The Religion Discussion

[Slartibartfast]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Roman catholics around the longest? Does that mean that at some point in time some one realised/thought/believed that Catholics had it wrong and broke away to create Christians?

[meccalli]

Who were the Roman gods before Christ? They never dropped their old system and beliefs, they just incorporated new names. Always had the queen of heaven- the madonna(mary) and child(baby jesus lol) and always mr.sun god father.

[bluesclues]

...what one source could hold so much power to overtake the Globe?

Greed

greed is one of the major sins advised that should be resisted as a temptation of the flesh in all religions. and advocates sharing with the less fortunate with the use of the tools compassion and empathy. now tell me again who's fault is it for greed destroying the peace in all societies?

[bluesclues]

Man gets the wisdom to interpret the Bible from God. I can attest to this fact. Anyone will be able to attest to it also if they want to find out for themselves. The meanings/teachings of the Bible doesn't change.

I literally cannot argue with that. Just want to know, which version of the bible is correct and why does God tell everyone something different?

because he instructs certain things to fulfill a purpose. when the purpose is fulfilled he changes the instruction. but some refuse to change. so he says to them.. ok u stay right there. i will take these people who are listening to me and guide them. and instructs the ones who dont listen to commit to their ways.

e.g today there are few animals in the world so to allow them to populate God says dont eat meat. and dont question his wisdom. but we too stupid to figure out that is the reason. when the animals have properly populated he says.. u have obeyed me, u can eat meat now. and freedom is retained. same for sex. man is allowed to have many mates and have sex like if it going out of style during a time of populating the earth. when the earth reaches a threshold he says ok now u must have only one wife and resist the temptation to lust(sex without purpose). wisdom is in seeing why the rules change, and why they were so in the first place.

[Habit7]

Who were the Roman gods before Christ? They never dropped their old system and beliefs, they just incorporated new names. Always had the queen of heaven- the madonna(mary) and child(baby jesus lol) and always mr.sun god father.

The Romans control Judea where a man proclaim to be God was brought to them on trumped up charges who they crucified like thousands of others. However out of this minuscule action a following of Jews and later Gentiles worshipped him as God. This was an offense to the monotheist Jews and the polytheist Gentile Greco-Romans. These Christians were persecuted from all sides but grew in number, until the Roman Emperor Constantine decided not only to legalize Christianity but adopted it as the state religion. However like most state churches they face either having to please God in His word or the government. The Roman Church was pleasing government more and found itself eventually as individual entity which it's addition teachings through the Pope and church traditions.

That's the history of the Roman Catholic church in a nutshell.

[Slartibartfast]

because he instructs certain things to fulfill a purpose. when the purpose is fulfilled he changes the instruction. but some refuse to change. so he says to them.. ok u stay right there. i will take these people who are listening to me and guide them. and instructs the ones who dont listen to commit to their ways.

e.g today there are few animals in the world so to allow them to populate God says dont eat meat. and dont question his wisdom. but we too stupid to figure out that is the reason. when the animals have properly populated he says.. u have obeyed me, u can eat meat now. and freedom is retained. same for sex. man is allowed to have many mates and have sex like if it going out of style during a time of populating the earth. when the earth reaches a threshold he says ok now u must have only one wife and resist the temptation to lust(sex without purpose). wisdom is in seeing why the rules change, and why they were so in the first place.

Again, no arguments here because this is way out of my area of expertise (i.e. excessive googling)

1) Where do you get your information from? Does it include a different interpretation of the bible as different instruction?

2) Does that mean God made some people gay because gays can't have children. In fact, some gay couples adopt. This means that they actually have a positive impact on the number of children not growing up in loving homes.

[Habit7]

1) could you clarify that
2) Man is currently a fallen creature through the fall of the first man Adam. That falleness exhibits itself in many ways whether greed, lust, lies, homosexuality, gossip, envy, etc. I can't say why some are predisposed to homosexuality but like all us we are guilt before God. No good can we do to cover our bad, only Christ's (the second Adam) righteousness applied to one's life can save them, whether gay or straight.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Sometimes ppl like to think that today we are having a sexual revolution, but the sexuality of Greco-Roman time would make us look like prudes. Nevertheless former homosexuals were part of the early church and despite the great emphasis of evil society puts on it today, God can transform a homosexual just as much as a liar.

[Slartibartfast]

By "information" I meant everything bluesclues said in the first paragraph.

I'll read the rest of your reply later when I get a chance to go through it, but you can still reply that first point nd i'll read them both one time.

[bluesclues]

because he instructs certain things to fulfill a purpose. when the purpose is fulfilled he changes the instruction. but some refuse to change. so he says to them.. ok u stay right there. i will take these people who are listening to me and guide them. and instructs the ones who dont listen to commit to their ways.

e.g today there are few animals in the world so to allow them to populate God says dont eat meat. and dont question his wisdom. but we too stupid to figure out that is the reason. when the animals have properly populated he says.. u have obeyed me, u can eat meat now. and freedom is retained. same for sex. man is allowed to have many mates and have sex like if it going out of style during a time of populating the earth. when the earth reaches a threshold he says ok now u must have only one wife and resist the temptation to lust(sex without purpose). wisdom is in seeing why the rules change, and why they were so in the first place.

Again, no arguments here because this is way out of my area of expertise (i.e. excessive googling)

1) Where do you get your information from? Does it include a different interpretation of the bible as different instruction?

2) Does that mean God made some people gay because gays can't have children. In fact, some gay couples adopt. This means that they actually have a positive impact on the number of children not growing up in loving homes.

i havent deviated from the bible's teachings of history of man yet. which is corroborated by archaeology regarding the fact that the men actually lived.

homosexuality is a brain devlopment issue. everyone is born with strengths and weaknesses mentally/spiritually. just like some are born with little empathy and are out of balance. some are born with little attraction to what should be their mate should they endeavour to live in harmony with nature. the truth is it is mental spiritual rather than being bodily. the mental instructs the body what to partake in and what is not advisable based on the level of mental development in that area.

translating.
it is ok to be a christian gay as long as you acknowledge the truth of duality of existence and that we are 'supposed to' form a union with our opposite sex. since no true physical union can occur through 2 sames. a key opens a lock. and so a male opens a female and this is consumated with the birth of a child'productivity'. thus homosexuality can be rightly said to be unproductive behaviour. the problem is that because of the homosexual brain chemistry they will have trouble discerning the true nature of existence which is duality forming out of oneness through the union of opposites. so they just like those who lack empathy, need to trust the instruction and aspire and pray to God for assistance in defeating unproductive behaviour or behaviour which otherwise stagnates their spiritual development.

in short, a gay christian can be saved by God. through his struggle to defeat unproductive behaviour to align with more productive ones his brain would be enlightened to recognize the wrongness of gay interaction as it pertains to the spiritual aspect of his life. there is no ban on the union of hearts of 2 gay ppl. but the buck stops at the physical as none can occur there.

in every aspect of life, science, agriculture u name it. there is the theme of balance formed through 2 opposites forming union to reach 'completion'. the loops for any working invention is closed by 'balancing off' interacting aspects. when the loops isnt closed we create destructive technologies.

in chemistry an atom with 3 positive charges, can only unify with atoms that have 3 negative charges or otherwise molecules that add up to the missing negative charges. so it can also be 3 of an atome with 1 negative charge. this balances off the equation and so a new molecule is formed. neither one nor the other, yet both at the same time.

clean energy vs unclean energy
motorcars burn fossil fuels. but the loop is not closed because once the fuel is burned, science has no way of returning the fuel to its natural form from the burnt carbon. this goes into the atmosphere and as all of this chemical existence operates seeks to spread out and balance itself with the environment. like putting a lump of salt in water, the salt will eventually spread out through the water till it is fully equally distributed among the molecules of water.. finding balance as a 'solution'. it seeks equillibrium! eventually the carbon concentration in the atmosphere can become much higher than can be considered clean air. and so it affects our breathing processes and over time and generations we too and all living things that breathe air will be forced by the power of nature to adapt to the new breathing conditions while others who cannot adapt will not survive.

if we were to create clean energy, which is how nature does it. wed be able to burn energy to do work without losing the original input. a recyclable resource. this is interactive balance. productive. non gay/self serving. balance. within us are massive amounts of energy. we eat digest food and our waste is appreaciated by the trees who then can grow fruit to feed us again. circular autonomy. which can only be created through 2 opposites interacting. the push and the pull. it could not happen with pull only serving self. nor push only serving self. pull has to serve push and push then has to return the favour.

[Slartibartfast]

Sometimes ppl like to think that today we are having a sexual revolution, but the sexuality of Greco-Roman time would make us look like prudes.

Just quoted this cuz it speaks the truth.

The rest of your answer was pretty much what I was taught back when I was in church. I was just curious to what you thoughts were.

...eventually the carbon concentration in the atmosphere can become much higher than can be considered clean air. and so it affects our breathing processes and over time and generations we too and all living things that breathe air will be forced by the power of nature to adapt to the new breathing conditions while others who cannot adapt will not survive....

Did you just say we would evolve to breath in the carbon enriched air?

...the push and the pull. it could not happen with pull only serving self. nor push only serving self. pull has to serve push and push then has to return the favour.

I'm pretty sure you just described gay sex.

Anyway, all jokes aside, as long as whatever version of the book you follow is not used to impose on anyone else and it makes you a better person then I'm cool with it. Personally I rather deduce my morality for myself. It works for me just like what you do works for you. I will just leave you with these two quotes to think about (you guys probably fed up hearing these already).

"Is God is willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God"
- Epicurus

"Live a Good life.

If here are Gods and they are just,
then they will not care how devout you have been,
but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by.

If there are God, but unjust,
then you should not want to worship them.

If there are no Gods,
Then you will be gone,
but will have lived noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones"
- Marcus Aurelius

[bluesclues]

when i need to fix my car.. i go to a mechanic. if i need to build a house id take the direction of an architect and hire builders. if i want spiritual advice i prefer to take the services of experts on God. not noobs who are making wild statements guessing negatively in ignorance because they lack the required faculty.

i agree with you though. you can lead a horse to water...

[Dizzy28]

when i need to fix my car.. i go to a mechanic. if i need to build a house id take the direction of an architect and hire builders. if i want spiritual advice i prefer to take the services of experts on God. not noobs who are making wild statements guessing negatively in ignorance because they lack the required faculty.

i agree with you though. you can lead a horse to water...

How did these "experts" become experts?? Fellow "experts" certified them?

[RBphoto]

Every time you see a rainbow, it is God having gay sex.

[ruffneck_12]

God doh exist

HAIL SATAN

[bluesclues]

when i need to fix my car.. i go to a mechanic. if i need to build a house id take the direction of an architect and hire builders. if i want spiritual advice i prefer to take the services of experts on God. not noobs who are making wild statements guessing negatively in ignorance because they lack the required faculty.

i agree with you though. you can lead a horse to water...

How did these "experts" become experts?? Fellow "experts" certified them?

the inventors taught them through teaching and documentation. where did the inventors learn it from?

[Dizzy28]

Why yes...please do tell where did the inventors learn it from?

[bluefete]

Well what about this.

About 10 years ago when I was an aspiring theologian, it was taught that only through faith can someone get into heaven, no through deeds, lest any man shall boast (don't remember the exact wording). I was taught that atheists, regardless of how good they were would eventually go to hell, especially those that knew the word of God and turned away from it. (Who taught you this? It sounds like a false doctrine to me.

Now, few month ago, Pope Francis (awesome guy IMO btw) went ahead and said that atheists that do good will go to heaven. I linked both religious and secular sites.

http://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/story.php?id=51077
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-assures-atheists-you-dont-have-to-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven-8810062.html

So is Pope Francis correct, and everyone to ever teach the opposite wrong, or is everyone else wrong and the Pope correct. Or are they both somehow correct even though they say the opposite thing?

First of all the Catholic Church goes on their tradition not necessarily on God's word. This can be seen in many of their teachings. And many of their traditions go against the Bible's teachings.

I always tell people to read their religious books for themselves and do not depend on anyone to give them an interpretation.

I shudder to think what the world would be like today if Christians followed the tenets outlined in the Old Testament to the letter.

Jesus Christ came to change the philosophy of how we lived. That made him deeply unpopular with the rulers of his time. His doctrine of love and forgiveness was at odds with the interpretations of the rulers of his day.

[sMASH]

I did not come to change the law but to fulfil it
Not by my will
Why do you call me good
Th father is greater than I
Let this cup pass from me
Eating fish and honeycombs... Then excreting fish and honeycombs

[Slartibartfast]

I don't remember when I was first taught that all atheists go to hell but it was most likely while I was still very young; like around 6 or 7. However, I remember that message being reinforced frequently over the years in sermons and youth church group meetings.

...so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

We were basically taught that through God's mercy the gift of salvation was made available to us all but the only way to attain this gift is through faith. The importance of good deeds was also stressed in other lessons but we were taught that an unwavering faith was paramount.

[rabiesebola]

who ever does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ have some serious issues....no monkey statue could help yuh out....THREAD CLOSED

[Dizzy28]

^ All because a Hindu man take yuh gyul!!!

[Altec55]

Slartibartfast, are you no longer a believer? If not, can I ask what made you change?

[Chimera]

who ever does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ have some serious issues....no monkey statue could help yuh out....THREAD CLOSED

sorry but you realize he couldn't stop himself from being nailed to a piece of wood by a few guards?

monkeyman does lift mountains and save villages and all kinda cool sheit

[Habit7]

Slartibartfast, are you no longer a believer? If not, can I ask what made you change?

Who said he was a believer in the first place?

[Slartibartfast]

I was born and raised in the catholic church for the first 20 years of my life. My parent were both very strong in their faith and I was just as strong in mine until I started questioning it (mass every weekend and living out my faith every weekday like a proper catholic should). Then my faith fell apart and I realised I was a better person without it (more tolerant and generally more happy and fulfilled on a regular basis).

I tried writing out the story behind it, but that would be a few pages long.

Long story short, I lost my faith when I started studying it and expecting it to make sense. Some have said my faith was weak to begin with because I was trying to "see" in order to believe.

[Habit7]

We'll I hope you understand the distinction between Roman Catholism and Christianity. Furthermore even if you conclude that RC is wrong, it doesn't equate or give any further strength to the conclusion that God doesn't exist.

[Altec55]

ohh ok, i understand. i have a very good friend who was studying to be a catholic priest, however he no longer follows catholicism and now follows Jesus and attends a Bible based church.

[Slartibartfast]

Yeah my faith in RC was the first to go but after a while I realised the concept of God just does not make sense and I am not satisfied with the answer that it's "one of his mysteries that we will never know".

I also find faith in a God too limiting and the bible too open in interpretation. I also find it best to fully internalise why I do everything that I do. To me this self awareness is extremely important. I am not satisfied with my only reason for doing something be "because this book said so"

[bluesclues]

Why yes...please do tell where did the inventors learn it from?

from their own work and from observing nature. hence, dont be so quick to discredit the work of ancients who may have 'invented' God. it may well be that they discovered God and are thus the foremost experts on a subject that very rarely provides to onlookers something they can observe as evidence.

[Dizzy28]

But the ancients of the Persian empire observed nature and came up with the concept of God called Ahura Mazda. Hence came about Zoroastrianism. Are these ancients right?

The ancient Aryans through their own work and observation came up with the precursor to modern Hinduism by documenting their knowledge in the four Vedas.

Both of the above examples happened at least 2,000 years BC. Are these ancients wrong or right?