Petrotrin refinery shut down

[jhonnieblue]

From the energy landscape petrotrin could never be viable going forward. In any case it's a forced move by the bond holders as the govt can't afford that bullet payment. It's s forced hand to the action that has to be taken.
As for entitlement to jobs, yes Trinidadians do feel entitled but if this was a private multinational interested in similar position workers would be paid off and sent home without an afterthought. People need to realise one thing. The purpose of a company is to make money. Not as a favor to the public.
The forecast of energy prices world wide to a natural gas dominant world economy will leave petrotrin heavily vunerable to economic hardship.
At the end of the day it's the best move possible and Trinidadians need to realise we have to become a lot more competitive globally to stir economic growth. This stupid sense of entitlement needs to end.

[zoom rader]

Just as caroni was shut down because of non productivity so will Petrotrin . Workers will have to find ways to move on .
Caroni workers did ok after the shut down, some that I knew of migrated and got jobs abroad while other went into business.

I had explained months ago that it will be sold . Just as they did to BWIA , old staff was let go and had to re-apply for their job so the bad eggs had no chance of even getting a job.
With the method and trend in place they kill two birds with one stone, get rid of workers and unions.

Workers face a grim future and its gonna lead to migration. As it stands Government should not be running a business and they are heading in the right detection. Getting rid of government businesses will see a reduction in Jobs for the boys but at the same time workers will face underemployment and low wages.

Trinis need to think who moved their cheese

[Redress10]

From the energy landscape petrotrin could never be viable going forward. In any case it's a forced move by the bond holders as the govt can't afford that bullet payment. It's s forced hand to the action that has to be taken.
As for entitlement to jobs, yes Trinidadians do feel entitled but if this was a private multinational interested in similar position workers would be paid off and sent home without an afterthought. People need to realise one thing. The purpose of a company is to make money. Not as a favor to the public.
The forecast of energy prices world wide to a natural gas dominant world economy will leave petrotrin heavily vunerable to economic hardship.
At the end of the day it's the best move possible and Trinidadians need to realise we have to become a lot more competitive globally to stir economic growth. This stupid sense of entitlement needs to end.

Talk done.

man bold enough to say that he just take out a 25 year mortgage so what he go do now...Newsflash, you are an employee, you are a situation taker not a situation maker....Know your role.

They don't even have a clue how competitive this world getting. Imagine Petrotrin existing all these years and not one foreign company etc they acquired or merged with. So after all these years.....no expansion

[Redress10]

Just as caroni was shut down because of non productivity so will Petrotrin . Workers will have to find ways to move on .
Caroni workers did ok after the shut down, some that I knew of migrated and got jobs abroad while other went into business.

I had explained months ago that it will be sold . Just as they did to BWIA , old staff was let go and had to re-apply for their job so the bad eggs had no chance of even getting a job.
With the method and trend in place they kill two birds with one stone, get rid of workers and unions.

Workers face a grim future and its gonna lead to migration. As it stands Government should not be running a business and they are heading in the right detection. Getting rid of government businesses will see a reduction in Jobs for the boys but at the same time workers will face underemployment and low wages.

Trinis need to think who moved their cheese

What Caroni should have done was downsize and use those saving to invest in sugar in Guyana for cheap....By now they probably would have been players in the ethanol market.

Next up is CAl....trust meh...that coming...CAL doesn't know if it wants to be a budget airline or a luxurious airline.

Migrate and go where? What skills they have that the world wants? Trinis love comfort zones. You feel you going and ketch anyone of them on a rig 2 miles of the coast of russia in - whatever? Never. Plenty of them get that job through links and without the links probably wouldn't get their foot through the door of any reputable company. Some companies want 3-4 interviews with various panels before hiring employees.

That's the reality of life outside Tnt.

[nervewrecker]

Just as caroni was shut down because of non productivity so will Petrotrin . Workers will have to find ways to move on .
Caroni workers did ok after the shut down, some that I knew of migrated and got jobs abroad while other went into business.

I had explained months ago that it will be sold . Just as they did to BWIA , old staff was let go and had to re-apply for their job so the bad eggs had no chance of even getting a job.
With the method and trend in place they kill two birds with one stone, get rid of workers and unions.

Workers face a grim future and its gonna lead to migration. As it stands Government should not be running a business and they are heading in the right detection. Getting rid of government businesses will see a reduction in Jobs for the boys but at the same time workers will face underemployment and low wages.

Trinis need to think who moved their cheese

What Caroni should have done was downsize and use those saving to invest in sugar in Guyana for cheap....By now they probably would have been players in the ethanol market.

Next up is CAl....trust meh...that coming...CAL doesn't know if it wants to be a budget airline or a luxurious airline.

Migrate and go where? What skills they have that the world wants? Trinis love comfort zones. You feel you going and ketch anyone of them on a rig 2 miles of the coast of russia in - whatever? Never. Plenty of them get that job through links and without the links probably wouldn't get their foot through the door of any reputable company. Some companies want 3-4 interviews with various panels before hiring employees.

That's the reality of life outside Tnt.

Thats what you feel.

Imbert son works there, not happening.

[jhonnieblue]

CAL is a state owned company that is extremely inefficient and will face it's time. However next up has to be NGC. That's a pipeline company that is masquarading as a gas company. It's model is currently hurting the industry as they have proved very poor in upstream contract negotiations in getting best value for money as well as not allowing the downstream companies to be as competitive on an international scale due to the influx of shale prices in the market. The impact of LNG isn't as great and the use of our limited resources has to be evaluated.
Lots of hard decisions will be upcoming ranging from complete removal of all subsidies ( electric gas and water) to diversification of Energy mix. And as far as skills go, I can't see refinary workers being even closely competitive to international level workers. Yes migration is an option for some but the reality for a lot of others will be innovation in a stagnant industry.

[lalloboy101]

A petrotrin guy joined our engineering group, lasted 2 weeks and left. Had to go back and beg for his former job. Said he can't work this hard. Whoever leaves there will not be able to function in the real world

[screwbash]

if petrotrin close dong would it affect gasoline and the price of gasoline? the workers dey enjoyed big money for years so wah happens happens it is the man on the street that will suffer if gas and diesel price go up again.

[Joshie23]

From the energy landscape petrotrin could never be viable going forward. In any case it's a forced move by the bond holders as the govt can't afford that bullet payment. It's s forced hand to the action that has to be taken.
As for entitlement to jobs, yes Trinidadians do feel entitled but if this was a private multinational interested in similar position workers would be paid off and sent home without an afterthought. People need to realise one thing. The purpose of a company is to make money. Not as a favor to the public.
The forecast of energy prices world wide to a natural gas dominant world economy will leave petrotrin heavily vunerable to economic hardship.
At the end of the day it's the best move possible and Trinidadians need to realise we have to become a lot more competitive globally to stir economic growth. This stupid sense of entitlement needs to end.

Talk done.

man bold enough to say that he just take out a 25 year mortgage so what he go do now...Newsflash, you are an employee, you are a situation taker not a situation maker....Know your role.

They don't even have a clue how competitive this world getting. Imagine Petrotrin existing all these years and not one foreign company etc they acquired or merged with. So after all these years.....no expansion

See, that's the thing with hypothetical situations. Nowhere did I say I was the employee in question, I never said I was the one who just took out a mortgage and my child is well over 6 months old. I also never said that I think Petrotrin should remain the same. In fact, I was fortunate enough to view some of the various reports handed over by the consultancy firms and they were exciting to read and some of the suggestions would definitely propel the company in the right direction.

I agree 100% about our entitlement issue. I also agree that the unions have also failed to evolve because in other parts of the world (and yes I've been exposed to other parts of the world, no hypotheses there) unions are very effective in that they serve to protect worker's rights but they also don't coddle unproductive employees. The purpose for my contribution was to steer the conversation in a particular direction. What's exasperating is that I got all of your points, but it seems that you've missed most, if not all of mine, which is usually the case in discussions such as these, so as they say colloquially, 'take win'. Let's just rock back and see what unfolds over the next few hours, days and weeks.

[matr1x]

Food security was sabotaged by closing caroni. How else Syrians would make money?


Petrotrin was an attempt to see how much they could milk while keeping the voter base happy. Good riddance

[hydroep]

^Not only food. Over the years T&T developed a consumer culture and the 1% has its tentacles in almost every sector that feeds it: food, construction, consumer durables etc.

That's why businesses, institutions and Government can raise prices/fees/taxes and suffer little more than the typical Trini gum-bump — in the end they does just shut up and pay it because like a drug addict they hadda get their next fix...

[hydroep]

"Dey not talking to we."...

All the grin Roget used to grin, now he sounding like a jilted lover.

Roget: Brace for a failed Petrotrin
Seeta Persad 5 Hrs Ago

ON the busy streets of Point Fortin on Friday evening, leader of the Joint Trade Union Movement (JTUM) Ancel Roget joined union representatives to hand out flyers to the people of the borough. This was part of JTUM’s mobilisation drive to ask the working class to observe a day of rest and reflection on September 7.

On the issue of Government's move to restructure state-owned Petrotrin, Roget said that there was much speculation. “This Government is going about the business of re-structuring Petrotrin in the wrong way. They are not talking with the recognised majority union and that is the biggest mistake they are bullying and badgering their way in Petrotrin,” Roget said. JTUM, he said, has several plans to deal with the situation.

“If the Government does not approach the Petrotrin affair correctly, the nation should brace for a failed oil company,” he said, and claimed they were preparing to sell out the country's assets. And, he stated, the nation stands to lose by this move.

“It is not just a fight for the Petrotrin workers but it is a fight for the spin-off businesses in around the plants base in Point Fortin, Fyzabad and Santa Flora,” he said. All fence-line communities will be affected, he said, and felt Government was not seeing the more fundamental part of its responsibilities. That is, he said, to make sure the country's assets are managed efficiently and effectively, in the best interest of the people.

"The union has never been against restructuring but we, at the union level, have a plan, they do not have a plan. As we see, if they are taking the recommendations from their friends in the interest of their friends," Roget said.

Today JTUM plans to assemble members and their families outside the official residence of the Prime Minister in St Ann's to pray for TT, for the people affected by crime and bad governance, including at Petrotrin.

Yesterday, Pointe-a-Pierre MP David Lee replied to Petrotrin chairman Wilfred Espinet's statement on Friday that the company continued to operate normally and there had been no change to its routine, amid social media speculation that the army had been called in to manage its installations, and there would be a strike.

Lee said he was not surprised and advised Espinet "where there is smoke there is fire" and Petrotrin workers's concerns were real.

“In these hard economic times, workers are in fear of losing their jobs. The Government needs to address this issue of Petrotrin and bring some sort of clarification through the Energy Committee in Parliament."

Lee said Espinet should be called before the committee to explain Petrotrin's position, adding he continued to receive reports from workers.

"I have gotten reports from workers that the army is inside the Petrotrin area protecting the refinery area and the bond.”

Petrotrin, he said, does not belong to Government but taxpayers.

“There is anxiety among his constituents who are employed with Petrotrin as regards to the loss of jobs,” Lee said.

Espinet yesterday said the company issued a release on Friday and nothing has changed.

https://newsday.co.tt/2018/08/26/roget- ... petrotrin/

[akrobins]

Stop spreading fake news. The post is completely bogus.


Sent from my SM-J500M using TriniTuner mobile app

[Redman]

All this and they still going ahead to fix the ULSD plant to a tune of 1.2b.

the rationale put forward is that If they dont have the ULSD..the diesel output of the refinery will not meet export requirements.

[Redman]

GORTT can remain the OWNER of the assets while they privatize the management of these assets-and by extension the performance of the operation.

This is easily done-and you can split the profits/dividends in any way agreed to.

I would give OWTU some equity and some blocks-let them demonstrate their expertise for their own benefit packages to support the reductions in workforce,

If Argentina can raise a 100 year bond-GORTT and Petrotrin can raise the money to restructure....quarantine some equity perhaps?

5000 BOPD at $60 USD per barrel is 109M USD per year.

Local production costs the country about50% of WTI.......so it isnt impossible to create the fiscal space to deal with the debt.

IF we mobilize the right people and assets in the right manner.

[Joshie23]

Stop spreading fake news. The post is completely bogus.


Sent from my SM-J500M using TriniTuner mobile app

DISCLAIMER: I'm not trying to fight you. I realise men are getting overly emotional on this post.

But pray tell, which part is bogus? Because I'm in conversation with some people in Petrotrin and some of the information circulating is very real..which part is fake?

[Joshie23]

GORTT can remain the OWNER of the assets while they privatize the management of these assets-and by extension the performance of the operation.

This is easily done-and you can split the profits/dividends in any way agreed to.

I would give OWTU some equity and some blocks-let them demonstrate their expertise for their own benefit packages to support the reductions in workforce,

If Argentina can raise a 100 year bond-GORTT and Petrotrin can raise the money to restructure....quarantine some equity perhaps?

5000 BOPD at $60 USD per barrel is 109M USD per year.

Local production costs the country about50% of WTI.......so it isnt impossible to create the fiscal space to deal with the debt.

IF we mobilize the right people and assets in the right manner.

Some feasible points, Redman.

[sMASH]

Ent they buy out the TAP a short while ago?

[Redman]

63 billion in profit u say?

This is why they have a block on personal devices and systems within the company, to keep documents from going public. Check how many barrels of oil are processed every day. How much are the products worth per day. Ho find out.

You very special pjfred.

63billion in profit... or about 10Billion USD...IN PROFIT

That is Revenue-Expenses=63,000,000,000

You saying that Petrotrin Revenue is large enough to pay for 100,000 BOPD of imported oil(2.2B USD per year at $60 WTI) and STILL generate 10 Billion in profit.

A back of the envelope estimate of Refinery sales says the sell about 5.2 Billion USD per year locally and internationally.
(2018 Consolidated report is up to June 2018...so I just doubled Jan to June 2018)

So you are stating that the Petrotrin is generating 10 Billion USD in profit on refinery sales of 5.2 Billion while paying 2.2B to import 60% of their feedstock.

If that was the case Petrotrin is the best run refinery in the solar system...in fact it better than any business evarrrr....generating 200% of revenue in profit.

[pjfred]

Refining and marketing figures are astronomical, hard yo believe but very true. Go back to the pie chart published 4 years ago in the express by kelvin ramnarine. Oil product sales then and even today account for largest portion of budget allocations income. This is what they spend. Have you never heard the slang that we are an oil country.

[neilsingh100]

Petrotrin has been on life support for the last couple of years. Time to pull the plug and move on.

[sMASH]

The plug going to get pull, but plug back in 1% group of companies.

[sinister_14]

Questions over Govt’s new energy company

Questions are being raised about the role of a new energy company—Trinidad and Tobago Upstream/Downstream Energy Company—in the pending reorganisation and restructuring of state-owned Petrotrin.

The new company, registered back in March, lists the directors as the Permanent Secretary in the Minister of Finance Vishnu Dhanpaul and the acting Permanent Secretary in the same ministry.

Dhanpaul, in response to an email, directed all questions to the Minister of Energy Franklin Khan.

Dhanpaul did not respond to subsequent questions about why he was listed as a director of an energy company even though he is employed by the Ministry of Finance.

These concerns are now compounded by statements made by Prime Minister Dr Keith Rowley after the historic signing of the Dragon Gas Deal in Caracas yesterday. Rowley and a contingent was in Venezuela to meet with President Nicolas Maduro at the Mira Flores Palace in Caracas when he was asked by reporters about Tuesday’s meeting between Petrotrin and the OWTU.

“Within the next few days, the Board of Directors at Petrotrin will meet the OWTU to discuss the restructuring of the company. The meeting will take place shortly after which the company will be in a position to tell the country what it intends to do to restructure Petrotrin,” he said.

While on the way back from Caracas, Rowley spoke with reporters on the plane and said that Petrotrin could not continue the way it was going. He highlighted the fact that there are currently four rigs drilling for oil and none of them are in Petrotrin’s acreages.

“Petrotrin is the only oil company that I know of that has developed a policy of being in the oil business and not looking for oil,” Rowley said.

Suspicion rising

The Prime Minister’s harsh criticism of the state company is not new. At the beginning of the year, Rowley gave a cryptic overview of the operations at Petrotrin and promised then to fix the problems “once and for all”. Soon after Rowley’s statements, the cash-strapped Petrotrin engaged in a series of talks with the OWTU and external advisers to carve out a successful way forward for the company.

It is understood that a significant downsizing of the state company is on the table and suspicion is rising that this new company is established to take up the excess work but not the workers.

It is also unclear if any of Petrotrin’s assets have already been divested into the new company. Back in June, when Khan first mentioned the new company, he said that it was the Government’s intention that “selected energy assets of the State be held by” the Trinidad and Tobago Upstream/Downstream Energy Company.

On Thursday, the National Gas Company’s (NGC) Corporate Communications Manager Lisa Burkett was contacted about NGC’s own investment into the new company. Burkett would only refer to what Khan said back in June.

“What was published in the newspapers as announced by the Minister of Energy is all that NGC can say at this point in time,” she said in response to emailed questions.

When pressed further about the status of NGC’s upstream investment in Mitsubishi’s methanol plant under construction at La Brea, Burkett said that NGC would continue “to focus on its growth and sustainability portfolio until advised otherwise from its shareholder”.

These new questions about the energy company comes at a time of increased tension between the OWTU and Government as the union plans to protest outside the Prime Minister’s official residence in Cascade today.

Espinet: I do not know anything about that company

Petrotrin chairman Wilfred Espinet yesterday dismissed any questions that the new company was registered to replace Petrotrin.

“I do not know anything about that company. It has nothing to do with anything I have to do,” Espinet said.

“The Petrotrin board knows nothing of it other than what has already been in the press.”

Though Espinet is keeping his cards close to his chest until after Tuesday’s meeting, the Sunday Guardian has been informed that the downsizing of the company is on the table.

“I will not discuss the reorganisation of Petrotrin until after Tuesday,” Espinet said.

Despite the lack of answers, the Sunday Guardian has learned that job packages have already been prepared at the new energy company.

Back in June, the Minister of Energy issued a statement in which it mentioned the new company, describing it then as a “newly incorporated state-owned energy company”.

He said then that Cabinet approved a Gas Sales Contract, executed on behalf of the Government by Trinidad and Tobago Upstream/Downstream Energy Operations Company Limited.

Khan had detailed the successive failures to get the World Gas To Liquids off the ground until a 2016 Sales Purchase Agreement with NiQuan Energy.

Khan said a review of the project showed financial benefits to the Government and state-owned Petrotrin, as well as the creation of jobs in the long and short term.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2018-08- ... gy-company

[hydroep]

^Interesting article, hopefully we'll get more info. after Tuesday.

Also, just made a gas run and haven't noticed any signs of panic, just normal Sunday traffic.

[The_Honourable]

Stop spreading fake news. The post is completely bogus.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not trying to fight you. I realise men are getting overly emotional on this post.

But pray tell, which part is bogus? Because I'm in conversation with some people in Petrotrin and some of the information circulating is very real..which part is fake?

We have the man jittery. You know what it is that you can't go Krave anymore and stunt with red woman?

[Joshie23]

Questions over Govt’s new energy company
Questions are being raised about the role of a new energy company—Trinidad and Tobago Upstream/Downstream Energy Company—in the pending reorganisation and restructuring of state-owned Petrotrin.

The new company, registered back in March, lists the directors as the Permanent Secretary in the Minister of Finance Vishnu Dhanpaul and the acting Permanent Secretary in the same ministry.

Dhanpaul, in response to an email, directed all questions to the Minister of Energy Franklin Khan.

Dhanpaul did not respond to subsequent questions about why he was listed as a director of an energy company even though he is employed by the Ministry of Finance.

Fun fact - Even though the Minister of Energy is the Line Minister for Petrotrin and other energy companies, Petrotrin in itself, falls under the direct purview of.............

imbert_3.png (278.35 KiB) Viewed 3960 times

...this guy. Hope that clears up the part in red.

[Dizzy28]

The Minister of Finance is the Corporate Sole for every state enterprise. Doesn't matter under whose line Ministry the company\agency falls. Nothing new about or strange about that.

[rspann]

Was a chartered plane necessary to carry journalists etal to sign the deal? Or was it a wine and dine event?

[tr1ad]

https://www.facebook.com/OPMTT/videos/866602926868142/


Homeboy eh making it sound too nice ...


But; the restructure is necessary

I believe it'll be just like the current BP restructure - business as normal, everyone reapply for positions and then they provide packages for those that didn't make the cut; in the end totally new structure to continue.

[Joshie23]

The Minister of Finance is the Corporate Sole for every state enterprise. Doesn't matter under whose line Ministry the company\agency falls. Nothing new about or strange about that.

Well Renuka Singh, the author of the article felt the need to ask, so apparently it was a little strange for some. I was just connecting some dots, I guess.