholics, Presbyterians and Anglicans are not really Christians or that they are "doing it wrong"
You supported those same points in this thread. Though you may not have been as vile in the commentary as Fred Phelps is.

Me??? I said in response to you:

It's like megadoc1 claiming earlier that Catholics were not really practicing Christianity.

Well I hope while being a Roman Catholic you learnt that the church differs from orthodox Christianity on the essentials of worshiping other gods through the veneration of Mary and the saints and disagreeing with salvation by grace through faith. Also there are other issues such as papal infallibly, indulgences, Mary being Christ co-redemptrix, purgatory and Vatican Council II condemning all Christians (those outside of RC) to be anathema (damned).

You can also find out more about a Roman Catholic monk called Martin Luther (not the civil rights leader) who in the 1500’s began to question the church based on its inconsistency with the Bible. It began a movement called the Reformation which rediscovered the truths of Christianity in Europe and eventually crippled the Roman Empire.

I never said anything about Presbyterians and Anglicans, in fact they are my beloved brothers in Christ. I have never fought against gays and homosexuality. I see it as a sinful lifestyle no different than heterosexual immorality and the most I can do is instruct them to repent and trust in Christ as much as I have.

The WBC is violates 2 Timothy 2:24 The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged among other things and there is nothing in the Bible supporting them picketing funerals and the other madness they do.

You are attempting false comparison, it can't stick, and you are not honestly representing my views

[Habit7]

You couldn't be more wrong.

If anyone reads both the Bible and the Qu'ran, you will come away feeling that they are very similar in their beliefs. Especially comparing the Old Testament to the Suras in the Qu'ran which deal with reasons for killing people.

The Canaan conquest was an effort to regain lost land. Subsequent to that there is was not effort global and religious domination as there is in the Quran.

There is no doubt that Christianity which started as a persecuted religion became eventually a persecuting religion in the name of God. Just reference the Inquisition for example.

There is nothing in Christianity that promotes persecution. Those who did that were not just "misguided" they were wrong.

Today the same can be applied to Islam. It is a religion of peace but like the church many years ago, its message, today, has been distorted by Mullahs, Imams and others who each have their own agendas.

Islam started in violence, continued many years afterwards, and many Muslims, not all (right Sachetto ) see no distinction from the violence of their origin, to the violence they have to respond with today.

[Sacchetto Boutique]

remember God of the bible and god of the quran are the same. There are violent verses in the bible as well as quran. It can be quite confusing to many why would God say one thing in the bible, then say something different in the quran. If I had to make a wise guess, id say, the bible may have been mis-interpreted and people strayed from the right path over time and so, God sent down another book to give correct accounts of what happened to all the previous prophets including Isa (as) and to perfect the way of life of his(God's) followers stating clearly that Muhammad saws is the last prophet there is even evidence within the bible that Muhammed would be sent such as

Isaiah 29:12 - And when they give the book to one who cannot read, saying, “Read this,” he says, “I cannot read.”

Deuteronomy 18:18 - I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.

Deuteronomy 18:15 - “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen—

[metalgear2095]

remember God of the bible and god of the quran are the same. There are violent verses in the bible as well as quran. It can be quite confusing to many why would God say one thing in the bible, then say something different in the quran. If I had to make a wise guess, id say, the bible may have been mis-interpreted and people strayed from the right path over time and so, God sent down another book to give correct accounts of what happened to all the previous prophets including Isa (as) and to perfect the way of life of his(God's) followers stating clearly that Muhammad saws is the last prophet there is even evidence within the bible that Muhammed would be sent such as

Isaiah 29:12 - And when they give the book to one who cannot read, saying, “Read this,” he says, “I cannot read.”

Deuteronomy 18:18 - I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.

Deuteronomy 18:15 - “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen—

So hundreds of years later God decides to rewrite the story. Makes sense:-|

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[Daran]

Similarily, I think the best schools in trini have the most rules..ever wondered about that?

which school has more rules than which?

Duane, I understand that! but why is it when a person hears the phrase muslim terrorist, they automatically assume ALL msulims are terrorists? bc from all the replies in this thread, i've read, "you people" refering to muslims...just read turbotursty's reply and you will see what im saying.

As for the rules..perhaps I said that wrong..all schools have rules, proable the same rules too, but not all schools ENFORCE the rules. I went to couva sec for 5yrs and then CAPS for 2yrs. When I compare the two schools, Couva Sec was way stricter in enforcing the rules. CAPS was a real party kinda school for the period I went there. My best friend was a convent girl who came into CAPS with 9destinctions but got low grades in CAPS at A'levels. The system was so different. In couva sec, when school was finished at 2:30 u had to find urself home bc if any teacher saw u outside in ur uniform, was real pressure. Now, 4:30 kids still in pos liming

This analogy with schools cannot work. By this measure North Korea should be the most successful nation in the world.

I went TML (which is one of the top performing primary schools), and trust me, the rules there were very relaxed compared to other many other schools. Reason being is that students there are often the offspring of well educated parents.

You complain about Islam being hard to follow. Therein lies the major problem I have with religion. Who says drinking, partying, sex is wrong? Why does God frown on people enjoying life whilst hurting no one. I'm not saying being an alcoholic of a whore is good, but those things in moderation and with caution and FINE.

I'm not here to bash you. You are, what I term a good Muslim, which is in fact rare. If the majority of Muslims were against terrorism, then hen Big Terror attacks happen, you'd see an outpouring of condemnation. What happens is that a handful of Islamic groups would condemn the attacks and those that do seem so insincere. The majority of Muslims I know (and i do know a lot) support their fellow terrorist Muslims. I can't count the number of times I've heard pharses like "Well that's what happens when the West aggravates them" or "They had their reasons" or and this one from an Iman on radio "Allah will still reward them because their intentions were good"

And that is why I state you are a rare breed, a shininh example that Islam can co-exist with the civilized world. Which probably will never happen.

You seem to be blind in many ways to the ills of Islam. Quiet frankly, the Quran is a pack of contradicting, chaotic nonsense that leaves way to much to interpretation. This gives rise to the "Islamic Scholars" who preach their own version.

So given that, why do you feel your interpretation entitles you to be 'right' and others wrong?

[Habit7]

remember God of the bible and god of the quran are the same. There are violent verses in the bible as well as quran. It can be quite confusing to many why would God say one thing in the bible, then say something different in the quran. If I had to make a wise guess, id say, the bible may have been mis-interpreted and people strayed from the right path over time and so, God sent down another book to give correct accounts of what happened to all the previous prophets including Isa (as) and to perfect the way of life of his(God's) followers stating clearly that Muhammad saws is the last prophet there is even evidence within the bible that Muhammed would be sent such as

Isaiah 29:12 - And when they give the book to one who cannot read, saying, “Read this,” he says, “I cannot read.”

Deuteronomy 18:18 - I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.

Deuteronomy 18:15 - “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen—

The God of the Bible and the Quran are not the same. For instance, the God of the Bible doesnt forgive sin on a whim, the God of the Bible requires sacrifice of animal to cover sin and eventually the eternal sacrifice of His Son to truly wash sin away, which makes Him just when He forgives sin. Allah however, forgives as he pleases whether or not justice is served.

Let me quote Isaiah 29:11-12 The entire vision will be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who is literate, saying, “Please read this,” he will say, “I cannot, for it is sealed.” Then the book will be given to the one who is illiterate, saying, “Please read this.” And he will say, “I cannot read.
Isaiah wasn't prophesying of some book from an illiterate guy, he was giving an analogy of how people would not understand his warning of judgement to come.

In Deuteronomy 18 clearly states that the prophet will come from among them, the Jews. Moses said "your brothers." Muhammad was not a Jew, there isn't even any evidence that he is a descendant of Ishmael. However in the Apostle Peter's sermon in Acts 3:22-26 he directly references the verses in Deuteronomy you posted being fulfilled in Christ.

Acts 3:22-26 “Moses said, ‘THE LORD GOD WILL RAISE UP FOR YOU A PROPHET LIKE ME FROM YOUR BRETHREN; TO HIM YOU SHALL GIVE HEED to everything He says to you. ‘And it will be that every soul that does not heed that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ “And likewise, all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and his successors onward, also announced these days. “It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘AND IN YOUR SEED ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH SHALL BE BLESSED.’ “For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways.” (the caps are direct quotes from the Old Testament)


It is really dishonest that Muslims try to ride on the credibility of Bible while when it contradicts their belief they claim that it was corrupted, while giving no evidence. If you want to quote the Torah and Isaiah to back up you claims, you have to be willing to fall on your knees to the claims of both books of the Messiah being found in Jesus and that He is God.

[rocknrolla]

on a lighter note.. just came across this on fb.. rofflll

[Sacchetto Boutique]

remember God of the bible and god of the quran are the same. There are violent verses in the bible as well as quran. It can be quite confusing to many why would God say one thing in the bible, then say something different in the quran. If I had to make a wise guess, id say, the bible may have been mis-interpreted and people strayed from the right path over time and so, God sent down another book to give correct accounts of what happened to all the previous prophets including Isa (as) and to perfect the way of life of his(God's) followers stating clearly that Muhammad saws is the last prophet there is even evidence within the bible that Muhammed would be sent such as

Isaiah 29:12 - And when they give the book to one who cannot read, saying, “Read this,” he says, “I cannot read.”

Deuteronomy 18:18 - I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.

Deuteronomy 18:15 - “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers—it is to him you shall listen—

So hundreds of years later God decides to rewrite the story. Makes sense:-|

Sent from my LG-P880 using TriniTuner mobile app

nah i dont think he re-wrote anything...as i said, maybe it was mis-interpretation, maybe people diverted from the path of god..i duno...but It has and always will be ONE God. Just like the word GOD is translated as ALLAH in the arabic version of the bible..ONE GOD..no manifestations, no image (as said in the 10 commandments), no kin...just one supreme creator of everyone & everything.

[Sacchetto Boutique]

its so confusing...how in some parts of teh bible they say "GOD" and then in other parts they say Jesus?

Rev.1

[1] The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants what must soon take place; and he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
[2] who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.

Plz explain...the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him?? shouldnt it be according to you if Jesus is really 'God' as u claim...

"the revelation of Jesus Christ which Jesus Christ gave him..."


i think much is lost in translation! from the original language, translated versions of the bible have words that are changed. For instance the use of the words "christ' and "messiah" now being used interchangeably

[Habit7]

Old Testament
Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me

Psalm 110:1 The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

New Testament
Matthew 22:41-44 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question: “What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?” They *said to Him, “The son of David.” He *said to them, “Then how does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying,

‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Until I put Your enemies beneath Your feet”’?

If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his son?”

John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

John 20:27-29 Then He *said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

The complete revelation of who God is in the Bible has always been one in essence, three in person. This is why Islam appears so wrong to us because even "Allah" after 600 years of Christianity seem to have misunderstood it, all-knowing god he is supposed to be. Christians believe God doesn't have a "kin", the term Father and Son speaks to the relationship they have with one another, not that God has a child. God has consistently been triune throughout the Bible and still being singular. Just saying God is one doesn't directly mean you are talking about the God of the Bible. You must belief in the God just as he said He is, which is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who is 3 in 1. The Father is God, Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God, three in person, one in essence.

[djaggs]

Messiah is Hebrew for anointed one

Christ is greek for anointed one